|
Post by furny88 on Jul 27, 2017 8:37:34 GMT
Hey guys so my question is what does the club spend its money on? with the club reportedly make 113.4mil in prize money last year and should make similar money this upcoming season. With selling a few player this window including arnie for 20mil with another 5mil in add ons. im seriously confused as to what the club chooses to spend its money on. i know wages are gonna be a big chunk of the budget but with the club being so guarded about their operations and finances can some people out there that know more than i do give me an insight into the clubs spending? ps. always have this discussion with my dad so would be nice to have a few answers Go to Swissramble.blogspot.com and you will see the latest analyis at 1st November 2016 for the season before last, last season is not out yet. It also provides a good discussion of the club's strategy. Wages were just over £82 million, profit was £2 million and gross debt was just under £60 million. I would expect we used most of the £7 million allowance under financial fair play to increase our wages to close to £90 million last season and we also spent on Berahino, Allen, Ramadan and Grant so I imagine no significant improvement in profit. The other interesting thing is that our wage bill went from about 13th highest in the league to 8th highest. This will have changed as Everton and Leicester in particular have gone past us but it shows that the club has really pushed the envelope to compete, our wages to turnover ratio was third highest to show this. It also explains why there has been a change of plan and we are getting rid of senior players and hence we have to sell to buy. Looking at the finances, no-one should accuse the owners of failing to invest and support the club. It also suggests if someone wanted to buy the club, it would probably require £100 million to clear the debt and purchase the equity, which was previously debt, and then invest in players knowing that £2 million a year is the current level of profit. That's a big ask thanks. i like have this sort of info which not many think about or take into account when judging the club. i wouldnt be so bother by a lack of transfer spending if it was clear that the club was spending in a different area for the clubs long term future.
|
|
|
Post by cousindupree on Jul 27, 2017 8:40:01 GMT
Surely we are paying down the debt we owe to Bet 365, that has to be a cornerstone to the self-sufficiency...or its now called 'sustainable' model it wasn't a gift was it?
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 27, 2017 8:51:03 GMT
|
|
|
Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 27, 2017 8:51:41 GMT
Surely we are paying down the debt we owe to Bet 365, that has to be a cornerstone to the self-sufficiency...or its now called 'sustainable' model it wasn't a gift was it? Everyday in gods glorious premier league is a gift, we should remember that. Sorry Leeds: "u wiv da angles now" in the Championship.
|
|
|
Post by furny88 on Jul 27, 2017 8:59:55 GMT
Hey guys so my question is what does the club spend its money on? with the club reportedly make 113.4mil in prize money last year and should make similar money this upcoming season. With selling a few player this window including arnie for 20mil with another 5mil in add ons. im seriously confused as to what the club chooses to spend its money on. i know wages are gonna be a big chunk of the budget but with the club being so guarded about their operations and finances can some people out there that know more than i do give me an insight into the clubs spending? ps. always have this discussion with my dad so would be nice to have a few answers Here are a few answers; read and learn: swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/stoke-city-but-im-different-now.htmlThe ground improvements will not appear in this year's profit/loss accounts, but will be appear on the balance sheet as capital investment and the cost will be spread over a number of years as depreciation. thanks for the link. was an interesting read and i feel a better sense of where the clubs at. although it kind made the same point that ive thought for awhile, that the clubs gone as far as it can go in the league at 9th and now it will be a constant fight to equal that achievement on a regular basis. Or we are gonna have to find an extra 100mil a season to be realistic contenders for european places.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 9:29:58 GMT
thanks for the link. was an interesting read and i feel a better sense of where the clubs at. although it kind made the same point that ive thought for awhile, that the clubs gone as far as it can go in the league at 9th and now it will be a constant fight to equal that achievement on a regular basis. Or we are gonna have to find an extra 100mil a season to be realistic contenders for european places. Yes that just about sums it up. We are Stoke City, a small club, as compared with the Global brands of the premier league. We have reached a point where it is hard to stand still. As Durham said on talkshite yesterday what is the point of Stoke City? Well he could ask that question about another 14 teams in the premier league. But if the club is not careful about how it spends, it could all go very wrong very quickly. I am sure we will see some clubs find that out over the next 5 years.
|
|
|
Post by hanibal7 on Jul 27, 2017 9:41:32 GMT
I read that our wage bill is over 85 million really? so whos getting the money? we havent got anybody on 100k a week do we? so hows it get to 85mil? Coates family will know, i only read this
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 27, 2017 9:50:40 GMT
As plenty of people on this thread have pointed out it isn't difficult to get most of the information the original poster wants from the accounts which club publishes every year - albeit that, like all company accounts, the information can be up to a year out of date before it is published. The club's annual accounts are ALWAYS mentioned in brief on the Official Site. They are ALWAYS covered in the Sentinel and other local and national media. And eventually sites such as the Swiss Ramble do a fantastic job of breaking the accounts down into easily understood chunks which even someone like me can understand. So, to the original poster, most of the information you seek is always out there - it has to be, otherwise the club and its parent company, bet365, would be breaking the law.
The only thing I would wish is that we were a little more open about publishing the finer detail of the items which go to make up the final published accounts. But you could say this about most clubs - and, indeed, most companies. Whether the clubs keep so much information to themselves out of laziness or whether they don't want competitors to know all the information, I don't know - but it does annoy me. I'm sure the board would say that I don't need to know all the information - and we are given what we legally have to be given - but I suppose I am nosey and always want a bit more information than I am being given on most financial matters.
|
|
|
Post by steino72 on Jul 27, 2017 9:53:57 GMT
Paying wages, transfer fees (including agents), running an academy, travelling and accommodation for staff, maintaining a stadium and associated facilities, community work, paying off debts etc. Same as most clubs I would imagine. A short vid explaining our 15/16 finances: Nice work!
|
|
|
Post by akstoke93 on Jul 27, 2017 10:07:10 GMT
Too much detail involved that we have literally no idea about costs involved. Easier to not get involved in what money goes where. Let the club look at after the money, we've got bigger worries on field than off field personally.
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Jul 27, 2017 14:39:06 GMT
Hey guys so my question is what does the club spend its money on? with the club reportedly make 113.4mil in prize money last year and should make similar money this upcoming season. With selling a few player this window including arnie for 20mil with another 5mil in add ons. im seriously confused as to what the club chooses to spend its money on. i know wages are gonna be a big chunk of the budget but with the club being so guarded about their operations and finances can some people out there that know more than i do give me an insight into the clubs spending? ps. always have this discussion with my dad so would be nice to have a few answers Here are a few answers; read and learn: swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/stoke-city-but-im-different-now.htmlThe ground improvements will not appear in this year's profit/loss accounts, but will be appear on the balance sheet as capital investment and the cost will be spread over a number of years as depreciation. You're correct in the treatment for the ground improvements but they won't appear in the football club accounts at all as ground is owned by a separate company who charges the football club rent.
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 27, 2017 15:02:18 GMT
You're correct in the treatment for the ground improvements but they won't appear in the football club accounts at all as ground is owned by a separate company who charges the football club rent. Correct. Stoke City (Property) Ltd own Clayton Wood (£7.9m) and the stadium (£33.5m) plus another £3.4m of plant and equipment.
|
|
|
Post by lagwafis on Jul 27, 2017 15:18:26 GMT
Some fascinating insight in here, especially the older accounts + chairman statements available throughout the 80s and 90s.
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 27, 2017 15:23:21 GMT
Some fascinating insight in here, especially the older accounts + chairman statements available throughout the 80s and 90s. Somewhere in there is a list of the individuals that still own shares in the football club from a bygone age. Must admit I've had a look through in case anybody I know or related to popped up. Sad I know but sadly not
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 15:53:04 GMT
One thing that annoys me greatly is clubs and their spending on Ground improvements in correlation to player spending/wages
When we were on our uppers we still splashed out on the Brit even though we almost crippled ourselves financially
In just over two weeks I and a few thousand other Stokies will brave the sh1t hole that is Goodison Park. How does this hole even get a safety certificate (Wooden stands) ? Add to that a full 25 years Sky money and the fact they are this season spending money hand over fist on players and it is obscene.
Same for Portsmouth and their promotion/FACup win but still playing in a dangerous (again wooden stand) stadium. At least they got their due
In my opinion grounds like Goodison Park are dangerous and an accident waiting to happen. It is a heavy irony if a disaster happened in a wooden stadium who would be the biggest whingers ...................?
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Jul 27, 2017 16:20:39 GMT
You forgot about scholes and the recruitment team
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 16:25:14 GMT
You forgot about scholes and the recruitment team Reduced a bit though harry, buy one get one free on Tuesday for HR staff......
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Jul 27, 2017 16:27:39 GMT
You forgot about scholes and the recruitment team Reduced a bit though harry, buy one get one free on Tuesday for HR staff...... Dominoes have the offer on a Friday in my neighbourhood mate
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 16:34:26 GMT
Reduced a bit though harry, buy one get one free on Tuesday for HR staff...... Dominoes have the offer on a Friday in my neighbourhood mate Fishy Friday in N.Wales harry !
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Jul 27, 2017 16:37:10 GMT
Dominoes have the offer on a Friday in my neighbourhood mate Fishy Friday in N.Wales harry ! Can't find a good one here , I make my own cod and chips
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Jul 27, 2017 17:14:00 GMT
well just for the first team with a 25 man squad and a wage budget of 85mil i think the average would be around 65k a week. which seems high. whatever the wages are i just think its abit weird its this hard to figure out how the club spends its money. so much better in america where all accounts are public knowledge. It's not that hard to be honest. Go to Company Check, create an account, search for stoke city football club, download the annual accounts document(s): companycheck.co.uk/ Companies house access is free now and you can access directly, company check used to send accounts in an e-mail.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 17:16:00 GMT
It's not that hard to be honest. Go to Company Check, create an account, search for stoke city football club, download the annual accounts document(s): companycheck.co.uk/ Companies house access is free now and you can access directly, company check used to send accounts in an e-mail. Yeah, have seen Clayton Wood's post at the top of this page. Good stuff 👍🏼
|
|
|
Post by rawli on Jul 27, 2017 17:19:21 GMT
Chief Executive gets a million a year and we turnover the same as a large Tesco store per year.
Football truly is a massive gravy train.
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Jul 27, 2017 22:24:25 GMT
In summary it shows that Stoke just about washes its own face with a small profit ~£5m less than 5% of turnover. Virtually every penny of TV money and more was spent on player wages and amortised player registrations. (fees and purchases to you and me) The debt to bet365 is about £50m for which it charges no interest currently. SCFC is trading solvent thanks to being a subsidiary of bet365 who essentially secure its cash position. In summary we are operating as self sufficient currently, We spent all of the TV money last year on players wages and transfers (amortised) SCFC has mo impact on bet365 accounts apart from the £50m interest free loan, which is how it should be for bet365. At current profitability it would take about 10 years to pay it back. Which is to our good fortune that currently we have no obligation too else we'd need to sell big time.
|
|
|
Post by rawli on Jul 27, 2017 22:39:33 GMT
In summary it shows that Stoke just about washes its own face with a small profit ~£5m less than 5% of turnover. Virtually every penny of TV money and more was spent on player wages and amortised player registrations. (fees and purchases to you and me) The debt to bet365 is about £50m for which it charges no interest currently. SCFC is trading solvent thanks to being a subsidiary of bet365 who essentially secure its cash position. In summary we are operating as self sufficient currently, We spent all of the TV money last year on players wages and transfers (amortised) SCFC has mo impact on bet365 accounts apart from the £50m interest free loan, which is how it should be for bet365. At current profitability it would take about 10 years to pay it back. Which is to our good fortune that currently we have no obligation too else we'd need to sell big time. So how much of his own money has Peter Coates put in? Or is it all bet365's?
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jul 27, 2017 22:51:24 GMT
One thing that annoys me greatly is clubs and their spending on Ground improvements in correlation to player spending/wages When we were on our uppers we still splashed out on the Brit even though we almost crippled ourselves financially In just over two weeks I and a few thousand other Stokies will brave the sh1t hole that is Goodison Park. How does this hole even get a safety certificate (Wooden stands) ? Add to that a full 25 years Sky money and the fact they are this season spending money hand over fist on players and it is obscene. Same for Portsmouth and their promotion/FACup win but still playing in a dangerous (again wooden stand) stadium. At least they got their due In my opinion grounds like Goodison Park are dangerous and an accident waiting to happen. It is a heavy irony if a disaster happened in a wooden stadium who would be the biggest whingers ...................? Wooden stand. What people who have not actually experienced a major fire is how incredibly fast the fire grows/moves:
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Jul 27, 2017 22:52:40 GMT
In summary it shows that Stoke just about washes its own face with a small profit ~£5m less than 5% of turnover. Virtually every penny of TV money and more was spent on player wages and amortised player registrations. (fees and purchases to you and me) The debt to bet365 is about £50m for which it charges no interest currently. SCFC is trading solvent thanks to being a subsidiary of bet365 who essentially secure its cash position. In summary we are operating as self sufficient currently, We spent all of the TV money last year on players wages and transfers (amortised) SCFC has mo impact on bet365 accounts apart from the £50m interest free loan, which is how it should be for bet365. At current profitability it would take about 10 years to pay it back. Which is to our good fortune that currently we have no obligation too else we'd need to sell big time. So how much of his own money has Peter Coates put in? Or is it all bet365's? looks like is all bet365 loan during promotion and the early seasons in PL. By my back of a fag packet valuator you could buy Stoke for about £200m and they might snap your hand off. Based on that and how they calculate transfers and wages a transfer kitty of £30m including wages, agents fees would be sensible this season would probably be sensible if you were charged with being CEO as Scholes is. That would be a similar profit as last year even with the increased revenue. Reason being you need to service that for 5 years with TV money including parachute payments if you needed them for the life of the contracts you already have in place. Unless you sell off significant amount of players or wages. I wouldn't get your hopes up more than £30m unless Denise as major shareholder of bet365 sanctioned a further loan. Frankly Stoke could never pay it back anyway and as chair of bet365 I wouldn't if I was her. Alternatively you could buy bet365 for several hundred £m and get a free PL club thrown in :-)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 23:47:30 GMT
Wages Pizza New seats Beard wax for TS
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 23:53:27 GMT
In summary it shows that Stoke just about washes its own face with a small profit ~£5m less than 5% of turnover. Virtually every penny of TV money and more was spent on player wages and amortised player registrations. (fees and purchases to you and me) The debt to bet365 is about £50m for which it charges no interest currently. SCFC is trading solvent thanks to being a subsidiary of bet365 who essentially secure its cash position. In summary we are operating as self sufficient currently, We spent all of the TV money last year on players wages and transfers (amortised) SCFC has mo impact on bet365 accounts apart from the £50m interest free loan, which is how it should be for bet365. At current profitability it would take about 10 years to pay it back. Which is to our good fortune that currently we have no obligation too else we'd need to sell big time. Plenty of companies operate on 5% of gross. Lean as that is - it doesn't leave much room for error or if there's a crisis looming and money is needed.
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Jul 28, 2017 5:43:54 GMT
In summary it shows that Stoke just about washes its own face with a small profit ~£5m less than 5% of turnover. Virtually every penny of TV money and more was spent on player wages and amortised player registrations. (fees and purchases to you and me) The debt to bet365 is about £50m for which it charges no interest currently. SCFC is trading solvent thanks to being a subsidiary of bet365 who essentially secure its cash position. In summary we are operating as self sufficient currently, We spent all of the TV money last year on players wages and transfers (amortised) SCFC has mo impact on bet365 accounts apart from the £50m interest free loan, which is how it should be for bet365. At current profitability it would take about 10 years to pay it back. Which is to our good fortune that currently we have no obligation too else we'd need to sell big time. That's a pretty good summary just one point though there is a timing difference between the accounting and actual cash particularly for transfer fees / signing on fees etc, the 50 odd million referred to in the accounts will normally have paid up front or in a few instalments so the say 10 million charge (50m over 5 years) that will be in the May 17 accounts for this will have paid from the 15/16 TV money, the 16/17 TV money funded the £30m on Allen, Berahino etc Most interesting thing about the 16/17 accounts is it will disclose how much bet 365 pay for the stadium sponsorship, they paid £2m a year to sponsor the shirts.
|
|