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Post by simple on Nov 3, 2017 16:20:45 GMT
Lets show the world that we support our armed forces both past and present tomorrow,by giving them a rapturous applause tomorrow when they parade around the ground.
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Post by Davef on Nov 3, 2017 16:30:01 GMT
Goes without saying doesn't it?
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Post by Dutchpeter on Nov 3, 2017 16:58:31 GMT
Any matelots parading? I'll man the grog table as they pass  |
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Post by walrus on Nov 3, 2017 17:17:58 GMT
As long as no attempts are made to co-opt the poppy symbol as an icon for "Support Our Troops". It's a symbol of peace and a reminder of the horrors of war, and to avoid them.
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Post by woodstein on Nov 3, 2017 17:32:30 GMT
As long as no attempts are made to co-opt the poppy symbol as an icon for "Support Our Troops". It's a symbol of peace and a reminder of the horrors of war, and to avoid them. Well the poppy money goes towards our troops who have been injured etc, it doesn't go towards peace. Most folk are happy to help our brave forces by purchasing them. |
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Post by alster on Nov 3, 2017 17:36:46 GMT
Lets show the world that we support our armed forces both past and present tomorrow,by giving them a rapturous applause tomorrow when they parade around the ground. Not heard anything about that happening. If they parade before kick off I'll probably miss it but if they do it at half time I'll be sure to give them a big hand. |
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Post by Jimmyg on Nov 3, 2017 17:49:46 GMT
Goes without saying doesn't it? and people think trumps crazy  |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 3, 2017 17:59:38 GMT
As long as no attempts are made to co-opt the poppy symbol as an icon for "Support Our Troops". It's a symbol of peace and a reminder of the horrors of war, and to avoid them. It is certainly a symbol of peace and a reminder of the horrors of war but it is also a symbol of remembrance for all troops who died and suffered in war. As said above, the money collected by the sale of poppies and collections associated with Remembrance Day, goes to Forces charities. We shouldn't delude ourselves that it isn't about support for our troops - because they are at the heart of what the poppies are all about. |
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Nov 3, 2017 18:04:20 GMT
Hopefully there are plenty in the ground to show their support  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 18:06:32 GMT
Hopefully there are plenty in the ground to show their support |
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Post by alster on Nov 3, 2017 18:10:46 GMT
Hopefully there are plenty in the ground to show their support Has anyone noticed that the roadworks done in the closed season, the extra lane off the A50 actually make it slower getting to the stadium, bizarre. |
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Post by alster on Nov 3, 2017 18:13:51 GMT
As long as no attempts are made to co-opt the poppy symbol as an icon for "Support Our Troops". It's a symbol of peace and a reminder of the horrors of war, and to avoid them. It is certainly a symbol of peace and a reminder of the horrors of war but it is also a symbol of remembrance for all troops who died and suffered in war. As said above, the money collected by the sale of poppies and collections associated with Remembrance Day, goes to Forces charities. We shouldn't delude ourselves that it isn't about support for our troops - because they are at the heart of what the poppies are all about. Why would anyone not want to support our troops. They do some horrible jobs in some awful places. The conflicts are not of their choosing. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 3, 2017 18:28:46 GMT
It is certainly a symbol of peace and a reminder of the horrors of war but it is also a symbol of remembrance for all troops who died and suffered in war. As said above, the money collected by the sale of poppies and collections associated with Remembrance Day, goes to Forces charities. We shouldn't delude ourselves that it isn't about support for our troops - because they are at the heart of what the poppies are all about. Why would anyone not want to support our troops. They do some horrible jobs in some awful places. The conflicts are not of their choosing. Agreed. Your last sentence sums it all up. Some people join the forces and never see action. Others pay with their lives or end up disabled. In most cases they have little say in which way things will turn out for them. I lived and worked in PLymouth at the time of the Falklands conflict. In the years before the conflict the Forces people I knew, mainly Marines and the Navy, seemed to have a pretty good (and safe!} life. By the end of a very short conflict, I personally had 5 friends who had died and a few more who suffered serious or less serious injures. I was never anti armed forces - but after the Falklands I've had huge respect for all Service personnel ever since. |
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Post by alster on Nov 3, 2017 18:40:52 GMT
Why would anyone not want to support our troops. They do some horrible jobs in some awful places. The conflicts are not of their choosing. Agreed. Your last sentence sums it all up. Some people join the forces and never see action. Others pay with their lives or end up disabled. In most cases they have little say in which way things will turn out for them. I lived and worked in PLymouth at the time of the Falklands conflict. In the years before the conflict the Forces people I knew, mainly Marines and the Navy, seemed to have a pretty good (and safe!} life. By the end of a very short conflict, I personally had 5 friends who had died and a few more who suffered serious or less serious injures. I was never anti armed forces - but after the Falklands I've had huge respect for all Service personnel ever since. Unfortunately their political masters choose the conflicts very often unwisely. If they chose to do a lap of the ground I think they might get an altogether different response. I'm a dyed in the wool Labour voter but I would certainly be more likely to boo than applaud them of whichever colour, self serving parasites the vast majority of them |
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Post by Jimmyg on Nov 3, 2017 18:55:14 GMT
Agreed. Your last sentence sums it all up. Some people join the forces and never see action. Others pay with their lives or end up disabled. In most cases they have little say in which way things will turn out for them. I lived and worked in PLymouth at the time of the Falklands conflict. In the years before the conflict the Forces people I knew, mainly Marines and the Navy, seemed to have a pretty good (and safe!} life. By the end of a very short conflict, I personally had 5 friends who had died and a few more who suffered serious or less serious injures. I was never anti armed forces - but after the Falklands I've had huge respect for all Service personnel ever since. Unfortunately their political masters choose the conflicts very often unwisely. If they chose to do a lap of the ground I think they might get an altogether different response. I'm a dyed in the wool Labour voter but I would certainly be more likely to boo than applaud them of whichever colour, self serving parasites the vast majority of them problem is this is basically a recruitment day for the military,so supporting this only resonates to the younger people and the cycle continues. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 3, 2017 19:07:35 GMT
Agreed. Your last sentence sums it all up. Some people join the forces and never see action. Others pay with their lives or end up disabled. In most cases they have little say in which way things will turn out for them. I lived and worked in PLymouth at the time of the Falklands conflict. In the years before the conflict the Forces people I knew, mainly Marines and the Navy, seemed to have a pretty good (and safe!} life. By the end of a very short conflict, I personally had 5 friends who had died and a few more who suffered serious or less serious injures. I was never anti armed forces - but after the Falklands I've had huge respect for all Service personnel ever since. Unfortunately their political masters choose the conflicts very often unwisely. If they chose to do a lap of the ground I think they might get an altogether different response. I'm a dyed in the wool Labour voter but I would certainly be more likely to boo than applaud them of whichever colour, self serving parasites the vast majority of them Alster agree with most of your post ...........Blair with Iraq and possibly Afghanistan & Cameron with Libya. However one stand out recent conflict categorically was not the result of politicians fuckups is the Falklands War. Quite the opposite in fact because neither Margaret Thatcher nor John Nott wanted to, or believed we had the capability to, send a task force to retake the Falklands. Step in Chief of Defence Staff Admiral Lewin who told the cabinet that if we didn’t respond we would lose credibility across the globe within months if not weeks. He gave the reassurance that he could put together a task force within days to sail and put pressure on the Argies that we meant business. The rest is history. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 3, 2017 19:09:47 GMT
Unfortunately their political masters choose the conflicts very often unwisely. If they chose to do a lap of the ground I think they might get an altogether different response. I'm a dyed in the wool Labour voter but I would certainly be more likely to boo than applaud them of whichever colour, self serving parasites the vast majority of them Alster agree with most of your post ...........Blair with Iraq and possibly Afghanistan & Cameron with Libya. However one stand out recent conflict categorically was not the result of politicians fuckups is the Falklands War. Quite the opposite in fact because neither Margaret Thatcher nor John Nott wanted to, or believed we had the capability to, send a task force to retake the Falklands. Step in Chief of Defence Staff Admiral Lewin who told the cabinet that if we didn’t respond we would lose credibility across the globe within months if not weeks. He gave the reassurance that he could put together a task force within days to sail and put pressure on the Argies that we meant business. The rest is history. Didn't the Tories doing their usual and cutting ships give the Argies the encouragement that we didn't care? |
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Post by salopstick on Nov 3, 2017 19:19:41 GMT
Unfortunately their political masters choose the conflicts very often unwisely. If they chose to do a lap of the ground I think they might get an altogether different response. I'm a dyed in the wool Labour voter but I would certainly be more likely to boo than applaud them of whichever colour, self serving parasites the vast majority of them Alster agree with most of your post ...........Blair with Iraq and possibly Afghanistan & Cameron with Libya. However one stand out recent conflict categorically was not the result of politicians fuckups is the Falklands War. Quite the opposite in fact because neither Margaret Thatcher nor John Nott wanted to, or believed we had the capability to, send a task force to retake the Falklands. Step in Chief of Defence Staff Admiral Lewin who told the cabinet that if we didn’t respond we would lose credibility across the globe within months if not weeks. He gave the reassurance that he could put together a task force within days to sail and put pressure on the Argies that we meant business. The rest is history. Depends on your point of view. People forget/don’t know/ etc of the good work done in the balkans Rwanda, UN tours et al, disaster relief and covering for every Tom Dick and Harry union that wants to go on strike |
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Post by adi on Nov 3, 2017 19:19:43 GMT
I’m going as a spectator tomorrow not with Work but I’ll be booing my boss under my breath 😉
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Post by simple on Nov 3, 2017 19:25:24 GMT
Has anyone noticed that the roadworks done in the closed season, the extra lane off the A50 actually make it slower getting to the stadium, bizarre. There as been plenty of notice about the roadworks,so using them as excuse for been late in the stadium is a bit thin.As for the new slip road it's fine,the problem is the idiots who stop there cars by the Harvester. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 3, 2017 19:26:44 GMT
Alster agree with most of your post ...........Blair with Iraq and possibly Afghanistan & Cameron with Libya. However one stand out recent conflict categorically was not the result of politicians fuckups is the Falklands War. Quite the opposite in fact because neither Margaret Thatcher nor John Nott wanted to, or believed we had the capability to, send a task force to retake the Falklands. Step in Chief of Defence Staff Admiral Lewin who told the cabinet that if we didn’t respond we would lose credibility across the globe within months if not weeks. He gave the reassurance that he could put together a task force within days to sail and put pressure on the Argies that we meant business. The rest is history. Didn't the Tories doing their usual and cutting ships give the Argies the encouragement that we didn't care? Yes several senior Naval Staff who I spoke to were convinced that the announcement to withdraw HMS Endurance from Falklands patrols and not to replace her was a huge mistake and sent the wrong message to the Argentinians who had always held hopes of gaining control of the Falklands. Some, when the non replacement was announced, predicted trouble if the decision was not reversed and of course they were proven correct - although I doubt even they would have predicted how costly the Falklands conflict would be in lives and money. Having said that, the plan was pretty well executed (with some famous exceptions) once the politicians had become convinced that a task force was feasible. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 19:27:14 GMT
Has anyone noticed that the roadworks done in the closed season, the extra lane off the A50 actually make it slower getting to the stadium, bizarre. There as been plenty of notice about the roadworks,so using them as excuse for been late in the stadium is a bit thin.As for the new slip road it's fine,the problem is the idiots who stop there cars by the Harvester. I can't leave Manchester any earlier than 10:30 so I'll be one of the excuse makers...... |
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Post by southstanddan on Nov 3, 2017 19:38:18 GMT
I’m going as a spectator tomorrow not with Work but I’ll be booing my boss under my breath 😉 If we go in uniform do we get a free oatcake or owt? |
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Post by simple on Nov 3, 2017 19:51:59 GMT
There as been plenty of notice about the roadworks,so using them as excuse for been late in the stadium is a bit thin.As for the new slip road it's fine,the problem is the idiots who stop there cars by the Harvester. I can't leave Manchester any earlier than 10:30 so I'll be one of the excuse makers...... Jump on the train easier,I do if I am away working. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 3, 2017 20:35:10 GMT
Alster agree with most of your post ...........Blair with Iraq and possibly Afghanistan & Cameron with Libya. However one stand out recent conflict categorically was not the result of politicians fuckups is the Falklands War. Quite the opposite in fact because neither Margaret Thatcher nor John Nott wanted to, or believed we had the capability to, send a task force to retake the Falklands. Step in Chief of Defence Staff Admiral Lewin who told the cabinet that if we didn’t respond we would lose credibility across the globe within months if not weeks. He gave the reassurance that he could put together a task force within days to sail and put pressure on the Argies that we meant business. The rest is history. Didn't the Tories doing their usual and cutting ships give the Argies the encouragement that we didn't care? Yes, John Notts Strategic Defence Review of 1981 of selling Hermes and Invincible to Oz, withdrawing HMS Endurance as South Atlantic Patrol ship plus the scrapping of amphibious assault ships Fearless and Intrepid and disbanding of 3 Commando Brigade certainly sent wrong signal to Argies. If they had delayed their invasion by six months these assets would have gone and Admiral Lewin would not have been able to assemble his task force for sure. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 3, 2017 20:47:48 GMT
Didn't the Tories doing their usual and cutting ships give the Argies the encouragement that we didn't care? Yes, John Notts Strategic Defence Review of 1981 of selling Hermes and Invincible to Oz, withdrawing HMS Endurance as South Atlantic Patrol ship plus the scrapping of amphibious assault ships Fearless and Intrepid and disbanding of 3 Commando Brigade certainly sent wrong signal to Argies. If they had delayed their invasion by six months these assets would have gone and Admiral Lewin would not have been able to assemble his task force for sure. Sad that the same thing with Ocean, Bulwark, Albion and more Marines being cut is around the corner. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 3, 2017 21:01:20 GMT
Yes, John Notts Strategic Defence Review of 1981 of selling Hermes and Invincible to Oz, withdrawing HMS Endurance as South Atlantic Patrol ship plus the scrapping of amphibious assault ships Fearless and Intrepid and disbanding of 3 Commando Brigade certainly sent wrong signal to Argies. If they had delayed their invasion by six months these assets would have gone and Admiral Lewin would not have been able to assemble his task force for sure. Sad that the same thing with Ocean, Bulwark, Albion and more Marines being cut is around the corner. Yes....the cost of 2 new aircraft carriers and the inability to crew them. What’s the point of a global strike force without amphibious capability. It’s been the Royal Navy's strength for decades. As you say, sadly about to disappear unless the new Defence Secretary can be persuaded otherwise. |
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Post by walrus on Nov 3, 2017 21:12:22 GMT
It is certainly a symbol of peace and a reminder of the horrors of war but it is also a symbol of remembrance for all troops who died and suffered in war. As said above, the money collected by the sale of poppies and collections associated with Remembrance Day, goes to Forces charities. We shouldn't delude ourselves that it isn't about support for our troops - because they are at the heart of what the poppies are all about. Why would anyone not want to support our troops. They do some horrible jobs in some awful places. The conflicts are not of their choosing. I don't want to not support our troops. I just object to the gradual erosion of the poppy symbol that has occurred in recent years. It started as a symbol of peace and a reminder to strive to avoid the horrors of all war, as well as to remember the war dead, regardless of their race or nationality. Nowadays some people seem to view it as a symbol of pride in the British military. Sadly there's been a concerted effort by far right groups to push this change in mindset as it feeds their hateful agenda. The original meaning is incredibly powerful and completely unpolitical. I want to keep it that way. |
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Post by woodstein on Nov 3, 2017 22:58:14 GMT
Why would anyone not want to support our troops. They do some horrible jobs in some awful places. The conflicts are not of their choosing. I don't want to not support our troops. I just object to the gradual erosion of the poppy symbol that has occurred in recent years. It started as a symbol of peace and a reminder to strive to avoid the horrors of all war, as well as to remember the war dead, regardless of their race or nationality. Nowadays some people seem to view it as a symbol of pride in the British military. Sadly there's been a concerted effort by far right groups to push this change in mindset as it feeds their hateful agenda. The original meaning is incredibly powerful and completely unpolitical. I want to keep it that way. Plenty of left wingers support our forces and the poppy appeal. Right wingers the world over support their own armed forces but not necessarily with a hateful agenda. That is tarring the poppy appeal to connect it. |
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Post by walrus on Nov 4, 2017 9:46:23 GMT
I don't want to not support our troops. I just object to the gradual erosion of the poppy symbol that has occurred in recent years. It started as a symbol of peace and a reminder to strive to avoid the horrors of all war, as well as to remember the war dead, regardless of their race or nationality. Nowadays some people seem to view it as a symbol of pride in the British military. Sadly there's been a concerted effort by far right groups to push this change in mindset as it feeds their hateful agenda. The original meaning is incredibly powerful and completely unpolitical. I want to keep it that way. That is tarring the poppy appeal to connect it. That’s exactly my point here. I support the poppy appeal and am currently wearing one. I’m also very appreciative of the efforts of the modern troops. But in my mind the two are and should remain unconnected. There have been cases over the last few years of groups like the EDL highjacking the poppy appeal. It’s them that are tarring the appeal by co-opting it for their cause, and I think the rest of us would do well to wise up to their tactics. That’s the only point I was making here. |
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