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Post by swampySCFC on Aug 12, 2017 22:35:18 GMT
Ramadan isn't the next Arnie then. Unless he plays him in the home games
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 13:59:00 GMT
So...with the left sided Choupo-Moting in and the left sided Jesé imminent, is not one mildly fussed?
Are people not going to question this a little? Where on earth does he fit in?
I am a big fan of us trying him to a new deal for commercial value that will naturally depreciate when he isn't even played, mind.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 13, 2017 14:01:39 GMT
So...with the left sided Choupo-Moting in and the left sided Jesé imminent, is not one mildly fussed? Are people not going to question this a little? Where on earth does he fit in? I am a big fan of us trying him to a new deal for commercial value that will naturally depreciate when he isn't even played, mind. er... well... maybe... er.... ....don't know!
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Ramadan
Aug 13, 2017 14:02:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by liamo on Aug 13, 2017 14:02:51 GMT
So...with the left sided Choupo-Moting in and the left sided Jesé imminent, is not one mildly fussed? Are people not going to question this a little? Where on earth does he fit in? I am a big fan of us trying him to a new deal for commercial value that will naturally depreciate when he isn't even played, mind. Any questions I had with recruitment went out the window when I realised that most business we do makes no sense Didn't need Joe Allen, chased Berahino even though he's shit as a lone striker, just a couple of examples
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Ramadan
Aug 13, 2017 14:09:03 GMT
via mobile
pyrus likes this
Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 13, 2017 14:09:03 GMT
We will have amassed a group of players who can all play left, right and centrally. Logically speaking, you'd hope they could all play together in a fluid manner but this is Stoke we're talking about, we'll make it look awkward as fuck.
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Ramadan
Aug 13, 2017 14:11:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by liamo on Aug 13, 2017 14:11:32 GMT
We will have amassed a group of players who can all play left, right and centrally. Logically speaking, you'd hope they could all play together in a fluid manner but this is Stoke we're talking about, we'll make it look awkward as fuck. I was always told that that's how Hughes likes it, a fluid system going forward where all attacking players can play anywhere across the front line, why doesn't it happen?
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Post by melbourne on Aug 14, 2017 3:04:21 GMT
Would love to see him tried at wing back. If Moses can do it I don't see why he can't
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Aug 14, 2017 3:09:31 GMT
I'd rather we just bring in an actual wing back.
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Ramadan
Aug 14, 2017 5:00:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by heworksardtho on Aug 14, 2017 5:00:18 GMT
Would love to see him tried there. If Moses can do it I don't see why he can't If Moses can do it how about Jesus or one of the disciples having a go surely there's one good RB amongst them 😀
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Post by Dr Hesham on Aug 14, 2017 6:04:23 GMT
He is better at attacking, yes he is strong with good stamina but his strong point is his skills in the front third when he enters the box and pass some assists for the strikers.
With Al Ahly Ramadan Sobhi wasnt asked to defend cause it would be considered as misuse for his skills.
He can be better than Erik but he it will be 50% of him.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 14, 2017 6:31:47 GMT
Would love to see him tried there. If Moses can do it I don't see why he can't Can you name one other left wing back in football who is right footed? If Sobhi can be successfully used as a wing back it would be on the right side of the pitch - i.e. the position where Diouf is currently playing. Moses (who is right footed like Sobhi) played as an inverted left winger for us. Moses now plays as a right wing back for Chelsea.
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Ramadan
Aug 14, 2017 7:11:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 14, 2017 7:11:24 GMT
Him getting on the pitch would be nice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 7:14:32 GMT
He is better at attacking, yes he is strong with good stamina but his strong point is his skills in the front third when he enters the box and pass some assists for the strikers. With Al Ahly Ramadan Sobhi wasnt asked to defend cause it would be considered as misuse for his skills. He can be better than Erik but he it will be 50% of him. He can still do those things as a LWB though, Dr H. For example Marcos Alonso scored 6 times and made 5 assists from that position last year. Is it a natural position for him to play? Maybe. Difficult to judge without seeing him play there. I'd suggest most would see Moses playing RWB as being a waste of time when he got moved there last season, yet he managed to hold down a regular spot in a Premiership winning team. Is it Moses's best position? Probably not. With the squad Conte had, was he the best person for the job? Absolutely. Despite all of Chelsea's millions, Conte didn't go and buy two dedicated wing backs? Nope. All top players (well, pretty much all) have a preferred position, but can do a very good job in others. Ramadan moved to England to develop his game and learn his trade against some of the best players and clubs in the world. Personally, whilst I agree that LWB would not be his best or preferred position based on what we've seen so far, I would rather him get regular game time at LWB than fleeting appearances on the left of a front 3. I reckon he would too. I guess the question comes down to can he play there? I'd hope that he has been at least tried there in training games so that management can check him out. Our lack of options for that position is rather scary, especially considering Pieters is our number one candidate at the moment.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2017 7:21:14 GMT
He is better at attacking, yes he is strong with good stamina but his strong point is his skills in the front third when he enters the box and pass some assists for the strikers. With Al Ahly Ramadan Sobhi wasnt asked to defend cause it would be considered as misuse for his skills. He can be better than Erik but he it will be 50% of him. He can still do those things as a LWB though, Dr H. For example Marcos Alonso scored 6 times and made 5 assists from that position last year. Is it a natural position for him to play? Maybe. Difficult to judge without seeing him play there. I'd suggest most would see Moses playing RWB as being a waste of time when he got moved there last season, yet he managed to hold down a regular spot in a Premiership winning team. Is it Moses's best position? Probably not. With the squad Conte had, was he the best person for the job? Absolutely. Despite all of Chelsea's millions, Conte didn't go and buy two dedicated wing backs? Nope. All top players (well, pretty much all) have a preferred position, but can do a very good job in others. Ramadan moved to England to develop his game and learn his trade against some of the best players and clubs in the world. Personally, whilst I agree that LWB would not be his best or preferred position based on what we've seen so far, I would rather him get regular game time at LWB than fleeting appearances on the left of a front 3. I reckon he would too. I guess the question comes down to can he play there? I'd hope that he has been at least tried there in training games so that management can check him out. Our lack of options for that position is rather scary, especially considering Pieters is our number one candidate at the moment. Surely it's better to look at him in the current system as one of the front three? In theory, it's a system that allows the front three some freedom and fluidity, they're tucked inside and have more freedom to roam. Surely that's a better bet for him than lumbering with a tonne of defensive duties in an unfamiliar position? Moses is very much the exception rather than the rule and we shouldn't be having to make do with square pegs in such a key area of the side.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 7:27:56 GMT
He can still do those things as a LWB though, Dr H. For example Marcos Alonso scored 6 times and made 5 assists from that position last year. Is it a natural position for him to play? Maybe. Difficult to judge without seeing him play there. I'd suggest most would see Moses playing RWB as being a waste of time when he got moved there last season, yet he managed to hold down a regular spot in a Premiership winning team. Is it Moses's best position? Probably not. With the squad Conte had, was he the best person for the job? Absolutely. Despite all of Chelsea's millions, Conte didn't go and buy two dedicated wing backs? Nope. All top players (well, pretty much all) have a preferred position, but can do a very good job in others. Ramadan moved to England to develop his game and learn his trade against some of the best players and clubs in the world. Personally, whilst I agree that LWB would not be his best or preferred position based on what we've seen so far, I would rather him get regular game time at LWB than fleeting appearances on the left of a front 3. I reckon he would too. I guess the question comes down to can he play there? I'd hope that he has been at least tried there in training games so that management can check him out. Our lack of options for that position is rather scary, especially considering Pieters is our number one candidate at the moment. Surely it's better to look at him in the current system as one of the front three? In theory, it's a system that allows the front three some freedom and fluidity, they're tucked inside and have more freedom to roam. Surely that's a better bet for him than lumbering with a tonne of defensive duties in an unfamiliar position? Moses is very much the exception rather than the rule and we shouldn't be having to make do with square pegs in such a key area of the side. I absolutely agree mate. Not necessarily advocating for him to play there, just a critical review of our squad as it stands. His chances of playing wide left of the front 3 - as I said previously would certainly be his best position - does seem rather 'blocked' by other players at the moment, with Bojan, Choupo and potentially Jese being ahead of him. If it means grabbing 10 mins here and there or being a regular LWB, I wonder what he'd choose?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2017 7:32:10 GMT
Surely it's better to look at him in the current system as one of the front three? In theory, it's a system that allows the front three some freedom and fluidity, they're tucked inside and have more freedom to roam. Surely that's a better bet for him than lumbering with a tonne of defensive duties in an unfamiliar position? Moses is very much the exception rather than the rule and we shouldn't be having to make do with square pegs in such a key area of the side. I absolutely agree mate. Not necessarily advocating for him to play there, just a critical review of our squad as it stands. His chances of playing wide left of the front 3 - as I said previously would certainly be his best position - does seem rather 'blocked' by other players at the moment, with Bojan, Choupo and potentially Jese being ahead of him. If it means grabbing 10 mins here and there or being a regular LWB, I wonder what he'd choose? I'm sure he'd choose to play anywhere he could get minutes mate, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Best to have the options that make for the best team rather than just trying to cram your all your best players in anywhere.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Aug 14, 2017 7:33:44 GMT
He can still do those things as a LWB though, Dr H. For example Marcos Alonso scored 6 times and made 5 assists from that position last year. Is it a natural position for him to play? Maybe. Difficult to judge without seeing him play there. I'd suggest most would see Moses playing RWB as being a waste of time when he got moved there last season, yet he managed to hold down a regular spot in a Premiership winning team. Is it Moses's best position? Probably not. With the squad Conte had, was he the best person for the job? Absolutely. Despite all of Chelsea's millions, Conte didn't go and buy two dedicated wing backs? Nope. All top players (well, pretty much all) have a preferred position, but can do a very good job in others. Ramadan moved to England to develop his game and learn his trade against some of the best players and clubs in the world. Personally, whilst I agree that LWB would not be his best or preferred position based on what we've seen so far, I would rather him get regular game time at LWB than fleeting appearances on the left of a front 3. I reckon he would too. I guess the question comes down to can he play there? I'd hope that he has been at least tried there in training games so that management can check him out. Our lack of options for that position is rather scary, especially considering Pieters is our number one candidate at the moment. Surely it's better to look at him in the current system as one of the front three? In theory, it's a system that allows the front three some freedom and fluidity, they're tucked inside and have more freedom to roam. Surely that's a better bet for him than lumbering with a tonne of defensive duties in an unfamiliar position? Moses is very much the exception rather than the rule and we shouldn't be having to make do with square pegs in such a key area of the side. Agreed. Get him on the ball high up the the pitch and get him going forward.It really is that simple,utilise his ability and fearlessness.He won't hone his talent long term playing as an earnest up-and-downer at wing back.Just because he may be able to make it work better than Pieters doesn't mean you should relegate him to that role.If Hughes wants to play with wing backs then sign some bespoke ones to allow Sobhi to perform his principal role.
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Ramadan
Aug 14, 2017 7:36:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 14, 2017 7:36:05 GMT
If Jesse comes in I could see us loaning him out to a championship club to get him some game time maybe even st Pauli.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 7:36:27 GMT
I absolutely agree mate. Not necessarily advocating for him to play there, just a critical review of our squad as it stands. His chances of playing wide left of the front 3 - as I said previously would certainly be his best position - does seem rather 'blocked' by other players at the moment, with Bojan, Choupo and potentially Jese being ahead of him. If it means grabbing 10 mins here and there or being a regular LWB, I wonder what he'd choose? I'm sure he'd choose to play anywhere he could get minutes mate, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Best to have the options that make for the best team rather than just trying to cram your all your best players in anywhere. Absolutely. I have no idea whether he can do a job there or not; never seen him play there tbh. Best options for the best team might mean putting him there if he's better than Pieters though? And if he's not deemed good enough or better than Bojan/Choupo/Jese as left of a front 3, then where does it leave him? The best things is (obviously) to actually bring in a proper LWB. As you can see, I have more questions than answers
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 14, 2017 7:38:13 GMT
I'm sure he'd choose to play anywhere he could get minutes mate, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Best to have the options that make for the best team rather than just trying to cram your all your best players in anywhere. Absolutely. I have no idea whether he can do a job there or not; never seen him play there tbh. Best options for the best team might mean putting him there if he's better than Pieters though? And if he's not deemed good enough or better than Bojan/Choupo/Jese as left of a front 3, then where does it leave him? The best things is (obviously) to actually bring in a proper LWB. As you can see, I have more questions than answers I think we've got ourselves into a situation where Pieters is the only real option until we sign somebody else. The thought of playing a system that relies on wingbacks with a striker as one and a 20-year-old winger who's never played as one as the other makes me dry-heave, to be honest.
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Post by Northy on Aug 14, 2017 7:38:17 GMT
Maybe because he's not played well in pre season It doesn't matter. You're chasing the game and have two attacking players on the bench who could change the game and change the drudgery. And you don't use one. It's daft. so, a bit like Woy did in the Euro's then, bring on somebody to chase the game who you had tried previously in a recent game who didnt do anything and didn't change the game, like Woy did with Jack Wilshire, and everybody slagged Woy off for that ?
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 14, 2017 7:45:39 GMT
Would love to see him tried there. If Moses can do it I don't see why he can't Can you name one other left wing back in football who is right footed? If Sobhi can be successfully used as a wing back it would be on the right side of the pitch - i.e. the position where Diouf is currently playing. Moses (who is right footed like Sobhi) played as an inverted left winger for us. Moses now plays as a right wing back for Chelsea. I think you are right about this. I also think it would make sense. Playing Ramadan at RWB would then allow Diouf to play upfront.which as far as I´m concerned makes it a win win. Hughes needs to find a way of getting our best players on the pitch which also allows us to score goals; at the moment he is doing neither.
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Ramadan
Aug 14, 2017 7:47:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by superheroantonius on Aug 14, 2017 7:47:03 GMT
If Jesse comes in I could see us loaning him out to a championship club to get him some game time maybe even st Pauli. You might be right But I so hope you are wrong It's hard to play in the premiership as a teenager and he gave it a good go. Hughes can make him go backwards as a player by simply not playing him But why bother? The team needs some youth and energy and he is our stand out young player. Just play him, I don't care how raw he is, his strength pace and technique mean he can not possibly play worse than berahino ( and he gets a game!) Give him a run of a games and he may well come good. But no matter how he plays, I guarantee you he will not bottle it and just hide like berahino.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 7:51:46 GMT
Absolutely. I have no idea whether he can do a job there or not; never seen him play there tbh. Best options for the best team might mean putting him there if he's better than Pieters though? And if he's not deemed good enough or better than Bojan/Choupo/Jese as left of a front 3, then where does it leave him? The best things is (obviously) to actually bring in a proper LWB. As you can see, I have more questions than answers I think we've got ourselves into a situation where Pieters is the only real option until we sign somebody else. The thought of playing a system that relies on wingbacks with a striker as one and a 20-year-old winger who's never played as one as the other makes me dry-heave, to be honest. I completely get that. I'm trying to keep an open mind about Sobhi though; there have been other examples of wide players converting to attacking full-backs/wing-backs early in their careers (Evra, Bellerin, Ivanovic etc.) so, it can happen under the right circumstances. You also have the likes of Valencia and Moses who did it later in their careers. The seeming approval of Dioufy at RWB is a bit concerning imho. I remember when he had a run there last season; it seemed to start off well and we started creating chances after, shall we say, a 'difficult' period for the team, but after a while playing there he became less and less effective. It feels slightly less concerning as we at least have Johnson and Edwards who can cover the right hand side. The fact that we only have Pieters for the left is a real worry. Two proper tried and tested wing-backs would be wonderful! Pereira and Escudero anyone?
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Post by Dr Hesham on Aug 14, 2017 8:10:39 GMT
He is better at attacking, yes he is strong with good stamina but his strong point is his skills in the front third when he enters the box and pass some assists for the strikers. With Al Ahly Ramadan Sobhi wasnt asked to defend cause it would be considered as misuse for his skills. He can be better than Erik but he it will be 50% of him. He can still do those things as a LWB though, Dr H. For example Marcos Alonso scored 6 times and made 5 assists from that position last year. Is it a natural position for him to play? Maybe. Difficult to judge without seeing him play there. I'd suggest most would see Moses playing RWB as being a waste of time when he got moved there last season, yet he managed to hold down a regular spot in a Premiership winning team. Is it Moses's best position? Probably not. With the squad Conte had, was he the best person for the job? Absolutely. Despite all of Chelsea's millions, Conte didn't go and buy two dedicated wing backs? Nope. All top players (well, pretty much all) have a preferred position, but can do a very good job in others. Ramadan moved to England to develop his game and learn his trade against some of the best players and clubs in the world. Personally, whilst I agree that LWB would not be his best or preferred position based on what we've seen so far, I would rather him get regular game time at LWB than fleeting appearances on the left of a front 3. I reckon he would too. I guess the question comes down to can he play there? I'd hope that he has been at least tried there in training games so that management can check him out. Our lack of options for that position is rather scary, especially considering Pieters is our number one candidate at the moment. In this case he can be RWB not LWB so he can send crosses by his right foot but to play as wing back and enters the box with possibility 50% to lose the ball means they will take the ball and play in your side freely and you cant depend on the available midfielders now to cover him in such situations. For me if he cant find a regular position with Hughes, they should loan him anywhere so he can play regularly, it is very dangerous for a 20 years old player with potential to be something to stay on the bench for 1-2 years 1- He was playing regularly here 2- treated like a king 3- with a salary similar to UK in a much cheap country with much less taxes, he was offered the same salary before he leaves and he refused cause he want to play in PL. 4- with his friends and family and 90 million fans So he traveled and made a pressure to travel to play in Premier league because he believes in himself, if he knew from the start he is travelling to stay on the bench, it was impossible for him to do what he did, many people here still hates him cause he left the club when we badly needed him, for me i was very angry temporarily too, any way I still believe he is not an ordinary player and he is a fighter so he will obligate Hughes to make him a regular player.
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Ramadan
Aug 14, 2017 8:15:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 8:15:09 GMT
If Jesse comes in I could see us loaning him out to a championship club to get him some game time maybe even st Pauli. Seems daft though. Why limit his gametime or worse because a damaged goods player is coming here for a year? What message does that send to Sobhi?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 14, 2017 8:17:21 GMT
It doesn't matter. You're chasing the game and have two attacking players on the bench who could change the game and change the drudgery. And you don't use one. It's daft. so, a bit like Woy did in the Euro's then, bring on somebody to chase the game who you had tried previously in a recent game who didnt do anything and didn't change the game, like Woy did with Jack Wilshire, and everybody slagged Woy off for that ? Ramadan whenever he's played for us competitively has made a positive difference.
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Aug 14, 2017 8:23:48 GMT
Berahino Diouf Choupo Fletcher Shaqiri Cameron/Allen Sobhi BMI Ryan Zouma
It ain't rocket f**king science
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 8:26:17 GMT
I'd personally try Ramadan at LWB He's got the engine for it, he's a feisty little bastard when he wants to be and carries an attacking threat But he does not have the left foot required for defensive actions. Any half-decent right winger will exploit this weakness.
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Ramadan
Aug 14, 2017 9:25:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by StokeTudoGuy on Aug 14, 2017 9:25:57 GMT
Ramadan can do more defensively than Moting or Jese. It's not a straight comparison.
If we are to believe Allen could go and we stay in a 343 I could easily see Ramadan playing in CM along side Fletcher.
---------Moting--Diouf----
--------------Shaq------------
Pieters--Ramadan/Allen--Fletcher--Jese
------BMI---Shawcross---Zouma
Zouma has the physical ability to cover Jese defensively and Fletcher has the game reading to help defensively on the right too.
Pieters adds interceptions and tackles on that left side to allow Ramadan plenty of forward movement. It gives us two serious attacking outlets breaking from midfield.
Swap out Fletcher to Illaramendi in the medium to long term and I would be pretty excited about that team.
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