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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 27, 2017 17:42:02 GMT
I think I'm probably slightly more worried now than the last season under pulis.
In that season, we had previously had a run of form. I felt that we would pull the win out of the hat that we needed. There were several teams worse than us and the panic arose quite late and was one that could be dispelled with a win, maybe two wins.
This time we are the biggest soft touch in the league, regularly giving up a lead within minutes of taking it.
We really do look a lily-livered team with no stomach for the fight that is about to start.
Unless we change our approach and get our defence organised, and change the formation we will definitely go down in my view. Only swansea look worse than us right now
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Post by collo68 on Nov 27, 2017 17:44:04 GMT
Just fuck him off, surely there are managers out there that could squeeze more than 6 wins in 30 games out of the squad they have at their disposal, we all have our ideas on who could replace MLH but it's down to tight wad Coates. Can you imagine for 1 minute that if his head of management at BET365 was as shit as Hughes has been in the last 22 months he'd still be in a job. Gouranga. Who
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Post by geoff321 on Nov 27, 2017 17:44:13 GMT
In 5 seasons at Stoke the record of Hughes after 13 games is:
13 points
15 points
19 points
16 points
13 points.
Although that record is pretty average it suggests he always turns it round. In that respect if there is to be a change of manager better to do it in the summer rather than mid season.
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Post by alster on Nov 27, 2017 17:47:08 GMT
Just fuck him off, surely there are managers out there that could squeeze more than 6 wins in 30 games out of the squad they have at their disposal, we all have our ideas on who could replace MLH but it's down to tight wad Coates. Can you imagine for 1 minute that if his head of management at BET365 was as shit as Hughes has been in the last 22 months he'd still be in a job. Gouranga. The thing you seem to be missing is that Peter Coates is absolutely fuck all to do with running bet365.
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Post by Gods on Nov 27, 2017 17:49:33 GMT
There aren't two camps - there are several: 1 Those that want Hughes to go and don't care if we go down. 2 Those that wants rid of Hughes and have a blind faith that a new manager will make the difference between staying up and going down. 3 Those that believe Hughes should go but recognise that changing the manager now is a massive risk and could well backfire but believe the risk is worth taking. 4 Those that believe Hughes should stay on the grounds that he's more likely to keep us up than any of the likely alternatives and a call made at the end of the season based on whether he has delivered on expectations (i.e. a top 10 finish). 5 Those that think Hughes should stay on regardless. I'm for option 4. I may not agree but I get those that favour option 3 but I think those opting for 1, 2 or 5 have more faith in their own opinion than is good for the club. I really don't have any confidence that we would attract a manager at this stage of the season who would do better than Highes. It's incredibly close this year - any team from 7th down has a realistic chance of getting relegated. Hughes teams have generally done better in the second half of the season and we are only a couple of good results off the top half - as well as couple of bad results form the relegation zone. Given how close it is stability might be key - in the same way as the instability at Everton is dragging them further into the mire by the day. The best time to change managers is the end of the season - and I still think that's the best option if it turns out we do need to make a change. Good post, on what I believe to be the balance of probabilities I'm a 4. And for what it's worth I thinks that what the board plan to do, stick to the summer and take a view then, unless we completely implode and I suppose that could change everything. But I don't think that will happen, the management team are broadly sane and the squad is not a terrible one by any means.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 27, 2017 17:56:07 GMT
I think I'm probably slightly more worried now than the last season under pulis. In that season, we had previously had a run of form. I felt that we would pull the win out of the hat that we needed. There were several teams worse than us and the panic arose quite late and was one that could be dispelled with a win, maybe two wins. This time we are the biggest soft touch in the league, regularly giving up a lead within minutes of taking it. We really do look a lily-livered team with no stomach for the fight that is about to start. Unless we change our approach and get our defence organised, and change the formation we will definitely go down in my view. Only swansea look worse than us right now And Everton, who Big Sam will probably turn around. I think I'm a bit more worried, too. I was more "concerned", than worried, but as much as I disliked Pulis, I also thought he could get the results we needed. I am only 50/50 that Hughes can. We keep fucking up at key moments.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 27, 2017 17:56:46 GMT
Maybe history is being rewritten but it’s worth remembering that as late as April 15th last season, if we’d have lost to Hull they’d have been just 3 points behind us with just 5 games to go. We we’re closer to the mire at a pretty late stage last season than a lot of people care to remember and if anything its got fucking worse. If you believe what Pulis delivered was a sacking offence then you can’t possibly think Hughes should keep his job. I just said. I think he needs to go. He's had as much patience as he deserved and it's clear the problems are not going away. I know, I was more making the point that history is being somewhat massaged for both of our favourite Welshmen.
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Post by parsonage1955 on Nov 27, 2017 18:03:01 GMT
Mr Coke. Spot on. Except for the reference to Leicester. Who look a pretty decent side to me.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 27, 2017 18:03:53 GMT
In 5 seasons at Stoke the record of Hughes after 13 games is: 13 points 15 points 19 points 16 points 13 points. Although that record is pretty average it suggests he always turns it round. In that respect if there is to be a change of manager better to do it in the summer rather than mid season. Last seasons figures mean that the points per game for the final 25 games were less than those for the first 13 which has then been followed this season by our joint worst performance for the first 13 games. I think people are right to be very worried, Geoff.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 27, 2017 18:04:36 GMT
Just fuck him off, surely there are managers out there that could squeeze more than 6 wins in 30 games out of the squad they have at their disposal, we all have our ideas on who could replace MLH but it's down to tight wad Coates. Can you imagine for 1 minute that if his head of management at BET365 was as shit as Hughes has been in the last 22 months he'd still be in a job. Gouranga. The thing you seem to be missing is that Peter Coates is absolutely fuck all to do with running bet365. They'd still be in a Portakabin settling bets with an abacus if he was.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 27, 2017 18:29:01 GMT
There aren't two camps - there are several: 1 Those that want Hughes to go and don't care if we go down. 2 Those that wants rid of Hughes and have a blind faith that a new manager will make the difference between staying up and going down. 3 Those that believe Hughes should go but recognise that changing the manager now is a massive risk and could well backfire but believe the risk is worth taking. 4 Those that believe Hughes should stay on the grounds that he's more likely to keep us up than any of the likely alternatives and a call made at the end of the season based on whether he has delivered on expectations (i.e. a top 10 finish). 5 Those that think Hughes should stay on regardless. I'm for option 4. I may not agree but I get those that favour option 3 but I think those opting for 1, 2 or 5 have more faith in their own opinion than is good for the club. I really don't have any confidence that we would attract a manager at this stage of the season who would do better than Highes. It's incredibly close this year - any team from 7th down has a realistic chance of getting relegated. Hughes teams have generally done better in the second half of the season and we are only a couple of good results off the top half - as well as couple of bad results form the relegation zone. Given how close it is stability might be key - in the same way as the instability at Everton is dragging them further into the mire by the day. The best time to change managers is the end of the season - and I still think that's the best option if it turns out we do need to make a change. You've missed one - those who wanted Hughes gone before he even got his feet under the table.
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Post by owdestokie on Nov 27, 2017 18:32:15 GMT
Just fuck him off, surely there are managers out there that could squeeze more than 6 wins in 30 games out of the squad they have at their disposal, we all have our ideas on who could replace MLH but it's down to tight wad Coates. Can you imagine for 1 minute that if his head of management at BET365 was as shit as Hughes has been in the last 22 months he'd still be in a job. Gouranga. Your 2nd paragraph is absolutely bang on
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Post by alster on Nov 27, 2017 18:34:11 GMT
There aren't two camps - there are several: 1 Those that want Hughes to go and don't care if we go down. 2 Those that wants rid of Hughes and have a blind faith that a new manager will make the difference between staying up and going down. 3 Those that believe Hughes should go but recognise that changing the manager now is a massive risk and could well backfire but believe the risk is worth taking. 4 Those that believe Hughes should stay on the grounds that he's more likely to keep us up than any of the likely alternatives and a call made at the end of the season based on whether he has delivered on expectations (i.e. a top 10 finish). 5 Those that think Hughes should stay on regardless. I'm for option 4. I may not agree but I get those that favour option 3 but I think those opting for 1, 2 or 5 have more faith in their own opinion than is good for the club. I really don't have any confidence that we would attract a manager at this stage of the season who would do better than Highes. It's incredibly close this year - any team from 7th down has a realistic chance of getting relegated. Hughes teams have generally done better in the second half of the season and we are only a couple of good results off the top half - as well as couple of bad results form the relegation zone. Given how close it is stability might be key - in the same way as the instability at Everton is dragging them further into the mire by the day. The best time to change managers is the end of the season - and I still think that's the best option if it turns out we do need to make a change. You've missed one - those who wanted Hughes gone before he even got his feet under the table. Most of them were simply distraught that Pulis was gone and Hughes was not him.
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Post by geoff321 on Nov 27, 2017 18:34:51 GMT
In 5 seasons at Stoke the record of Hughes after 13 games is: 13 points 15 points 19 points 16 points 13 points. Although that record is pretty average it suggests he always turns it round. In that respect if there is to be a change of manager better to do it in the summer rather than mid season. Last seasons figures mean that the points per game for the final 25 games were less than those for the first 13 which has then been followed this season by our joint worst performance for the first 13 games. I think people are right to be very worried, Geoff. The only fair way momo, at least in my opinion, is to judge any manager's record over a full season and in that sense Hughes has in the main done a first class job. I'm not sure that the fans who want him out really fear relegation or they are just annoyed that some of the so called smaller clubs are above us in the table at present. There's still 25 games to play and I think the league table will undergo many changes with Stoke moving to their normal mid table postion.
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Post by Veritas on Nov 27, 2017 18:41:18 GMT
There aren't two camps - there are several: 1 Those that want Hughes to go and don't care if we go down. 2 Those that wants rid of Hughes and have a blind faith that a new manager will make the difference between staying up and going down. 3 Those that believe Hughes should go but recognise that changing the manager now is a massive risk and could well backfire but believe the risk is worth taking. 4 Those that believe Hughes should stay on the grounds that he's more likely to keep us up than any of the likely alternatives and a call made at the end of the season based on whether he has delivered on expectations (i.e. a top 10 finish). 5 Those that think Hughes should stay on regardless. I'm for option 4. I may not agree but I get those that favour option 3 but I think those opting for 1, 2 or 5 have more faith in their own opinion than is good for the club. I really don't have any confidence that we would attract a manager at this stage of the season who would do better than Highes. It's incredibly close this year - any team from 7th down has a realistic chance of getting relegated. Hughes teams have generally done better in the second half of the season and we are only a couple of good results off the top half - as well as couple of bad results form the relegation zone. Given how close it is stability might be key - in the same way as the instability at Everton is dragging them further into the mire by the day. The best time to change managers is the end of the season - and I still think that's the best option if it turns out we do need to make a change. This analysis is spot on and I am with you at number 4
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 27, 2017 18:57:57 GMT
Last seasons figures mean that the points per game for the final 25 games were less than those for the first 13 which has then been followed this season by our joint worst performance for the first 13 games. I think people are right to be very worried, Geoff. The only fair way momo, at least in my opinion, is to judge any manager's record over a full season and in that sense Hughes has in the main done a first class job. I'm not sure that the fans who want him out really fear relegaton or they are just annoyed that some of the so called smaller clubs are above us in the table at present. There's still 25 games to play and I think the league table will undergo many changes with Stoke moving to their normal mid table postion. The past 38 games have yielded 41 points Geoff and last season, it got worse not better in terms of points per game accrued after the first 13. If that happens again after another poor start we are toast and that's that.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 27, 2017 19:07:17 GMT
Mr Coke. Spot on. Except for the reference to Leicester. Who look a pretty decent side to me. Thanks for your praise. I agree Leicester are looking a better team again, but over the years their form seems to fluctuate between excellence and dire. My point really was I don't think I would want Puel for a manager. We'll see how things go at Leicester when they have some disappointing results, some French bosses can get very nasty.
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Post by greyman on Nov 28, 2017 9:30:39 GMT
The only fair way momo, at least in my opinion, is to judge any manager's record over a full season and in that sense Hughes has in the main done a first class job. I'm not sure that the fans who want him out really fear relegaton or they are just annoyed that some of the so called smaller clubs are above us in the table at present. There's still 25 games to play and I think the league table will undergo many changes with Stoke moving to their normal mid table postion. The past 38 games have yielded 41 points Geoff and last season, it got worse not better in terms of points per game accrued after the first 13. If that happens again after another poor start we are toast and that's that. For once, momo is right. Those numbers from Geoff only tell half the story. The team is structurally unsound and has been for two years. There's only so long that can continue and we're at that point now. I've been giving Hughes chance after chance but it's not changing. He earned the patience he's been shown, but I'm out of it now.
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Post by mozzer on Nov 28, 2017 11:10:58 GMT
With all due respect this MH side has no bollocks and what ever you thought of Pulis his sides had nothing other than a pair of bollocks, if we find ourselves sucked in to a relegation dogfight fight we are royally fucked.
People need to stop burying their heads, the performances may be marginal against our lesser opponents in defeat but they are still defeats, in 10 years time results do not read ................
Palace 2 - Stoke 1 (but stoke played really well and did not deserve to lose and in all fairness it was CP's only second win of the campaign so they were not really be expected to win, plus they scored in extra time so it really should not have counted and Mouting was playing out of position so its not Stokes fault etc etc etc)
We have to win against the lesser teams in the league or at least get a draw away at teams like Palace, at this rate we will be running out of winnable games and still burying our heads that the results will come as Hughes teams are always slow starters.....its a joke how we are going and we are all still in denial that this is serious.
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Post by greyman on Nov 28, 2017 11:14:44 GMT
With all due respect this MH side has no bollocks and what ever you thought of Pulis his sides had nothing other than a pair of bollocks, if we find ourselves sucked in to a relegation dogfight fight we are royally fucked. People need to stop burying their heads, the performances may be marginal against our lesser opponents in defeat but they are still defeats, in 10 years time results do not read ................ Palace 2 - Stoke 1 (but stoke played really well and did not deserve to lose and in all fairness it was CP's only second win of the campaign so they were not really be expected to win, plus they scored in extra time so it really should not have counted and Mouting was playing out of position so its not Stokes fault etc etc etc) We have to win against the lesser teams in the league or at least get a draw away at teams like Palace, at this rate we will be running out of winnable games and still burying our heads that the results will come as Hughes teams are always slow starters.....its a joke how we are going and we are all still in denial that this is serious. Yeah, a Pulis side would never be involved in a relegation fight
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 11:26:31 GMT
In 5 seasons at Stoke the record of Hughes after 13 games is: 13 points 15 points 19 points 16 points 13 points. Although that record is pretty average it suggests he always turns it round. In that respect if there is to be a change of manager better to do it in the summer rather than mid season. That’s all fine and good......as long as the squad is still behind him
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Post by mozzer on Nov 28, 2017 11:31:45 GMT
With all due respect this MH side has no bollocks and what ever you thought of Pulis his sides had nothing other than a pair of bollocks, if we find ourselves sucked in to a relegation dogfight fight we are royally fucked. People need to stop burying their heads, the performances may be marginal against our lesser opponents in defeat but they are still defeats, in 10 years time results do not read ................ Palace 2 - Stoke 1 (but stoke played really well and did not deserve to lose and in all fairness it was CP's only second win of the campaign so they were not really be expected to win, plus they scored in extra time so it really should not have counted and Mouting was playing out of position so its not Stokes fault etc etc etc) We have to win against the lesser teams in the league or at least get a draw away at teams like Palace, at this rate we will be running out of winnable games and still burying our heads that the results will come as Hughes teams are always slow starters.....its a joke how we are going and we are all still in denial that this is serious. Yeah, a Pulis side would never be involved in a relegation fight Read it again...........that is not what the post implies. I will help you out...... A Pulis side would stand more of a chance than a MH side in a relegation Dog fight because his sides were built on guile rather than skill
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Post by mrred on Nov 28, 2017 11:57:55 GMT
This thread would have been applicable 2 years ago, when a group of supporters (myself included) had enough and thought Hughes had reached his limit (and his football was shit then). However no, it's pretty universal that supporters want him out. I can't even get angry with Hughes because he's such a dour fucker. Whereas Pulis was a massively odious character.
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Post by Davef on Nov 28, 2017 12:15:52 GMT
This thread would have been applicable 2 years ago, when a group of supporters (myself included) had enough and thought Hughes had reached his limit (and his football was shit then). However no, it's pretty universal that supporters want him out. I can't even get angry with Hughes because he's such a dour fucker. Whereas Pulis was a massively odious character. Two years ago this week we'd just qualified for the League Cup semi-final and absolutely played Manchester City off the park. And you wanted Hughes out then?
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Post by alster on Nov 28, 2017 12:24:03 GMT
Yeah, a Pulis side would never be involved in a relegation fight Read it again...........that is not what the post implies. I will help you out...... A Pulis side would stand more of a chance than a MH side in a relegation Dog fight because his sides were built on guile rather than skill So you want a team based on guile rather than skill just incase we are involved in a relegation dogfight because that kind of destroys any aspiration towards anything else. That's in defense of the appointment of the Hughes we first appointed not the one who's become nearly as negative as Pulis. It takes bollocks to get out of a relegation dog fight, it takes a different kind of bollocks be willing to lose in an attempt to win. I know which I'd rather watch.
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Post by mozzer on Nov 28, 2017 12:34:10 GMT
Read it again...........that is not what the post implies. I will help you out...... A Pulis side would stand more of a chance than a MH side in a relegation Dog fight because his sides were built on guile rather than skill So you want a team based on guile rather than skill just incase we are involved in a relegation dogfight because that kind of destroys any aspiration towards anything else. That's in defense of the appointment of the Hughes we first appointed not the one who's become nearly as negative as Pulis. It takes bollocks to get out of a relegation dog fight, it takes a different kind of bollocks be willing to lose in an attempt to win. I know which I'd rather watch. Jesus H fucking Christ...........I give up on here! Where in all that was written do I say I would prefer to watch a team of Guile over skill, or pulisball over Hughesball Hughes appointment was a breath of fresh air, he took the steel of Pulis side and interlaced it with the skill of Hughes side and it was perfect, basically he inherited a spine of a team that was second to none that knew how to defend and grind out a result when needed..... but hes fucked it!! He has not got a clue of late what his best side is or how to get the best out of it.
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Post by mrred on Nov 28, 2017 15:03:24 GMT
This thread would have been applicable 2 years ago, when a group of supporters (myself included) had enough and thought Hughes had reached his limit (and his football was shit then). However no, it's pretty universal that supporters want him out. I can't even get angry with Hughes because he's such a dour fucker. Whereas Pulis was a massively odious character. Two years ago this week we'd just qualified for the League Cup semi-final and absolutely played Manchester City off the park. And you wanted Hughes out then? You're right, that's a bit pre-mature. Tail end of that season and going into the next was around the time.
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Post by alster on Nov 28, 2017 15:57:48 GMT
So you want a team based on guile rather than skill just incase we are involved in a relegation dogfight because that kind of destroys any aspiration towards anything else. That's in defense of the appointment of the Hughes we first appointed not the one who's become nearly as negative as Pulis. It takes bollocks to get out of a relegation dog fight, it takes a different kind of bollocks be willing to lose in an attempt to win. I know which I'd rather watch. Jesus H fucking Christ...........I give up on here! Where in all that was written do I say I would prefer to watch a team of Guile over skill, or pulisball over Hughesball Hughes appointment was a breath of fresh air, he took the steel of Pulis side and interlaced it with the skill of Hughes side and it was perfect, basically he inherited a spine of a team that was second to none that knew how to defend and grind out a result when needed..... but hes fucked it!! He has not got a clue of late what his best side is or how to get the best out of it. You're still not making clear what your preference is, I don't disagree that he has lost the plot and doesn't know his arse from his elbow but that doesn't lead me to wish to see a more Pulislike side I'd had enough of it and was one of a few thousand who made a stand and refused to renew. I don't miss any aspect of his management or excuse for football and I never want him or anyone similar in charge again. Hughes's biggest mistake is getting progressively more negative and trying to set the team up defensively to try to quell the blarting about 4 goal losses etc. Since early last season he's progressively sacrificed more and more attacking flair to try to become solider with disastrous results. We are now a team that doesn't commit bodies forward keeps loads of players behind the ball, does everything at a snails pace to try to avoid mistakes and is shit to watch. Why not just go back to being a team that goes all out to win games and take our beatings as they come I'm sure we won't finish up any worse off points wise and we might actually be able to enjoy the games again because as things stand even when we win (very rarely) we're dull as dishwater.
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