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Post by onionman on Mar 11, 2018 15:05:44 GMT
As others have said, Hughes assembled a bunch of random players who can't be put into a sensible system. That would be enough to sink us on its own. Then factor in that we have very few players that are actually good enough as individuals to play consistently well in the Premier League, even if there was a system that worked for them. We also completely disregarded the idea of recruiting players with heart and soul, or leadership qualities. That our young goalie, who is suffering a confidence wobble of his own, is our best bet for captain says it all about the mental qualities of the rest of the team. All in all we are lucky not to be further adrift than we already are. Is he the best bet for captain though? I just put that down to another nuance of Lambert not really having a Scoobies. There's no standout candidates if Shawcross isn't playing. Who else are you suggesting, Joe Allen at a push? Every Stoke team that's done well in my time has had several leaders on the pitch. Every time we've been crap, we seem to scrape the barrel for a team captain. Peter Fox and Larus Sigurdsson spring to mind. I don't think it matters so much who wears the armband or shakes hands with the ref. It just reflects the lack of thought that went into building the team and its overall character.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 11, 2018 15:08:01 GMT
Is he the best bet for captain though? I just put that down to another nuance of Lambert not really having a Scoobies. There's no standout candidates if Shawcross isn't playing. Who else are you suggesting, Joe Allen at a push? Every Stoke team that's done well in my time has had several leaders on the pitch. Every time we've been crap, we seem to scrape the barrel for a team captain. Peter Fox and Larus Sigurdsson spring to mind. I don't think it matters so much who wears the armband or shakes hands with the ref. It just reflects the lack of thought that went into building the team and its overall character. Shawcross should be in the side and when he's not with the team we've been playing I'd have Indi and Allen way ahead of Butland as captain.
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Post by Sfance on Mar 11, 2018 15:11:45 GMT
That’s an easy one. We’re crap. Ask me another.
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Post by butlerstbob on Mar 11, 2018 15:15:16 GMT
I would say Hughes and/or the transfer team have really made a mess of things for the last 2-3 seasons at least, the lack of quality we have at the moment is frightening and seeing the likes of Johnson Adam & Fletcher to name but three anywhere near the match day squad is proof of that! Having said that we have massively under performed and that comes down to the majority of the players being unfit! And the blame for that is firmly at Mark Hughes's door!! So In answer to the question a bit of both!
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Post by onionman on Mar 11, 2018 15:22:53 GMT
There's no standout candidates if Shawcross isn't playing. Who else are you suggesting, Joe Allen at a push? Every Stoke team that's done well in my time has had several leaders on the pitch. Every time we've been crap, we seem to scrape the barrel for a team captain. Peter Fox and Larus Sigurdsson spring to mind. I don't think it matters so much who wears the armband or shakes hands with the ref. It just reflects the lack of thought that went into building the team and its overall character. Shawcross should be in the side and when he's not with the team we've been playing I'd have Indi and Allen way ahead of Butland as captain. I don't really disagree but I don't think there's too much to choose between the leadership qualities of Butland, Allen and Indi. My point is that those three could arguably be worth a place in any of our successful teams of the past 20 years, but none of them would be considered anywhere near captain material.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 11, 2018 15:34:11 GMT
Shawcross should be in the side and when he's not with the team we've been playing I'd have Indi and Allen way ahead of Butland as captain. I don't really disagree but I don't think there's too much to choose between the leadership qualities of Butland, Allen and Indi. My point is that those three could arguably be worth a place in any of our successful teams of the past 20 years, but none of them would be considered anywhere near captain material. None would get in our best team of the last 20 years. But they're still good players or in Allen's case have good leadership skills. Butland I don't think is a leader though tbh.
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Post by hanibal7 on Mar 11, 2018 15:40:01 GMT
The players have let the fans and themselves down massively in my opinion.... Far far too many half arsed performances spread over a long period of time have lead us to where we are right now I agree, some blames has to be with the players too.
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Post by Miles Offside on Mar 11, 2018 15:44:00 GMT
For some reason we never see the phrase "knicker-wetter" on here anymore.
It was all the rage at one time - aimed by those blinded by 3 ninth place finishes at anybody who could see the start of this slow-mo car crash of a season.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 11, 2018 15:44:13 GMT
Scum also rises to the top. Just take a look at the Shit,Arsensl etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 15:53:41 GMT
I think the team just didn’t believe in the plan that’s all.....they probably have a respect for lambert right now but, they know it’s same old same old for next season.
I’d say a bit of under performing and a bit crap is all down to the above
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Post by exiledpotter on Mar 11, 2018 16:07:43 GMT
I'd agree that we've underperformed and been crap. We've also thrown mistakes at key moments and bad luck into the mix too. Strangely, its why there is still hope ... we are long overdue a flukey goal or two.
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 11, 2018 16:12:00 GMT
We are just crap. Our whole attack is wholly reliant on a bloke who's been a passenger (putting it politely) for two and a half years conjuring up a goal from 30 yards. That's the squad that Hughes built.
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 11, 2018 16:22:32 GMT
Crap
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Post by tqstokie on Mar 11, 2018 16:31:32 GMT
I think we would have to improve a bit to be crap!
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Post by iglugluk on Mar 11, 2018 16:42:53 GMT
Poorly constructed squad with glaring deficiencies in most key areas, I would say. It was obvious Hughes was in the process of creating this mess easily long enough ago for it to have been avoided. But the owners and many on here kept buying into the pie in the sky belief that there was some sort of overarching project happening.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Mar 11, 2018 16:50:01 GMT
Until c.18 months ago our squads had been pretty strong and arguably top half material almost by default - the subsequent exposure of Hughes' shortcomings coupled with the failure / reluctance of the board to recognise this and avoid some poor transfer decisions has resulted in a rapid deterioration to the point where money can no longer be thrown at it.......as luck would have it there are a number of clubs still in the relegation mire and as we have seen before anything can happen - relegation whilst likely, is not a certainty.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 11, 2018 17:30:12 GMT
I would say that is West Brom actually. Just look at their squad. It's made up of top 10 (and one or two top 6) players who literally cannot gel whatsoever. They're the most confused group of players in the Prem. I would say our squad had chemistry that was sucked out by Hughes mismanagement by the end. Yeah the West Brom situation is bizarre. Their squad should be comfortably top half and they have a spine that in paper is as good as any outside the top six. Can’t work out how it’s gone so badly wrong there. I think our squad, as I’ve said on another thread, just isn’t built for anything? We’ve had no discernible blueprint for too long. Hughes meandered for far too long really. Never had much of a plan beyond the first 2-3 seasons.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 11, 2018 17:36:24 GMT
Yeah the West Brom situation is bizarre. Their squad should be comfortably top half and they have a spine that in paper is as good as any outside the top six. Can’t work out how it’s gone so badly wrong there. I think our squad, as I’ve said on another thread, just isn’t built for anything? We’ve had no discernible blueprint for too long. Hughes meandered for far too long really. Never had much of a plan beyond the first 2-3 seasons. The sale of Nzonzi was really the beginning of the end for him. It was never going to be easy to replace him but we had long enough to prepare for him going and yet we were scrabbling around taking shots in the dark when he actually left.
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Post by Gods on Mar 11, 2018 17:41:53 GMT
For some reason we never see the phrase "knicker-wetter" on here anymore. It was all the rage at one time - aimed by those blinded by 3 ninth place finishes at anybody who could see the start of this slow-mo car crash of a season. Worth a thread all of its own, go for it !
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Post by metalhead on Mar 11, 2018 22:54:00 GMT
Hughes meandered for far too long really. Never had much of a plan beyond the first 2-3 seasons. The sale of Nzonzi was really the beginning of the end for him. It was never going to be easy to replace him but we had long enough to prepare for him going and yet we were scrabbling around taking shots in the dark when he actually left. The replacements have really struggled and are a bit of a stain on his legacy.
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Post by onionman on Mar 11, 2018 23:17:26 GMT
The sale of Nzonzi was really the beginning of the end for him. It was never going to be easy to replace him but we had long enough to prepare for him going and yet we were scrabbling around taking shots in the dark when he actually left. The replacements have really struggled and are a bit of a stain on his legacy. "A bit of a stain". Like the time I dived headfirst into a swimming pool full of green paint, tar and cow dung left a "bit of a stain" on my plain white shirt.
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Post by thegift on Mar 11, 2018 23:19:46 GMT
underperformed, massively. Our squad should be easily top 10/12. Our group of centre halves and keepers, in particular, is the best outside the top 6 for me. To be honest, add Arsenal into that too. We have a poor midfield, but Allen and Cameron are an alright partnership. There was just no depth until Badou came in. Picking attacking midfield/wingers from a group of Jese/Shaqiri/Choupo/Ramadan/Ireland really isn't that bad. Strikers are a bit crap. Our team is about level with Everton, Leicester and Saints. It's just that what we have in defence, they have up top or in midfield. For our defence to have conceded as many as they have is a genuine disgrace and completely down to management. Think Leicester, Soton and Everton all have better squads than us, at least on paper. On paper leciester's squad is better on than ours. But not everton or southampton.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 11, 2018 23:21:08 GMT
Think Leicester, Soton and Everton all have better squads than us, at least on paper. On paper leciester's squad is better on than ours. But not everton or southampton. Bollocks
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Post by thegift on Mar 11, 2018 23:21:39 GMT
On paper leciester's squad is better on than ours. But not everton or southampton. Bollocks Here we goooooo
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Post by cheekycheddleton on Mar 11, 2018 23:26:44 GMT
I always knew this was goin to happen. Hughes was always crap just matter of time before he sent us down.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 11, 2018 23:30:58 GMT
I always knew this was goin to happen. Hughes was always crap just matter of time before he sent us down. You should have warned Coatesy 5 years ago. Honestly, what a load of old arse.
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Post by cheekycheddleton on Mar 11, 2018 23:32:50 GMT
I always knew this was goin to happen. Hughes was always crap just matter of time before he sent us down. You should have warned Coatesy 5 years ago. Honestly, what a load of old arse. ye i did. didnt want hughes to bbegin with
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 11, 2018 23:34:14 GMT
You should have warned Coatesy 5 years ago. Honestly, what a load of old arse. ye i did. didnt want hughes to bbegin with Good for you.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 12, 2018 7:47:31 GMT
You should have warned Coatesy 5 years ago. Honestly, what a load of old arse. ye i did. didnt want hughes to bbegin with Did you always know he'd deliver the club's best league finishes for 40 years as well?
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Post by davyboy on Mar 12, 2018 9:33:43 GMT
Whilst I agree with those who blame Hughes, I think the real culprits are the board. I can only assume that they were taken in by all the pundits on TV who kept saying Stoke are too good to go down!! That may have been the case a couple of years ago, but supporters could see the problems that were appearing over 18 months ago and yet, not only did they dither in the summer and give Hughes another chance, but they let too many games go by before the inevitable sacking. I feel sympathy with Lambert. He has not been given enough games and time to put things right, though the positive signs are coming through. If he had more time he could have come in, assessed the squad and moved quickly in the transfer market to get the right players in - including a striker. Sadly, time and an tough run-in is probably against us unless, as seems unlikely, we can conjure up some shock wins - 3/4 to be exact.Championship sadly beckons and that could prove disastrous.
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