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Post by robstokie on Dec 1, 2017 0:36:41 GMT
I can't say I do - I'm a godless heathen. Nothing to do with Twatkinson being the devil with a whistle in case anyone was wondering!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 11:56:38 GMT
Good some more Christmas presents for me then as only an idiot would not believe in God but celebrate his Sons Birthday.
It's not believing in God that's the hard part , it's what vision of God do you have?
A man with a fluffy white beard gets about as much credence as Santa Claus but is that just an acceptable face we put on something we do not understand and never will.
The Sun is 400 times bigger than the Moon but sits 400 times further away if either were bigger or smaller or closer we would not have eclipses. Just another lucky chance thing that can't be explained.
Do I think God is watching over me and guides my every step? Do me a favour I wouldn't be stuck in Stoke on Trent if that was true =)
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Post by heyzeus on Dec 1, 2017 12:59:14 GMT
Yes
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 13:22:56 GMT
No - none of the 3,000 or so of the different God's worldwide.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 13:26:41 GMT
nope.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2017 13:33:54 GMT
There was a dyslexic agnostic insomniac
He laid awake all night worrying about the existence of dog
If that helps the discussion
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Post by elystokie on Dec 1, 2017 13:41:21 GMT
I met a lad the other day who seemed fairly rational and not even slightly religious but when I tried to discuss evolution with him he flat out refused to accept it
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Post by Gods on Dec 1, 2017 13:46:05 GMT
I don't, it's all Jack and the Beanstalk to me.
I'm a straight Darwin man myself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 13:48:37 GMT
Do I believe in God?...Yep
Do I believe in man made religious groups / written scripture? No
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 1, 2017 13:50:55 GMT
On Dawkins' scale, I'm 6.9 (Same as the man himself) which basically means I am 99.9999999% certain there is no god, but I cannot empirically prove as much.
For reference this is also how I feel about the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 1, 2017 13:53:04 GMT
Good some more Christmas presents for me then as only an idiot would not believe in God but celebrate his Sons Birthday. It's not believing in God that's the hard part , it's what vision of God do you have? A man with a fluffy white beard gets about as much credence as Santa Claus but is that just an acceptable face we put on something we do not understand and never will. The Sun is 400 times bigger than the Moon but sits 400 times further away if either were bigger or smaller or closer we would not have eclipses. Just another lucky chance thing that can't be explained. Do I think God is watching over me and guides my every step? Do me a favour I wouldn't be stuck in Stoke on Trent if that was true =) This is Deism, a belief shared by many Founding Fathers.
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Post by yeokel on Dec 1, 2017 14:12:46 GMT
The Sun is 400 times bigger than the Moon but sits 400 times further away if either were bigger or smaller or closer we would not have eclipses. Just another lucky chance thing that can't be explained. But you have explained it.... It's just luck. In an infinite universe with billions of stars, surrounded by even more billions of planets, surrounded by even more billions of moons do you not think that there is a chance of that freak circumstance occurring, probably more than once? There are probably other freak occurrences throughout the universe. Planets with a surface of exactly 50% land and 50% liquid. Planets where the highest peak is exactly the same amplitude of the deepest trough. Those sorts of things, and the locals probably wonder, in their own way, if that is a sign of some sort of design or master power over their own lives too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 14:47:26 GMT
The Sun is 400 times bigger than the Moon but sits 400 times further away if either were bigger or smaller or closer we would not have eclipses. Just another lucky chance thing that can't be explained. But you have explained it.... It's just luck. In an infinite universe with billions of stars, surrounded by even more billions of planets, surrounded by even more billions of moons do you not think that there is a chance of that freak circumstance occurring, probably more than once? There are probably other freak occurrences throughout the universe. Planets with a surface of exactly 50% land and 50% liquid. Planets where the highest peak is exactly the same amplitude of the deepest trough. Those sorts of things, and the locals probably wonder, in their own way, if that is a sign of some sort of design or master power over their own lives too. Don't talk rubbish man. The position and size of the sun and moon are a pre requisite of our existence the chances of that being repeated anywhere else in the universe are slim and if it does it will certainly not be by luck. We're not talking roughly 400 times bigger or roughly 400 times further away we are talking precision.
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Post by yeokel on Dec 1, 2017 15:17:12 GMT
But you have explained it.... It's just luck. In an infinite universe with billions of stars, surrounded by even more billions of planets, surrounded by even more billions of moons do you not think that there is a chance of that freak circumstance occurring, probably more than once? There are probably other freak occurrences throughout the universe. Planets with a surface of exactly 50% land and 50% liquid. Planets where the highest peak is exactly the same amplitude of the deepest trough. Those sorts of things, and the locals probably wonder, in their own way, if that is a sign of some sort of design or master power over their own lives too. Don't talk rubbish man. The position and size of the sun and moon are a pre requisite of our existence the chances of that being repeated anywhere else in the universe are slim and if it does it will certainly not be by luck. We're not talking roughly 400 times bigger or roughly 400 times further away we are talking precision. Given that the Earth's orbit around the Sun, and the Moon's orbit around the Earth are both slightly excentric (ie, not exactly circular) then you are only "talking roughly" as the apparent ratio between their sizes is variable. Indeed, it is the case that there are eclipses from time to time where the moon does not completely block out the Sun. And as for the chances of "of that being repeated anywhere else in the universe" I would say that rather than them being slim, they are in fact infinite in an infinite universe. The chances of it NOT being repeated are fairly slim. But, as neither of us will ever be proven right or wrong, I'm happy to continue with my belief in sciences and common sense, and I'm sure you equally are happy to contunue with your own particular indulgencies. In fact, our positions are much closer than you would imagine. Consider, that of all the gods which have ever existed during the history of mankind, there is only one of them upon which we disagree.
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Post by Gods on Dec 1, 2017 15:30:10 GMT
On Dawkins' scale, I'm 6.9 (Same as the man himself) which basically means I am 99.9999999% certain there is no god, but I cannot empirically prove as much. For reference this is also how I feel about the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. Have you read Dawkins 'The Blind Watchmaker' ? It certainly helped me to understand where Darwin was coming from.
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 1, 2017 16:27:09 GMT
Yep Do I believe in man made religious groups / written scripture? No Don't be such a philistineXx . Great song, funny(ish) video:-
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Post by Pedropotter on Dec 1, 2017 17:14:40 GMT
The best bit in the bible is when Jesus is talking to God (himself), and someone that wasn't there is writing it all down.
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Post by localloser on Dec 1, 2017 17:57:56 GMT
No. Absolutely not. My dad was a vicar - knocked all religion out of me. And the hypocrisy of the church when he died was something else.
Sorry to all you believers - I actually feel sorry for you.
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Post by Mendicant on Dec 1, 2017 18:05:25 GMT
I'm what you call a teleological existential atheist. I believe there's an intelligence to the universe with the exception of certain parts of New Jersey. —Woody Alle
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 1, 2017 18:24:50 GMT
No. Absolutely not. My dad was a vicar - knocked all religion out of me. And the hypocrisy of the church when he died was something else. Sorry to all you believers - I actually feel sorry for you. CofE = Conservatives at prayer. You can't get more hypocritical than conservatives at prayer 🙏🏻
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Post by StokieNath on Dec 1, 2017 18:31:25 GMT
No.
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Post by Saul Krakinov on Dec 1, 2017 19:32:41 GMT
No chance, it's all a load of bollocks!
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Post by localloser on Dec 1, 2017 19:37:30 GMT
No. Absolutely not. My dad was a vicar - knocked all religion out of me. And the hypocrisy of the church when he died was something else. Sorry to all you believers - I actually feel sorry for you >. CofE = Conservatives at prayer. You can't get more hypocritical than conservatives at prayer 🙏🏻 He never voted Conservative in his life but...... He was a working class Potteries lad who spent 5 years in Burma during the war in the RAF. He then became a teacher, then a priest. It was the ruination of our family and he died at 51. The bishop took his funeral service and at the end of the funeral he turned to me and said: "Please tell your mother that although I am very sorry about your father, she needs to be out of the vicarage in 3 months so that his successor can move in." I was the eldest of 6 children at 19 years old -- in my second year as a student nurse. Hypocrisy? Tell me about it. Still angry 45 years later.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Dec 1, 2017 19:38:25 GMT
But you have explained it.... It's just luck. In an infinite universe with billions of stars, surrounded by even more billions of planets, surrounded by even more billions of moons do you not think that there is a chance of that freak circumstance occurring, probably more than once? There are probably other freak occurrences throughout the universe. Planets with a surface of exactly 50% land and 50% liquid. Planets where the highest peak is exactly the same amplitude of the deepest trough. Those sorts of things, and the locals probably wonder, in their own way, if that is a sign of some sort of design or master power over their own lives too. Don't talk rubbish man. The position and size of the sun and moon are a pre requisite of our existence the chances of that being repeated anywhere else in the universe are slim and if it does it will certainly not be by luck. We're not talking roughly 400 times bigger or roughly 400 times further away we are talking precision. Am I missing some obvious joke here?
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Post by Cast no shadow on Dec 1, 2017 19:50:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 19:53:26 GMT
Yes absolutely I do, no doubt at all in my mind.
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Post by Boothen on Dec 1, 2017 20:11:46 GMT
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Post by bathstoke on Dec 1, 2017 20:22:13 GMT
CofE = Conservatives at prayer. You can't get more hypocritical than conservatives at prayer 🙏🏻 He never voted Conservative in his life but...... He was a working class Potteries lad who spent 5 years in Burma during the war in the RAF. He then became a teacher, then a priest. It was the ruination of our family and he died at 51. The bishop took his funeral service and at the end of the funeral he turned to me and said: "Please tell your mother that although I am very sorry about your father, she needs to be out of the vicarage in 3 months so that his successor can move in." I was the eldest of 6 children at 19 years old -- in my second year as a student nurse. Hypocrisy? Tell me about it. Still angry 45 years later. 51! Your dad sounds a fascinating man, unlike that Bishop. We've got a new vicar & the jury is still out...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 1, 2017 20:33:32 GMT
For me: I can fully accept the Darwin theory of evolution but I don't believe that it necessarily contradicts the existence of God. The evolution theory does not answer questions of " Why are we here?"."What is the meaning of existence" what is it all about?" "God" could have chosen to do things that way. Religion and religious stories are simply mankind's search for the truth and an explanation ( which surely is a natural human instinct and is understandable that we should seek to find a reason for things). It is also tied up with identity and the history and roots of " your people" hence Judaism or Islam bring very much cultural and particular to specific groups of people. ( I think that the Talmud, Torah etc is the attempt of the Jews to explain " their" story and stories such as Adam and Eve are not meant to be taken literally. I must say I do believe that Islam was intentionally invented to combat Judaism and Christianity and is simply a cult that has got out if hand) I'd always make a distinction between organised Religion and a personal belief in God.....once man gets hold of religion often it becomes another man made business about power control and money ( Marxism). Yet an individual relationship with God has inspired many to great things, Gandhi, Martin Luther king, Mother Theresa etc. I can't accept the Christian idea that God intervenes by way of miracles, nor does he answer prayers...if this were the case he/ she seems very selective and unjust. Also I can't understand how, if everything is his creation how come it seems " natural" that big things eat smaller things in the food chain.why does lamb taste good? God's cocked that up...surely a benevolent superior being would not have created such a cruel system? I have been to a range of churches/ religious buildings, Christian and non Christisn in the past... there was a black Tunstall Pentecostal church that I went to for a while which wad a brilliant experience...I must go back to see if it is still there....can' t remember it's name, may have been Assembly of God. I was surprised to see a statue of Jesus on the altar of the Hindu temple in Derby alongside Vishnu, Krishna, Ganesh etc..but the priest simply saw it as part of the battle between good and evil. I found guardwaras very friendly and welcoming ...the offer of food is insisted upon if you visit. For those who are interested,the Potters church in Birches Head is well worth a visit for those who are inquisitive and searching. It has bucked all trends in church attendance and was in the national news a few years ago under the headline" is this the best church in he country" www.potterschurch.co.uk/ Started by Phil Barber , of the great Barber family..... Brian, Deputy Principal of the sixth form college, Leonard and George Barber ( Barber cinemas, and the book " From workhouse to Lord Mayor"..can be googled) www.thepotteries.org/federation/056_barber.htmBecause the Barbers are behind it , they do alot of quiet work across the city for the homeless and those suffering domestic abuse....social services actually direct people to them. Interestingly Jesus did not keep referring people to a future better life in heaven, he dealt with people and issues before him. He called himself " the son of man" rather than " the son of god"...also he was a threat to the establishment ( Hence criticism of the Phariseees and Sadducees and the turning over of the tables in front of the Temple) and this is why he was executed. I think it is worth mentioning the Stoke on Trent connection to Primitive Methodism / Mow Cop that is something to be proud of, and I believe has associations with the traditional Stoke connection to Labour ( as opposed to a Marxist connection) www.methodistheritage.org.uk/mowcop.htmJust wish to state that I am not religious but like many of us, search for meaning.
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Post by localloser on Dec 1, 2017 20:36:00 GMT
He never voted Conservative in his life but...... He was a working class Potteries lad who spent 5 years in Burma during the war in the RAF. He then became a teacher, then a priest. It was the ruination of our family and he died at 51. The bishop took his funeral service and at the end of the funeral he turned to me and said: "Please tell your mother that although I am very sorry about your father, she needs to be out of the vicarage in 3 months so that his successor can move in." I was the eldest of 6 children at 19 years old -- in my second year as a student nurse. Hypocrisy? Tell me about it. Still angry 45 years later. 51! Your dad sounds a fascinating man, unlike that Bishop. We've got a new vicar & the jury is still out... Never heard him described as fascinating before. The war fucked him up badly - never spoke a word to us about it. Then we moved house every two years so it was very hard for us kids to make and keep friends. I never got his religion though - maybe he was searching for something. The bishop threw my poor old mum off religion too. When she was dying I asked her if she wanted a religious funeral: she said "No, they are all just hypocrites". I could tell you lots more, but I won't. But in reply to the OP, no, I can't believe in any god.
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