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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 26, 2017 12:25:33 GMT
Just a thought, and I know there's a long way to go, but maybe starting the season with a stripped down, younger and potentially weaker squad might not be the end of the world.
Lowered expectations and the chances of the bearpit making a return if we get embroiled in a full on relegation battle might help to bring a new sense of direction.
If we do blood a few youngsters and if we do have a half decent season and preserve our top flight status then it might be a stepping stone for a much brighter future.
All that said hopefully it's unnecessary knicker wetting and we'll cruise to a top 8 finish!
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Post by alster on Jul 26, 2017 12:29:42 GMT
Just a thought, and I know there's a long way to go, but maybe starting the season with a stripped down, younger and potentially weaker squad might not be the end of the world. Lowered expectations and the chances of the bearpit making a return if we get embroiled in a full on relegation battle might help to bring a new sense of direction. If we do blood a few youngsters and if we do have a half decent season and preserve our top flight status then it might be a stepping stone for a much brighter future. All that said hopefully it's unnecessary knicker wetting and we'll cruise to a top 8 finish! See you've got over them already, I told you there were more fish in the sea. |
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Post by Gods on Jul 26, 2017 12:31:28 GMT
I suppose it depends how you'd feel about a trip to the Championship, last time we fell out of the top flight it took us nearly a quarter of a century to get back, this plan is definitely not for me!
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 26, 2017 12:35:12 GMT
I suppose it depends how you'd feel about a trip to the Championship, last time we fell out of the top flight it took us nearly a quarter of a century to get back, this plan is definitely not for me! I'm assuming/hoping we won't get relegated. Just. And then the more experienced youngsters have the experience to go on and achieve more in following seasons. Hopefully we have just about enough to stay out of the bottom three. |
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Post by butlerstbob on Jul 26, 2017 12:39:42 GMT
Lots of folk on here have been banging the "lets get rid of the older guard and bring in youth" drum for months if not years, now Hughes has done as asked the same people are trying to skin him alive!
We have some very good youngsters comming through the ranks so lets give them a chance, they cant do much worse than our fullbacks of last season can they?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 26, 2017 12:44:03 GMT
I suppose it depends how you'd feel about a trip to the Championship, last time we fell out of the top flight it took us nearly a quarter of a century to get back, this plan is definitely not for me! Come on Gods, we haven't even kicked off yet! That's doom and gloom even for you... I cannot see a team featuring Jack, Zouma, Fletcher, and a front 3 of Shaq, Sobhi and Bera finishing below Huddersfield, Brighton, Swansea, Watford, Burnley or Newcastle. I would rather be us than Palace or Leicester, and I will be surprised if West Brom, Saints and Bournemouth do as well as last season. We'll get a couple more in I'm sure. I think MH is going to have a go this season. I'm hoping we're going to be the Shaqiri inspired surprise package! |
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Post by metalhead on Jul 26, 2017 12:45:52 GMT
I suppose it depends how you'd feel about a trip to the Championship, last time we fell out of the top flight it took us nearly a quarter of a century to get back, this plan is definitely not for me! I'm assuming/hoping we won't get relegated. Just. And then the more experienced youngsters have the experience to go on and achieve more in following seasons. Hopefully we have just about enough to stay out of the bottom three. I think the only blessing in disguise is getting rid of Arnie and I say that as someone who is desperately disappointed to lose our best player. Forcing him to stay would have caused problems. He's been a problematic character in the past and for some reason, Hughes and his team have been able to keep him sharp and focused. Something other managers have failed to do with him and are still struggling to do with Balotelli. Shaqiri has a chance to take number 1 spot in our team. Sobhi has a chance to make a name for himself. We have 25 million pounds extra in the bank. We potentially got 3 of his best seasons out of his career (and who knows they might be the last). I think there are a few more positives than people feel at this point. Promoting the youth players should really bring about change. |
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Post by stokie1954 on Jul 26, 2017 12:46:19 GMT
Lots of folk on here have been banging the "lets get rid of the older guard and bring in youth" drum for months if not years, now Hughes has done as asked the same people are trying to skin him alive! We have some very good youngsters comming through the ranks so lets give them a chance, they cant do much worse than our fullbacks of last season can they? Why has Hughes done as asked?. Do you really believe any of the young guns will start the season?. Not a chance!!. |
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Post by Billy the kid on Jul 26, 2017 12:52:58 GMT
Dress it up however you like, if (and it is a big if) we end the transfer window with the squad we have now then we are in trouble. The funny thing is that 3 decent first team signings and everything can be rosey. I truest believe that this will happen and all will be well. I know we had a few defensive changers last night, but that aside we do look sharper and a little more fitter than any pre season under Mark Hughes. I don't expect that to transpire in to any more points within the first month or so given that we have a very tough start. What I do think though is that between the end of September and the Christmas period we will pick up more points per game than we did last season and be all but safe from relegation at the back end of January.
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Post by wingy11 on Jul 26, 2017 12:53:57 GMT
Thing is with stoke instead of steady progress we go from 1 extreme to the next younger players should be introduced slowly and actually had some preimer/championship experience but no the club decide to just cut the cloth and throw players in straight away and believe me it wont work championship beckons
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 12:55:10 GMT
Relegation battles are great with the benefit of hindsight, but they take years off your life I reckon.
Stressful times, just give me a bloody cup.
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Post by metalhead on Jul 26, 2017 12:58:07 GMT
Dress it up however you like, if (and it is a big if) we end the transfer window with the squad we have now then we are in trouble. The funny thing is that 3 decent first team signings and everything can be rosey. I truest believe that this will happen and all will be well. I know we had a few defensive changers last night, but that aside we do look sharper and a little more fitter than any pre season under Mark Hughes. I don't expect that to transpire in to any more points within the first month or so given that we have a very tough start. What I do think though is that between the end of September and the Christmas period we will pick up more points per game than we did last season and be all but safe from relegation at the back end of January. Who do you think we should sign then? |
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 26, 2017 12:58:14 GMT
Lots of folk on here have been banging the "lets get rid of the older guard and bring in youth" drum for months if not years, now Hughes has done as asked the same people are trying to skin him alive! We have some very good youngsters comming through the ranks so lets give them a chance, they cant do much worse than our fullbacks of last season can they? I was thinking of posting exactly what you've said. Fans have been calling for "old guard" to be replaced for at least a couple of seasons, then bleat when it starts to happen or when the club gives new contracts to older players. |
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 26, 2017 13:01:10 GMT
Dress it up however you like, if (and it is a big if) we end the transfer window with the squad we have now then we are in trouble. The funny thing is that 3 decent first team signings and everything can be rosey. I truest believe that this will happen and all will be well. I know we had a few defensive changers last night, but that aside we do look sharper and a little more fitter than any pre season under Mark Hughes. I don't expect that to transpire in to any more points within the first month or so given that we have a very tough start. What I do think though is that between the end of September and the Christmas period we will pick up more points per game than we did last season and be all but safe from relegation at the back end of January. Good observation. I thought Zouma was a bit unfit (but he jumped like a salmon!) but the rest did look sharper than previously, even Charlie was doing bicycle kicks! |
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Post by Linx on Jul 26, 2017 13:03:26 GMT
[quote author=" foxysgloves" timestamp="1501072512" source="/post/5638057/thread" Hopefully we have just about enough to stay out of the bottom three. I think the only blessing in disguise is getting rid of Arnie and I say that as someone who is desperately disappointed to lose our best player. Forcing him to stay would have caused problems. He's been a problematic character in the past and for some reason, Hughes and his team have been able to keep him sharp and focused. Something other managers have failed to do with him. [/quote] I have a strong feeling that it will end in tears for Arnie at West Ham. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jul 26, 2017 13:03:27 GMT
Thing is with stoke instead of steady progress we go from 1 extreme to the next younger players should be introduced slowly and actually had some preimer/championship experience but no the club decide to just cut the cloth and throw players in straight away and believe me it wont work championship beckons Nah I disagree. Whilst youngsters do need experience, I think they will ADD a work-rate and effort plus hopefully some much needed fitness and pace to the side. We all want to buy pre-made players but they are like mercenaries these days just coming for the coin. The youngsters might make some mistakes along the way but you know they will give 110%. Southampton lost most of their squad about 2 season when Pochettino left, but the new young players more than made up for losing the players. Premier League these days is LOW on quality but HIGH on pace and work ethic. We were so slow last season because we had so many old plodders. As Hansen said fatefully about Man United in 2000 - "you cant win the Premier League with kiddies" I think we will be surprised about how effective the youngsters are as long as they are given some confidence by Hughes and the crowd dont get on their back. |
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Post by Gods on Jul 26, 2017 13:04:16 GMT
I suppose it depends how you'd feel about a trip to the Championship, last time we fell out of the top flight it took us nearly a quarter of a century to get back, this plan is definitely not for me! Come on Gods, we haven't even kicked off yet! That's doom and gloom even for you... I cannot see a team featuring Jack, Zouma, Fletcher, and a front 3 of Shaq, Sobhi and Bera finishing below Huddersfield, Brighton, Swansea, Watford, Burnley or Newcastle. I would rather be us than Palace or Leicester, and I will be surprised if West Brom, Saints and Bournemouth do as well as last season. We'll get a couple more in I'm sure. I think MH is going to have a go this season. I'm hoping we're going to be the Shaqiri inspired surprise package! Yeah perhaps! But if you take the squad which limped over the line at the end of last season and strip from it our most potent attacker (Arnie) our best defender (Bruno) and 3 stalwarts (Walters, Whelan and Bardo) who were the rock on which we stood then I think you are left with a mid-table Championship team. We saw that last night against a Sheffield United side who played a league game against the Vale 8 short weeks ago. Okay in to the mix comes Fletcher, I'm happy with that and Zouma, I'm not yet full aboard the Zouma band wagon and we might be Championship play-off contenders. I'm not sold on any of our youngsters and am definitely not in the urging Sparky to play them camp. There is a tonne to do in the 16 days before we visit Goodison Park and a brutal opening 8 fixtures. Hang on for the ride! |
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Post by metalhead on Jul 26, 2017 13:05:20 GMT
Thing is with stoke instead of steady progress we go from 1 extreme to the next younger players should be introduced slowly and actually had some preimer/championship experience but no the club decide to just cut the cloth and throw players in straight away and believe me it wont work championship beckons Nah I disagree. Whilst youngsters do need experience, I think they will ADD a work-rate and effort plus hopefully some much needed fitness and pace to the side. We all want to buy pre-made players but they are like mercenaries these days just coming for the coin. The youngsters might make some mistakes along the way but you know they will give 110%. Southampton lost most of their squad about 2 season when Pochettino left, but the new young players more than made up for losing the players. Premier League these days is LOW on quality but HIGH on pace and work ethic. We were so slow last season because we had so many old plodders. As Hansen said fatefully about Man United in 2000 - "you cant win the Premier League with kiddies" I think we will be surprised about how effective the youngsters are as long as they are given some confidence by Hughes and the crowd dont get on their back. Inspired youngsters will outplay some mercenaries. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 13:05:35 GMT
Just a thought, and I know there's a long way to go, but maybe starting the season with a stripped down, younger and potentially weaker squad might not be the end of the world. Lowered expectations and the chances of the bearpit making a return if we get embroiled in a full on relegation battle might help to bring a new sense of direction. If we do blood a few youngsters and if we do have a half decent season and preserve our top flight status then it might be a stepping stone for a much brighter future. All that said hopefully it's unnecessary knicker wetting and we'll cruise to a top 8 finish! I still think we'll invest to improve the team, so I'm definitely not being a doom-merchant. Got to admit though that reading your third paragraph, the first thing that came into my head was 'Aston Villa'. They relied on kids who looked promising and they were expected to grow into a decent team, but it didn't work out like that. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that some of the youngsters are starting to get a look in, but if we're relying on them to do a man's job, I think we might be playing with fire. In some ways I think we've been a bit unlucky with the timing of all this. Looks like the youngsters are a year off being really ready and we needed the old un's to last that extra year. Whether we're going to gamble that the 'kiddies' are ready or whether reinforcements are on the way (which sadly might stunt the youngsters' progress) remains to be seen. |
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Post by alster on Jul 26, 2017 13:12:49 GMT
Lots of folk on here have been banging the "lets get rid of the older guard and bring in youth" drum for months if not years, now Hughes has done as asked the same people are trying to skin him alive! We have some very good youngsters comming through the ranks so lets give them a chance, they cant do much worse than our fullbacks of last season can they? Why has Hughes done as asked?. Do you really believe any of the young guns will start the season?. Not a chance!!. Who has asked for them to start, I've been as keen as almost anybody for them to get a chance but why would you just throw them into the starting line up? The first step is to regularly have at least a couple of them on the bench and to use them as and when game situations allow which can be either when you're winning or losing by a wide enough margin that you wouldn't expect blooding a young player or 2 would make too much difference to the outcome. The winning part would involve continuing to play your football not taking your foot off the gas every time you get your noses in front, it only sends the punters home frustrated anyway and I've seen no evidence that it delivers the desired outcome even the majority of the time. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jul 26, 2017 13:21:15 GMT
Klopp also said last season something interesting, that modern managers dont bother coaching their players preferring to buy in all the talent.
You look at a Mourinho and even Wenger these days. They buy talent but the players never seem to improve under them
Pochettino and Klopp do seem to improve players through good coaching. At least with young players Hughes should be able to coach them more easily. If he knows what resources he has to work with this season already it forces him to do this.
It might go all tits up but if it works out this season it does set us up going forward
I think we just have to wait and see. But NOT buying players does not automatically mean relegation Mr Benji
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 26, 2017 13:27:19 GMT
Come on Gods, we haven't even kicked off yet! That's doom and gloom even for you... I cannot see a team featuring Jack, Zouma, Fletcher, and a front 3 of Shaq, Sobhi and Bera finishing below Huddersfield, Brighton, Swansea, Watford, Burnley or Newcastle. I would rather be us than Palace or Leicester, and I will be surprised if West Brom, Saints and Bournemouth do as well as last season. We'll get a couple more in I'm sure. I think MH is going to have a go this season. I'm hoping we're going to be the Shaqiri inspired surprise package! Yeah perhaps! But if you take the squad which limped over the line at the end of last season and strip from it our most potent attacker (Arnie) our best defender (Bruno) and 3 stalwarts (Walters, Whelan and Bardo) who were the rock on which we stood then I think you are left with a mid-table Championship team. We saw that last night against a Sheffield United side who played a league game against the Vale 8 short weeks ago. Okay in to the mix comes Fletcher, I'm happy with that and Zouma, I'm not yet full aboard the Zouma band wagon and we might be Championship play-off contenders. I'm not sold on any of our youngsters and am definitely not in the urging Sparky to play them camp. There is a tonne to do in the 16 days before we visit Goodison Park and a brutal opening 8 fixtures. Hang on for the ride! Must admit I'm really looking forward to it - but at this time of the year I'm always full of optimism. Jack Butland is the kind of keeper, like Bego at his peak, who actually wins you points. Despite that howler against Saints when he nearly let Redmond in, he made a couple of late saves that made the difference between 3 points and 1 or no points. Kurt Zouma is a real coup for Stoke. He's going to be a monster for us this season. Gary Cahill must be so relieved he's not in the Chelsea squad. Gives us a bit more wriggle room if we want to play hard ball with Porto over BMI too. I'm convinced we're going to get Delph (not without an element of risk though) and maybe 1 or 2 others. Our front 3 (or 4) are capable of causing problems - really looking forward to how that pans out. If you accept the logic that we're going to be in the mid table pack, let's see what some of these kids can do. Not all necessarily starting, and certainly not all at once, but we've got to introduce them and blend them in this season. I'm looking forward to a rollercoaster. Some highs, some lows as always, but hopefully a bit more lively than last season. |
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Post by superheroantonius on Jul 26, 2017 13:28:47 GMT
Why has Hughes done as asked?. Do you really believe any of the young guns will start the season?. Not a chance!!. Who has asked for them to start, I've been as keen as almost anybody for them to get a chance but why would you just throw them into the starting line up? The first step is to regularly have at least a couple of them on the bench and to use them as and when game situations allow which can be either when you're winning or losing by a wide enough margin that you wouldn't expect blooding a young player or 2 would make too much difference to the outcome. The winning part would involve continuing to play your football not taking your foot off the gas every time you get your noses in front, it only sends the punters home frustrated anyway and I've seen no evidence that it delivers the desired outcome even the majority of the time. I think arnie whelan walters and Bard's leaving has left us short of muscle And attitude. So for me sobhi has to start. Bit odd having to turn to a 20 year old for muscle And attitude but I am convinced he's got more of it than Bera Bojan and imbula combined |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 26, 2017 13:34:05 GMT
Two phrases come to mind on this one: "Lipstick on a pig" and "You can't polish a turd, but you can put glitter on it".
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jul 26, 2017 13:35:39 GMT
Two phrases come to mind on this one: "Lipstick on a pig" and "You can't polish a turd, but you can put glitter on it". But enough of your plans for the day.... tell us what you think about Stoke |
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Post by alster on Jul 26, 2017 13:51:26 GMT
Just a thought, and I know there's a long way to go, but maybe starting the season with a stripped down, younger and potentially weaker squad might not be the end of the world. Lowered expectations and the chances of the bearpit making a return if we get embroiled in a full on relegation battle might help to bring a new sense of direction. If we do blood a few youngsters and if we do have a half decent season and preserve our top flight status then it might be a stepping stone for a much brighter future. All that said hopefully it's unnecessary knicker wetting and we'll cruise to a top 8 finish! I still think we'll invest to improve the team, so I'm definitely not being a doom-merchant. Got to admit though that reading your third paragraph, the first thing that came into my head was 'Aston Villa'. They relied on kids who looked promising and they were expected to grow into a decent team, but it didn't work out like that. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that some of the youngsters are starting to get a look in, but if we're relying on them to do a man's job, I think we might be playing with fire. In some ways I think we've been a bit unlucky with the timing of all this. Looks like the youngsters are a year off being really ready and we needed the old un's to last that extra year. Whether we're going to gamble that the 'kiddies' are ready or whether reinforcements are on the way (which sadly might stunt the youngsters' progress) remains to be seen. Aston Villa didn't get relegated playing their young players. That was mainly Paul Lambert who used a lot of youngsters and always kept them up. Sherwood spent a ton of money replacing them with foreigners and has beens and then they employed Garde to replace him who was a really strange choice for a club in trouble. They were relegated by bad executive decisions not by giving young players a crack. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 14:16:33 GMT
I still think we'll invest to improve the team, so I'm definitely not being a doom-merchant. Got to admit though that reading your third paragraph, the first thing that came into my head was 'Aston Villa'. They relied on kids who looked promising and they were expected to grow into a decent team, but it didn't work out like that. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that some of the youngsters are starting to get a look in, but if we're relying on them to do a man's job, I think we might be playing with fire. In some ways I think we've been a bit unlucky with the timing of all this. Looks like the youngsters are a year off being really ready and we needed the old un's to last that extra year. Whether we're going to gamble that the 'kiddies' are ready or whether reinforcements are on the way (which sadly might stunt the youngsters' progress) remains to be seen. Aston Villa didn't get relegated playing their young players. That was mainly Paul Lambert who used a lot of youngsters and always kept them up. Sherwood spent a ton of money replacing them with foreigners and has beens and then they employed Garde to replace him who was a really strange choice for a club in trouble. They were relegated by bad executive decisions not by giving young players a crack. Being honest, I didn't really keep tabs too closely on what their team looked like when they were relegated (other than it being shit  ). It was more the fact that the future didn't turn out as brightly as had been predicted after they'd initially shown a lot of promise having been thrown in at the deep end. Obviously a heck of a lot of bad decisions were made along the way. I wasn't solely blaming the wee bairns. |
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 26, 2017 14:31:31 GMT
Just a thought, and I know there's a long way to go, but maybe starting the season with a stripped down, younger and potentially weaker squad might not be the end of the world. Lowered expectations and the chances of the bearpit making a return if we get embroiled in a full on relegation battle might help to bring a new sense of direction. If we do blood a few youngsters and if we do have a half decent season and preserve our top flight status then it might be a stepping stone for a much brighter future. All that said hopefully it's unnecessary knicker wetting and we'll cruise to a top 8 finish! And a pretty good thought at that foxy......but what the hell do you think your doing by posting something sensible with any kind of reasonable perspective on here? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 16:05:59 GMT
I suppose it depends how you'd feel about a trip to the Championship, last time we fell out of the top flight it took us nearly a quarter of a century to get back, this plan is definitely not for me! I'm assuming/hoping we won't get relegated. Just. And then the more experienced youngsters have the experience to go on and achieve more in following seasons. Hopefully we have just about enough to stay out of the bottom three. Wouldn't they get the same experience if we loaned them out to a championship club where they belong?
If they are not ready do not put them in the team it will destroy them and us. simples.
We need to play "The best we have" because if we don't improve on last seasons piss poor effort we will be in a relegation fight.
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 26, 2017 19:21:40 GMT
Lots of folk on here have been banging the "lets get rid of the older guard and bring in youth" drum for months if not years, now Hughes has done as asked the same people are trying to skin him alive! We have some very good youngsters comming through the ranks so lets give them a chance, they cant do much worse than our fullbacks of last season can they? The problem is, I personally think it's a year too soon. But it's just going to be rocky. |
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). It was more the fact that the future didn't turn out as brightly as had been predicted after they'd initially shown a lot of promise having been thrown in at the deep end. Obviously a heck of a lot of bad decisions were made along the way. I wasn't solely blaming the wee bairns.
