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Post by roylandstoke on Oct 26, 2017 20:55:15 GMT
Our squad has lots of good players but it is very unbalanced. We have no real RB and a striker who is OK at RWB. We have 1 LB and no LWB but we seem committed to playing 3 at the back(probably because we have 5 decent CBs).
We do have decent players and a good Plan B. We seem to have no clue about our best starting 11 or what Plan A should be.
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Our Squad
Oct 27, 2017 7:15:34 GMT
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Oct 27, 2017 7:15:34 GMT
A team of : Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters Cameron Fletcher Affelay Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in. The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City . Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent. On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day. It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered. I don't think we are relegation fodder. We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor. If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw. If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level. However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough. Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing. I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points. If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad. I don't see how you can make that a competitive team, where are the goals coming from there , nobody has a track record in that group for scoring.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 27, 2017 7:35:32 GMT
No player (or manager) is perfect - and the players for a mid table Premiership team are going to be less perfect than others. That being the case any fool can criticise - the material is there. To me being a supporter is getting behind the players even though you know full well they aren't perfect - and especially when things aren't going so great.
Fact of the matter is we have a lot of "supporters" who don't know how to support. They are far more concerned within airing their negative opinions and doing the club down at every opportunity. And if the manager and players change those same supporters will give the new lot a few months before turning on them for not being their idea of the perfect manager or perfect player.To make matters worse the moaners can't even agree among themselves about what would constitute the perfect manager and team, Some want youth, some experience, others want flair others want a return to Pulis style backs against the wall football, some want a foreign coach others want to stay British. Fact is we are never going to be in a position where everyone is happy. That being the case why not accept we're not the perfect team, enjoy Premiership football while it lasts and get behind the team we have. You never know it might even help motivate the team, get them through a sticky patch and help ensure another season in the Premiership.
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Our Squad
Oct 27, 2017 7:37:05 GMT
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Oct 27, 2017 7:37:05 GMT
If we are honest the signs were clear of a need to overhaul the squad following the sharp dip in form at the end of the 15-16 season . It still hasn't happened and it's been showing ever since.
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Post by alster on Oct 27, 2017 8:48:49 GMT
No player (or manager) is perfect - and the players for a mid table Premiership team are going to be less perfect than others. That being the case any fool can criticise - the material is there. To me being a supporter is getting behind the players even though you know full well they aren't perfect - and especially when things aren't going so great. Fact of the matter is we have a lot of "supporters" who don't know how to support. They are far more concerned within airing their negative opinions and doing the club down at every opportunity. And if the manager and players change those same supporters will give the new lot a few months before turning on them for not being their idea of the perfect manager or perfect player.To make matters worse the moaners can't even agree among themselves about what would constitute the perfect manager and team, Some want youth, some experience, others want flair others want a return to Pulis style backs against the wall football, some want a foreign coach others want to stay British. Fact is we are never going to be in a position where everyone is happy. That being the case why not accept we're not the perfect team, enjoy Premiership football while it lasts and get behind the team we have. You never know it might even help motivate the team, get them through a sticky patch and help ensure another season in the Premiership. Thats horse shit the team is well supported and has gotten away very lightly with nigh on two years of uninspiring performances. People on here have widely differing opinions and ambitions and I totally agree it would be virtually impossible to unite them behind anything. The things we want to see are in most cases polar opposites. Whatever coarse is taken the only way to keep those who wanted us to take a different path quiet is for the team to do whatever its doing well, that at least brings tolerance from the dissenters. Its simply impossible to bring twenty odd thousand people together and for them all to agree about everything. Its never been like that, unallocated terraces just made people think it was because like minded people grouped together and did not have any vehicle where they were exposed to the views of the whole spectrum of opinions like this site.
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Post by somersetstokie on Oct 27, 2017 9:00:51 GMT
Sorry you are correct, I did mean Chelsea !!! One of they London teams anyway.
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Post by Gods on Oct 27, 2017 9:49:04 GMT
No player (or manager) is perfect - and the players for a mid table Premiership team are going to be less perfect than others. That being the case any fool can criticise - the material is there. To me being a supporter is getting behind the players even though you know full well they aren't perfect - and especially when things aren't going so great. Fact of the matter is we have a lot of "supporters" who don't know how to support. They are far more concerned within airing their negative opinions and doing the club down at every opportunity. And if the manager and players change those same supporters will give the new lot a few months before turning on them for not being their idea of the perfect manager or perfect player.To make matters worse the moaners can't even agree among themselves about what would constitute the perfect manager and team, Some want youth, some experience, others want flair others want a return to Pulis style backs against the wall football, some want a foreign coach others want to stay British. Fact is we are never going to be in a position where everyone is happy. That being the case why not accept we're not the perfect team, enjoy Premiership football while it lasts and get behind the team we have. You never know it might even help motivate the team, get them through a sticky patch and help ensure another season in the Premiership. You make it sound like Brexit, a small majority voted out but the reasons were so diverse that there is no clear direction forward! In fairness we have been mostly wank for 22 months now and that's not going to pass unnoticed on a football message board!
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Post by skip on Oct 27, 2017 9:52:50 GMT
To offer a counter position, apart from the obvious candidates at the top table, there aren't many I can think of that I would want to sign. That is the job of the board they are the experts on appointing managers they have the final say, the supporters have pretty much turned on Hughes now, do you think Hughes would be able to get us back up if he takes us down ?No I don't in all truth, but I'm not sure we are in a position to bring in a manager designed to stave off relegation but also to be capable of taking us back up should it happen. I find all of this panic driven to be honest ...not that I think Leslie will be around for much longer at this rate.
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Post by crapslinger on Oct 27, 2017 10:08:43 GMT
No player (or manager) is perfect - and the players for a mid table Premiership team are going to be less perfect than others. That being the case any fool can criticise - the material is there. To me being a supporter is getting behind the players even though you know full well they aren't perfect - and especially when things aren't going so great. Fact of the matter is we have a lot of "supporters" who don't know how to support. They are far more concerned within airing their negative opinions and doing the club down at every opportunity. And if the manager and players change those same supporters will give the new lot a few months before turning on them for not being their idea of the perfect manager or perfect player.To make matters worse the moaners can't even agree among themselves about what would constitute the perfect manager and team, Some want youth, some experience, others want flair others want a return to Pulis style backs against the wall football, some want a foreign coach others want to stay British. Fact is we are never going to be in a position where everyone is happy. That being the case why not accept we're not the perfect team, enjoy Premiership football while it lasts and get behind the team we have. You never know it might even help motivate the team, get them through a sticky patch and help ensure another season in the Premiership. A sticky patch nearly two years of going backwards is a sticky patch FFS are you for real, Hughes has lost the plot here most can now see it, the crowd is turning against him he needs to go for the good of the club as a whole.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Oct 27, 2017 10:09:29 GMT
Think we have an average squad. An average squad that a bad manager/manager not doing well takes down, and a good manager can get into the top ten. Hughes is the former currently, so we're in trouble. Butland, Zouma & Shaqiri are our 3 standout players imo, but one of them isn't even ours Martins Indi, Shawcross, Allen, Diouf and a good Imbula can start Grant, Pieters, Cameron, Fletcher, Choupo, Bojan, Muniesa, Crouch have a place around the squad at least (+ youngsters) Jury's out on Johnson, Wimmer, Adam & Berahino Sorry you might have to explain that logic mate. a bad manager gets this squad relegated and hughes falls in this category? a good manager gets top half. did I just imagine 3 out of 4 seasons with hughes finishing...top half? it's a shame that many have simply made their mind up. would rather continously criticise the situation than get behind it and try to make it work. sometimes I think the word 'support' is sincerely lost on some folk. A bad manager could also be a manager going through a bad patch which looks to be hughes. Trying to 'make it work' it's been nearly 2 years now. Anyone would think Hughes owned the club the way he is defended
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Post by crapslinger on Oct 27, 2017 10:11:35 GMT
That is the job of the board they are the experts on appointing managers they have the final say, the supporters have pretty much turned on Hughes now, do you think Hughes would be able to get us back up if he takes us down ?No I don't in all truth, but I'm not sure we are in a position to bring in a manager designed to stave off relegation but also to be capable of taking us back up should it happen. I find all of this panic driven to be honest ...not that I think Leslie will be around for much longer at this rate. If we bring in a manager to stave off relegation he wouldn't need to bring us back up, it is looking likely that Hughes will do neither !. Panic driven is bull shit we have been going backwards for at least 18 months, the more he spends the worse we get £30 million sitting on the bench last Saturday is not acceptable at a club of our size.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 27, 2017 12:52:57 GMT
No player (or manager) is perfect - and the players for a mid table Premiership team are going to be less perfect than others. That being the case any fool can criticise - the material is there. To me being a supporter is getting behind the players even though you know full well they aren't perfect - and especially when things aren't going so great. Fact of the matter is we have a lot of "supporters" who don't know how to support. They are far more concerned within airing their negative opinions and doing the club down at every opportunity. And if the manager and players change those same supporters will give the new lot a few months before turning on them for not being their idea of the perfect manager or perfect player.To make matters worse the moaners can't even agree among themselves about what would constitute the perfect manager and team, Some want youth, some experience, others want flair others want a return to Pulis style backs against the wall football, some want a foreign coach others want to stay British. Fact is we are never going to be in a position where everyone is happy. That being the case why not accept we're not the perfect team, enjoy Premiership football while it lasts and get behind the team we have. You never know it might even help motivate the team, get them through a sticky patch and help ensure another season in the Premiership. You make it sound like Brexit, a small majority voted out but the reasons were so diverse that there is no clear direction forward! In fairness we have been mostly wank for 22 months now and that's not going to pass unnoticed on a football message board! I hadn't thought of it in those terms but you're right. Nobody actually had any idea what Brexit actually meant, voted for a change because it sounded like a good idea at the time without any real idea of the consequences and now we have a bunch of incompetent buffoons, half of whom didn't want it to happen in the first place, thrashing around trying to prevent the country from sinking without a trace. The parallels are indeed quite scary. The last 22 months haven't been great but blaming it all on the manager isn't doing the situation justice. People like to have scapegoats (the manager in the case of Stoke, the EU in terms of the country). Kill the goat and the problems go away - which of course simply isn't true. My take on the last 22 months is: Hughes inherited a solid Pulis era core and got the best out of them by adding a bit of quality around the edges. That core peaked in his third season and were in decline throughout last season. There is a good argument to say they should have been eased out earlier but because of some misfiring signings and injuries they weren't. The Pulis core has now been dismantled (rightly and if anything a season too late) and this really has now become Hughes' team. This was always going to be Hughes' toughest season and its going to take time for the new team to bed in. Whether it will or not remains to be seen. I don't buy into the idea that we're simply seeing 22 months of decline based on the same underlying reason - a "clueless" manager. Most of that period of decline was down to the Pulis era squad going past their sell by date and any manager would have been faced with the difficult job of building a new core. The current problems are down to a new squad bedding in. And that problem isn't going to magically go away if we change the manager or slaughter a few more goats.
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Post by skip on Oct 27, 2017 20:33:16 GMT
No I don't in all truth, but I'm not sure we are in a position to bring in a manager designed to stave off relegation but also to be capable of taking us back up should it happen. I find all of this panic driven to be honest ...not that I think Leslie will be around for much longer at this rate. If we bring in a manager to stave off relegation he wouldn't need to bring us back up, it is looking likely that Hughes will do neither !. Panic driven is bull shit we have been going backwards for at least 18 months, the more he spends the worse we get £30 million sitting on the bench last Saturday is not acceptable at a club of our size.One of the most prescient things I've read. That's on the money. Yep. Not good is it.
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Our Squad
Oct 27, 2017 20:38:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 20:38:51 GMT
I think we have one of the top six keepers in the league. I think we have some of the best centre backs in the league. Shaq would get into most sides. Diouf would get in a fair few too (the bloke scores goals). Past that I think it's squad players and lower. Who are these centre backs you speak of as being some of the best?
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Our Squad
Oct 27, 2017 21:17:20 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 27, 2017 21:17:20 GMT
I think we have one of the top six keepers in the league. I think we have some of the best centre backs in the league. Shaq would get into most sides. Diouf would get in a fair few too (the bloke scores goals). Past that I think it's squad players and lower. Who are these centre backs you speak of as being some of the best? All 4 of them.
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Our Squad
Oct 27, 2017 21:21:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 21:21:30 GMT
Who are these centre backs you speak of as being some of the best? All 4 of them. So you're trying to tell me that Wimmer,Shawcross and Indi are some of the best centre backs in this league? I haven't included Zouma because he's not our player and I know that you believe he's our 4th best centre half
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Our Squad
Oct 27, 2017 21:24:37 GMT
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Oct 27, 2017 21:24:37 GMT
A team of : Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters Cameron Fletcher Affelay Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in. The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City . Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent. On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day. It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered. I don't think we are relegation fodder. We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor. If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw. If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level. However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough. Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing. I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points. If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad. The 4-2-3-1 system is probably still our best bet. With shaqiri in the middle behind the striker.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 27, 2017 21:25:01 GMT
Constantly argued this is the worst squad in our time in this league ,I've no idea on what grounds the squad is strong assertion is made , no identity , no power in the front 6 , firmly of the view any manager would struggle to keep this lot anywhere near safe, the question is who ultimately is accountable for wasting such a golden opportunity , who decided that banking £12m last summer was the behaviour of a well run club in this league .
wont see tomorrow , but fully expect Hughes to again take the brunt of the accountability and yet what did we expect the catastrophe now unfolding is attributable to 5 years as the lowest spenders , three windows of mind blowing transfer incompetence and a decision to bank £12m in the summer when others invested in protecting their premier league status , either by positive managerial change , or funds or both while we compromised by doing neither .
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 28, 2017 10:55:50 GMT
We have been pretty dire for 18 months plus, Hughes started to spend big money on wasters ala QPR, failing to address the loss's of Zonz and Huth are a big part of the problems we have, he has stockpiled players to replace those two who were crap. This mess is down to the manager who utilised and improved the Pulis players in the first two seasons it all went to rat shit when he built his own squad with players he brought in. The system he has chosen is fine if you have wingbacks to make it work efficiently we don't and the arrogant twat will not change it why ? not really any of the points I addressed and I won't deny that much of what you say is correct. what I quoted is factually incorrect though. I would prefer the fans got behind whoever the manager was to give the team the best chance if winning games but I seriously think it is beyond many. Can you define that though? Are we saying don’t ever criticise the manager on any forum whatsoever? That this place should just be a parade of people saying “Yay! Everything’s brilliant!” in a variety of different ways? Because when the game kicks off, the vast, vast majority of people there are 100% behind the team.
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Our Squad
Oct 28, 2017 12:08:17 GMT
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Post by MilanStokie on Oct 28, 2017 12:08:17 GMT
Not at all but I don't see everyone being 100% behind the team on matchday. one misplaced pass and the boos begin.
all I am worried about is those who would prefer us losing today if it meant hughes leaving, supporting their agenda rather than their club. you can't deny they don't exist.
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