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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 25, 2017 23:01:33 GMT
How good is it really? I keep hearing that it's full of quality, but I don't see much evidence of that on the pitch.
Be honest, how many of our players would other teams fans be jealous of? Butland, Shaqiri.... then who? I'm really struggling.
Or are the players better than I am suggesting? If that's the case, why aren't they delivering the goods?
Either way is hardly an endorsement of Hughes. He's either assembled a poor squad who aren't good enough to win consistently, or he's got decent players that he can't fashion into a good team.
Which is it?
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 25, 2017 23:06:47 GMT
Maybe Zouma as well, then after that, fuck knows???
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Our Squad
Oct 25, 2017 23:15:17 GMT
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 25, 2017 23:15:17 GMT
Maybe Zouma as well, then after that, fuck knows??? And he isn't ours!
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Oct 25, 2017 23:19:15 GMT
Maybe Zouma as well, then after that, fuck knows??? And he isn't ours! Not looking good is it!!! 😕
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 25, 2017 23:24:47 GMT
Not looking good is it!!! 😕 Not really. I think the last transfer window was a massive missed opportunity to improve our squad.
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Post by malisastokie on Oct 26, 2017 2:50:27 GMT
A team of :
Butland
Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters
Cameron Fletcher Affelay
Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse
Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in.
The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City .
Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent.
On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day.
It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered.
I don't think we are relegation fodder.
We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor.
If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw.
If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level.
However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough.
Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing.
I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points.
If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad.
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Our Squad
Oct 26, 2017 4:04:14 GMT
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Post by s7oke on Oct 26, 2017 4:04:14 GMT
A team of : Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters Cameron Fletcher Affelay Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in. The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City . Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent. On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day. It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered. I don't think we are relegation fodder. We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor. If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw. If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level. However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough. Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing. I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points. If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad. We haven’t played spurs yet this season !! I take it you mean Chelsea!
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Post by malisastokie on Oct 26, 2017 4:48:00 GMT
Sorry you are correct, I did mean Chelsea !!!
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 26, 2017 7:18:21 GMT
A team of : Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters Cameron Fletcher Affelay Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in. The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City . Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent. On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day. It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered. I don't think we are relegation fodder. We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor. If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw. If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level. However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough. Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing. I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points. If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad. Yes we missed out on some players - as does every club in every transfer window - but we have a stronger squad this season than last season. I also agree that the real issue is getting the best we can out of what we've got - the January window is for tweaks not wholesale changes, I genuinely believe that if Hughes can bring out the best in the squad he has assembled he and the club will be fine. If he can't - and Xmas is the time to start taking stock - then we need a manager that can.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 26, 2017 7:21:26 GMT
I think we have one of the top six keepers in the league.
I think we have some of the best centre backs in the league.
Shaq would get into most sides.
Diouf would get in a fair few too (the bloke scores goals).
Past that I think it's squad players and lower.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2017 7:32:11 GMT
A team of : Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters Cameron Fletcher Affelay Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in. The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City . Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent. On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day. It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered. I don't think we are relegation fodder. We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor. If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw. If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level. However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough. Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing. I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points. If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad. Got to admit I think thats a pretty awful side you've picked. I'd much sooner see the following tried. Butland Cameron Shawcross BMI Pieters Zouma Allen Choupo Moting Shaqiri Ramadan Diouf
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Post by malisastokie on Oct 26, 2017 7:59:41 GMT
What I was trying to highlight was that the current squad could fit into the formation that delivered one of the best performance I have seen since we were promoted and not be considered inferior.
The side you picked is great, I dont think the squad is the issue.
I think the problem is the intent the side is sent out with, I dont think a clean sheet means nothing the Hughes.
Zouma as a central midfielder I think would be awesome, he would be the player we though we had in Imbula for all of a couple of games.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 8:50:25 GMT
There is something about this squad that doesn't inspire me. I'm really not enjoying my football at the moment, and it's hurting!
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Post by loosestools on Oct 26, 2017 8:54:33 GMT
There is something about this squad that doesn't inspire me. I'm really not enjoying my football at the moment, and it's hurting! +1
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2017 9:30:19 GMT
What I was trying to highlight was that the current squad could fit into the formation that delivered one of the best performance I have seen since we were promoted and not be considered inferior. The side you picked is great, I dont think the squad is the issue. I think the problem is the intent the side is sent out with, I dont think a clean sheet means nothing the Hughes. Zouma as a central midfielder I think would be awesome, he would be the player we though we had in Imbula for all of a couple of games. I think 433 is generally a very negative system and whilst I agree it produced the most scintillating football I've ever seen us play I think that was more a case of 3 forwards hitting a vein of form and understanding together. If you're watching us now you can see that its night and day. I think even since then play in this league has moved on and is even more about athleticism, power, pace and tempo than its ever been, this is something that seems lost on Hughes. When we need a unit probably two in the middle of the park he bases his whole season on Fletcher and Allen it just doesn't cut the mustard. I like 3 at the back but I've said consistently along with many others we have no wing backs to enable us to effectively deploy the system. Its all a bit shit and I spare no one involved from their share of the blame, Hughes is culpable but so are the people above him in many ways more so.
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Our Squad
Oct 26, 2017 9:36:19 GMT
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Post by jwhpotter on Oct 26, 2017 9:36:19 GMT
A team of : Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters Cameron Fletcher Affelay Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in. The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City . Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent. On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day. It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered. I don't think we are relegation fodder. We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor. If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw. If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level. However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough. Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing. I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points. If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad. Got to admit I think thats a pretty awful side you've picked. I'd much sooner see the following tried. Butland Cameron Shawcross BMI Pieters Zouma Allen Choupo Moting Shaqiri Ramadan Diouf I like this - I think Zouma could do a great job at CDM plus Fletcher has been wank last few games.
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Post by alster on Oct 26, 2017 9:45:38 GMT
Got to admit I think thats a pretty awful side you've picked. I'd much sooner see the following tried. Butland Cameron Shawcross BMI Pieters Zouma Allen Choupo Moting Shaqiri Ramadan Diouf I like this - I think Zouma could do a great job at CDM plus Fletcher has been wank last few games. I think the midfield pairing lacks physicality I'm not a big Joe Allen fan either in some games I'd deploy Zouma and Cameron and have a look at Edwards at right back.
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Post by stokeyank on Oct 26, 2017 13:42:18 GMT
Midfield is by far our biggest issue. No real creativity or physicality there. I like Joe Allen but he just does not work if you are trying to play "carpet football" as we seem to attempt. Fletcher is solid, mostly uninspiring and getting old. Again, like him but just not pushing us forward. Affelay is more creative but also aging, may be our best option at the moment. Cameron is athletic can pick a forward pass but also his touch lets him down too often. Also on the wrong side of 30. We tried with Imbula but all know how that went.
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Post by basingstokie on Oct 26, 2017 14:10:28 GMT
A team of : Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters Cameron Fletcher Affelay Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in. The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City . Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent. On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day. It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered. I don't think we are relegation fodder. We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor. If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw. If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level. However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough. Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing. I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points. If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad. Hughes's biggest problem is that team (and I agree it should be mid table prem material) doesn't include Wimmer, Imbula and Berahino. That's over £50m of purchases and probably close to £200k a week in wages wasted. He is bound to be carrying the baggage of those decisions with him
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Post by lloydstevens43 on Oct 26, 2017 14:13:02 GMT
Sobhi should always start insted of choupo moting. play Ramadan. 442 and europena style football.
our team is no oil painting but if you do that well kick on.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 26, 2017 14:40:39 GMT
A team of : Butland Zouma Shawcross Indi Peters Cameron Fletcher Affelay Shaqiri Chopping Motting Jesse Should be competitive in the 7th to 17th league that we play in. The formation above is identical to the December 2015 formation v Manchester City . Zouma for Johnson - upgrade. Indi for Wolschiekd - upgrade. Fletcher for Whelan - upgrade. Choppo Motting for Bojan - Bojan at his best better but over a full season we may find Choppo Motting to be better value. Jesse for Arnie - Arnie undoubtably at his best again is better, however apart from one season he was inconsistent. On balance the side above is equal to the side that put the cleaners through Man City that day. It's about time Hughes picked the right formation and playing group delivered. I don't think we are relegation fodder. We have had 2 heavy defeats by Spurs and Man City. And a result v Bournemouth that was poor. If we had of picked up 3 points v Bournemouth , I think 11 points was a pass grade considering our draw. If we don't collect points over the next 4 games then Hughes has to go because this squad with correct formation can compete at this level. However we mix and match the top 3 with Mamma / Jesse / crouch and Breahino it's good enough. Change Allen for Affelay if we want to press opposing sides and once again we lose nothing. I think Coates comments are correct we have a competitive squad and it is now time to pick up points. If we don't then we have to find a manager who can get results out of the squad. Hughes's biggest problem is that team (and I agree it should be mid table prem material) doesn't include Wimmer, Imbula and Berahino. That's over £50m of purchases and probably close to £200k a week in wages wasted. He is bound to be carrying the baggage of those decisions with him True. When we buy players like Imbula, Bojan, Arni, Wolly, Shaq etc. who have been "problem" players or misfits at their previous clubs we can expect to have failures and successes, it's the luck of the draw. Imbula has proven to be a serious mistake but he has undoubted talent in the right situation, but it isn't the Prem. When you snap up players who have not been playing at the top level for some time, you have to expect them to take time to get back to their best if they ever do. We would not expect a top class tennis player or golfer or cricketer who has been out for a period to start performing again at a top level. It will take months to get them back to their potential level. We have to be patient with Wimmer, Berahino's time has run out and he will only get brief and scarce chances again to get back unfortunately for him, but I do think he has tried. The third category where Hughes has taken a risk is players who have lost a lot of time due to injury. Some players seem to be made of india rubber and turn out every week no matter what punishment they take, like Peiters, and others seem to be perpetually injured. This problem obviously worsens with age as the body takes longer to repair. I think we have a great squad, but many of the players are with us because they have an issue that prevents them being employed by CL side. This is disruptive and so it takes Hughes a long time each season to settle into an effective team. A lot of faces have changed in the dressing room and I do get frustrated with the repeated posts saying the problem has been around for 18 month, 2 years etc., when we actually have a revised squad with a significant number of new players. It takes time for players to develop into a team, as Everton have found to their cost. It also takes time to play in a new way (3 CBs at the back) as Palace have found to their cost under de Boer. I'm confident Hughes will turn the squad into a good team, but he needs time.
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Post by lloydstevens43 on Oct 26, 2017 17:30:05 GMT
Diouf up front. Berahino never score guys shit
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Oct 26, 2017 17:40:19 GMT
Think we have an average squad. An average squad that a bad manager/manager not doing well takes down, and a good manager can get into the top ten. Hughes is the former currently, so we're in trouble.
Butland, Zouma & Shaqiri are our 3 standout players imo, but one of them isn't even ours Martins Indi, Shawcross, Allen, Diouf and a good Imbula can start Grant, Pieters, Cameron, Fletcher, Choupo, Bojan, Muniesa, Crouch have a place around the squad at least (+ youngsters) Jury's out on Johnson, Wimmer, Adam & Berahino
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Post by lloydstevens43 on Oct 26, 2017 17:43:17 GMT
Think we have an average squad. An average squad that a bad manager/manager not doing well takes down, and a good manager can get into the top ten. Hughes is the former currently, so we're in trouble. Ye another coach would have us looking at Europe. Time for a change.
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Post by MilanStokie on Oct 26, 2017 19:30:50 GMT
Think we have an average squad. An average squad that a bad manager/manager not doing well takes down, and a good manager can get into the top ten. Hughes is the former currently, so we're in trouble. Butland, Zouma & Shaqiri are our 3 standout players imo, but one of them isn't even ours Martins Indi, Shawcross, Allen, Diouf and a good Imbula can start Grant, Pieters, Cameron, Fletcher, Choupo, Bojan, Muniesa, Crouch have a place around the squad at least (+ youngsters) Jury's out on Johnson, Wimmer, Adam & Berahino Sorry you might have to explain that logic mate. a bad manager gets this squad relegated and hughes falls in this category? a good manager gets top half. did I just imagine 3 out of 4 seasons with hughes finishing...top half? it's a shame that many have simply made their mind up. would rather continously criticise the situation than get behind it and try to make it work. sometimes I think the word 'support' is sincerely lost on some folk.
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Post by crapslinger on Oct 26, 2017 19:40:53 GMT
Think we have an average squad. An average squad that a bad manager/manager not doing well takes down, and a good manager can get into the top ten. Hughes is the former currently, so we're in trouble. Butland, Zouma & Shaqiri are our 3 standout players imo, but one of them isn't even ours Martins Indi, Shawcross, Allen, Diouf and a good Imbula can start Grant, Pieters, Cameron, Fletcher, Choupo, Bojan, Muniesa, Crouch have a place around the squad at least (+ youngsters) Jury's out on Johnson, Wimmer, Adam & Berahino Sorry you might have to explain that logic mate. a bad manager gets this squad relegated and hughes falls in this category? a good manager gets top half. did I just imagine 3 out of 4 seasons with hughes finishing...top half? it's a shame that many have simply made their mind up. would rather continously criticise the situation than get behind it and try to make it work. sometimes I think the word 'support' is sincerely lost on some folk. We have been pretty dire for 18 months plus, Hughes started to spend big money on wasters ala QPR, failing to address the loss's of Zonz and Huth are a big part of the problems we have, he has stockpiled players to replace those two who were crap. This mess is down to the manager who utilised and improved the Pulis players in the first two seasons it all went to rat shit when he built his own squad with players he brought in. The system he has chosen is fine if you have wingbacks to make it work efficiently we don't and the arrogant twat will not change it why ?
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Our Squad
Oct 26, 2017 19:51:39 GMT
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Post by MilanStokie on Oct 26, 2017 19:51:39 GMT
Sorry you might have to explain that logic mate. a bad manager gets this squad relegated and hughes falls in this category? a good manager gets top half. did I just imagine 3 out of 4 seasons with hughes finishing...top half? it's a shame that many have simply made their mind up. would rather continously criticise the situation than get behind it and try to make it work. sometimes I think the word 'support' is sincerely lost on some folk. We have been pretty dire for 18 months plus, Hughes started to spend big money on wasters ala QPR, failing to address the loss's of Zonz and Huth are a big part of the problems we have, he has stockpiled players to replace those two who were crap. This mess is down to the manager who utilised and improved the Pulis players in the first two seasons it all went to rat shit when he built his own squad with players he brought in. The system he has chosen is fine if you have wingbacks to make it work efficiently we don't and the arrogant twat will not change it why ? not really any of the points I addressed and I won't deny that much of what you say is correct. what I quoted is factually incorrect though. I would prefer the fans got behind whoever the manager was to give the team the best chance if winning games but I seriously think it is beyond many.
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Post by skip on Oct 26, 2017 19:59:26 GMT
How good is it really? I keep hearing that it's full of quality, but I don't see much evidence of that on the pitch. Be honest, how many of our players would other teams fans be jealous of? Butland, Shaqiri.... then who? I'm really struggling. Or are the players better than I am suggesting? If that's the case, why aren't they delivering the goods? Either way is hardly an endorsement of Hughes. He's either assembled a poor squad who aren't good enough to win consistently, or he's got decent players that he can't fashion into a good team. Which is it? To offer a counter position, apart from the obvious candidates at the top table, there aren't many I can think of that I would want to sign.
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Post by crapslinger on Oct 26, 2017 20:06:59 GMT
We have been pretty dire for 18 months plus, Hughes started to spend big money on wasters ala QPR, failing to address the loss's of Zonz and Huth are a big part of the problems we have, he has stockpiled players to replace those two who were crap. This mess is down to the manager who utilised and improved the Pulis players in the first two seasons it all went to rat shit when he built his own squad with players he brought in. The system he has chosen is fine if you have wingbacks to make it work efficiently we don't and the arrogant twat will not change it why ? not really any of the points I addressed and I won't deny that much of what you say is correct. what I quoted is factually incorrect though. I would prefer the fans got behind whoever the manager was to give the team the best chance if winning games but I seriously think it is beyond many. It was blatantly obvious by the lack of supporters that bothered to stay around at the end of our last home game last season to give their appreciation of their efforts during that season a large section of our support were pissed off with Hughes and his team, do really believe things have changed for the better ?. The fans need something to hold on to, if Hughes and his team can't be arsed to show any fight or pride the fans will turn as they are now doing in growing numbers, he has to go sooner rather than later if we are to see any improvement in the team or football on offer, this shit is no better than the final Pulis season.
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Post by crapslinger on Oct 26, 2017 20:09:27 GMT
How good is it really? I keep hearing that it's full of quality, but I don't see much evidence of that on the pitch. Be honest, how many of our players would other teams fans be jealous of? Butland, Shaqiri.... then who? I'm really struggling. Or are the players better than I am suggesting? If that's the case, why aren't they delivering the goods? Either way is hardly an endorsement of Hughes. He's either assembled a poor squad who aren't good enough to win consistently, or he's got decent players that he can't fashion into a good team. Which is it? To offer a counter position, apart from the obvious candidates at the top table, there aren't many I can think of that I would want to sign. That is the job of the board they are the experts on appointing managers they have the final say, the supporters have pretty much turned on Hughes now, do you think Hughes would be able to get us back up if he takes us down ?
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