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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 4, 2018 0:05:21 GMT
I know we can all point the finger and say he didn't invest enough in the summer (which is true) and that he kept faith with Hughes for too long (also true) but think of it this way:
The man is 80-years-old, and all he wanted to do before he pops his clogs was establish us as a Premier League club. I suppose in some ways he's seen that happen- ten years is a decent stretch for a club like us, and the cup final, Europa League and 9th place finishes were all great, but he now faces the prospect of overseeing his beloved team end up back at the start again- the same position we were in when he took over, and deep down he'll know it's pretty much all his fault.
That's quite a heavy burden to carry around with you at his age. I'm sure he envisaged it rather differently- an announcement that he was stepping down and handing control over to John with Stoke firmly ensconced in upper mid-table and plans for a statue of him to be unveiled somewhere in the bet365 stadium car park. He probably dreamt about 30,000 people singing his name as he waved farewell, having fully redeemed himself following the horrendous first spell he put us all through. Relegation changes all that though. There'll be acrimony and blame- ten years of good will wiped out in one season, and the distant past being dragged up by those who never truly forgave him for those awful years of the 80s and 90s.
I genuinely think that in keeping faith with Hughes he was convinced his man would turn it around. I know it seems ridiculous now after some of the horrendous performances we witnessed as the Hughes-era played out its excruciating death throes, but Coatesy had clearly convinced himself that everything would be alright, as incorrect as that conviction turned out to be.
It's going to devastate everyone if we go down. There'll be job losses at the club and, at a time when it really can't afford to do so, the local economy will take a huge kick in the nuts. Peter Coates will know that, ultimately, it's his dithering and misplaced faith in Mark Hughes that's caused that, but I can't help but feel sorry for him if that's how it ends.
I suspect that this season will be Peter Coates's last one as chairman. That might have been the plan all along, but the stress of this year will no doubt strengthen the decision, if indeed that's what has been decided . Despite the mistakes that have been made these last couple of years, and the complacency that's crept in, it'd be a shame given everything he has put into the club, and the fact that he does genuinely love Stoke City FC, if Peter Coates's last act, at 80-years-old, was to take us back into The Championship.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 4, 2018 0:10:24 GMT
The biggest most avoidable baffling silly error was keeping Hughes for so long. Last season was pretty crap following on from the deterioration in the second half of 2015/16. You couldn't call it a blip. Yet he couldn't see what was obvious to so many of us.... that Hughes had come to the end with SCFC.
Especially mystifying when he only has to look back to the late 80s when, on his watch, an identical scenario unfolded.
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Post by Parkhall Wanderer on Feb 4, 2018 0:12:26 GMT
Excellent post but we ain’t down yet. Back in 2008 I would have taken the 1 season we all thought we were going to have at the most after that 3-1 defeat at Bolton but to have enjoyed on the whole what we have had since then as not being bad. Let’s hope against hope that we somehow stay up for him.
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 4, 2018 0:15:54 GMT
Excellent post but we ain’t down yet. Back in 2008 I would have taken the 1 season we all thought we were going to have at the most after that 3-1 defeat at Bolton but to have enjoyed on the whole what we have had since then as not being bad. Let’s hope against hope that we somehow stay up for him. That's right there's a long way to go. Easy to forget that in the current depression. |
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 4, 2018 0:15:55 GMT
I know we can all point the finger and say he didn't invest enough in the summer (which is true) and that he kept faith with Hughes for too long (also true) but think of it this way: The man is 80-years-old, and all he wanted to do before he pops his clogs was establish us as a Premier League club. I suppose in some ways he's seen that happen- ten years is a decent stretch for a club like us, and the cup final, Europa League and 9th place finishes were all great, but he now faces the prospect of overseeing his beloved team end up back at the start again- the same position we were in when he took over, and deep down he'll know it's pretty much all his fault. That's quite a heavy burden to carry around with you at his age. I'm sure he envisaged it rather differently- an announcement that he was stepping down and handing control over to John with Stoke firmly ensconced in upper mid-table and plans for a statue of him to be unveiled somewhere in the bet365 stadium car park. He probably dreamt about 30,000 people singing his name as he waved farewell, having fully redeemed himself following the horrendous first spell he put us all through. Relegation changes all that though. There'll be acrimony and blame- ten years of good will wiped out in one season, and the distant past being dragged up by those who never truly forgave him for those awful years of the 80s and 90s. I genuinely think that in keeping faith with Hughes he was convinced his man would turn it around. I know it seems ridiculous now after some of the horrendous performances we witnessed as the Hughes-era played out its excruciating death throes, but Coatesy had clearly convinced himself that everything would be alright, as incorrect as that conviction turned out to be. It's going to devastate everyone if we go down. There'll be job losses at the club and, at a time when it really can't afford to do so, the local economy will take a huge kick in the nuts. Peter Coates will know that, ultimately, it's his dithering and misplaced faith in Mark Hughes that's caused that, but I can't help but feel sorry for him if that's how it ends. I suspect that this season will be Peter Coates's last one as chairman. That might have been the plan all along, but the stress of this year will no doubt strengthen the decision, if indeed that's what has been decided . Despite the mistakes that have been made these last couple of years, and the complacency that's crept in, it'd be a shame given everything he has put into the club, and the fact that he does genuinely love Stoke City FC, if Peter Coates's last act, at 80-years-old, was to take us back into The Championship. Truth hurts that's life this is self inflicted, he resorted to type. |
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 4, 2018 0:17:49 GMT
The biggest most avoidable baffling silly error was keeping Hughes for so long. Last season was pretty crap following on from the deterioration in the second half of 2015/16. You couldn't call it a blip. Yet he couldn't see what was obvious to so many of us.... that Hughes had come to the end with SCFC. Especially mystifying when he only has to look back to the late 80s when, on his watch, an identical scenario unfolded. Mark Hughes...a modern day Mick Mills! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 0:17:50 GMT
I know we can all point the finger and say he didn't invest enough in the summer (which is true) and that he kept faith with Hughes for too long (also true) but think of it this way: The man is 80-years-old, and all he wanted to do before he pops his clogs was establish us as a Premier League club. I suppose in some ways he's seen that happen- ten years is a decent stretch for a club like us, and the cup final, Europa League and 9th place finishes were all great, but he now faces the prospect of overseeing his beloved team end up back at the start again- the same position we were in when he took over, and deep down he'll know it's pretty much all his fault. That's quite a heavy burden to carry around with you at his age. I'm sure he envisaged it rather differently- an announcement that he was stepping down and handing control over to John with Stoke firmly ensconced in upper mid-table and plans for a statue of him to be unveiled somewhere in the bet365 stadium car park. He probably dreamt about 30,000 people singing his name as he waved farewell, having fully redeemed himself following the horrendous first spell he put us all through. Relegation changes all that though. There'll be acrimony and blame- ten years of good will wiped out in one season, and the distant past being dragged up by those who never truly forgave him for those awful years of the 80s and 90s. I genuinely think that in keeping faith with Hughes he was convinced his man would turn it around. I know it seems ridiculous now after some of the horrendous performances we witnessed as the Hughes-era played out its excruciating death throes, but Coatesy had clearly convinced himself that everything would be alright, as incorrect as that conviction turned out to be. It's going to devastate everyone if we go down. There'll be job losses at the club and, at a time when it really can't afford to do so, the local economy will take a huge kick in the nuts. Peter Coates will know that, ultimately, it's his dithering and misplaced faith in Mark Hughes that's caused that, but I can't help but feel sorry for him if that's how it ends. I suspect that this season will be Peter Coates's last one as chairman. That might have been the plan all along, but the stress of this year will no doubt strengthen the decision, if indeed that's what has been decided . Despite the mistakes that have been made these last couple of years, and the complacency that's crept in, it'd be a shame given everything he has put into the club, and the fact that he does genuinely love Stoke City FC, if Peter Coates's last act, at 80-years-old, was to take us back into The Championship. Truth hurts that's life this is self inflicted, he resorted to type. I find your posts to be unbelievably boring and repetitive. |
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 4, 2018 0:21:05 GMT
The biggest most avoidable baffling silly error was keeping Hughes for so long. Last season was pretty crap following on from the deterioration in the second half of 2015/16. You couldn't call it a blip. Yet he couldn't see what was obvious to so many of us.... that Hughes had come to the end with SCFC. Especially mystifying when he only has to look back to the late 80s when, on his watch, an identical scenario unfolded. Can't see what the fuss is about sums up his mind set, we will go down and Coates is a major part of the reason we will go down. |
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 4, 2018 0:21:59 GMT
Truth hurts that's life this is self inflicted, he resorted to type. I find your posts to be unbelievably boring and repetitive. Don't read them then  |
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Post by Parkhall Wanderer on Feb 4, 2018 0:22:15 GMT
Truth hurts that's life this is self inflicted, he resorted to type. I find your posts to be unbelievably boring and repetitive. Yes that’s what the toxic dustbin is like. Full of crap and full of his own self importance. If he had achieved a fraction of what Peter Coates had achieved then people might take more notice thankfully the majority on here have the same opinion of shit spreader. |
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Post by StatesideStokie on Feb 4, 2018 0:24:25 GMT
Excellent post but we ain’t down yet. Back in 2008 I would have taken the 1 season we all thought we were going to have at the most after that 3-1 defeat at Bolton but to have enjoyed on the whole what we have had since then as not being bad. Let’s hope against hope that we somehow stay up for him. That's right there's a long way to go. Easy to forget that in the current depression. It’s also easy to forget just how much money Coates has made available over the last 10 years or so. He’s coming in for far too much stick IMO, and some of that is purely down to a sense of entitlement that seems to be rampant amongst our fan base. |
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Post by onionman on Feb 4, 2018 0:39:02 GMT
The biggest most avoidable baffling silly error was keeping Hughes for so long. Last season was pretty crap following on from the deterioration in the second half of 2015/16. You couldn't call it a blip. Yet he couldn't see what was obvious to so many of us.... that Hughes had come to the end with SCFC. Especially mystifying when he only has to look back to the late 80s when, on his watch, an identical scenario unfolded. If anything he's handled this one even worse. Mills was sacked well before Christmas, which was too late. If he had sacked Hughes in November, after that West Ham match, it would still have been overdue - but it might not have been too late. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2018 0:44:00 GMT
As a fan you've just got to hope him and his son have learned from this.
None of the board come out of it with any credit if we stay up or go down.
There has to be serious structural changes to the club at the top.
Do they have clarity of thought to see that?
And if they do, have they got the bollocks to act on those hard truths?
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 4, 2018 0:46:34 GMT
The biggest most avoidable baffling silly error was keeping Hughes for so long. Last season was pretty crap following on from the deterioration in the second half of 2015/16. You couldn't call it a blip. Yet he couldn't see what was obvious to so many of us.... that Hughes had come to the end with SCFC. Especially mystifying when he only has to look back to the late 80s when, on his watch, an identical scenario unfolded. If anything he's handled this one even worse. Mills was sacked well before Christmas, which was too late. If he had sacked Hughes in November, after that West Ham match, it would still have been overdue - but it might not have been too late. Mills wasn't sacked too late. When Ball took over there were loads of points to play for. We won his first game and he said we'd reach the play offs!  |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Feb 4, 2018 0:48:34 GMT
Ultimately it's his train set for as long as he's at the helm.
It's a better 'journey' than any of the previous custodians.
Winds me up the call from folk who think they're qualified to run such an operation, asking for him to step aside.
Spent £25 odd million a week ago.
It's never enough for some fuckers.
Take a moment to look at where we are, squad full of internationals, Champions League winners...
If this needy and expectant attitude transfers to the ground we deserve to go down.
Too quick to rush to the 'blame' game...
I don't think we'll drop, but then what?
Who's 'fault' will that be?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2018 0:50:00 GMT
Ultimately it's his train set for as long as he's at the helm. It's a better 'journey' than any of the previous custodians. Winds me up the call from folk who think they're qualified to run such an operation, asking for him to step aside. Spent £25 odd million a week ago. It's never enough for some fuckers. Take a moment to look at where we are, squad full of internationals, Champions League winners... If this needy and expectant attitude transfers to the ground we deserve to go down. Too quit to rush to the 'blame' game... I don't think we'll drop, but then what? Who's 'fault' will that be? So they get away Scott free for being inept these last 2/3 seasons? Nah. |
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Feb 4, 2018 0:50:22 GMT
Stoke city are no longer needed by bet365 to grow their company.
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Post by prettything on Feb 4, 2018 0:56:48 GMT
First things first. We ain’t down yet.
During the dark times in the 90s, he failed in his duty as a chairman of a football club . Owning a football club, ones duty is to provide a financial base, and select the right personnel to be successful on a football field. He failed on every count. He realised this duty, and sold up to the Icelandic consortium. A bit too late, but nether the less, that decision got us out of the third tier.
It’s important to understand why people of wealth choose to own a football club. There are many reasons. For some it’s status, others a chance to make money. Back in the old days it was linked to the local economy, who in turn, provided employment to the local area.
The season we went up, he made the correct decisions, provided the backing, and everything clicked.
The following seasons, he backed the manager, realised what was needed to progress the club and stability was achieved.
It was at this point, that once the training facilities were built, the scouting network had been improved and the academy was sufficiently invested in, financial sustainability could be achieved.
That was his first mistake.
Sustainability depends on the size of the football club and what they want to achieve. For Chelsea, sustainability means they will remain a top four side without being able to compete with the elite . For us, sustainability and spending within our means, meant flirting with relegation with the hope of staying up.
That is not a stable model. Not with football .His duty is to either carry on running our football club, by spending and losing money, to progress and improve us.Or stepping down, sell the club to somebody who is willing to invest, and more importantly, willing to lose his investment, and as a result to improve us , more than his predecessor.
Football ownership should not be about business, if anything it’s about arrogance, pride and love for the city .
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Feb 4, 2018 1:10:46 GMT
Ultimately it's his train set for as long as he's at the helm. It's a better 'journey' than any of the previous custodians. Winds me up the call from folk who think they're qualified to run such an operation, asking for him to step aside. Spent £25 odd million a week ago. It's never enough for some fuckers. Take a moment to look at where we are, squad full of internationals, Champions League winners... If this needy and expectant attitude transfers to the ground we deserve to go down. Too quit to rush to the 'blame' game... I don't think we'll drop, but then what? Who's 'fault' will that be? So they get away Scott free for being inept these last 2/3 seasons? Nah. Not sure I'd agree with your definition of inept. I don't think when discussing our 'situation' you have any grasp of the wider context. Nor real life issues. Nowt so cut and dried. What you gonna do about it? How do you think they should be held accountable... especially for something that hasn't actually happened just yet. They've had a plan of integrating the Academy to achieve a degree ofd self sufficiency {albeit in the face of the general football financial lunacy}, maybe partly to secure our longer term future. They have every right to do that. I respect and support that. |
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 4, 2018 1:15:30 GMT
I know we can all point the finger and say he didn't invest enough in the summer (which is true) and that he kept faith with Hughes for too long (also true) but think of it this way: The man is 80-years-old, and all he wanted to do before he pops his clogs was establish us as a Premier League club. I suppose in some ways he's seen that happen- ten years is a decent stretch for a club like us, and the cup final, Europa League and 9th place finishes were all great, but he now faces the prospect of overseeing his beloved team end up back at the start again- the same position we were in when he took over, and deep down he'll know it's pretty much all his fault. That's quite a heavy burden to carry around with you at his age. I'm sure he envisaged it rather differently- an announcement that he was stepping down and handing control over to John with Stoke firmly ensconced in upper mid-table and plans for a statue of him to be unveiled somewhere in the bet365 stadium car park. He probably dreamt about 30,000 people singing his name as he waved farewell, having fully redeemed himself following the horrendous first spell he put us all through. Relegation changes all that though. There'll be acrimony and blame- ten years of good will wiped out in one season, and the distant past being dragged up by those who never truly forgave him for those awful years of the 80s and 90s. I genuinely think that in keeping faith with Hughes he was convinced his man would turn it around. I know it seems ridiculous now after some of the horrendous performances we witnessed as the Hughes-era played out its excruciating death throes, but Coatesy had clearly convinced himself that everything would be alright, as incorrect as that conviction turned out to be. It's going to devastate everyone if we go down. There'll be job losses at the club and, at a time when it really can't afford to do so, the local economy will take a huge kick in the nuts. Peter Coates will know that, ultimately, it's his dithering and misplaced faith in Mark Hughes that's caused that, but I can't help but feel sorry for him if that's how it ends. I suspect that this season will be Peter Coates's last one as chairman. That might have been the plan all along, but the stress of this year will no doubt strengthen the decision, if indeed that's what has been decided . Despite the mistakes that have been made these last couple of years, and the complacency that's crept in, it'd be a shame given everything he has put into the club, and the fact that he does genuinely love Stoke City FC, if Peter Coates's last act, at 80-years-old, was to take us back into The Championship. £@#&!n’e!!, You don’t half go on... |
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 4, 2018 1:16:26 GMT
First things first. We ain’t down yet. During the dark times in the 90s, he failed in his duty as a chairman of a football club . Owning a football club, ones duty is to provide a financial base, and select the right personnel to be successful on a football field. He failed on every count. He realised this duty, and sold up to the Icelandic consortium. A bit too late, but nether the less, that decision got us out of the third tier. It’s important to understand why people of wealth choose to own a football club. There are many reasons. For some it’s status, others a chance to make money. Back in the old days it was linked to the local economy, who in turn, provided employment to the local area. The season we went up, he made the correct decisions, provided the backing, and everything clicked. The following seasons, he backed the manager, realised what was needed to progress the club and stability was achieved. It was at this point, that once the training facilities were built, the scouting network had been improved and the academy was sufficiently invested in, financial sustainability could be achieved. That was his first mistake. Sustainability depends on the size of the football club and what they want to achieve. For Chelsea, sustainability means they will remain a top four side without being able to compete with the elite . For us, sustainability and spending within our means, meant flirting with relegation with the hope of staying up. That is not a stable model. Not with football .His duty is to either carry on running our football club, by spending and losing money, to progress and improve us.Or stepping down, sell the club to somebody who is willing to invest, and more importantly, willing to lose his investment, and as a result to improve us , more than his predecessor. Football ownership should not be about business, if anything it’s about arrogance, pride and love for the city . And you! |
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Post by prettything on Feb 4, 2018 1:18:59 GMT
?
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Post by onionman on Feb 4, 2018 1:20:19 GMT
If anything he's handled this one even worse. Mills was sacked well before Christmas, which was too late. If he had sacked Hughes in November, after that West Ham match, it would still have been overdue - but it might not have been too late. Mills wasn't sacked too late. When Ball took over there were loads of points to play for. We won his first game and he said we'd reach the play offs! It was too late, because Mills had already driven the bus over the cliff by about October. He'd spent the money building a woefully inadequate team, and the sale of Beagrie was always going to push us over the edge. Bally's play-offs quote is a red herring because it was basically just a daft remark to excite the fans. The difference this time is that we actually had a chance if we had sacked Hughes early enough. A new manager in November would have been able to arrest the slide, and identify the players we needed in January. There are a lot of crap teams in this division and it would have only taken a small improvement to lift us above seven or eight of them. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 4, 2018 1:23:35 GMT
Mills wasn't sacked too late. When Ball took over there were loads of points to play for. We won his first game and he said we'd reach the play offs! It was too late, because Mills had already driven the bus over the cliff by about October. He'd spent the money building a woefully inadequate team, and the sale of Beagrie was always going to push us over the edge. Bally's play-offs quote is a red herring because it was basically just a daft remark to excite the fans. The difference this time is that we actually had a chance if we had sacked Hughes early enough. A new manager in November would have been able to arrest the slide, and identify the players we needed in January. There are a lot of crap teams in this division and it would have only taken a small improvement to lift us above seven or eight of them. If we hadn't made the lazy decision to appoint ball survival would have been easily achievable. |
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Post by blackpoolred on Feb 4, 2018 1:28:41 GMT
Will the Coates family really lose any sleep if we get relegated - financially they could cash in by selling all their players(should we get relegated) get the wage bill down and press the reset button and would probably still be getting close to full attendances in the championship. Would make really good sense financially and business wise - after all it is a business and we are essentially ran by business people
Have they employed a man who was possibly designed for managing us in the championship next year?
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 4, 2018 1:30:16 GMT
It was too late, because Mills had already driven the bus over the cliff by about October. He'd spent the money building a woefully inadequate team, and the sale of Beagrie was always going to push us over the edge. Bally's play-offs quote is a red herring because it was basically just a daft remark to excite the fans. The difference this time is that we actually had a chance if we had sacked Hughes early enough. A new manager in November would have been able to arrest the slide, and identify the players we needed in January. There are a lot of crap teams in this division and it would have only taken a small improvement to lift us above seven or eight of them. If we hadn't made the lazy decision to appoint ball survival would have been easily achievable. I’ve read it a few times & none the wiser |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2018 1:32:54 GMT
So they get away Scott free for being inept these last 2/3 seasons? Nah. Not sure I'd agree with your definition of inept. I don't think when discussing our 'situation' you have any grasp of the wider context. Nor real life issues. Nowt so cut and dried. What you gonna do about it? How do you think they should be held accountable... especially for something that hasn't actually happened just yet. They've had a plan of integrating the Academy to achieve a degree ofd self sufficiency {albeit in the face of the general football financial lunacy}, maybe partly to secure our longer term future. They have every right to do that. I respect and support that. The club is rotten to the core. Relegation is irrelevant. |
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Post by onionman on Feb 4, 2018 1:36:15 GMT
It was too late, because Mills had already driven the bus over the cliff by about October. He'd spent the money building a woefully inadequate team, and the sale of Beagrie was always going to push us over the edge. Bally's play-offs quote is a red herring because it was basically just a daft remark to excite the fans. The difference this time is that we actually had a chance if we had sacked Hughes early enough. A new manager in November would have been able to arrest the slide, and identify the players we needed in January. There are a lot of crap teams in this division and it would have only taken a small improvement to lift us above seven or eight of them. If we hadn't made the lazy decision to appoint ball survival would have been easily achievable. I'll go with your memory of the Mills/Ball era over mine, as I was young and naive. Where do you think Lambert fits into this? Is he a lazy Bally type appointment? Would he have more chance if we was appointed in October? |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Feb 4, 2018 1:39:58 GMT
Not sure I'd agree with your definition of inept. I don't think when discussing our 'situation' you have any grasp of the wider context. Nor real life issues. Nowt so cut and dried. What you gonna do about it? How do you think they should be held accountable... especially for something that hasn't actually happened just yet. They've had a plan of integrating the Academy to achieve a degree ofd self sufficiency {albeit in the face of the general football financial lunacy}, maybe partly to secure our longer term future. They have every right to do that. I respect and support that. The club is rotten to the core. Relegation is irrelevant. I'm obviously not as close to it as you, from where I am I don't smell the rottenness at all. Blip in the plan that has pretty much been addressed in this window. Re set the course etc. Stand alone I reckon we're a well run Club {with a touch of old school values}, compare us to the rest of the basket cases in the Prem and we're positively golden. Even Southampton with their well lauded model are having it tough. Can't see any ownership or board level shake up having any improving impact, especially not now. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 4, 2018 1:41:08 GMT
The club is rotten to the core. Relegation is irrelevant. I'm obviously not as close to it as you, from where I am I don't smell the rottenness at all. Blip in the plan that has pretty much been addressed in this window. Re set the course etc. Stand alone I reckon we're a well run Club {with a touch of old school values}, compare us to the rest of the basket cases in the Prem and we're positively golden. Even Southampton with their well lauded model are having it tough. Can't see any ownership or board level shake up having any improving impact, especially not now. A blip? You're mental. |
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