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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Nov 22, 2017 17:12:38 GMT
Sorry Alster, but I do not agree.... The attitude point is very valid due to his present situation. I was on a "golden" trajectory profile (High performer, Future Diamond) until the situation above happened. My attitude changed, I lost focus etc etc... I became like Jese in a way. Situations like this cannot be underestimated and for it to be dismissed so lightly is remiss. I remember when Jese first arrived and he was a pretty effective player for us. We were perky, zipping the ball about... the child was born and suddenly he changed.... It is not difficult to see why. Yes he may not be doing what he is supposed to be (accusations of not looking after the kids as much as he should be) but we all deal with it in different ways... but overall it will be a massivel distraction. No doubt but his points re Ramadan over Jese were pertinent and not against Jese and you really laid into him. His opinion between Ramadan and Jese are open to opinion. It was his 'attitude' comment and dismissal to acknowledge the effect of an ill child that I take great issue with.
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ramin
Academy Starlet
Posts: 126
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Post by ramin on Nov 22, 2017 17:27:17 GMT
Ramadan is ours, Jese isn't. Ramadan is 20 years old, Jese isn't. Ramadan is a hard worker who works his socks off for the team, Jese isn't. Every minute on the pitch for Ramadan is helping his development which is useful for us in the long term. Jese has to be way better than Ramadan to deserve his place and game time. which he isn't I was with you till you wrote that I don't think the role is doing him any good at all. Its stifling his attacking instincts it would only be helping his development if you were thinking of developing him as a wingback and personally I think he's too slow for that role. Agreed it's not ideal for him. but playing time in the wrong position is better than the bench. and I don't think there's a chance for our youngsters to develop significantly under Mark Hughes.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 22, 2017 17:38:18 GMT
Wow that was a bit ott he made a valid point without being particularly derogatory to Jese and certainly not anything about the situation with his child Sorry Alster, but I do not agree.... The attitude point is very valid due to his present situation. I was on a "golden" trajectory profile (High performer, Future Diamond) until the situation above happened. My attitude changed, I lost focus etc etc... I became like Jese in a way. Situations like this cannot be underestimated and for it to be dismissed so lightly is remiss. I remember when Jese first arrived and he was a pretty effective player for us. We were perky, zipping the ball about... the child was born and suddenly he changed.... It is not difficult to see why. Yes he may not be doing what he is supposed to be (accusations of not looking after the kids as much as he should be) but we all deal with it in different ways... but overall it will be a massivel distraction. Your story sounds awful and I sympathise very much. I have children myself. It would be best for all concerned if Jese were to simply return to Spain and be with his child. The fact is he is offering nothing to stoke, but understandably so. Though personally, I would find playing football to be a tonic, he may feel that way and is not being selected on merit?
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Post by datguy on Nov 22, 2017 17:40:08 GMT
What a fucked up thing to say.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2017 17:52:15 GMT
Wow that was a bit ott he made a valid point without being particularly derogatory to Jese and certainly not anything about the situation with his child Sorry Alster, but I do not agree.... The attitude point is very valid due to his present situation. I was on a "golden" trajectory profile (High performer, Future Diamond) until the situation above happened. My attitude changed, I lost focus etc etc... I became like Jese in a way. Situations like this cannot be underestimated and for it to be dismissed so lightly is remiss. I remember when Jese first arrived and he was a pretty effective player for us. We were perky, zipping the ball about... the child was born and suddenly he changed.... It is not difficult to see why. Yes he may not be doing what he is supposed to be (accusations of not looking after the kids as much as he should be) but we all deal with it in different ways... but overall it will be a massivel distraction. His kid was born before we signed him.
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 22, 2017 17:55:03 GMT
Good luck to him and his family. Hard to say how much his personal situation is affecting his play, I'd say. Some people respond to personal issues by throwing themselves into their work others can't get their heads straight so we have no right to make a judgment on that. None the less we still need a reliable goal scorer and Hughes and the transfer team are not delivering on this and haven't done so for way too long. We should never have been in the position of making another last minute loan signing to fill a yawning hole in our squad. Surely a lesson should have been learnt after Bony......a full year earlier.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2017 18:00:26 GMT
Good luck to him and his family. Hard to say how much his personal situation is affecting his play, I'd say. Some people respond to personal issues by throwing themselves into their work others can't get their heads straight so we have no right to make a judgment on that. None the less we still need a reliable goal scorer and Hughes and the transfer team are not delivering on this and haven't done so for way too long. We should never have been in the position of making another last minute loan signing to fill a yawning hole in our squad. Surely a lesson should have been learnt after Bony......a full year earlier. What I question and people won't like this, is that we knew of this situation before he signed or should have done. Why sign him? He's not going to be right is he? It's a massive horrible thing and he's hundreds/thousands of miles from the situation. And with that I also question him. I get why he'd want to play and come to the PL but with that going on wouldn't you move closer to it or take a year off completely? He can afford to. As you say people respond to things differently so it's hard to say what someone should or shouldn't do. But the option he took doesn't appear to be the best now we know what we do.
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 22, 2017 18:09:27 GMT
Good luck to him and his family. Hard to say how much his personal situation is affecting his play, I'd say. Some people respond to personal issues by throwing themselves into their work others can't get their heads straight so we have no right to make a judgment on that. None the less we still need a reliable goal scorer and Hughes and the transfer team are not delivering on this and haven't done so for way too long. We should never have been in the position of making another last minute loan signing to fill a yawning hole in our squad. Surely a lesson should have been learnt after Bony......a full year earlier. What I question and people won't like this, is that we knew of this situation before he signed or should have done. Why sign him? He's not going to be right is he? It's a massive horrible thing and he's hundreds/thousands of miles from the situation. And with that I also question him. I get why he'd want to play and come to the PL but with that going on wouldn't you move closer to it or take a year off completely? He can afford to. As you say people respond to things differently so it's hard to say what someone should or shouldn't do. But the option he took doesn't appear to be the best now we know what we do. If indeed there was any knowledge of this before we loaned him from PSG it shouldn't have been up to him to make any decisions that may have affected our season. We simply should not have signed him. Our transfer policy is increasingly becoming a disorganised mess. It's just not good enough as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Nov 22, 2017 18:18:25 GMT
Good luck to him and his family. Hard to say how much his personal situation is affecting his play, I'd say. Some people respond to personal issues by throwing themselves into their work others can't get their heads straight so we have no right to make a judgment on that. None the less we still need a reliable goal scorer and Hughes and the transfer team are not delivering on this and haven't done so for way too long. We should never have been in the position of making another last minute loan signing to fill a yawning hole in our squad. Surely a lesson should have been learnt after Bony......a full year earlier. We have the centre forward we need and he is playing at Right wing back. Some harsh comments on here for a bloke who has a desperately ill kid. Stand by the player through his tough time and maybe he will appreciate it and we will see the best of him on the other side.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2017 18:21:22 GMT
What I question and people won't like this, is that we knew of this situation before he signed or should have done. Why sign him? He's not going to be right is he? It's a massive horrible thing and he's hundreds/thousands of miles from the situation. And with that I also question him. I get why he'd want to play and come to the PL but with that going on wouldn't you move closer to it or take a year off completely? He can afford to. As you say people respond to things differently so it's hard to say what someone should or shouldn't do. But the option he took doesn't appear to be the best now we know what we do. If indeed there was any knowledge of this before we loaned him from PSG it shouldn't have been up to him to make any decisions that may have affected our season. We simply should not have signed him. Our transfer policy is increasingly becoming a disorganised mess. It's just not good enough as far as I'm concerned. There should have been as he was born before we signed him I believe. It's such a terribly sad story.
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Post by roylandstoke on Nov 22, 2017 18:22:25 GMT
No doubt but his points re Ramadan over Jese were pertinent and not against Jese and you really laid into him. His opinion between Ramadan and Jese are open to opinion. It was his 'attitude' comment and dismissal to acknowledge the effect of an ill child that I take great issue with. If we are to believe the linked story where Jese's missus is quoted, then ramin isn't the only one who is questioning Jese's "attitude".
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 22, 2017 18:24:37 GMT
I suppose going into this season Shaqiri was an unknown quantity. Jese could turn out to be a decent loan to fill in for Shaq's absences, step up for a few games over the condensed xmas period etc. Seems to be that creative type, and under the circumstances, being ring rusty etc etc, he shouldn't have the expectations of game time a permanent signing of his ilk would. So a good back up plan.
Having said that, I still don't really know what to make of him, Seen some sugar and some shit so far. He doesn't look particularly weak on the ball, but easily gets knocked off it in a chase it seems.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 18:31:36 GMT
Another bang average player. If he was something "Special" He wouldn't be out on loan here would be? ...and you could argue the same for every single one of our players, except Butland. They are here, at a bog-average Premier League club, because it's their level.
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 22, 2017 18:51:17 GMT
Good luck to him and his family. Hard to say how much his personal situation is affecting his play, I'd say. Some people respond to personal issues by throwing themselves into their work others can't get their heads straight so we have no right to make a judgment on that. None the less we still need a reliable goal scorer and Hughes and the transfer team are not delivering on this and haven't done so for way too long. We should never have been in the position of making another last minute loan signing to fill a yawning hole in our squad. Surely a lesson should have been learnt after Bony......a full year earlier. We have the centre forward we need and he is playing at Right wing back. Some harsh comments on here for a bloke who has a desperately ill kid. Stand by the player through his tough time and maybe he will appreciate it and we will see the best of him on the other side. There may be some harsh comments on this thread but mine are not harsh. You're making my point for me about Hughes use of centre forwards, I've championed Diouf as our best striker option for ages.......Hughes clearly doesn't agree however.
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 22, 2017 18:55:53 GMT
If indeed there was any knowledge of this before we loaned him from PSG it shouldn't have been up to him to make any decisions that may have affected our season. We simply should not have signed him. Our transfer policy is increasingly becoming a disorganised mess. It's just not good enough as far as I'm concerned. There should have been as he was born before we signed him I believe. It's such a terribly sad story. Yes , gotta feel for him that's for sure, I'm certainly not making any judgements of him and wish him and his family the best of luck. That aside though, if, as you say there was knowledge before we loaned him that makes the decision truly mystifying.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 22, 2017 19:09:21 GMT
If indeed there was any knowledge of this before we loaned him from PSG it shouldn't have been up to him to make any decisions that may have affected our season. We simply should not have signed him. Our transfer policy is increasingly becoming a disorganised mess. It's just not good enough as far as I'm concerned. There should have been as he was born before we signed him I believe. It's such a terribly sad story. Even if we knew the situation at the time the chances are no-one would have known how things might pan out - and it's turned out to be an awful situation. Jesse said himself he wanted to play as a way of dealing with the situation - so what should the club do? I'm just proud to be associated with a club with such a great track record for looking after it's players and I'm sure we'll do the best we can for him. From what I've seen he looks like a class act - and nothing like the Bony or Bojan situation. Bony couldn't be arsed and Bojan has lost his bottle. Jesse looks like he's struggling to get back to full match fitness and getting used to the players around him - as well as dealing with what's going on in his personal life. I'm not seeing a player who isn't trying or ducking out of tackles. First things first - I hope everything in his private life comes good. After that I hope he lives up to his potential. If he does he could become one of the best players ever to play for us.
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Post by neddy on Nov 22, 2017 19:21:03 GMT
There should have been as he was born before we signed him I believe. It's such a terribly sad story. Even if we knew the situation at the time the chances are no-one would have known how things might pan out - and it's turned out to be an awful situation. Jesse said himself he wanted to play as a way of dealing with the situation - so what should the club do? I'm just proud to be associated with a club with such a great track record for looking after it's players and I'm sure we'll do the best we can for him. From what I've seen he looks like a class act - and nothing like the Bony or Bojan situation. Bony couldn't be arsed and Bojan has lost his bottle. Jesse looks like he's struggling to get back to full match fitness and getting used to the players around him - as well as dealing with what's going on in his personal life. I'm not seeing a player who isn't trying or ducking out of tackles. First things first - I hope everything in his private life comes good. After that I hope he lives up to his potential. If he does he could become one of the best players ever to play for us. I would like to see him play alongside Crouch! Both intelligent footballers and I could see it working? I would give it a go anyway.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 22, 2017 19:23:01 GMT
Clearly his situation is extremely sad and given the circumstances we find ourselves in the club is absolutely right to support him even if that simply means paying him for a year to send him home. However it's equally plain that the diligence on this deal was simply appalling .
1 Bad injury 2 Failed loan eisewhere 3,Reputation of questionable attitude 4 Major Family issue in Spain already clear
Given the fact that we are so desperate to be self sufficient and look after the pennies this is just an insane risk with precious resources our transfer strategy yet again exposed as shambolic
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2017 19:31:13 GMT
There should have been as he was born before we signed him I believe. It's such a terribly sad story. Even if we knew the situation at the time the chances are no-one would have known how things might pan out - and it's turned out to be an awful situation. Jesse said himself he wanted to play as a way of dealing with the situation - so what should the club do? I'm just proud to be associated with a club with such a great track record for looking after it's players and I'm sure we'll do the best we can for him. From what I've seen he looks like a class act - and nothing like the Bony or Bojan situation. Bony couldn't be arsed and Bojan has lost his bottle. Jesse looks like he's struggling to get back to full match fitness and getting used to the players around him - as well as dealing with what's going on in his personal life. I'm not seeing a player who isn't trying or ducking out of tackles. First things first - I hope everything in his private life comes good. After that I hope he lives up to his potential. If he does he could become one of the best players ever to play for us. How does he look a class act? Genuine question btw. I've just seen a player whose body can't cash the cheques his head writing. He's slow, got no real tricks, gives it away etc. He looks a real spent force.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 22:37:03 GMT
NO....Hes done better than him from the first game
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Post by Gods on Nov 22, 2017 23:24:02 GMT
Even if we knew the situation at the time the chances are no-one would have known how things might pan out - and it's turned out to be an awful situation. Jesse said himself he wanted to play as a way of dealing with the situation - so what should the club do? I'm just proud to be associated with a club with such a great track record for looking after it's players and I'm sure we'll do the best we can for him. From what I've seen he looks like a class act - and nothing like the Bony or Bojan situation. Bony couldn't be arsed and Bojan has lost his bottle. Jesse looks like he's struggling to get back to full match fitness and getting used to the players around him - as well as dealing with what's going on in his personal life. I'm not seeing a player who isn't trying or ducking out of tackles. First things first - I hope everything in his private life comes good. After that I hope he lives up to his potential. If he does he could become one of the best players ever to play for us. How does he look a class act? Genuine question btw. I've just seen a player whose body can't cash the cheques his head writing. He's slow, got no real tricks, gives it away etc. He looks a real spent force. Sparky said "everyone can see he is an 'elite' player" (whatever that might be) in one of his post match interviews and pretty much hasn't played him since! I do agree with the posters who say they'd like to see him start against opposition where we are more likely to be on the front foot, I haven't quite given up on him yet, nearly but not quite!
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 22, 2017 23:40:07 GMT
How does he look a class act? Genuine question btw. I've just seen a player whose body can't cash the cheques his head writing. He's slow, got no real tricks, gives it away etc. He looks a real spent force. Sparky said "everyone can see he is an 'elite' player" (whatever that might be) in one of his post match interviews and pretty much hasn't played him since! I do agree with the posters who say they'd like to see him start against opposition where we are more likely to be on the front foot, I haven't quite given up on him yet, nearly but not quite! What's to give up on? Creative back up on loan who hasn't featured that much yet. But scored against Arsenal. So far.
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Post by potterpaul on Nov 22, 2017 23:49:48 GMT
How come every time a player as a spell out of starting XI they automatically become "shit" and a surplus to requirements this has happened to Crouch, Adam and Ireland in recent seasons and now Jesé is getting same treatment. If I remember correctly his last game was quite decent and pushing for MoM according to most on here. The 3 I mention are aging a bit and with Ireland being plagued with injury but they have all proved to be excellent players for us.
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Post by Gods on Nov 23, 2017 0:02:47 GMT
Sparky said "everyone can see he is an 'elite' player" (whatever that might be) in one of his post match interviews and pretty much hasn't played him since! I do agree with the posters who say they'd like to see him start against opposition where we are more likely to be on the front foot, I haven't quite given up on him yet, nearly but not quite! What's to give up on?
Creative back up on loan who hasn't featured that much yet. But scored against Arsenal. So far. Well, whether he might play any further meaningful part in the 26 games that remain in his loan period, and whether if he does he might do enough for us to make a bid to make his signing permanent in the summer. From what I have seen once Sparky gives up on you, he gives up on you, see Bony and Joselu and Diouf up front as evidence of that. So my best guess is that the answers are 'no' and 'no', but I may be wrong, I often am
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 23, 2017 0:07:37 GMT
What's to give up on?
Creative back up on loan who hasn't featured that much yet. But scored against Arsenal. So far. Well, whether he might play any further meaningful part in the 26 games that remain in his loan period, and whether if he does he might do enough for us to make a bid to make his signing permanent in the summer. My best guess based on what little I have seen is that the answers are 'no' and 'no', but I may be wrong, I often am With 26 games to go that's unnecessary fretting at best ain't it? Ok. Thumbs up.
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Post by Gods on Nov 23, 2017 0:09:41 GMT
Well, whether he might play any further meaningful part in the 26 games that remain in his loan period, and whether if he does he might do enough for us to make a bid to make his signing permanent in the summer. My best guess based on what little I have seen is that the answers are 'no' and 'no', but I may be wrong, I often am With 26 games to go that's unnecessary fretting at best ain't it? Ok. Thumbs up. Fretting is what I do best, well most of anyway!
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Nov 23, 2017 0:25:54 GMT
With 26 games to go that's unnecessary fretting at best ain't it? Ok. Thumbs up. Fretting is what I do best, well most of anyway! I actually appreciate the fact that you've got our backs. Already panned out the worst scenarios. It can get better than that. Often does.
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Post by Gods on Nov 23, 2017 1:01:57 GMT
Fretting is what I do best, well most of anyway! I actually appreciate the fact that you've got our backs. Already panned out the worst scenarios. It can get better than that. Often does. Ha! It's my coping mechanism, expect the worst and things will either turn out just as you thought or you may even be pleasantly surprised
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Post by professorplump on Nov 23, 2017 2:30:58 GMT
We seem to have a knack of creating/inheriting these clusterfucks. Yep, that's because we don't want to spend big money buying players at the peak of their career. We still have the 'Battersea Dogs Home' mentality with many of our signings.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 23, 2017 2:45:25 GMT
He's got a lot going on behind the scenes and within his family life, hes a human being afterall and i know my worklife would suffer with a severely ill child of mine was in hospital in another country. i think he's a credit that he still trains and wants to play in the matches. We're judging him after a spell in which he played a lot of good sides and good defenders. Took his goal well against arsenal and i back him to perform in another run in the side. Cant be worse than Ramadan. Ramadan is ours, Jese isn't. Ramadan is 20 years old, Jese isn't. Ramadan is a hard worker who works his socks off for the team, Jese isn't. Every minute on the pitch for Ramadan is helping his development which is useful for us in the long term. Jese has to be way better than Ramadan to deserve his place and game time. which he isn't Spot on.
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