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Post by ted1965 on Jan 7, 2018 11:24:31 GMT
So finally the owners sacked Mark Hughes, sadly the end of a very lack lustre period but for me it was a week too late and means all we have left is a survival battle. I am not saying we could have won the F A Cup but like Hughes at Chelsea the owners threw away the chance to progress in the competition by not acting after the Newcastle game.
I like Hughes as a man and I am saddened that such a promising first few seasons ended thus. I am also furious with Peter Coates, because the trigger should have been pulled after the debacle of a Christmas weekend where we surrendered before a ball was kicked and then having placed all of his eggs in the beating Newcastle basket and failed. The fact he was allowed to continue for the banana skin cup game at Coventry and the almost inevitable conclusion is for me scandalous beyond words.
I am not saying a new manager would have definitely beaten Coventry but surely some energy and new ideas could have gotten us through a very difficult but certainly not impossible task. The lift to the squad of a different voice in training for a few days and the opportunity to impress someone who would make choices on squad structure and tactical decisions for the rest of the season may have just made the difference. For me allowing a battered and confused Mark Hughes and the already demoralised players to head into a game which could kill any remaining morale remaining at the club was a huge mistake.
I still believe we can and will survive as long as the right man is in place immediately but I fear the new manager may not even arrive until after the Manchester United game as those above will not want a new man to lose his opening game. That’s exactly why Mark Hughes got himself into so much trouble, he went from trying to compete with the best to simply surrendering games to them and shrugging it off as that’s how modern football is, you get thrashed at the big boys. The players also fall into that trap and can excuse their mistakes and lack of energy during those games if they know the manager doesn’t regard it as any big deal. The pressure to win the other games becomes unbearable and we get the kind of performances we have seen over the last year to 18 months. We need a new manager who will tell the players from day one, no game is a surrender and consequences for poor performances will be not making the team for the next games. We need some power, pace and energy to go with the quality we do have although it doesn’t look that way when the playing style lacks so much energy.
As for who that will be, I have no idea as it depends what the owners truly want. If they just want someone to scrape out of the relegation zone then I guess MON will be the preferred choice till the end of the season while they look for a permanent replacement but if whoever comes in the short term fails to keep us up then what.
We become just another medium sized former Premier League club in the Championship. It doesn’t matter how we as supporters see ourselves but how the football world beyond Stoke see us. We become less appealing to really good managers and a risk for up and coming managers who may say well I am okay where I am thanks because I have as much a chance of success here. I don’t think we would slide into oblivion as some seem to think but we would after a few seasons become just another club who used to be a top 10 Premier league club for a few seasons and once more become irrelevant to all but ourselves.
I would say to Peter Coates no more dithering you restored a very tarnished reputation with many of us older supporters who forgave but I assure you we didn’t forget the nightmare scenario of your first incarnation at this fantastic football club. We didn’t forget the penny pinching aloofness that saw any half decent player we had sold for a third of the value other clubs were getting at the time. How you drained hope and belief from this club but as I said you redeemed yourself in spades but another period of penny pinching and lack of concise decision making could leave you remembered by a new generation of supporters as the man who gave them so much and then proceeded to sit back and allowed the dream to die for the want of some decisive actions at the appropriate moments.
This really is a crossroads moment of recent Stoke City history and we can’t afford the wrong turning. I don’t want the new generation of supporters waiting a generation to once again see Stoke in the top flight. The consequences from a supporter point of view most likely many new supporters would quickly lose interest in match day experience and once more we would see more kids with shirts of the big clubs wandering around Stoke again and many empty seats by the second of third season out of the top flight and selling the club to sponsors and possible future investors becomes very difficult. Football is very much a cruel game off the field as well as on it, clubs of our size quickly disappear from the minds of those beyond our supporter base if you no longer compete at the highest level. I can remember many times during our wilderness years when telling someone I supported Stoke being told, oh yeah what happened to them I remember when they were good, just. Save youe legacy Mr Coates and allow the next generation to continue to be very proud of your achievements.
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Post by BristolMick on Jan 7, 2018 11:30:40 GMT
PC waited 8 months too long Ted. What has happened this season was pretty predictable based upon the 16 month period from Jan 2016 to May 2017.
BM
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Post by ted1965 on Jan 7, 2018 11:32:45 GMT
I know what your saying BM but I was dealing with the decisions made this season mate and after Newcastle there was no other decision to make for me but they delayed and it cost us another humiliating cup exit.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 7, 2018 11:33:10 GMT
So finally the owners sacked Mark Hughes, sadly the end of a very lack lustre period but for me it was a week too late and means all we have left is a survival battle. I am not saying we could have won the F A Cup but like Hughes at Chelsea the owners threw away the chance to progress in the competition by not acting after the Newcastle game. I like Hughes as a man and I am saddened that such a promising first few seasons ended thus. I am also furious with Peter Coates, because the trigger should have been pulled after the debacle of a Christmas weekend where we surrendered before a ball was kicked and then having placed all of his eggs in the beating Newcastle basket and failed. The fact he was allowed to continue for the banana skin cup game at Coventry and the almost inevitable conclusion is for me scandalous beyond words. I am not saying a new manager would have definitely beaten Coventry but surely some energy and new ideas could have gotten us through a very difficult but certainly not impossible task. The lift to the squad of a different voice in training for a few days and the opportunity to impress someone who would make choices on squad structure and tactical decisions for the rest of the season may have just made the difference. For me allowing a battered and confused Mark Hughes and the already demoralised players to head into a game which could kill any remaining morale remaining at the club was a huge mistake. I still believe we can and will survive as long as the right man is in place immediately but I fear the new manager may not even arrive until after the Manchester United game as those above will not want a new man to lose his opening game. That’s exactly why Mark Hughes got himself into so much trouble, he went from trying to compete with the best to simply surrendering games to them and shrugging it off as that’s how modern football is, you get thrashed at the big boys. The players also fall into that trap and can excuse their mistakes and lack of energy during those games if they know the manager doesn’t regard it as any big deal. The pressure to win the other games becomes unbearable and we get the kind of performances we have seen over the last year to 18 months. We need a new manager who will tell the players from day one, no game is a surrender and consequences for poor performances will be not making the team for the next games. We need some power, pace and energy to go with the quality we do have although it doesn’t look that way when the playing style lacks so much energy. As for who that will be, I have no idea as it depends what the owners truly want. If they just want someone to scrape out of the relegation zone then I guess MON will be the preferred choice till the end of the season while they look for a permanent replacement but if whoever comes in the short term fails to keep us up then what. We become just another medium sized former Premier League club in the Championship. It doesn’t matter how we as supporters see ourselves but how the football world beyond Stoke see us. We become less appealing to really good managers and a risk for up and coming managers who may say well I am okay where I am thanks because I have as much a chance of success here. I don’t think we would slide into oblivion as some seem to think but we would after a few seasons become just another club who used to be a top 10 Premier league club for a few seasons and once more become irrelevant to all but ourselves. I would say to Peter Coates no more dithering you restored a very tarnished reputation with many of us older supporters who forgave but I assure you we didn’t forget the nightmare scenario of your first incarnation at this fantastic football club. We didn’t forget the penny pinching aloofness that saw any half decent player we had sold for a third of the value other clubs were getting at the time. How you drained hope and belief from this club but as I said you redeemed yourself in spades but another period of penny pinching and lack of concise decision making could leave you remembered by a new generation of supporters as the man who gave them so much and then proceeded to sit back and allowed the dream to die for the want of some decisive actions at the appropriate moments. This really is a crossroads moment of recent Stoke City history and we can’t afford the wrong turning. I don’t want the new generation of supporters waiting a generation to once again see Stoke in the top flight. The consequences from a supporter point of view most likely many new supporters would quickly lose interest in match day experience and once more we would see more kids with shirts of the big clubs wandering around Stoke again and many empty seats by the second of third season out of the top flight and selling the club to sponsors and possible future investors becomes very difficult. Football is very much a cruel game off the field as well as on it, clubs of our size quickly disappear from the minds of those beyond our supporter base if you no longer compete at the highest level. I can remember many times during our wilderness years when telling someone I supported Stoke being told, oh yeah what happened to them I remember when they were good, just. Save youe legacy Mr Coates and allow the next generation to continue to be very proud of your achievements. A week too late? 6 months too late is a more accurate statement. He should have gone in the summer. At the very latest, he should have gone early/mid December, to give the new manager a few weeks to assess the squad prior to the January window opening. The actions of the Board are every bit as inept as Hughes' management of the squad. Let's just hope we somehow find a way to fight and scrape our way out of the bottom 3 come the end of the season. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 11:34:18 GMT
A week ? FFS !!!!!
try 6 - 12 months too long !!!!!
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Post by ted1965 on Jan 7, 2018 11:36:42 GMT
I was dealing with the decisions already made whether he should have been removed earlier is irrelevant because they didn't do so.
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Post by lordb on Jan 7, 2018 11:39:01 GMT
Perhaps the club have been making enquiries for a while, probably since losing to West Ham.
Probably had some negative answers from prospective candidates.
That's why a short term manager is now the most likely option.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 7, 2018 11:55:03 GMT
I was dealing with the decisions already made whether he should have been removed earlier is irrelevant because they didn't do so. But the whole premis of your argument is that he should have been removed earlier. Only a week granted, but still earlier, so your argument falls down on that point. |
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Post by superheroantonius on Jan 7, 2018 12:01:00 GMT
Should have gone after the last home game last season.
Charlie adam should have been temporary manager for the last game v southampton.
That is at the very very latest
Literally everyone, his wife and her cat knew hughes had a reached a footballing dead end and lost the respect of the fans by then
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Post by ted1965 on Jan 7, 2018 12:03:38 GMT
my argument maybe not clearly made was I felt Newcastle should have been it, whether he should have gone in the summer made no difference the owners decided to stick with him and again did so after a difficult beginning. I was just saying we threw the cup out the window as Newcastle should have been the final straw there should have been no more dithering after Monday he should have been sacked immediately after that debacle, he had placed all his final eggs on a victory and it didn't happen, why wait for another 5 days and for many supporters the inevitable humiliation of yesterday it was a needless act of stupidity for me.
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Post by itsallgonepetetone on Jan 7, 2018 12:04:39 GMT
Should have been in the summer, but at the latest should have been the international break.
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Post by iglugluk on Jan 7, 2018 12:09:01 GMT
We were already in a complete mess a week ago....... Hughes should have been replaced in the summer at the very, very latest! The owners are guilty of procrastination and have masked it as patience.
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Post by surreystokie on Jan 7, 2018 12:17:19 GMT
Well said, Ted.
Those of us who received MH’’s appointment with an open mind, appreciated his attempts at a different style of play, marvelled at his efforts desipite being given so relatively little money to spend, even in that first season with so much expected, went on to witness injuries beyond belief and luck passing us by,
Then we had the waiting game for Bera. We moved late into the transfer market (the final 12 hrs) forced to put our money on Bony and ditto the next (this) season, incredibly starting it still without a reliable goal scorer which forced me to declare my anger in print that we had not brought in a decent striker in addition to an unrealistically potential one, in Bera. Thus the season ended, for me, before it had actually began.
Loyal to a fault - like our Board - I winced my way through the initial months until the Bournemouth Home game, when I declared that while I would continue with my 69th season of support of the club, if not too many of those running it, both on and off the pitch, I would be embarrassed no longer. Support them, of course, but agree with what was happening, no chance. Criticism, when justified, does not indicate a lack of passion but rather a true love for our club.
Ironically, although it was medical reasons which enforced my absence from seven matches at the heart of this wretched part of our history - and yes I did attend all of the 1985 farce - I had more time to consider this personal sporting tragedy, being there with the lads, only in spirit.
Now is the time for optimism, however, regardless of the pitiful embarrassment, the risk of our club’s reputation and the mistakes by those from whom it was least expected. Let recrimination be replaced by hope for better times ahead, The team needs our support and now is the time to provide it. It could be in our hands.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 7, 2018 12:18:00 GMT
my argument maybe not clearly made was I felt Newcastle should have been it, whether he should have gone in the summer made no difference the owners decided to stick with him and again did so after a difficult beginning. I was just saying we threw the cup out the window as Newcastle should have been the final straw there should have been no more dithering after Monday he should have been sacked immediately after that debacle, he had placed all his final eggs on a victory and it didn't happen, why wait for another 5 days and for many supporters the inevitable humiliation of yesterday it was a needless act of stupidity for me. But the point I was making mate is why wait another 6 months? He should have gone after the Arsenal surrender and the debacle of the end of season parade to 5 stewards and a programme seller. It would have saved us the inevitable humiliation of our worst season (so far) since the 'Holocaust Season'. It was a needless act of misplaced loyalty and stupidity. 5 days? 6 months? It makes no odds, it was still too late. |
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Post by salopstick on Jan 7, 2018 12:18:47 GMT
No. The point is the board are loyal. They don’t want to be a club that that has 8 managers in 5 years.
They kept hoping it would turn around. Yesterday was the last straw
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jan 7, 2018 12:20:15 GMT
One thing is for certain, losing to Coventry is more damaging to confidence than any of the league hammerings we’ve had. I agree there was no excuse for Hughes not to be sacked after the Newcastle game and I think allowing him to take charge of the Coventry game was awful judgment.
If he was teetering that close to the edge that meant a cup loss would see him lose his job, then that shows they had no faith in him to turn our league form around. A week without Hughes before that game and having Eddie N in charge would have served us much better, in my opinion. They allowed the Coventry game to become a pressure cooker of a tie. If we’d have lost without a manager, we could have had an excuse. Now the players have to dust themselves off and face Man United away next week.
It’s been managed fucking terribly.
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Post by ted1965 on Jan 7, 2018 12:26:25 GMT
sorry mate I understand what everyone is saying but sadly those are questions I or you can't answer I was simply dealing with what was, not what should or shouldn't have happened at an earlier time. All we can do now is get behind the new manager and players and hope whatever decisions are made over the next 3 weeks can turn things around.
The other point I was making was having made the decision to allow him to continue up until the Newcastle game whether through no acceptable alternative showing an interest in replacing him or misguided belief he could win that game and turn it around. we should have acted immediately after that loss. the feel of the club leading up to the cup game was one of a humiliation waiting to happen, who was shocked by our loss, certainly not me the club needed a lift and a new manager and a win against even Coventry could have been a big boost to all concerned instead the owners sat back and waited for the almost inevitable to happen and once more the club are a laughing stock.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Jan 7, 2018 12:47:34 GMT
I really do think Coates must stand aside after this debacle he has dithered & made huge mistakes regarding Hughes & his backroom staff.
Why his daughter or son have not done something has baffled me they are family so therefore all in this together.
A golden opportunity has been wasted after 10 years of top flight football its come to this were we are fighting to save our skin with no obvious choice of new manager & a squad of players that look lost unfit & unmotivated.
Its a crying shame & we the fans have been treated very shabbily by the owners.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 14:22:40 GMT
The whole lot behind the scene want gelding for allowing our club to be as shite as we are now. They need to pull their collective fingers out! I repeat. This squad is a shambles!
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 7, 2018 14:32:59 GMT
Given how tightly spread the points are from 13th to 18th a few decent results would see us safe. We need someone who can create discipline in our defence (hopefully with man to man marking) Stppping shipping goals at least gives us a chance at the other end. A solid back four would ho a long way to achieving that.
I would confine the centre backs to remaining in our half instead of going up for corners. We have lost a few goals to breakaways from our corners.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 7, 2018 14:37:49 GMT
Perhaps the club have been making enquiries for a while, probably since losing to West Ham. Probably had some negative answers from prospective candidates. That's why a short term manager is now the most likely option. I agree. I expect they picked up the phone for several weeks and spoke to the obvious suspects, like Moyes, Alardyce and Pardew, who were already considering better offers. |
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Post by kustokie on Jan 7, 2018 14:41:23 GMT
Given how tightly spread the points are from 13th to 18th a few decent results would see us safe. We need someone who can create discipline in our defence (hopefully with man to man marking) Stppping shipping goals at least gives us a chance at the other end. A solid back four would ho a long way to achieving that. I would confine the centre backs to remaining in our half instead of going up for corners. We have lost a few goals to breakaways from our corners. I am not sure I agree entirely with your assessment of corners and set pieces, because one area we have improved this season is the number of goals scored from corners. Maybe they left the wrong players back usually Edwards and/or Pieters but bringing the big players up for corners has seen some success. |
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Post by duckling on Jan 7, 2018 14:47:01 GMT
I said you redeemed yourself in spades but another period of penny pinching and lack of concise decision making could leave you remembered by a new generation of supporters as the man who gave them so much and then proceeded to sit back and allowed the dream to die for the want of some decisive actions at the appropriate moments. Even if the team get relegated, I really don't think Peter Coates deserves to be remembered this way. It would be an appalling lack of gratitude toward someone who did a lot more things right than wrong. And I don't think he will be. |
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 7, 2018 14:58:42 GMT
Given how tightly spread the points are from 13th to 18th a few decent results would see us safe. We need someone who can create discipline in our defence (hopefully with man to man marking) Stppping shipping goals at least gives us a chance at the other end. A solid back four would ho a long way to achieving that. I would confine the centre backs to remaining in our half instead of going up for corners. We have lost a few goals to breakaways from our corners. I am not sure I agree entirely with your assessment of corners and set pieces, because one area we have improved this season is the number of goals scored from corners. Maybe they left the wrong players back usually Edwards and/or Pieters but bringing the big players up for corners has seen some success. I agree but that is the dilemma, it has to be a balance. One way or another we have to keep players back to deal with the breakaway as we don't have defenders with the pace to get back. Personally I think stopping goals being scored is a higher priority in the position we find ourselves. Thankfully not my decision to make 😊 |
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Post by boweryboy on Jan 7, 2018 15:15:57 GMT
Go back to our third ninth finish,last seven games..5 points out of a possible 21,three of those in the last game.and in three of those games,we had four put past us...THAT WAS THE START OF OUR DECLINE,one big crack papered over right there..
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Post by mermaidsal on Jan 7, 2018 16:01:57 GMT
Always good to read your haikus Ted  Agree with most of the analysis but I'd say November was the time to be bold and change manager - then we could have picked up momentum, swung back and looked to get a decent season out of this. Waiting till now means survival will be an achievment. That's my worry in general about the Board right now, winners read the game several moves ahead and we've read this one several moves behind. |
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Post by duckling on Jan 7, 2018 16:20:13 GMT
our worst season (so far) since the 'Holocaust Season'. For real? |
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 7, 2018 16:23:29 GMT
I think MH should have been sacked some time ago. My loyal support for him when we failed to win matches against Brighton and Palace from winning positions and the final straw was the dreadful performance against West Ham.
The irony is it was primarily the players at fault yesterday. The defence was terrible in the first half and we could have been 3 down by half time. In the second half the forwards missed countless chances to score.
Nevertheless there is still a long time to go this season and we do have a talented squad that needs organizing into an effective unit.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 7, 2018 16:28:19 GMT
Go back to our third ninth finish,last seven games..5 points out of a possible 21,three of those in the last game.and in three of those games,we had four put past us...THAT WAS THE START OF OUR DECLINE,one big crack papered over right there..  that was the point where it became obvious to anyone with any knowledge of football could see the writing on the wall, I was lambasted by the Oatcake massive for expressing my view then, they were all living in cloud cuckoo land 3 ninth place finishes blah blah fuckin blah, we are where we are due to that attitude they are as guilty as the idiot managing the shit show. |
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 7, 2018 16:29:21 GMT
I think MH should have been sacked some time ago. My loyal support for him when we failed to win matches against Brighton and Palace from winning positions and the final straw was the dreadful performance against West Ham. The irony is it was primarily the players at fault yesterday. The defence was terrible in the first half and we could have been 3 down by half time. In the second half the forwards missed countless chances to score. Nevertheless there is still a long time to go this season and we do have a talented squad that needs organizing into an effective unit. Talented squad please explain who these talented players are ? |
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Agree with most of the analysis but I'd say November was the time to be bold and change manager - then we could have picked up momentum, swung back and looked to get a decent season out of this. Waiting till now means survival will be an achievment. That's my worry in general about the Board right now, winners read the game several moves ahead and we've read this one several moves behind.
that was the point where it became obvious to anyone with any knowledge of football could see the writing on the wall, I was lambasted by the Oatcake massive for expressing my view then, they were all living in cloud cuckoo land 3 ninth place finishes blah blah fuckin blah, we are where we are due to that attitude they are as guilty as the idiot managing the shit show.
