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Post by ted1965 on Oct 26, 2017 7:21:18 GMT
Having read much of the threads and the criticism and some of those defending Mark Hughes its difficult to know how the board will react if we lose this Saturday a win and many will say we’re in reasonable shape considering how tough our opening set of fixtures has been. If we lose badly I think he could be gone before the week is out.
I think it was three games that sadly defined the worries and doubts many are now experiencing. Newcastle, Bristol city and most of all Bournemouth last weekend, I have been of the opinion if the board told Mark Hughes its over as its become very stale and lacks imagination that would be fine with me. on the other hand if they took the decision to wait and see what the next month brings I would also understand the thinking. Mark Hughes has a reputation of starting season’s slowly and building steadily to a crescendo but that didn’t really happen last season we built to a point and then stalled horribly. It seems he has run dry of ideas which is always a dangerous position for any manager and the club, once the manager seems oblivious of the issues facing his side its time for a change of ideas and input.
He seems to be caught between several stools; yes injuries have once more played a part in not being able to play a settled system or side. I do sympathize to a degree but many other teams have similar injury issues but their manager's seem to adapt and change their thinking Mark seems to be lost in a haze of muddled ideas and looking for an excuse when things don’t work out.
The squad lacks depth in areas and an ability to change the direction of play from the bench. We have too many players who are all purpose but not that player Shaq apart who can change a game on their own. So many players are the same player just a different name on the shirt. As most have said if your intention was to play three at the back you need good energetic wing backs, not make do and hope options. Johnson is a busted flush, Cameron is a much better holding midfielder or centre half and MBD is a forward who can fill in if an injury occurs a stop gap option, it amazes everyone he didn’t insist on a quality wing back to make the system work.
Midfield is a mess, too many workers and little creativity but the workers often act more like headless chickens, trying to do things they can’t leaving us overrun and conceding ridiculous goals that should be preventable. We needed to find someone to sit with Fletcher and keep the ball moving and disrupt the opposition moving forward and most of all we lack real pace. Sometimes watching our players trying to make up ground is like watching Bambi running through quicksand.
The lack of goals is alarming Berahino, was never my choice I worried he was a one season wonder who allowed his ego to destroy the talent and when this happens its almost impossible to rediscover the ability that got you recognition in the first place. I hope a goal will spark him into life but for the life of me I can’t see where its coming from, an Oulare moment tomorrow would do me nicely. It’s a huge indictment on the clubs scouting and recruiting policy that Peter Crouch is still the best hope of a goal from our forwards, although Diouf is starting to score again which is something. Wimmer may become a quality signing in time but surely the money we spent on him would have been far better spent on a quality striker, we apparently tried to get Jansen if you believe the rumour mill but we had May to scout and recruit players why do the club still use that excuse of we have to wait for the big boys to finish before we see what's available, we are now an established Premier league club we should be more confident in our ability to recruit decent players earlier Southampton do it we need to believe a little more in the pull of the Premier league and a good solid club.
It’s a mess at the moment but Mark Hughes has a few games to sort out his thinking, clear your head Mark or sadly its time to clear your desk.
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2017 7:27:56 GMT
Berahino is a massive issue. I said a few months back, he alone will define Hughes' future.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 26, 2017 8:01:20 GMT
Managers today NEVER quit because it means they lose out on a ton of cash.
He looked lost and about to cry last Saturday against Bournemouth. Obviously no-one likes to get the sack because it tarnishes their overall reputation, but I think Hughes would be more relieved than angry if he got his P45 right now.
When a manager is resigned to losing his job (no pun intended), and doesnt have the fight to keep it then it really is time to lower the axe quickly
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 26, 2017 8:23:39 GMT
Just to be fair to Mark Hughes in terms of goals scored, ten teams have scored less goals than Stoke this season and one the same.
It's been a difficult run of fixtures for the club, I'm sure by Christmas on the basis he stays we will be in a much more healthy position.
The results against Arsenal and United tell me clearly that Hughes can turn this round, but we are about to find out if that's true.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 26, 2017 8:33:45 GMT
Having read much of the threads and the criticism and some of those defending Mark Hughes its difficult to know how the board will react if we lose this Saturday There are so many points to play for, I don't think a defeat in itself will prove fatal but if the players genuinely think he's a 'brilliant manager', they have to start playing for him. The attitude and is almost as important as the result on Saturday. Another 45 minutes like the first half against Bournemouth and there isn't really a decision for the supporters or Coates to make. The players will have made it. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 26, 2017 8:34:32 GMT
Just to be fair to Mark Hughes in terms of goals scored, ten teams have scored less goals than Stoke this season and one the same. It's been a difficult run of fixtures for the club, I'm sure by Christmas on the basis he stays we will be in a much more healthy position. The results against Arsenal and United tell me clearly that Hughes can turn this round, but we are about to find out if that's true. To be fair to everybody we've conceded 20 in 9 games, the worst in the division. |
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 26, 2017 8:37:54 GMT
Just to be fair to Mark Hughes in terms of goals scored, ten teams have scored less goals than Stoke this season and one the same. It's been a difficult run of fixtures for the club, I'm sure by Christmas on the basis he stays we will be in a much more healthy position. The results against Arsenal and United tell me clearly that Hughes can turn this round, but we are about to find out if that's true. To be fair to everybody we've conceded 20 in 9 games, the worst in the division. But 11 of those came in 2 games. 9 goals in the other 7 games doesn't look too bad. Edit - interestingly Liverpool have concede 16, Watford 17 and Palace 19. The one thing we all have in common is we've been battered by an in form Manchester City in the last month. |
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Post by ted1965 on Oct 26, 2017 8:39:26 GMT
I agree totally Momo the players as always when things are not going well share responsibility for their own performances and mistakes but it seems they are going out on the field at times with muddled minds and the manager has to make what he wants clear and then we will see if they carry it out. I want him to get back to a point when this all worked well because stability is what any club needs.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 26, 2017 8:43:58 GMT
To be fair to everybody we've conceded 20 in 9 games, the worst in the division. But 11 of those came in 2 games. 9 goals in the other 7 games doesn't look too bad. Saturday's opponents Watford conceded 6 against Man C and have also played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, so their other games, to have conceded 17, must be miraculous. A win at Bournemouth, Southampton and Swansea does help. |
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 26, 2017 8:56:46 GMT
Having read much of the threads and the criticism and some of those defending Mark Hughes its difficult to know how the board will react if we lose this Saturday There are so many points to play for, I don't think a defeat in itself will prove fatal but if the players genuinely think he's a 'brilliant manager', they have to start playing for him. The attitude and is almost as important as the result on Saturday. Another 45 minutes like the first half against Bournemouth and there isn't really a decision for the supporters or Coates to make. The players will have made it. Agree with most of that momo, but lets be clear a team doesn't take 4 points of two of the biggest clubs in Europe if the players aren't playing for him. It's the Bournemouth game that's caused the massive outcry against him this week, but those sort of results have always happened in football. |
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Post by ted1965 on Oct 26, 2017 9:00:22 GMT
I should have been a little clearer in how I phrased it, I meant how the board would react if we suffered a heavy loss, which I don't expect at all nor like some earlier who almost want it to happen.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 26, 2017 9:08:21 GMT
But 11 of those came in 2 games. 9 goals in the other 7 games doesn't look too bad. Saturday's opponents Watford conceded 6 against Man C and have also played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, so their other games, to have conceded 17, must be miraculous. A win at Bournemouth, Southampton and Swansea does help. Yes, ironically, in terms of Goal Difference, their -6 against Man City is the worst. I would still say defensively we've looked OK when we've had 3 fit CBs on the pitch. Our stats in the 2 home games v Man Utd and Arsenal, 2 free scoring teams this season are Played 2, Won 1, Drawn 1, Lost 0, GF 3, GA 2, GD +1. Edit - Watford have played Man City at home and Chelsea away and conceded 10 and scored 2. We've played them the other way around and conceded 11 and scored 2. Maybe we're not so different after all... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 9:21:49 GMT
Saturday's opponents Watford conceded 6 against Man C and have also played Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, so their other games, to have conceded 17, must be miraculous. A win at Bournemouth, Southampton and Swansea does help. Yes, ironically, in terms of Goal Difference, their -6 against Man City is the worst. Our stats in the 2 home games v Man Utd and Arsenal, 2 free scoring teams this season are Played 2, Won 1, Drawn 1, Lost 0, GF 3, GA 2, GD +1. Save it for your Grandkids 👍😁 |
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Post by march4 on Oct 26, 2017 9:24:35 GMT
There are so many points to play for, I don't think a defeat in itself will prove fatal but if the players genuinely think he's a 'brilliant manager', they have to start playing for him. The attitude and is almost as important as the result on Saturday. Another 45 minutes like the first half against Bournemouth and there isn't really a decision for the supporters or Coates to make. The players will have made it. Agree with most of that momo, but lets be clear a team doesn't take 4 points of two of the biggest clubs in Europe if the players aren't playing for him. It's the Bournemouth game that's caused the massive outcry against him this week, but those sort of results have always happened in football. The players' performances were raised by the occasion. The manager has seemingly been unable to motivate them for 18 months now. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 9:30:34 GMT
There are so many points to play for, I don't think a defeat in itself will prove fatal but if the players genuinely think he's a 'brilliant manager', they have to start playing for him. The attitude and is almost as important as the result on Saturday. Another 45 minutes like the first half against Bournemouth and there isn't really a decision for the supporters or Coates to make. The players will have made it. Agree with most of that momo, but lets be clear a team doesn't take 4 points of two of the biggest clubs in Europe if the players aren't playing for him. It's the Bournemouth game that's caused the massive outcry against him this week, but those sort of results have always happened in football. Geoff, people were looking at the Bournemouth game as one of "5 winnables", because we'd been largely poor this season to-date. There was also an expectation that we'd come out firing after the annihilation at Citeh. We were pathetic. On every level. But let's not pretend this is just about the Bournemouth game. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 26, 2017 9:40:00 GMT
Agree with most of that momo, but lets be clear a team doesn't take 4 points of two of the biggest clubs in Europe if the players aren't playing for him. It's the Bournemouth game that's caused the massive outcry against him this week, but those sort of results have always happened in football. Geoff, people were looking at the Bournemouth game as one of "5 winnables", because we'd been largely poor this season to-date. There was also an expectation that we'd come out firing after the annihilation at Citeh. We were pathetic. On every level. But let's not pretend this is just about the Bournemouth game. I disagree that we've been largely poor. Newcastle and Bournemouth were poor and that is the issue really...We need to perform against our peers and can't afford to play so poorly against them. |
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2017 9:41:26 GMT
I agree totally Momo the players as always when things are not going well share responsibility for their own performances and mistakes but it seems they are going out on the field at times with muddled minds and the manager has to make what he wants clear and then we will see if they carry it out. I want him to get back to a point when this all worked well because stability is what any club needs. As I see it Hughes has created the muddle by thinking he's smarter than he is constantly chopping and changing destroying players confidence. |
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 26, 2017 9:43:51 GMT
I agree Dave. The big reaction has been brought about by the Bournemouth game because of a poor performance and a defeat, at home, to a team we expected to beat.
Not many were suggesting Hughes should be replaced after the Manchester United game, or even the Southampton game.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 26, 2017 9:54:20 GMT
Agree with most of that momo, but lets be clear a team doesn't take 4 points of two of the biggest clubs in Europe if the players aren't playing for him. It's the Bournemouth game that's caused the massive outcry against him this week, but those sort of results have always happened in football. The players' performances were raised by the occasion. The manager has seemingly been unable to motivate them for 18 months now. I know most people on this Board would probably agree with your second sentence, also bear in mind I don't watch the live games anymore so I don't quite feel the frustration the same as those attending. All I can do March really is to look at the highligts of games and then the statistics and in both cases I feel reasonably happy with what I see, two points away from 8th place last season. You are saying in effect that 13th position, 2 points away from 8th position, proves Hughes isn't motivating the team, I disagree with that and point out that you supported Tony Pulis when he achieved less than that. |
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 26, 2017 10:06:10 GMT
Agree with most of that momo, but lets be clear a team doesn't take 4 points of two of the biggest clubs in Europe if the players aren't playing for him. It's the Bournemouth game that's caused the massive outcry against him this week, but those sort of results have always happened in football. Geoff, people were looking at the Bournemouth game as one of "5 winnables", because we'd been largely poor this season to-date. There was also an expectation that we'd come out firing after the annihilation at Citeh. We were pathetic. On every level. But let's not pretend this is just about the Bournemouth game. I can see why the Bournemouth game would leave fans angry, especially following the City game. I can also see that results have stalled under Hughes from the later stages of last season and the earlier part of this one. My postion on all this though is that Mark Hughes should be given a further run of games to see if he can get it right, sticking with Hughes after all involves less upheaval than appointing a new manager mid season. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 10:07:54 GMT
Personally, I think Hughes had us playing lovely, free-flowing football but for the last two seasons he doesn't know his ideal formation and hasn't been able to acquire the players to fulfill any strategy he wants us to employ. He seems muddled at best totally lost at worse.
When we've failed to land our targets he seems to have refused to go for second best: ie Soares going to Southampton
He needs to turn this round sharpish or we'll tailspin
I don't think he's got it left in him now
Hope I'm totally wrong 😬
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 10:10:10 GMT
Geoff, people were looking at the Bournemouth game as one of "5 winnables", because we'd been largely poor this season to-date. There was also an expectation that we'd come out firing after the annihilation at Citeh. We were pathetic. On every level. But let's not pretend this is just about the Bournemouth game. I disagree that we've been largely poor. Newcastle and Bournemouth were poor and that is the issue really...We need to perform against our peers and can't afford to play so poorly against them. I think we were bog-average at both Everton and West Brom, lost at Home to Chelsea before we'd even kicked off, very average again at Home to Southampton, pathetic away at Citeh, rubbish at Newcastle, diabolical vs Bournemouth. Other than that....👍😉 |
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Post by crapslinger on Oct 26, 2017 10:45:00 GMT
Berahino is a massive issue. I said a few months back, he alone will define Hughes' future. He is the cherry on the cake of fucked up signings by Mark and his team. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 26, 2017 10:48:32 GMT
I disagree that we've been largely poor. Newcastle and Bournemouth were poor and that is the issue really...We need to perform against our peers and can't afford to play so poorly against them. I think we were bog-average at both Everton and West Brom, lost at Home to Chelsea before we'd even kicked off, very average again at Home to Southampton, pathetic away at Citeh, rubbish at Newcastle, diabolical vs Bournemouth. Other than that....👍😉 I suppose we were lucky against manure and arsenal as well just for good measure? |
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Post by crapslinger on Oct 26, 2017 11:09:54 GMT
I agree Dave. The big reaction has been brought about by the Bournemouth game because of a poor performance and a defeat, at home, to a team we expected to beat. Not many were suggesting Hughes should be replaced after the Manchester United game, or even the Southampton game. Many including myself were suggesting he went last summer not this, the writing was on the wall then, since we have regressed our big money signings are awful our system is unsustainable without wing backs of which we have none, plan B is Crouch hoofball the manager is floundering and needs replacing urgently. |
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Post by marwood on Oct 26, 2017 11:14:09 GMT
Having read much of the threads and the criticism and some of those defending Mark Hughes its difficult to know how the board will react if we lose this Saturday a win and many will say we’re in reasonable shape considering how tough our opening set of fixtures has been. If we lose badly I think he could be gone before the week is out. I think it was three games that sadly defined the worries and doubts many are now experiencing. Newcastle, Bristol city and most of all Bournemouth last weekend, I have been of the opinion if the board told Mark Hughes its over as its become very stale and lacks imagination that would be fine with me. on the other hand if they took the decision to wait and see what the next month brings I would also understand the thinking. Mark Hughes has a reputation of starting season’s slowly and building steadily to a crescendo but that didn’t really happen last season we built to a point and then stalled horribly. It seems he has run dry of ideas which is always a dangerous position for any manager and the club, once the manager seems oblivious of the issues facing his side its time for a change of ideas and input. He seems to be caught between several stools; yes injuries have once more played a part in not being able to play a settled system or side. I do sympathize to a degree but many other teams have similar injury issues but their manager's seem to adapt and change their thinking Mark seems to be lost in a haze of muddled ideas and looking for an excuse when things don’t work out. The squad lacks depth in areas and an ability to change the direction of play from the bench. We have too many players who are all purpose but not that player Shaq apart who can change a game on their own. So many players are the same player just a different name on the shirt. As most have said if your intention was to play three at the back you need good energetic wing backs, not make do and hope options. Johnson is a busted flush, Cameron is a much better holding midfielder or centre half and MBD is a forward who can fill in if an injury occurs a stop gap option, it amazes everyone he didn’t insist on a quality wing back to make the system work. Midfield is a mess, too many workers and little creativity but the workers often act more like headless chickens, trying to do things they can’t leaving us overrun and conceding ridiculous goals that should be preventable. We needed to find someone to sit with Fletcher and keep the ball moving and disrupt the opposition moving forward and most of all we lack real pace. Sometimes watching our players trying to make up ground is like watching Bambi running through quicksand. The lack of goals is alarming Berahino, was never my choice I worried he was a one season wonder who allowed his ego to destroy the talent and when this happens its almost impossible to rediscover the ability that got you recognition in the first place. I hope a goal will spark him into life but for the life of me I can’t see where its coming from, an Oulare moment tomorrow would do me nicely. It’s a huge indictment on the clubs scouting and recruiting policy that Peter Crouch is still the best hope of a goal from our forwards, although Diouf is starting to score again which is something. Wimmer may become a quality signing in time but surely the money we spent on him would have been far better spent on a quality striker, we apparently tried to get Jansen if you believe the rumour mill but we had May to scout and recruit players why do the club still use that excuse of we have to wait for the big boys to finish before we see what's available, we are now an established Premier league club we should be more confident in our ability to recruit decent players earlier Southampton do it we need to believe a little more in the pull of the Premier league and a good solid club. It’s a mess at the moment but Mark Hughes has a few games to sort out his thinking, clear your head Mark or sadly its time to clear your desk. I read a variation of this quote on this message board every day ---- as if Peter's incredible longevity and goalscoring prowess is somehow the fault of the club. Surely the guy himself deserves some credit for keeping himself fit, being patient on the bench, having an incredible footballing brain, and being in the right place at the right time -game after game. |
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Post by Old School Stokie on Oct 26, 2017 11:14:13 GMT
I don't think Mark Hughes would lose any sleep in missing out on any financial settlement if he were to walk away. After all he's worth over £12.5 Million and at least richer than the footballers he manages. Its the fire in his belly that worries me and how he has a record of starting an appointment quite well and then it just seems to go flat. He needs to loan a hairdrier from Sir Alex and open his eyes. I also don't rate his backroom staff who have failed with him before
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Post by crapslinger on Oct 26, 2017 11:19:09 GMT
Having read much of the threads and the criticism and some of those defending Mark Hughes its difficult to know how the board will react if we lose this Saturday a win and many will say we’re in reasonable shape considering how tough our opening set of fixtures has been. If we lose badly I think he could be gone before the week is out. I think it was three games that sadly defined the worries and doubts many are now experiencing. Newcastle, Bristol city and most of all Bournemouth last weekend, I have been of the opinion if the board told Mark Hughes its over as its become very stale and lacks imagination that would be fine with me. on the other hand if they took the decision to wait and see what the next month brings I would also understand the thinking. Mark Hughes has a reputation of starting season’s slowly and building steadily to a crescendo but that didn’t really happen last season we built to a point and then stalled horribly. It seems he has run dry of ideas which is always a dangerous position for any manager and the club, once the manager seems oblivious of the issues facing his side its time for a change of ideas and input. He seems to be caught between several stools; yes injuries have once more played a part in not being able to play a settled system or side. I do sympathize to a degree but many other teams have similar injury issues but their manager's seem to adapt and change their thinking Mark seems to be lost in a haze of muddled ideas and looking for an excuse when things don’t work out. The squad lacks depth in areas and an ability to change the direction of play from the bench. We have too many players who are all purpose but not that player Shaq apart who can change a game on their own. So many players are the same player just a different name on the shirt. As most have said if your intention was to play three at the back you need good energetic wing backs, not make do and hope options. Johnson is a busted flush, Cameron is a much better holding midfielder or centre half and MBD is a forward who can fill in if an injury occurs a stop gap option, it amazes everyone he didn’t insist on a quality wing back to make the system work. Midfield is a mess, too many workers and little creativity but the workers often act more like headless chickens, trying to do things they can’t leaving us overrun and conceding ridiculous goals that should be preventable. We needed to find someone to sit with Fletcher and keep the ball moving and disrupt the opposition moving forward and most of all we lack real pace. Sometimes watching our players trying to make up ground is like watching Bambi running through quicksand. The lack of goals is alarming Berahino, was never my choice I worried he was a one season wonder who allowed his ego to destroy the talent and when this happens its almost impossible to rediscover the ability that got you recognition in the first place. I hope a goal will spark him into life but for the life of me I can’t see where its coming from, an Oulare moment tomorrow would do me nicely. It’s a huge indictment on the clubs scouting and recruiting policy that Peter Crouch is still the best hope of a goal from our forwards, although Diouf is starting to score again which is something. Wimmer may become a quality signing in time but surely the money we spent on him would have been far better spent on a quality striker, we apparently tried to get Jansen if you believe the rumour mill but we had May to scout and recruit players why do the club still use that excuse of we have to wait for the big boys to finish before we see what's available, we are now an established Premier league club we should be more confident in our ability to recruit decent players earlier Southampton do it we need to believe a little more in the pull of the Premier league and a good solid club. It’s a mess at the moment but Mark Hughes has a few games to sort out his thinking, clear your head Mark or sadly its time to clear your desk. I read a variation of this quote on this message board every day ---- as if Peter's incredible longevity and goalscoring prowess is somehow the fault of the club. Surely the guy himself deserves some credit for keeping himself fit, being patient on the bench, having an incredible footballing brain, and being in the right place at the right time -game after game. No one could ever accuse Crouch of not being a consummate pro, he has been a magnificent servant for our club and should be given a job with us after he retires, money well spent pity Mark has been unable to buy any player near as good as PC. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 11:34:42 GMT
Well? Stats undicate a slow lingering death in terms of our hard won premier league status, whether you look at the last 19 games or,direct comparisons with Koeman over a longer period.
FACTS are.we are not maintaining enough 3 point matches to retain our status. And I for one am absolutely sick and tired of tramping down that bloody hill and past the incinerator having watched us make horrible little football clubs look like Real fucking Madrid.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 26, 2017 12:04:27 GMT
I agree Dave. The big reaction has been brought about by the Bournemouth game because of a poor performance and a defeat, at home, to a team we expected to beat. Not many were suggesting Hughes should be replaced after the Manchester United game, or even the Southampton game. Many including myself were suggesting he went last summer not this, the writing was on the wall then, since we have regressed our big money signings are awful our system is unsustainable without wing backs of which we have none, plan B is Crouch hoofball the manager is floundering and needs replacing urgently. That's my point really. I know there was a lot of discontent after the end of last season, but he moved a couple of the older players out and brought in a number of new first team starters. After those 2 first home games against Arsenal and Manchester United, he looked to have fixed a few things. We were more solid, more competitive, more energetic and playing to our creative strengths. It felt like a new beginning. That's why I believe the Bournemouth game has turned the tide again. Injuries and players being rushed back hasn't helped, but I just hope it was a one off with this new look squad. I'm sure there is more to come from this group when we get our best players fit and confident. |
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