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Post by thegift on Feb 23, 2018 10:58:39 GMT
I'd even have lallana over Wiltshire So what would your England team look like? ------- Butland ----- Walker ---- Cahill --- P.jones --- Rose Ali ----- dier---- Rashford Vardy ---------- Kane ----Sterling
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 11:02:50 GMT
Somebody mentioned a little prick. Danny Rose fit's that bill.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 11:03:27 GMT
Lallana’s a very clever player but I always think he looks better further forward as well. If Southgate’s thinking 3-4-3 then I think he’s competing for one of the spots on the nominal left of the three with Alli. He is better further forward but I much prefer him to be central as opposed to out wide. I think after that the midfield options are pretty dire. Is it wrong that I would take James Milner? I almost wonder if it's worth chucking someone like Winks in there?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 11:04:14 GMT
So what would your England team look like? ------- Butland ----- Walker ---- Cahill --- P.jones --- Rose Ali ----- dier---- Rashford Vardy ---------- Kane ----Sterling Vardy wide and Dier as a one-man midfield? Best of luck with that chief.
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Post by knowingeye on Feb 23, 2018 11:17:47 GMT
Jack Wilshire has reportedly been offered an £80k per week contract (down from £90k per week) worth up to £120k per week with bonuses.
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Post by ohbottom on Feb 23, 2018 11:34:20 GMT
He is better further forward but I much prefer him to be central as opposed to out wide. I think after that the midfield options are pretty dire. Is it wrong that I would take James Milner? I almost wonder if it's worth chucking someone like Winks in there? I'd certainly take him ahead of Wilshere.
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Post by ohbottom on Feb 23, 2018 11:48:45 GMT
Dele Alli (Also a putrid verminous serpent) is twice the player in the same role. He doesn't play the same role does he? Wilshere plays deeper? Wilshere can play one role only. Dele can also play in that role and does it better, plus he gets into the box. He is also excellent playing behind the striker. Regardless, the fact that Wilshere gets into the England squad only serves to highlight how poor our MF options are. It doesn't mean he's not over-rated.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 11:50:22 GMT
Lallana is too lightweight, Ali is just diving scum, Wilshire is a product of spoilt brat English Premiership.
No wonder we have little hope in the World Cup is it?
All need to man up or is that a dead pc term now....ok woman up that would still be a big improvement.
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Post by ohbottom on Feb 23, 2018 11:53:23 GMT
You might aswell compare gary cahill to mame diouf ? Alli and Wilshire play in different positions. I'm genuinely bemused by the bizarre things folk say on here sometimes. There's plenty of overlap between Alli and Wilshere, whereas Cahill couldn't be further away from Diouf unless you stuck him in goal!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 12:04:48 GMT
He doesn't play the same role does he? Wilshere plays deeper? Wilshere can play one role only. Dele can also play in that role and does it better, plus he gets into the box. He is also excellent playing behind the striker. Regardless, the fact that Wilshere gets into the England squad only serves to highlight how poor our MF options are. It doesn't mean he's not over-rated. Dele's never really convinced in that deeper role, what evidence is there that he can do it better? There was a time when Wilshere was massively overrated but he's played so little in recent years it doesn't feel like that (to me at least) I can't see a better option if everyone's fit than a Dier/Wilshere midfield - and Dier is arguably barely good enough either.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 12:05:15 GMT
You might aswell compare gary cahill to mame diouf ? Alli and Wilshire play in different positions. I'm genuinely bemused by the bizarre things folk say on here sometimes. There's plenty of overlap between Alli and Wilshere, whereas Cahill couldn't be further away from Diouf unless you stuck him in goal! How many games has Dele Alli played in a deeper midfield role and in which ones has he excelled?
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Feb 23, 2018 12:17:56 GMT
More nonsense from Keane. When fit wilshere is a bloody fine player. Yes he’s a twat but I’d be taking him the World Cup. He just said overrated , some of the pundits cream over him as if he is potewntially world class , he is a good creative player and Id take him to the world Cup but he certainly has been overrated by many in the game
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Post by ohbottom on Feb 23, 2018 12:18:19 GMT
I'm genuinely bemused by the bizarre things folk say on here sometimes. There's plenty of overlap between Alli and Wilshere, whereas Cahill couldn't be further away from Diouf unless you stuck him in goal! How many games has Dele Alli played in a deeper midfield role and in which ones has he excelled? This is getting silly. You're making it sound like Wilshere plays as a DM. He's not, plays central MF. Alli also plays central MF. Yes, he also gets in the box, and yes he can play as support for a striker. He's a better MF'er than Wilshere ever was IMHO. Just because there may not be an exact 100% identical mapping on the pitch between where they play doesn't mean Alli is not a MF'er. Here's one, Germany v England 2016 - Alli played in MF and was deservedly named MOM. I hate it when threads degenerate into two people arguing over some point of pedantry so this is my last word on this particular subject.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 12:20:03 GMT
How many games has Dele Alli played in a deeper midfield role and in which ones has he excelled? This is getting silly. You're making it sound like Wilshere plays as a DM. He's not, plays central MF. Alli also plays central MF. Yes, he also gets in the box, and yes he can play as support for a striker. He's a better MF'er than Wilshere ever was IMHO. Just because there may not be an exact 100% identical mapping on the pitch between where they play doesn't mean Alli is not a MF'er. Here's one, Germany v England 2016 - Alli played in MF and was deservedly named MOM. I hate it when threads degenerate into two people arguing over some point of pedantry so this is my last word on this particular subject. It's not a matter of pedantry. Wilshere is box to box, Alli is a number 10. They don't play the same position. It seems more to do with hating Wilshere because he's a nasty little scrote than his ability as a footballer.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Feb 23, 2018 12:41:29 GMT
As long as Henderson and Dier don't play together.......
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Post by nigerianstokie on Feb 23, 2018 13:02:02 GMT
He is better further forward but I much prefer him to be central as opposed to out wide. I think after that the midfield options are pretty dire. Is it wrong that I would take James Milner? I almost wonder if it's worth chucking someone like Winks in there? Winks is a very decent player, I would very much get him in the squad. Wasn't Allardyce after N'Zonzi for England at a time?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 13:06:05 GMT
I almost wonder if it's worth chucking someone like Winks in there? Winks is a very decent player, I would very much get him in the squad. Wasn't Allardyce after N'Zonzi for England at a time? Supposedly so, it turned out there wasn't a loophole after all there.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 23, 2018 13:16:05 GMT
Wilshire is bang average.
The fact he couldn't command a place in Bournemouth's side last season speaks volumes.
You could argue he deserves a place in the England team if he stays fit, but when your main competition is Jordan fucking Henderson, it's hardly a glowing reference.
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Post by ohbottom on Feb 23, 2018 13:35:42 GMT
This is getting silly. You're making it sound like Wilshere plays as a DM. He's not, plays central MF. Alli also plays central MF. Yes, he also gets in the box, and yes he can play as support for a striker. He's a better MF'er than Wilshere ever was IMHO. Just because there may not be an exact 100% identical mapping on the pitch between where they play doesn't mean Alli is not a MF'er. Here's one, Germany v England 2016 - Alli played in MF and was deservedly named MOM. I hate it when threads degenerate into two people arguing over some point of pedantry so this is my last word on this particular subject. It's not a matter of pedantry. Wilshere is box to box, Alli is a number 10. They don't play the same position. It seems more to do with hating Wilshere because he's a nasty little scrote than his ability as a footballer. The thread is about Wilshere being over-rated, which he is. You can convince yourself Alli plays on the moon, makes no difference, Wilshere is still over-rated. The lack of English options in MF doesn't change that, he's still over-rated. He's not shit, never said he was. But he's nowhere near as good as his hype. Over-rated, in fact. He's also a nasty little scrote, I'll agree with you there
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Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2018 13:48:04 GMT
Wilshire is bang average. The fact he couldn't command a place in Bournemouth's side last season speaks volumes. You could argue he deserves a place in the England team if he stays fit, but when your main competition is Jordan fucking Henderson, it's hardly a glowing reference. he played majority of Bournemouth's game didn't he? can't say he excelled mind England have a world class striker, some good payers in other parts of the pitch but behind Ali the midfield is not great for sure.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 13:52:55 GMT
It's not a matter of pedantry. Wilshere is box to box, Alli is a number 10. They don't play the same position. It seems more to do with hating Wilshere because he's a nasty little scrote than his ability as a footballer. The thread is about Wilshere being over-rated, which he is. You can convince yourself Alli plays on the moon, makes no difference, Wilshere is still over-rated. The lack of English options in MF doesn't change that, he's still over-rated. He's not shit, never said he was. But he's nowhere near as good as his hype. Over-rated, in fact. He's also a nasty little scrote, I'll agree with you there I don’t think there is any hype in 2018. He’s the best of a modest group of options for that role. I don’t need to convince myself of anything, Tottenham are always on telly and Dembele and Wanyama are their first choice central midfielders. Alli plays ahead of them.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Feb 23, 2018 13:56:19 GMT
Wilshire is bang average. The fact he couldn't command a place in Bournemouth's side last season speaks volumes. You could argue he deserves a place in the England team if he stays fit, but when your main competition is Jordan fucking Henderson, it's hardly a glowing reference. he played majority of Bournemouth's game didn't he? can't say he excelled mind England have a world class striker, some good payers in other parts of the pitch but behind Ali the midfield is not great for sure. 1950 minutes played last season. Equivalent of approximately 21 full games. Just over 50%.
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Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2018 13:59:29 GMT
he played majority of Bournemouth's game didn't he? can't say he excelled mind England have a world class striker, some good payers in other parts of the pitch but behind Ali the midfield is not great for sure. 1950 minutes played last season. Equivalent of approximately 21 full games. Just over 50%. hmm, so neither here or there in a side where he should be the star however he isn't wank,he is at least as good as the other options maybe Winks & Loftus Cheek will soon eclipse him but this summer may be too early?
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Post by ohbottom on Feb 23, 2018 14:29:35 GMT
The thread is about Wilshere being over-rated, which he is. You can convince yourself Alli plays on the moon, makes no difference, Wilshere is still over-rated. The lack of English options in MF doesn't change that, he's still over-rated. He's not shit, never said he was. But he's nowhere near as good as his hype. Over-rated, in fact. He's also a nasty little scrote, I'll agree with you there I don’t think there is any hype in 2018. He’s the best of a modest group of options for that role. I don’t need to convince myself of anything, Tottenham are always on telly and Dembele and Wanyama are their first choice central midfielders. Alli plays ahead of them. Alli/Dembele/Wanyama have nothing to do with Wilshere being over-rated. Lack of other options has nothing to do with him being over-rated. His improvement this season is real, but it's only taking him back towards where he was when he first broke onto the scene as a precocious teenager, when he was going to be The Next Big Thing.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Feb 23, 2018 14:32:37 GMT
More nonsense from Keane. When fit wilshere is a bloody fine player. Yes he’s a twat but I’d be taking him the World Cup. He just said overrated , some of the pundits cream over him as if he is potewntially world class , he is a good creative player and Id take him to the world Cup but he certainly has been overrated by many in the game He said "the most overrated player on the planet" (according to the OP anyway) - which as overrated goes that's pretty overrated. Not sure who's actually doing the overrating though. Certainly not Wenger or Eddie Howe who have only used him as a squad player recently and no other club seems to be falling over themselves to sign him despite his contract running down. As for most overrated then he's certainly got strong competition from likes of John Stones, Phil Jones and Ross Barklay IMHO.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 14:45:45 GMT
I don’t think there is any hype in 2018. He’s the best of a modest group of options for that role. I don’t need to convince myself of anything, Tottenham are always on telly and Dembele and Wanyama are their first choice central midfielders. Alli plays ahead of them. Alli/Dembele/Wanyama have nothing to do with Wilshere being over-rated. Lack of other options has nothing to do with him being over-rated. His improvement this season is real, but it's only taking him back towards where he was when he first broke onto the scene as a precocious teenager, when he was going to be The Next Big Thing. I'm really not interested in how 'rated' he is. My point was that is things stand there isn't a better option in central midfield, and that includes Alli, who doesn't actually play that position for his club and has rarely played it for England either.
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Post by Olgrligm on Feb 23, 2018 14:52:32 GMT
One of the problems with Wilshere is that people find it very difficult to like him, and there's a temptation to overlook any positive qualities just because he's not very popular. It's not very easy to be totally objective about him under those circumstances, but there is evidence to suggest that he's just not very good.
I'm largely thinking of his loan spell at Bournemouth. He played 29 games for them before getting injured and, if I recall Bournemouth's game against us, he played in an advanced role with Arter and Gibson behind him. In a system that was built around him, with two water carriers looking after him, it pretty quickly became apparent that Wilshere was pretty much a passenger, being carried through games by the other two.
Without his weighty reputation and expensive loan fee, it's unlikely that they would have persevered with him, and his injury coincided with Bournemouth going on an unbeaten run until the end of the season. Without the 11 extra points that they accrued without him, they would have been relegated.
When he struggles to make an impact in a pretty average Premier League team, you have to wonder what his level actually is. It surely isn't the England national team.
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Post by PenkPonther on Feb 23, 2018 15:00:50 GMT
Re: Roy Keane, I must say I thoroughly enjoy his ITV punditry partnership with Lee Dixon. (Glenn Hoddle coming off the bench as a replacement pundit from time to time isn't a bad substitute either).
Yes Keane is a grouch, and tough to please, but there's always something to be said for watching him savaging the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool, after their latest European capitulations.
Good work ITV, after many years of sh*te football coverage previously.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 23, 2018 15:04:33 GMT
Re: Roy Keane, I must say I thoroughly enjoy his ITV punditry partnership with Lee Dixon. (Glenn Hoddle coming off the bench as a replacement pundit from time to time isn't a bad substitute either). Yes Keane is a grouch, and tough to please, but there's always something to be said for watching him savaging the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool, after their latest European capitulations. Good work ITV, after many years of sh*te football coverage previously. Didn't Liverpool win 5-0?
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Post by stillgame4it on Feb 23, 2018 15:08:04 GMT
As long as Henderson and Dier don't play together....... As long as Henderson doesn't play. Full stop. Stealing a living as a pro footballer as it is
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