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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jan 7, 2018 16:22:57 GMT
He’s never been a good captain. His head is the first to drop when the opposition score. He’s never been a leader, Huth, Faye, Higgy were the leaders and Whelan to an extent. I'm sure there was an interview with TP when he was asked about Ryan and the captaincy. TP praised him but I remember he did slip in that Huth was relatively quite quiet on the pitch. I always wondered why he said that. Like Ryan was his second choice. New Gaffer, (possibly) new skipper surely. Personally I think there'll be enough upheaval mid season, with a new manager and coaches coming in when we're dipping our toes into the Championship to add the armband to the mix.
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Post by chayzenbacon on Jan 7, 2018 16:25:54 GMT
Yes, because as good a player and captain as Ryan has been the club captain should be someone who is pretty much ever present. Sadly Ryan is never going to be ever present again due to his fitness issues. Same goes for Charlie.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 7, 2018 16:31:27 GMT
People don’t watch Ryan. He’s an excellent captain and always has been. He rallies, he bollocks, he cajoles, he organises, he tells people who to mark and where to stand, he shies away from nothing, he makes sure the hatches are battened down when the team is getting st
People are so entrenched that they’re convinced he doesn’t do any of the things he actually does and always has done.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jan 7, 2018 16:31:38 GMT
The criticism that gets aimed at Shawcross genuinely baffles me. We saw against Newcastle that Zouma has only looked any good because he's had Shawcross holding his hand for most of the season. When the crowd go quiet, you can hear Shawcross constantly trying to organise the defence and midfield; in Hughes' first season he was practically coaching Cameron through games at right back. More to the point, he typifies the sort of club that I would like us to be presented as, and he's an admirable figurehead.
Ryan is our best centre back, and should be captain until he leaves. There's no case for a change whatsoever. We need to be shipping out the Berahinos, Wimmers and Shaqiris, not the Ryan Shawcrosses.
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Post by thehoof on Jan 7, 2018 16:48:31 GMT
We definitely DO The games where Fletch was captain at the begining if the season we looked better organised and there was leadership. Against, West Ham I spent the last 5 minutes down the front on the steps behind the goal. To grab a closer look at what was going on and what I saw was embarassing. We hhad put it a shit poor performabce. We just goy calved open again and Ryan was standing on the edge of the 6yard box half arsed clapping. Not motivating not bollocking that was left for Butland and (I think it was Adam) to do. Shawcross looked lost. Looked a 16 yesr old making his first appearance in a mans game. Hes not one of our best 2 CBs either so probably shouldnt be playing when Zoum and BMI are fit BMI has been fucking shit when he's played- he came back carrying a stone more than when he was here last season- if it had been Adam we'd have gone mad! You remember the first goal against Chelsea at home when the only centre half we had was BMI? Don't you think it might have been his job as the Centr Half to pick up Morata, rather than leaving it to Glen Johnson- Zouma has pace but no positional sense at all.
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 7, 2018 16:53:03 GMT
We don’t have a natural leader who’s good enough to be in the first 11. Ryan rather than trying to get some fight just puts his head down and doesn’t communicate. I would go with Adam as CK ub captain. Fletcher would be excellent as a skipper but has been shocking lately so leaves us with Jack for me. Or even better get someone in. If your going on form Cobham then Butland as team captain is questionable.
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 7, 2018 17:00:47 GMT
For whatever reasons, I don't think Shawcross is the player he was. My honest opinion is that he was maybe given the captaincy to prevent him moving on. There seems to be no leadership on the field but having said that how can a captain who has been performing well under par, go around bollocking players to get their act together. As to who should be given the armband, I really don't know. I can't see any candidates amongst the players we have and maybe we need to bring in a player with true leadership credentials. Here's hoping. Shawcross is very vocal on the field,i don't know where the myth that he is quiet and doesn't lead comes from.Also you should be aware that club captain is a different role to team captain which i guess is what you want to change despite the thread title.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 17:03:00 GMT
People don’t watch Ryan. He’s an excellent captain and always has been. He rallies, he bollocks, he cajoles, he organises, he tells people who to mark and where to stand, he shies away from nothing, he makes sure the hatches are battened down when the team is getting st People are so entrenched that they’re convinced he doesn’t do any of the things he actually does and always has done. I’ve paid close attention to his leadership and he rarely shows any of that. Watch back most of our conceded goals and see his reaction. Most conceded goals in the league and in most top flight leagues, hes really battening down those hatches. He hasn’t got a bollocking in him. Even at ours and his best he’s never been a good captain, the leaders went a while back, he isn’t one of them.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 7, 2018 17:13:24 GMT
People don’t watch Ryan. He’s an excellent captain and always has been. He rallies, he bollocks, he cajoles, he organises, he tells people who to mark and where to stand, he shies away from nothing, he makes sure the hatches are battened down when the team is getting st People are so entrenched that they’re convinced he doesn’t do any of the things he actually does and always has done. I’ve paid close attention to his leadership and he rarely shows any of that. Watch back most of our conceded goals and see his reaction. Most conceded goals in the league and in most top flight leagues, hes really battening down those hatches. He hasn’t got a bollocking in him. Even at ours and his best he’s never been a good captain, the leaders went a while back, he isn’t one of them. He’s constantly shown it over the last decade. You don’t have to demonstratively have a shit fit after every single goal conceded to be a good captain - that’s as ridiculous as the people who lost their shit over Hughes not kicking every ball on the touchline. On the pitch Shawcross is constantly talking, pointing, organising. When Cameron was at right back he was constantly telling him where to position himself. He’d do likewise with the likes of Wilson and Wollscheid.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 18:21:52 GMT
I agree that Shawcross barks out instructions at corners and during play to his co defenders - whether he is good at it is debatable if you look at our goals against stats!
He is not not going to regain his best form "for whatever reason" but because his body can no longer hold up to the years of self inflicted - it was very effective at times and very unselfish, but it hasn't been effective for a while.
He sets a very poor example through his many needless fouls, which expose us and cost us goals virtually every time he plays.
I don't think he was given the captaincy as a way of keeping him here; he got the job at 22, and it was possibly one of Pulis' most inspired decisions, at least while Ryan was fully fit and teams had not yet discovered his many defensive weaknesses.
I think he can still do a job for us, especially if we go down, but he is not going to be automatic first choice, and so he shouldn't be captain anymore.
I always thought Whelan was the real captain on the pitch, as his mouth and body language was leading the team non-stop. We lost more than a man's tired legs, when he moved on, and despite Hughes' assessment that others would emerge as leaders, they simply haven't.
We don't have a plausible replacement. Adam has started three games this season - enough said. Moreover he wants to leave.
Fletcher is maybe a leader by example, but we need vocal leaders. His form has also just been too poor to have gained the squad's respect.
Butland was never that good at organising defences, he's also been injured a lot, and his time here is not long.
It's been suggested seversl times through the years that we should sign Cattermole, I've always thought hell no, and now he's too old to have a future. But obviously he did have leadership qualities.
We need to sign at least a couple of players with leadership qualities as one of the features to look for. Cairney could be one.
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Post by thegift on Jan 7, 2018 18:40:45 GMT
My reasons are that he's a fine captain and when fit is one of our most important players. There's far more to captaincy than shouting at people on the pitch too. He does organise, he communicates from the back and pushes forward himself to lift the crowd on occasion. There have been many quotes where Ryan stays late after training to do more, he's worked with young Souttar for extra drills. He breeds that work ethic. Also, to bring back an old example from Hughes' first pre season... Hughes hooked Nzonzi after 45 mins, and he stormed off to the changing room. Hughes was going to go and tear his head off, but Ryan took him to one side and explained how best to work with Nzonzi. Hughes took the advice, changed his approach. Nzonzi went on to be our best player for the next 2 years. It's stuff like that you don't see with shouting and clapping on the pitch. So no, I don't think we need a new captain to be honest. I think we need a back 4, a fit captain and a settled side with a clear system and plan. Whilst i understand what your saying Jase, none of us see this go on, people can only base on opinion on what they have seen, therefore for me, we need a new club captain.
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Post by thegift on Jan 7, 2018 18:46:03 GMT
We don’t have a natural leader who’s good enough to be in the first 11. Ryan rather than trying to get some fight just puts his head down and doesn’t communicate. I would go with Adam as CK ub captain. Fletcher would be excellent as a skipper but has been shocking lately so leaves us with Jack for me. Or even better get someone in. If your going on form Cobham then Butland as team captain is questionable. Butland is certainly not the person to give the captaincy too.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 7, 2018 18:55:06 GMT
Yes. I believe it might do Ryan a favour if someone else was captain and he could concentrate on his own game which has deteriorated, understandably since the back trouble.
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Post by bangorstokie on Jan 7, 2018 20:04:28 GMT
For whatever reasons, I don't think Shawcross is the player he was. My honest opinion is that he was maybe given the captaincy to prevent him moving on. There seems to be no leadership on the field but having said that how can a captain who has been performing well under par, go around bollocking players to get their act together. As to who should be given the armband, I really don't know. I can't see any candidates amongst the players we have and maybe we need to bring in a player with true leadership credentials. Here's hoping. Shawcross is very vocal on the field,i don't know where the myth that he is quiet and doesn't lead comes from.Also you should be aware that club captain is a different role to team captain which i guess is what you want to change despite the thread title. Can you explain the difference between club captain and team captain? I didn't know we had two captains at the club.
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Post by exiledpotter on Jan 7, 2018 20:18:44 GMT
Yes, so Ryan can concentrate on (and get back to) doing his job excellently. That said, in the club's current circumstances the new manager can see who does what in training and pick whoever he wants to lead the fight. All we can do is back whoever is chosen.
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Post by jarvinski on Jan 7, 2018 20:30:24 GMT
Charlie Adam, one of the very few who care
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Post by jarvinski on Jan 7, 2018 20:30:40 GMT
Charlie Adam, one of the very few who care
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 7, 2018 21:20:08 GMT
Shawcross is very vocal on the field,i don't know where the myth that he is quiet and doesn't lead comes from.Also you should be aware that club captain is a different role to team captain which i guess is what you want to change despite the thread title. Can you explain the difference between club captain and team captain? I didn't know we had two captains at the club. The team captain is the player who is present at kick off for the coin toss and is sometimes called by the ref to pass on messages to his team mates. The club captain doesn't have to be present at matches and is normally selected on an annual basis. Gary Neville was club captain for man utd for over 5 years but was missing from the team through injury for a lot of that time. Rio Ferdinand and Ryan Giggs were team captains for most of that time.
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Post by rawli on Jan 7, 2018 21:26:35 GMT
Ryan always sounds a bit Harry Kane when he's interviewed.
Don't think that would inspire me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 21:28:03 GMT
My reasons are that he's a fine captain and when fit is one of our most important players. There's far more to captaincy than shouting at people on the pitch too. He does organise, he communicates from the back and pushes forward himself to lift the crowd on occasion. There have been many quotes where Ryan stays late after training to do more, he's worked with young Souttar for extra drills. He breeds that work ethic. Also, to bring back an old example from Hughes' first pre season... Hughes hooked Nzonzi after 45 mins, and he stormed off to the changing room. Hughes was going to go and tear his head off, but Ryan took him to one side and explained how best to work with Nzonzi. Hughes took the advice, changed his approach. Nzonzi went on to be our best player for the next 2 years. It's stuff like that you don't see with shouting and clapping on the pitch. So no, I don't think we need a new captain to be honest. I think we need a back 4, a fit captain and a settled side with a clear system and plan. Whilst i understand what your saying Jase, none of us see this go on, people can only base on opinion on what they have seen, therefore for me, we need a new club captain. I understand, which is why these threads only really appear in a crisis. There's little fanfare when we're doing well and keeping clean sheets. As with anything, captain or manager, people just want Stoke to start winning games again.
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Post by bangorstokie on Jan 7, 2018 21:39:53 GMT
Can you explain the difference between club captain and team captain? I didn't know we had two captains at the club. The team captain is the player who is present at kick off for the coin toss and is sometimes called by the ref to pass on messages to his team mates. The club captain doesn't have to be present at matches and is normally selected on an annual basis. Gary Neville was club captain for man utd for over 5 years but was missing from the team through injury for a lot of that time. Rio Ferdinand and Ryan Giggs were team captains for most of that time. Thank you for your explanation. So if Ryan is the team captain, who is the club captain?
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Post by pottersrule on Jan 7, 2018 21:52:22 GMT
The team captain is the player who is present at kick off for the coin toss and is sometimes called by the ref to pass on messages to his team mates. The club captain doesn't have to be present at matches and is normally selected on an annual basis. Gary Neville was club captain for man utd for over 5 years but was missing from the team through injury for a lot of that time. Rio Ferdinand and Ryan Giggs were team captains for most of that time. Thank you for your explanation. So if Ryan is the team captain, who is the club captain? Ryan is the club captain.He is the team captain when fit. Joe Allen has been team captain recently.
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Post by Naughtyfarty on Jan 7, 2018 21:57:50 GMT
Not read prev comments, in my opinion, yes we do. Shawcross is not a leader, fletcher is now oldish and bordering on poor, at this moment I would like Allen, hes been ok this season and could push the tempo a bit, good character
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Post by swampySCFC on Jan 7, 2018 23:31:50 GMT
Notwithstanding his injury I think Ryan has struggled since Robert Huth left. Hughes fucked him off to a side that won the Premier League. Big mistake
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 23:45:35 GMT
Shawcross isn't perfect but he's a decent captain who leads by example.
The fact is, they're a team of adult and they should all have the bollocks to show some form of accountability and leadership. Just because you're not "captain" it does;t mean you shouldn't play a role in leading the team. In 2018, captaincy is merely a novelty.
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Post by kjpt140v on Jan 7, 2018 23:50:17 GMT
People will bring up anything to destabilise the fans, club, team and players. This thread is typical of how negative some people can be, get in your corner and rock.
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Post by swampySCFC on Jan 7, 2018 23:51:54 GMT
We do. Shawcross isn't a club captain. He hasn't said a fucking word throughout all this shit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 10:37:04 GMT
Joe Allen is the man for the job
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jan 8, 2018 10:49:23 GMT
Butland should be the captain after how he spoke out.
He is making a clear statement that we are in trouble and putting pressure on the board to bring in the players needed.
Full respect to him. He cares and is taking responsibility
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Post by PotterEd on Jan 8, 2018 12:58:13 GMT
We've got much bigger problems to address than Ryan Shawcross. He's fine as a captain. Let's look at full backs, strikers, Kevin bloody Wimmer and, oh yeah, a new manager first, shall we?
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