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Post by ted1965 on Jan 16, 2018 10:43:00 GMT
Okay last night showed some promise but we now need some decisive action from those who have made their managerial choice and claim he impressed them so much he came from nowhere to once more become a Premier League manager. I won’t or can’t pretend he would have been on any list I drew up but here we are and we have to make the best of it.
Within a few days we have apparently if the media and released stories can be believed gone from a 5 year plan with substantial funds to Paul Lambert. I am now very sceptical that we were seriously intending to back QSF with such amounts of money and if the board refuse to back their chosen man then supporters will not forgive this time Mr Coates your legacy which is great second time around will be in tatters. If you allow this shambles of a backroom set up to sleepwalk us into the wilderness again. Paul Lambert needs to be back with substantial funds, we need at least 4 or 5 quality additions to the squad to give the players some confidence, the players we have are good but they are shot and some new faces with real quality would allow them to lift their games again.
If the new manager is told you need to scrape together a couple of loans and here’s 8 million see who you can get to come then it’s obvious to anyone but the blind that you once more are playing with supporters hopes and dreams. I know it may even work and we might scramble out of the drop zone but any pretence that we have ambition will be gone forever. We as supporters have lived through the wilderness years and the years when hope sprung eternal only for it to be dashed in sight of success. Peter Coates has been responsible for some of the best years and lest we not forget some of the most agonizing stomach churning seasons ever. The last decade has been amazing and he has much credit in the bank but if you fail to back Lambert after choosing him that credit will count for every little in my opinion. Yes I know we may will be relegated irrespective of funds being released but at least the supporters will know you tried and that buys everyone time to rebuild.
I can’t imagine another 20 plus years bobbing around in the wilderness hearing other supporters reminding me I remember when they were good. We have a decent squad but it lacks certain elements and I pray you are in control enough to give the new manager enough support to at least give it a good go.
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Post by ohbottom on Jan 16, 2018 11:01:56 GMT
I agree with the OP sentiment and I think we all know what we need, but it's a lot easier said than done. There's only 2 weeks to find genuine premier league quality players who are available and will come straight in to the team and improve us. We don't want mercenaries who will use our situation to screw a last bumper pay-day out of us but won't be up for the fight (like when a desperate Derby bought Robbie Savage for instance). I think Lambert will do well to find 2 decent additions. At least Bauer seems to have plugged one gap.
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Post by flea79 on Jan 16, 2018 11:14:39 GMT
I genuinely fear that a certain goalkeeper will be sold to fund new players
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jan 16, 2018 11:14:43 GMT
Ted, where was the promise last night? Was it because we only lost 3-0? I saw no promise in Darren Fletcher trotting around like an old man, or Stephen Ireland running out of steam and playing his first 90 minutes in the Premiership for two years? Or was it being reminded how crap Wimmer is, or how little Zouma seems to care? Or did you see promise in playing Peter Crouch up front and feeling proud that he's the slowest and oldest striker in the division. Sorry if I seem to be having a go, I'm not. But, if anything, last night showed how desperately poor we are and we have little time to sort things out. There's no time for too many new players, so the couple or three we bring in need to add some vitality and dynamism where it's lacking. We certainly look like one of the worst three teams at the moment but we still have a chance. Three wins in the next six games would be a good place to start.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jan 16, 2018 11:15:57 GMT
I genuinely fear that a certain goalkeeper will be sold to fund new players If that happened Flea and we had Grant in for the rest of the season, then I think we're doomed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 11:18:14 GMT
Could the two be linked?
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Post by flea79 on Jan 16, 2018 11:19:42 GMT
I genuinely fear that a certain goalkeeper will be sold to fund new players If that happened Flea and we had Grant in for the rest of the season, then I think we're doomed. I think Coates Is furious that we forced his hand over Hughes and he had to open his wallet and pay him and his staff off, hence the cheap uninspiring option that we now have, no funds to be available other than what can be made in sales, and even then I don't see him giving him the whole lot if a big sale was agreed |
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 16, 2018 11:31:49 GMT
If that happened Flea and we had Grant in for the rest of the season, then I think we're doomed. I think Coates Is furious that we forced his hand over Hughes and he had to open his wallet and pay him and his staff off, hence the cheap uninspiring option that we now have, no funds to be available other than what can be made in sales, and even then I don't see him giving him the whole lot if a big sale was agreed I think Julius Caesar is my Auntie. Does that make it true? Am I a celebrity at last? |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 16, 2018 11:32:24 GMT
It will be starvation rations,just enough to keep you alive,but not flourish.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 16, 2018 11:38:23 GMT
Ted, where was the promise last night? Was it because we only lost 3-0? I saw no promise in Darren Fletcher trotting around like an old man, or Stephen Ireland running out of steam and playing his first 90 minutes in the Premiership for two years? Or was it being reminded how crap Wimmer is, or how little Zouma seems to care? Or did you see promise in playing Peter Crouch up front and feeling proud that he's the slowest and oldest striker in the division. Sorry if I seem to be having a go, I'm not. But, if anything, last night showed how desperately poor we are and we have little time to sort things out. There's no time for too many new players, so the couple or three we bring in need to add some vitality and dynamism where it's lacking. We certainly look like one of the worst three teams at the moment but we still have a chance. Three wins in the next six games would be a good place to start. Despite all of that we played well first half. 2nd half less so I grant you. |
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jan 16, 2018 11:58:08 GMT
Ted, where was the promise last night? Was it because we only lost 3-0? I saw no promise in Darren Fletcher trotting around like an old man, or Stephen Ireland running out of steam and playing his first 90 minutes in the Premiership for two years? Or was it being reminded how crap Wimmer is, or how little Zouma seems to care? Or did you see promise in playing Peter Crouch up front and feeling proud that he's the slowest and oldest striker in the division. Sorry if I seem to be having a go, I'm not. But, if anything, last night showed how desperately poor we are and we have little time to sort things out. There's no time for too many new players, so the couple or three we bring in need to add some vitality and dynamism where it's lacking. We certainly look like one of the worst three teams at the moment but we still have a chance. Three wins in the next six games would be a good place to start. Despite all of that we played well first half. 2nd half less so I grant you. Dave, to an extent yes, but we still lost 3-0. We could have had a goal perhaps, but they could have had more. At the end we couldn't get hold of the ball because we had no legs in midfield, no pace up front other than Diouf and no options to bring another midfielder on because we'd used up our first sub when taking Tymon off. At the moment we don't have the team to grind out a 0-0 against someone like United when the chips are down. I know that's not an easy task but with our squad and the players available it was never going to happen. However, it's the games ahead that have greater significance but I'm just not sure our options will see us through. let's keep our fingers crossed that we bring a few in. |
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jan 16, 2018 11:58:43 GMT
Of course, but it shows the dearth of options. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 16, 2018 12:09:43 GMT
If that happened Flea and we had Grant in for the rest of the season, then I think we're doomed. I think Coates Is furious that we forced his hand over Hughes and he had to open his wallet and pay him and his staff off, hence the cheap uninspiring option that we now have, no funds to be available other than what can be made in sales, and even then I don't see him giving him the whole lot if a big sale was agreed I don't think we forced Peter's hand over Hughes, if he factored in what the fans thought in his decision making, then he wouldn't have brought TP back for his second stint and he most certainly wouldn't have employed Paul Lambert. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 12:10:26 GMT
I think Coates Is furious that we forced his hand over Hughes and he had to open his wallet and pay him and his staff off, hence the cheap uninspiring option that we now have, no funds to be available other than what can be made in sales, and even then I don't see him giving him the whole lot if a big sale was agreed I think Julius Caesar is my Auntie. Does that make it true? Am I a celebrity at last? et tu brute  |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 16, 2018 12:11:41 GMT
Despite all of that we played well first half. 2nd half less so I grant you. Dave, to an extent yes, but we still lost 3-0. We could have had a goal perhaps, but they could have had more. At the end we couldn't get hold of the ball because we had no legs in midfield, no pace up front other than Diouf and no options to bring another midfielder on because we'd used up our first sub when taking Tymon off. At the moment we don't have the team to grind out a 0-0 against someone like United when the chips are down. I know that's not an easy task but with our squad and the players available it was never going to happen. However, it's the games ahead that have greater significance but I'm just not sure our options will see us through. let's keep our fingers crossed that we bring a few in. Over 90 minutes yes but first half was very even and we created 5 brilliant chances whilst they picked out the top corner twice from 2 shots. To put it into some perspective in recent games v Burnley and Southampton they had 33 and 37 shots respectively and had the princely sum of 2 goals to show for it. We are a bad mix of being crap and unlucky. 2nd half was a stroll and butland kept it respectable. |
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Post by flea79 on Jan 16, 2018 12:12:27 GMT
I think Coates Is furious that we forced his hand over Hughes and he had to open his wallet and pay him and his staff off, hence the cheap uninspiring option that we now have, no funds to be available other than what can be made in sales, and even then I don't see him giving him the whole lot if a big sale was agreed I don't think we forced Peter's hand over Hughes, if he factored in what the fans thought in his decision making, then he wouldn't have brought TP back for his second stint and he most certainly wouldn't have employed Paul Lambert. maybe your right but season ticket sales were down at the end of Pulis's last season with us, can you imagine how bad it would have gone had Hughes stayed with the discontent and how many tickets would have been sold, as for Lambert I don't have a clue what he is playing at, maybe PL is a tactical genius disguised a dour Scotsman but I don't see it |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 12:41:14 GMT
Their main man was Quique and it seems they U-turned on backing him before he’d even signed on the dotted line
Consequences shmonsequences
Good luck Paul
By the end of your contract you’ll probably realise you’ll have spent next to fuck all.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 16, 2018 12:41:14 GMT
Lambert has a key quality the others don’t , he isn’t too strong in his start position to start dictating terms , he fits the scholes and Cartwright model perfectly , grateful to be In work at this level and anything else is a bonus , the other three all wanted full back room staff , and would be demanding policy change , this is clearly the route of least resistance amd minimal change
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jan 16, 2018 12:43:02 GMT
to be honest I'm not sure it is actual quality we need but character fitness and organisation .
Character
At the end of last season we saw two stalwarts leave the club in SJW and Whelan and it was time to replace thewm , we also lost a player with character in Bardsley , one which I will never understand.
All of these players were tough characters who knew how to manage games professionally would have been strong in the dressing room and demanding of team mates . Whelan and Walters had also been here for a long time and were I imagine seen as senior pros and commanded respect.
Looking at the likes of Fletcher and Choupo last night they were just way off the mark , Choupo was pathetic , no effort whatsoever and Fletcher did better than usual for an hour and was then finished.
Decent aggressive championship level players could sort these issues out and help Lambert to get more from the creative players , we do have . talent that is the most frustrating thing its getting the talent to deliver thats so difficult.
Fitness
This has always been an issue for me in the Hughes era and we have got progressively worse in the last couple of years as other teams have improved their levels and energy . Last night Bauer was clearly fitter than any other Stoke player , that is the level they should all be at at least all of those under 30 ( another problem ) , Hopefully as with West Ham a change of manager can bring up fitness levels especially has we have potentially two free weeks where he could take them away
Organisation
Blindingly obvious I would hope but we have gone from a manager who relied too much on shape and organisation to one who seemed not to care enough . Lambert is apparently a grafter who will organise the team and this alone will make a difference, we should concede less even with the players we have and might get central defenders scoring a few more from set plays which they should when Shaq or Adam are on free kicks and corners .
We certainly need new players but these are the priorties that I see.
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Post by Davef on Jan 16, 2018 12:46:14 GMT
Lambert has a key quality the others don’t , he isn’t too strong in his start position to start dictating terms , he fits the scholes and Cartwright model perfectly , grateful to be In work at this level and anything else is a bonus , the other three all wanted full back room staff , and would be demanding policy change , this is clearly the route of least resistance amd minimal change Change the record. The Coates family are responsible for the managerial appointment and the continued employment of those two. |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jan 16, 2018 12:46:35 GMT
Of course, but it shows the dearth of options. Odd that Adam has been easily our best player in midfield recently and didnt get on I thought . not saying he is the answer but once fletcher and Ireland were flagging he might have come on |
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 16, 2018 13:15:56 GMT
Of course, but it shows the dearth of options. Odd that Adam has been easily our best player in midfield recently and didnt get on I thought . not saying he is the answer but once fletcher and Ireland were flagging he might have come on I think he was going to but we had to waste a sub taking the left back out the firing line |
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Post by emmbrook1956 on Jan 16, 2018 13:24:55 GMT
Ted, where was the promise last night? Was it because we only lost 3-0? I saw no promise in Darren Fletcher trotting around like an old man, or Stephen Ireland running out of steam and playing his first 90 minutes in the Premiership for two years? Or was it being reminded how crap Wimmer is, or how little Zouma seems to care? Or did you see promise in playing Peter Crouch up front and feeling proud that he's the slowest and oldest striker in the division. Sorry if I seem to be having a go, I'm not. But, if anything, last night showed how desperately poor we are and we have little time to sort things out. There's no time for too many new players, so the couple or three we bring in need to add some vitality and dynamism where it's lacking. We certainly look like one of the worst three teams at the moment but we still have a chance. Three wins in the next six games would be a good place to start. The promise was that in the first half we should have scored 2 goals through Ireland and Zouma's effort from Crouchie's knock down was blocked. Ireland got that space in the first half because Jones and Smalling were very conscious of the aerial threat of Crouch And Pogba was playing a much more forward role. Yes I agree Crouch is slow. What cost us the 3 goals was poor control by Tymon for the 1st goal, Shaqiri not tracking back for the second goal, Ireland ran past him trying to get to Pogba. Also giving the ball away cheaply I think for each goal! THe second half I thought that Shaqiri was helping more defensively which was a good sign. Wimmer for me is out of his depth. How he turns away when somebody is about to shoot, I will never know. How Lukaku was allowed to turn and get a sot away when he had the attention of both Zouma and Wimmer is poor. We must do better there! I thought Bauer did well last night. He is certainly quick! I am of the view view that we have 15 Cup Finals now and we must get 3 wins in the next 6 as you say and pick up points on the road starting preferably at Bournemouth. |
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 16, 2018 13:35:05 GMT
I genuinely fear that a certain goalkeeper will be sold to fund new players If that happened Flea and we had Grant in for the rest of the season, then I think we're doomed. By his high standards Jack has been average. If we got a decent replacement in and spent the rest on positions that need strengthening I wouldn’t be totally against it if we got 35-40m |
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Post by cousindupree on Jan 16, 2018 14:25:51 GMT
Unless we sell one of our prized assets then under the self sufficiency strategy adopted by the club then Lambert will have to look at freebies and/or loan signings. We have already got close to our budget with Bauer and compo paid to Hughes and his staff.
Lambert will have been aware of this when he signed. Mind you I bet he still can't believe his luck that he is managing in the Prem again.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 16, 2018 14:38:27 GMT
I genuinely fear that a certain goalkeeper will be sold to fund new players If we get 30million and its definitely all going to be used on players then fine. History suggests it wont. |
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 16, 2018 14:39:46 GMT
If that happened Flea and we had Grant in for the rest of the season, then I think we're doomed. By his high standards Jack has been average. If we got a decent replacement in and spent the rest on positions that need strengthening I wouldn’t be totally against it if we got 35-40m This. Butland ain't as good as he/Stoke think he is. 30million and he can go. |
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Post by fraybentos on Jan 16, 2018 15:38:19 GMT
By his high standards Jack has been average. If we got a decent replacement in and spent the rest on positions that need strengthening I wouldn’t be totally against it if we got 35-40m This. Butland ain't as good as he/Stoke think he is. 30million and he can go. We have to pay Birmingham a percentage |
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 16, 2018 15:39:39 GMT
This. Butland ain't as good as he/Stoke think he is. 30million and he can go. We have to pay Birmingham a percentage 35million then? |
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