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Post by silverdollar on Feb 15, 2018 10:11:30 GMT
I wouldn't disagree with you that Shaqiri is better giving him the freedom to move from his wide position to a central position. Jese is also a better player given freedom to move. Isn't that what I meant when I said a "fluid"" three. Any idiot who can't see that Crouch and Diouf are just not good enough are not worth arguing with. Sorry for my arrogance but I am correct. Just watch a role model side like Man City play and you will see offensive methods that any team should aspire to. Gone are the days of rigid formations that defenders find easy to master. In Shaqiri and Jese we have players who can create and score. I have watched Berahino play since he was ten years of age and he is a goal scorer. The best one we have available at the moment. I say that with every respect for Crouch who was a good striker. Sometimes effort is just not good enough! Your insistence that you're correct intrigues me. What makes you think that we should persist with someone who hasn't scored in his past 46 appearances and 2 seasons of football... TWO YEARS... When both Crouch and Diouf have indeed scored more than one goal in the past two years at the same level??? I don't get it? Also, looking at Man City as an example is great if you have the financial power to buy the best attacking players in Europe if not the world, however if you haven't noticed, instead of De Bruyne - who is genius by the way - Sane, Silva and Aguerro we have Adam, Choupo-Moting, Shaqiri and Diouf. To suggest we should be playing the same style with completely different style players is ludicrous surely? You cannot base your opinion of Berahino based on time. You cannot score unless you are actually on the pitch playing. The other thing is that this argument isn't about whether Berahino is a great striker. It is about what is the best team formation available to us! Pace is so important in the modern game. Technical ability is also important. Then of course the ability to put the ball in the net. Very easy to diss our players when comparing them with the genius of the Man City squad. Something to be admired and something essentially that any player to aspire to. I noticed that when listing the Man City players you didn't conveniently list any of the British players who are contributing and then when listing the Stoke players you included Adam, Diouf and even Choupo! Stoke's management had a really difficult task over the last two season because they have been changing the mentality within the dressing room. The unity and strength of mind that existed with the likes of Huth, Whelan, Walters, Crouch and Adam had to be broken up and replaced because of the age factor. Well respected players by the fans. The manager failed abysmally in the transfer market on the whole and now a team has to be developed with what we have. This argument you want to have should not be about how good squad players are. It should be about what is the best formation for us to escape relegation. If we persist with unfit and very slow players like Adam and Crouch we are doomed. Diouf is a likeable player because he always gives 100% effort but the guy has very limited technical ability or vision. His goal conversion rate is poor. After three matches it was soul destroying to see that Lambert still cannot see our best eleven which IMO is:- Butland, Bauer, Shawcross, Zouma, Pieters, Cameron, NDiaye, Allen, Shaqiri, Jese and Berahino. Yes you can easily pick holes in some of the players performances and yes I thought about finding room for Indi but the fact remains that these are best eleven players available to start. The subs would be; Grant, Campbell, Indi, Choupo, Edwards, Afellay and Diouf. One thing we can all agree on is that I hope we can escape escape the trap door of relegation and survive!
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Post by silverdollar on Feb 15, 2018 10:21:59 GMT
Not always been the case initially but one thing for certain. They have to be on the pitch!!! It's not always been the case that goal scorers score goals? Come again? That's the one thing that literally defines the term? Berahino hasn't looked like scoring when he's been on the pitch, even against the mighty Coventry and Bury. Again, what exactly are you basing this on? Many of Stoke's past great scorers went through baron patches that made you question their ability! Jimmy Greaves once gave a great explanation on the art of scoring goals: " The art of arriving in the six yard box as the ball arrives without being offside" ! Stoke's problem has always been with delivery. Arnautovic to an extent used to get near the dead ball line before delivering the ball and clever players such as Crouch and Allen would score. If we can do this Berahino will score goals!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 15, 2018 10:43:35 GMT
It's not always been the case that goal scorers score goals? Come again? That's the one thing that literally defines the term? Berahino hasn't looked like scoring when he's been on the pitch, even against the mighty Coventry and Bury. Again, what exactly are you basing this on? Many of Stoke's past great scorers went through baron patches that made you question their ability! Jimmy Greaves once gave a great explanation on the art of scoring goals: " The art of arriving in the six yard box as the ball arrives without being offside" ! Stoke's problem has always been with delivery. Arnautovic to an extent used to get near the dead ball line before delivering the ball and clever players such as Crouch and Allen would score. If we can do this Berahino will score goals! Berahino doesn’t get into those areas in the first place. He lacks the capacity or inclination to make anything happen for himself. And how many of our greatest goal scorers went a year without scoring a goal for us? Again, what are you basing this on with regards to Berahino himself?
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Post by superheroantonius on Feb 15, 2018 11:14:55 GMT
Berahino is a fraud, a charlatan and a schyster. My favourite kind of person
But he is just not a footballer
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Feb 15, 2018 11:33:26 GMT
Berahino has done absolutely nothing to warrant a place in the starting line up, nothing.
I'd sooner see Campbell up there, someone who's performances warrant at least half a chance.
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Post by silverdollar on Feb 15, 2018 12:27:24 GMT
Many of Stoke's past great scorers went through baron patches that made you question their ability! Jimmy Greaves once gave a great explanation on the art of scoring goals: " The art of arriving in the six yard box as the ball arrives without being offside" ! Stoke's problem has always been with delivery. Arnautovic to an extent used to get near the dead ball line before delivering the ball and clever players such as Crouch and Allen would score. If we can do this Berahino will score goals! Berahino doesn’t get into those areas in the first place. He lacks the capacity or inclination to make anything happen for himself. And how many of our greatest goal scorers went a year without scoring a goal for us? Again, what are you basing this on with regards to Berahino himself? Even allowing for the fact that Berahino has hardly started a game for Stoke and of course was under pressure from the word go there were plenty of examples of his quality. Problem is people like yourself have been bigoted against the lad from the word go. On top of this he was played under a poor formation and hung up to dry by a poor tactical coach. It is no coincidence that Bony and others also failed to score. This will be my last post on the matter because you will never agree with me but let's hope we avoid relegation!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 12:38:21 GMT
Berahino has done absolutely nothing to warrant a place in the starting line up, nothing. I'd sooner see Campbell up there, someone who's performances warrant at least half a chance. You all most had me with the italics fella, but repeating it in bold made it crystal clear to me......
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Post by stantheman on Feb 15, 2018 12:52:13 GMT
Jese-Berahino upfront
The only place I would want that pair upfront, is the front of the queue that leaves our club as soon as possible
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 15, 2018 13:12:22 GMT
Berahino doesn’t get into those areas in the first place. He lacks the capacity or inclination to make anything happen for himself. And how many of our greatest goal scorers went a year without scoring a goal for us? Again, what are you basing this on with regards to Berahino himself? Even allowing for the fact that Berahino has hardly started a game for Stoke and of course was under pressure from the word go there were plenty of examples of his quality. Problem is people like yourself have been bigoted against the lad from the word go. On top of this he was played under a poor formation and hung up to dry by a poor tactical coach. It is no coincidence that Bony and others also failed to score. This will be my last post on the matter because you will never agree with me but let's hope we avoid relegation! I wasn't bigoted against him from the word go at all. I actually thought at the time there must still be a chance of him turning it around. Boo hoo, he was under pressure, welcome to the world of top level sport. He's started games and done nothing and he's come off the bench and done nothing. What examples were there of his quality? Give me four or five?
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Feb 15, 2018 13:24:32 GMT
Berahino has done absolutely nothing to warrant a place in the starting line up, nothing. I'd sooner see Campbell up there, someone who's performances warrant at least half a chance. You all most had me with the italics fella, but repeating it in bold made it crystal clear to me......
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Post by sharonbeech21 on Feb 17, 2018 23:33:51 GMT
Berahino is shit and got to be by far one of the worst signings we have ever made. Absolutely useless why he is still here i dont know. He is robbing a living as a footballer offers absolutely nothing
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Post by mrcoke on Feb 19, 2018 12:52:52 GMT
Jese is talented enough to be worth a try; like Shaq he can win a match with a touch of brilliance. Hopefully he has put his personal problems behind him and he can concentrate 100% on the day job.
I hate criticising our own players, but how many times can you give Berahino a chance? Granted he has not been started, but he has had quite a bit of game time, particularly when defences are tiring and he has not even looked close to scoring. It's not as though he is unlucky, he is just not getting into scoring positions, like Diouf does. Diouf's finishing is not good enough and he has had loads of game time and even he doesn't look like scoring with poor first touch and poor shooting. The only thing he is good at is heading and wearing down the opposition, but Crouch is a better header.
Surely it's time to gamble and given Campbell a go. He is clearly "hot" at the moment. It's not as though he could lose us the match. So I would give him 60 minutes against Leicester with Jese and if it isn't working bring on Crouch.
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 19, 2018 14:26:29 GMT
Jese is talented enough to be worth a try; like Shaq he can win a match with a touch of brilliance. Hopefully he has put his personal problems behind him and he can concentrate 100% on the day job. I hate criticising our own players, but how many times can you give Berahino a chance? Granted he has not been started, but he has had quite a bit of game time, particularly when defences are tiring and he has not even looked close to scoring. It's not as though he is unlucky, he is just not getting into scoring positions, like Diouf does. Diouf's finishing is not good enough and he has had loads of game time and even he doesn't look like scoring with poor first touch and poor shooting. The only thing he is good at is heading and wearing down the opposition, but Crouch is a better header. Surely it's time to gamble and given Campbell a go. He is clearly "hot" at the moment. It's not as though he could lose us the match. So I would give him 60 minutes against Leicester with Jese and if it isn't working bring on Crouch. Berahino needs to be getting rid of! Problem will be to find any takers I guess! Another hopless signing by Hughes or the transfer team!?
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Post by superheroantonius on Feb 19, 2018 16:22:45 GMT
I was watching rochdale v spurs yesterday
After about ten minutes it was pretty clear rochdale have a better striker than berahino, and They are probably the worst side in league 1!
Jese maybe, diouf maybe, crouch maybe, but berahino is a non runner at prem level
He literally couldnt get a game at bristol city / coventry / rochdale
And I am being serious
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Post by kustokie on Feb 19, 2018 17:02:59 GMT
Your insistence that you're correct intrigues me. What makes you think that we should persist with someone who hasn't scored in his past 46 appearances and 2 seasons of football... TWO YEARS... When both Crouch and Diouf have indeed scored more than one goal in the past two years at the same level??? I don't get it? Also, looking at Man City as an example is great if you have the financial power to buy the best attacking players in Europe if not the world, however if you haven't noticed, instead of De Bruyne - who is genius by the way - Sane, Silva and Aguerro we have Adam, Choupo-Moting, Shaqiri and Diouf. To suggest we should be playing the same style with completely different style players is ludicrous surely? You cannot base your opinion of Berahino based on time. You cannot score unless you are actually on the pitch playing. The other thing is that this argument isn't about whether Berahino is a great striker. It is about what is the best team formation available to us! Pace is so important in the modern game. Technical ability is also important. Then of course the ability to put the ball in the net. Very easy to diss our players when comparing them with the genius of the Man City squad. Something to be admired and something essentially that any player to aspire to. I noticed that when listing the Man City players you didn't conveniently list any of the British players who are contributing and then when listing the Stoke players you included Adam, Diouf and even Choupo! Stoke's management had a really difficult task over the last two season because they have been changing the mentality within the dressing room. The unity and strength of mind that existed with the likes of Huth, Whelan, Walters, Crouch and Adam had to be broken up and replaced because of the age factor. Well respected players by the fans. The manager failed abysmally in the transfer market on the whole and now a team has to be developed with what we have. This argument you want to have should not be about how good squad players are. It should be about what is the best formation for us to escape relegation. If we persist with unfit and very slow players like Adam and Crouch we are doomed. Diouf is a likeable player because he always gives 100% effort but the guy has very limited technical ability or vision. His goal conversion rate is poor. After three matches it was soul destroying to see that Lambert still cannot see our best eleven which IMO is:- Butland, Bauer, Shawcross, Zouma, Pieters, Cameron, NDiaye, Allen, Shaqiri, Jese and Berahino. Yes you can easily pick holes in some of the players performances and yes I thought about finding room for Indi but the fact remains that these are best eleven players available to start. The subs would be; Grant, Campbell, Indi, Choupo, Edwards, Afellay and Diouf. One thing we can all agree on is that I hope we can escape escape the trap door of relegation and survive! Hughes never knew his best team with the present squad in two years. You can’t expect Lambert to fix this overnight. I am afraid there is no ideal combination of the players in the squad. Whatever 11 he puts out there's going to be a weakness somewhere. This is a shambles of Hughes’s creation and it’s not the first time he’s left a team in worse shape than he found it. Don’t like to say “I told you so, but I told you so”. I never wanted him in the first place.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 19, 2018 19:10:52 GMT
Your insistence that you're correct intrigues me. What makes you think that we should persist with someone who hasn't scored in his past 46 appearances and 2 seasons of football... TWO YEARS... When both Crouch and Diouf have indeed scored more than one goal in the past two years at the same level??? I don't get it? Also, looking at Man City as an example is great if you have the financial power to buy the best attacking players in Europe if not the world, however if you haven't noticed, instead of De Bruyne - who is genius by the way - Sane, Silva and Aguerro we have Adam, Choupo-Moting, Shaqiri and Diouf. To suggest we should be playing the same style with completely different style players is ludicrous surely? You cannot base your opinion of Berahino based on time. You cannot score unless you are actually on the pitch playing. The other thing is that this argument isn't about whether Berahino is a great striker. It is about what is the best team formation available to us! Pace is so important in the modern game. Technical ability is also important. Then of course the ability to put the ball in the net. Very easy to diss our players when comparing them with the genius of the Man City squad. Something to be admired and something essentially that any player to aspire to. I noticed that when listing the Man City players you didn't conveniently list any of the British players who are contributing and then when listing the Stoke players you included Adam, Diouf and even Choupo! Stoke's management had a really difficult task over the last two season because they have been changing the mentality within the dressing room. The unity and strength of mind that existed with the likes of Huth, Whelan, Walters, Crouch and Adam had to be broken up and replaced because of the age factor. Well respected players by the fans. The manager failed abysmally in the transfer market on the whole and now a team has to be developed with what we have. This argument you want to have should not be about how good squad players are. It should be about what is the best formation for us to escape relegation. If we persist with unfit and very slow players like Adam and Crouch we are doomed. Diouf is a likeable player because he always gives 100% effort but the guy has very limited technical ability or vision. His goal conversion rate is poor. After three matches it was soul destroying to see that Lambert still cannot see our best eleven which IMO is:- Butland, Bauer, Shawcross, Zouma, Pieters, Cameron, NDiaye, Allen, Shaqiri, Jese and Berahino. Yes you can easily pick holes in some of the players performances and yes I thought about finding room for Indi but the fact remains that these are best eleven players available to start. The subs would be; Grant, Campbell, Indi, Choupo, Edwards, Afellay and Diouf. One thing we can all agree on is that I hope we can escape escape the trap door of relegation and survive! Berahino has not impressed his last three managers one of whom chased him for nearly two years, are they wrong ? do you know better than them ?, from the evidence we have so far he would be lucky to get into Vales team, his display at Coventry was abysmal he spent most the match hiding behind fourth division defenders. How the hell you can come to the conclusion he should be part of our best eleven is frankly ridiculous.
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Post by milky on Feb 19, 2018 19:18:22 GMT
Berahino and Jese up front would pretty much rubber stamp our relegation
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Post by silverdollar on Feb 20, 2018 9:24:18 GMT
Berahino and Jese up front would pretty much rubber stamp our relegation On the contrary! The persistence with Crouch or Diouf will ensure we are Relegated. What a problem Lambert has!
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