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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 13, 2018 7:42:20 GMT
Are we getting to/ at the stage whereby we can't say what we think. Who decides what's allowed?
I do have trouble with this. We can't go round saying what we want , if it is genuinely offensive, or could incite violence. Perhaps some extremist groups or thinking needs ' nipping in the bud' I don't know and who decides what is extreme, who is allowed to talk. If it is down to violence or discriminate use of power we will have problems as a society.
On the other hand we must be allowed to DISCUSS anything in my opinion. ( DV8 are an excellent theatre company and have drawn attention to the difficult in the past of talking about Islam, without being accused of racism...,using verbatim sources). . )
What's the answer?
We've had the implications of Satanic Verses, we've had the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, but just recently three events have occurred that may suggest that we are moving towards a subtle police state.
Doesn't seem right to me to offer entertainment about the death of an existing person, in this way
These two were detained, simply wanting to interview Tommy Robinson......love him or hate him ( his past), he did draw attention to grooming gangs before most caught up. Also when challenged , people don't seem to produce evidence of his racism
I can't agree with masked assailants using violence in these circumstances. Whatever your politics Rees Mogg is not violent ( although there is the pen mightier than the sword argument)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 8:03:26 GMT
Are we getting to/ at the stage whereby we can't say what we think. Who decides what's allowed? I do have trouble with this. We can't go round saying what we want , if it is genuinely offensive, or could incite violence. Perhaps some extremist groups or thinking needs ' nipping in the bud' I don't know and who decides what is extreme, who is allowed to talk. If it is down to violence or discriminate use of power we will have problems as a society. On the other hand we must be allowed to DISCUSS anything in my opinion. ( DV8 are an excellent theatre company and have drawn attention to the difficult in the past of talking about Islam, without being accused of racism...,using verbatim sources. . ) What's the answer? We've had the implications of Satanic Verses, we've had the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, but just recently three events have occurred that may suggest that we are moving towards a subtle police state. These two were detained, simply wanting to interview Tommy Robinson......love him or hate him ( his past), he did draw attention to grooming gangs before most caught up. Also when challenged , people don't seem to produce evidence of holiday racism I can't agree with masked assailants using violence in these circumstances. Whatever your politics Rees Mogg is not violent ( although there is the pen mightier than the sword argument) I actually get really wound up just thinking about it John To the point I can’t say what I really want to say I sometimes think it’s best just to go along with it all or it makes you ill. World is so fucking plastic ....all reality has gone through the window
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 13, 2018 8:09:26 GMT
Are we getting to/ at the stage whereby we can't say what we think. Who decides what's allowed? I do have trouble with this. We can't go round saying what we want , if it is genuinely offensive, or could incite violence. Perhaps some extremist groups or thinking needs ' nipping in the bud' I don't know and who decides what is extreme, who is allowed to talk. If it is down to violence or discriminate use of power we will have problems as a society. On the other hand we must be allowed to DISCUSS anything in my opinion. ( DV8 are an excellent theatre company and have drawn attention to the difficult in the past of talking about Islam, without being accused of racism...,using verbatim sources. . ) What's the answer? We've had the implications of Satanic Verses, we've had the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, but just recently three events have occurred that may suggest that we are moving towards a subtle police state. These two were detained, simply wanting to interview Tommy Robinson......love him or hate him ( his past), he did draw attention to grooming gangs before most caught up. Also when challenged , people don't seem to produce evidence of holiday racism I can't agree with masked assailants using violence in these circumstances. Whatever your politics Rees Mogg is not violent ( although there is the pen mightier than the sword argument) I actually get really wound up just thinking about it John To the point I can’t say what I really want to say I sometimes think it’s best just to go along with it all or it makes you ill. World is so fucking plastic ....all reality has gone through the window I agree...that DV8 stuff above is good and there are a few young people getting into alternative, physical ' postmodern ( ! !!) theatre.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 8:42:34 GMT
I actually get really wound up just thinking about it John To the point I can’t say what I really want to say I sometimes think it’s best just to go along with it all or it makes you ill. World is so fucking plastic ....all reality has gone through the window I agree...that DV8 stuff above is good and there are a few young people getting into alternative, physical ' pat modern ( ! !!) theatre. I’ll have a look tonight
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 13, 2018 8:47:25 GMT
I agree...that DV8 stuff above is good and there are a few young people getting into alternative, physical ' pat modern ( ! !!) theatre. I’ll have a look tonight There is more of it on the internet. Basically the writer Newsom put together ' Can we talk about this' in reaction to not being able to speak about issues to do with Islam. The end lines of text second clip are pertinent " I don't want to be killed, I want to be free, I need to learn to shut up".The main point is that they use real events and actual words.Theyve done similar stuff eg ' John' about a working class gay lad
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Post by Dutchpeter on Mar 13, 2018 10:25:41 GMT
Part of our democratic creed was the phrase “I may not like what you say, but I’ll defend your right to say it”. Seems like we’re moving away from that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 11:32:05 GMT
I am always bemused somewhat why we can't talk about some big issues, issues that impact all of us, but we are more than happy to discuss last night's judge vote on Strictly...Yet we have, dare I say, an enemy within, an enemy that are hell bent on destroying us...But hey....Just keep brushing it under the carpet...However that carpet will soon resemble a rather large hump.
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Post by yeokel on Mar 13, 2018 12:03:38 GMT
I am always bemused somewhat why we can't talk about some big issues, issues that impact all of us, but we are more than happy to discuss last night's judge vote on Strictly...Yet we have, dare I say, an enemy within, an enemy that are hell bent on destroying us...But hey....Just keep brushing it under the carpet...However that carpet will soon resemble a rather large hump. That'll be the elephant in the room.
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Post by starkiller on Mar 13, 2018 13:31:07 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 13, 2018 13:51:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 11:59:25 GMT
The only thing that surprises me in this country is that we are not at the stage of a book burning night.
You have to think abut every word you say, or type as to who you might upset. So many groups of snowflakes that are just looking for a word to complain about that makes them a victim.
Well to you people I say try having a stupid last name, a fat gut, bald head, no teeth and a little dick then see if you think you are an abused minority.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 14, 2018 12:39:49 GMT
Perhaps we are more concerned to control thoughts and free speech , than actually protecting our citizen. Both might be necessary, but it does beg the question of who is in control of “free speech” , and if one is considered more important than the other. Snippets from the link below; On March 1, The European Commission -- the unelected executive branch of the European Union -- told social media companies to remove illegal online terrorist content within an hour, or risk facing EU-wide legislation on the topic. The ultimatum was part of a new set of recommendations that will apply to all forms of "illegal content" online, "from terrorist content, incitement to hatred and violence, child sexual abuse material, counterfeit products and copyright infringement." There appears to be a huge disconnect here between the EU's professed concern for keeping Europeans safe -- as expressed in the one hour rule -- and the EU's actual refusal to keep Europeans safe in the offline world. The result is that Europeans, manipulated by an untransparent, unaccountable body, will not be kept safe either online or off. Only a few months ago, EU's Commissioner for Migration, Home Affairs and Citizenship, Dimitris Avramopoulos wrote, "We cannot and will never be able to stop migration... At the end of the day, we all need to be ready to accept migration, mobility and diversity as the new norm and tailor our policies accordingly". The enormous influx of migrants into the EU, especially since 2015, is closely linked to the spike in terrorism, as well as the current and future Islamization of the continent. ISIS terrorists have returned to Europe or entered the continent disguised as migrants, and several have perpetrated terror attacks. According to Gilles de Kerchove, EU Counterterrorism Coordinator, there are now more than 50,000 jihadists living in Europe. Regardless of these facts, including that women can no longer exercise their freedom to walk in safety in many neighborhoods of European cities, the EU has staunchly refused to stop the influx of migrants. It is, therefore, difficult to take seriously in any way the European Commission's claim that the security, offline and online, of EU citizens is a "top priority". www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12010/eu-censorship
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Post by hillbilly on Mar 14, 2018 23:07:54 GMT
Tommy Robinson Will attempt to give the speech at Speakers Corner Martin Sellner the Austrian Right Wing journalist intended to give until his detention and ban from the UK at the weekend. This Sunday 3.00pm. Will he be the first person denied free speech?
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Post by hammered on Mar 14, 2018 23:09:03 GMT
- Watch and weep.
As old Voltaire would say "If you want to know who controls you, look at who you are not allowed to criticize"!!
While May goes double top for a meaningless spy scandal - the Conservatives double down on conservatism.
Makes you wonder why Telford didn't make mainstream headlines, or maybe not!!?
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 14, 2018 23:16:45 GMT
"Offensiveness" is not a reason to curtail speech.
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Post by cooper67 on Mar 15, 2018 0:24:38 GMT
Part of our democratic creed was the phrase “I may not like what you say, but I’ll defend your right to say it”. Seems like we’re moving away from that. I do worry that this is no longer the norm-which makes me very worried.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 15, 2018 7:34:23 GMT
- Watch and weep. As old Voltaire would say "If you want to know who controls you, look at who you are not allowed to criticize"!! While May goes double top for a meaningless spy scandal - the Conservatives double down on conservatism. Makes you wonder why Telford didn't make mainstream headlines, or maybe not!!? Were the actions of the "Asian" paedophile grooming gangs in Telford, Roterham, Rochdae etc etc. deliberately covered up by the authorities ?, it certainly looks as if they were why would that be ?, why do we allow radical muslims to openly incite religious hatred to openly spout their filth on our streets ?
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Post by felonious on Mar 15, 2018 7:55:08 GMT
- Watch and weep. As old Voltaire would say "If you want to know who controls you, look at who you are not allowed to criticize"!! While May goes double top for a meaningless spy scandal - the Conservatives double down on conservatism. Makes you wonder why Telford didn't make mainstream headlines, or maybe not!!? It's difficult to know how to respond to that Hammered. Will watching the video get me on some sort of list? Jihadi Lauren eh?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 15, 2018 7:59:11 GMT
- Watch and weep. As old Voltaire would say "If you want to know who controls you, look at who you are not allowed to criticize"!! While May goes double top for a meaningless spy scandal - the Conservatives double down on conservatism. Makes you wonder why Telford didn't make mainstream headlines, or maybe not!!? Good to see we've taken back control of our borders!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 15, 2018 22:32:55 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 15, 2018 22:34:43 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 16, 2018 19:58:29 GMT
This is difficult to implement/ wide open to abuse
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 17, 2018 10:14:47 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 17, 2018 21:10:51 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 18, 2018 0:46:01 GMT
So a group that try to censor another group have themselves been censored by Facebook - I guess karma has a nice way of correcting itself every now and again.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 18, 2018 1:25:59 GMT
Are we getting to/ at the stage whereby we can't say what we think. Who decides what's allowed? I do have trouble with this. We can't go round saying what we want , if it is genuinely offensive, or could incite violence. Perhaps some extremist groups or thinking needs ' nipping in the bud' I don't know and who decides what is extreme, who is allowed to talk. If it is down to violence or discriminate use of power we will have problems as a society. On the other hand we must be allowed to DISCUSS anything in my opinion. ( DV8 are an excellent theatre company and have drawn attention to the difficult in the past of talking about Islam, without being accused of racism...,using verbatim sources. . ) What's the answer? We've had the implications of Satanic Verses, we've had the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, but just recently three events have occurred that may suggest that we are moving towards a subtle police state. These two were detained, simply wanting to interview Tommy Robinson......love him or hate him ( his past), he did draw attention to grooming gangs before most caught up. Also when challenged , people don't seem to produce evidence of holiday racism I can't agree with masked assailants using violence in these circumstances. Whatever your politics Rees Mogg is not violent ( although there is the pen mightier than the sword argument) I actually get really wound up just thinking about it John To the point I can’t say what I really want to say I sometimes think it’s best just to go along with it all or it makes you ill. World is so fucking plastic ....all reality has gone through the window Or avoid the things that piss you off. I am a Support Worker and the guys had Ant and Dec on the TV, earlier. They were being their usual inane selves, dancing to a fucking atrocious singer, and it cut to several "celebrities", one of whom made her name watching the television(Gogglebox). She really is plastic! 😁 We are told what to think, and anyone who is remotely Conservative in opinion is labelled a Nazi. We aren't even allowed to think something is fucked up anymore. We are being told there is no such thing as gender, for fuck's sake. I was a kid in the 70's and I knew who was a boy and who was a girl. Life was simple. Now you have a woman? with a beard winning the Eurovision Song Contest, while wearing a dress, and you can't think it's even a bit odd! If you don't want to be the ethnic minority in your own country and say anything against mass immigration or Islam you are virtually shunned. Admitting you voted for Brexit is akin to wearing a "Jimmy likes 'em young" tee shirt. The whole fucking thing drives me crazy. It's got to the point where I avoid the news, or political programs, because I know they will be so biased. Question Time is unwatchable, lately. I don't know what the answer is, but I long for simpler times.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 2:16:19 GMT
The western world has been plunged into a cesspit of identity politics and it truly is a tragic indictment of all those who find themselves in the seats of power. Power that, through their disgusting actions and inaction, has revealed itself to be grossly inordinate.
This thread has been up for close to a week. There are posters on this board who hold opposing views to the likes of Tommy Robinson, and yet none of them have shown up to express any concern at the situation. It seems that the suppression of human rights is fair game to them as (they short-sightedly believe that) it strengthens the spread of their personal political ideologies. It is exactly this sort of narrow-mindedness and inability to set political allegiance to oneside that is fostering and abetting the growing resentment throughout society, and the increasing polarisation in politics.
At the risk of venturing into biblical territory, I look at how the atmosphere has toxified in the past decade and I get the strangest instinctive sense that this is the beginning of the end.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 7:03:13 GMT
I actually get really wound up just thinking about it John To the point I can’t say what I really want to say I sometimes think it’s best just to go along with it all or it makes you ill. World is so fucking plastic ....all reality has gone through the window Or avoid the things that piss you off. I am a Support Worker and the guys had Ant and Dec on the TV, earlier. They were being their usual inane selves, dancing to a fucking atrocious singer, and it cut to several "celebrities", one of whom made her name watching the television(Gogglebox). She really is plastic! 😁 We are told what to think, and anyone who is remotely Conservative in opinion is labelled a Nazi. We aren't even allowed to think something is fucked up anymore. We are being told there is no such thing as gender, for fuck's sake. I was a kid in the 70's and I knew who was a boy and who was a girl. Life was simple. Now you have a woman? with a beard winning the Eurovision Song Contest, while wearing a dress, and you can't think it's even a bit odd! If you don't want to be the ethnic minority in your own country and say anything against mass immigration or Islam you are virtually shunned. Admitting you voted for Brexit is akin to wearing a "Jimmy likes 'em young" tee shirt. The whole fucking thing drives me crazy. It's got to the point where I avoid the news, or political programs, because I know they will be so biased. Question Time is unwatchable, lately. I don't know what the answer is, but I long for simpler times. I avoid the news as much as possible too tricky. Have done for a while. What annoys me is the direction the western world is taking with this plastic society. Unfortunately this is only going to encourage the true far right to rise in popularity and that would be very dangerous
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 18, 2018 7:06:22 GMT
So a group that try to censor another group have themselves been censored by Facebook - I guess karma has a nice way of correcting itself every now and again. Exactly. An excellent analogy Rip lad. Are the owners/ administrators of Facebook/ other social media acting like God/a religious system? A mysterious, unseen god inflicting their beliefs on the unknowing? Have they the right to be those who decide what should be banned/promoted? To ' administer' Karma? Who are they? Who are we? Or do we subconsciously identify with that great football chant " Who are you, who are you?" Interestingly,Hitchens in the Daily Mail (wow) defends Corbyn's treatment for holding a different view in the Russian affair. Karma. Any escape from the the thought police. Massive issue; can we say "Pakistani" or do we have to say " Asian" ? God is watching. Zeitgeist is a good word. Are we just a number, 4273? Tom is at Hyde Park today. dailym.ai/2GCYxL5.....there can only be one view.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Mar 18, 2018 7:08:49 GMT
I used to live close to speakers corner many moons ago. A stroll there on a Sunday morning could either be quite interesting or just straightforward funny. Folk genuinely brought their own soap box.
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