|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 10, 2017 8:27:55 GMT
And who is just beyond us? Just wondered because there are some biggish names who might not get first team football at their clubs anymore, but might walk into ours. Who could we get, and who wouldn't entertain us?
|
|
|
|
Post by StokeTudoGuy on Jul 10, 2017 8:30:31 GMT
Wages will be the sticking point. The big teams willing to pay huge sums for bench warmers has changed player expectation and made that kind of transfer more tricky.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 8:37:38 GMT
You have to be ambitious. Would any of us have expected to be watching the likes of Bojan and Shaqiri a few seasons back?
But the problem is wages, once we become a team willing to spend £100k+ a week regularly then I think we're walking a massive tightrope. Because unless we put ticket prices up dramatically, strike a couple of huge advertising/sponsorship deals to generate more income, or see our scouting system/academy come to fruition so we can start selling players on for massive profits the we're only a couple of bad seasons away from potential financial disaster.
It's not very sexy I know but I think we're doing it fairly sensibly, set a wage cap of £80k (I think it's around that) and go from there, if that means missing out to the likes of Palace/Bournemouth occasionally then so be it as far as I'm concerned. Palace above anyone should know the dangers but they're still willing to spunk over £100k a week on wages for the likes of Zaha......
|
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 10, 2017 8:50:55 GMT
It'd be nice to target a few more players on their way up rather than constantly looking at those at big clubs forced to take a step back. Tymon is a good start, and Ramadan falls into that category too.
I'm mystified as to why we dismissed the idea of Charlie Taylor out of hand when he appeared to be exactly what we need, and the lower leagues seem completely off our radar.
|
|
|
|
Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 10, 2017 8:55:04 GMT
Anyone that Everton don't want is fair game
Injury risk good players
Cherry picking Young players from struggling teams
Squad players from top European sides
Loans from top sides
|
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 10, 2017 9:32:00 GMT
You have to be ambitious. Would any of us have expected to be watching the likes of Bojan and Shaqiri a few seasons back? But the problem is wages, once we become a team willing to spend £100k+ a week regularly then I think we're walking a massive tightrope. Because unless we put ticket prices up dramatically, strike a couple of huge advertising/sponsorship deals to generate more income, or see our scouting system/academy come to fruition so we can start selling players on for massive profits the we're only a couple of bad seasons away from potential financial disaster. It's not very sexy I know but I think we're doing it fairly sensibly, set a wage cap of £80k (I think it's around that) and go from there, if that means missing out to the likes of Palace/Bournemouth occasionally then so be it as far as I'm concerned. Palace above anyone should know the dangers but they're still willing to spunk over £100k a week on wages for the likes of Zaha...... Fair points, but I also think some of the players who seem out of our reach would have improved us. Benteke, Redmond and even Zaha have been available and I would have liked any of them to sign, Benteke especially. If we are not going down that route, we are going to have to take punts on promising Championship players, hoping they can make it or be very lucky unearthing gems from abroad. I would have liked us to have gone in for Josh King, personally and would try for Gray from Burnley. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 9:37:20 GMT
You have to be ambitious. Would any of us have expected to be watching the likes of Bojan and Shaqiri a few seasons back? But the problem is wages, once we become a team willing to spend £100k+ a week regularly then I think we're walking a massive tightrope. Because unless we put ticket prices up dramatically, strike a couple of huge advertising/sponsorship deals to generate more income, or see our scouting system/academy come to fruition so we can start selling players on for massive profits the we're only a couple of bad seasons away from potential financial disaster. It's not very sexy I know but I think we're doing it fairly sensibly, set a wage cap of £80k (I think it's around that) and go from there, if that means missing out to the likes of Palace/Bournemouth occasionally then so be it as far as I'm concerned. Palace above anyone should know the dangers but they're still willing to spunk over £100k a week on wages for the likes of Zaha...... Fair points, but I also think some of the players who seem out of our reach would have improved us. Benteke, Redmond and even Zaha have been available and I would have liked any of them to sign, Benteke especially. If we are not going down that route, we are going to have to take punts on promising Championship players, hoping they can make it or be very lucky unearthing gems from abroad. I would have liked us to have gone in for Josh King, personally and would try for Gray from Burnley. I agree. There are young Championship players out there we should be looking at, you've got time to integrate them into your squad as well without them banging on the door demanding to be picked week in week out necessarily. I don't think Redmond came down to wages more the fact he just preferred the Southampton option, Benteke wouldn't have sat right with me if he was on £100k a week definitely not.... |
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jul 10, 2017 9:40:29 GMT
It'd be nice to target a few more players on their way up rather than constantly looking at those at big clubs forced to take a step back. Tymon is a good start, and Ramadan falls into that category too. I'm mystified as to why we dismissed the idea of Charlie Taylor out of hand when he appeared to be exactly what we need, and the lower leagues seem completely off our radar.This thought has been with me for a long time. There seem to be few players like Vardy these days, who get spotted in the lower leagues and move up to the Prem. It seems top clubs are more impressed with players who flatter in the weaker foreign leagues and then can't cut it in the Prem. |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 10, 2017 9:48:22 GMT
It'd be nice to target a few more players on their way up rather than constantly looking at those at big clubs forced to take a step back. Tymon is a good start, and Ramadan falls into that category too. I'm mystified as to why we dismissed the idea of Charlie Taylor out of hand when he appeared to be exactly what we need, and the lower leagues seem completely off our radar.This thought has been with me for a long time. There seem to be few players like Vardy these days, who get spotted in the lower leagues and move up to the Prem. It seems top clubs are more impressed with players who flatter in the weaker foreign leagues and then can't cut it in the Prem. To be fair, there are plenty of clubs of our sort of stature who do take a punt, it's just frustrating that we seem so reticent to do that. Delle Ali, Aaron Cresswell, Demarai Gray, the Barnsley lads Everton signed etc. |
|
|
|
Post by alster on Jul 10, 2017 10:02:11 GMT
This thought has been with me for a long time. There seem to be few players like Vardy these days, who get spotted in the lower leagues and move up to the Prem. It seems top clubs are more impressed with players who flatter in the weaker foreign leagues and then can't cut it in the Prem. To be fair, there are plenty of clubs of our sort of stature who do take a punt, it's just frustrating that we seem so reticent to do that. Delle Ali, Aaron Cresswell, Demarai Gray, the Barnsley lads Everton signed etc. It seems there has been an approach at Stoke to have a full squad of 25 senior pro's all on the sort of wages that senior pro's expect. That drives your wages as a percentage of turnover very high and leaves no room in the squad for the mid range sort of punts we're talking about, punts that are ready for a crack at the Prem all our punts seem to be players who are a few years short of being ready. |
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 10, 2017 10:11:43 GMT
To be fair, there are plenty of clubs of our sort of stature who do take a punt, it's just frustrating that we seem so reticent to do that. Delle Ali, Aaron Cresswell, Demarai Gray, the Barnsley lads Everton signed etc. It seems there has been an approach at Stoke to have a full squad of 25 senior pro's all on the sort of wages that senior pro's expect. That drives your wages as a percentage of turnover very high and leaves no room in the squad for the mid range sort of punts we're talking about, punts that are ready for a crack at the Prem all our punts seem to be players who are a few years short of being ready. What I don't quite understand is how transfer policy, like so many aspects over the last year, seems to have reverted to what it was like under the old regime. When Hughes arrived he talked about the value of pace and the club talked of buying young and looking to sell on for big money. Now we're the slowest team in the league and one of the oldest, with our marquee signings mainly looking like dogs' home jobs. |
|
|
|
Post by hanibal7 on Jul 10, 2017 10:17:57 GMT
number nine for wages????? 11 worse than us.
|
|
|
|
Post by alster on Jul 10, 2017 10:27:32 GMT
It seems there has been an approach at Stoke to have a full squad of 25 senior pro's all on the sort of wages that senior pro's expect. That drives your wages as a percentage of turnover very high and leaves no room in the squad for the mid range sort of punts we're talking about, punts that are ready for a crack at the Prem all our punts seem to be players who are a few years short of being ready. What I don't quite understand is how transfer policy, like so many aspects over the last year, seems to have reverted to what it was like under the old regime. When Hughes arrived he talked about the value of pace and the club talked of buying young and looking to sell on for big money. Now we're the slowest team in the league and one of the oldest, with our marquee signings mainly looking like dogs' home jobs. Well you can see for a start with his striker purchases that Hughes doesn't seem to value pace and power which is a bit strange. He's always been a bit of a hoarder of old players too. The mystery of him becoming more Pulislike is baffling, he knows he was brought in to move away from all that but has become increasingly similar over the last 2 seasons, turgid tactics, timid game management, baffling selections, no trust in youngsters, rifts with players, favouring workrate over flair. I've said before its almost like he's been possessed by Pulis. |
|
|
|
Post by alster on Jul 10, 2017 10:28:31 GMT
number nine for wages????? 11 worse than us. Thats because we're paying too many old has beens bloody good money. |
|
|
|
Post by hanibal7 on Jul 10, 2017 10:37:19 GMT
number nine for wages????? 11 worse than us. Thats because we're paying too many old has beens bloody good money. Experience and youth is ok, they weren't has been when we signed most of them, |
|
|
|
Post by alster on Jul 10, 2017 10:42:53 GMT
Thats because we're paying too many old has beens bloody good money. Experience and youth is ok, they weren't has been when we signed most of them, Should have been moved on not given contract extensions. Too much experience = too many old legs, too many high wages, too few players bought in to refresh the squad. |
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Jul 10, 2017 11:08:39 GMT
We have Bojan, even Messi and Ronaldo are beneath us.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnnysoul60 on Jul 10, 2017 12:21:56 GMT
Young players who don't quite make it with the top 7
Old Players who can no longer quite make it with the top 7
Injury prone talented players
Misfits
I'd love us to invest in scouting and take risks and play younger players and take some up and coming ones from lower leagues
|
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Jul 10, 2017 12:57:55 GMT
And who is just beyond us? Just wondered because there are some biggish names who might not get first team football at their clubs anymore, but might walk into ours. Who could we get, and who wouldn't entertain us? We are around 13th choice in the premier league taking into account, reputation, location, wages and European football. It's why most of our big deals get done late often as a last resort. There might be exceptions but of the teams in similar stature London and southern clubs plus Newcastle and the likes of villa are behind us |
|
|
|
Post by flea79 on Jul 10, 2017 13:11:10 GMT
with the riches on offer in the league and our owners financial clout we should be able to compete with anybody in the country, however the sheer stupidity of the money being thrown about now is astonishing, I have just read that Swansea want 50 million for Sigurdsson, hes not bad but not that good
on that basis I must be worth a few quid
just out of interest does anybody have a list of the wealth of each PL teams owner?
|
|
|
|
Post by jezzascfc on Jul 10, 2017 13:15:09 GMT
I would like us to look at younger players on the up more than experienced pros looking for a last big pay day. As said above, Tymon and Ramadan are a good start, and we have a few very promising kiddies coming through now, but really could we find no other defensive midfielder to acquire who could do a good job for us than a 33 year old Darren Fletcher? Continental clubs below the very top ones pay way lower wages than us and surely, if carefully scouted, we could unearth one or two decent prospects?
If we look to Delph types, dropping down from the top 6, wages will always be an issue. Bench warmers at such clubs get paid higher amounts than our top earners and often get fat, lazy and lacking in desire (now called "Bony idle") due to too much money and too little game time.
|
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 10, 2017 16:37:29 GMT
And who is just beyond us? Just wondered because there are some biggish names who might not get first team football at their clubs anymore, but might walk into ours. Who could we get, and who wouldn't entertain us? We are around 13th choice in the premier league taking into account, reputation, location, wages and European football. It's why most of our big deals get done late often as a last resort. There might be exceptions but of the teams in similar stature London and southern clubs plus Newcastle and the likes of villa are behind us Did you mean ahead of us? Yes, I just wondered what people thought our standing was and which higher profile players would consider us beneath them? I mean, if you had played for Manchester United would you come to Stoke, even if you were struggling for a first team place? Trying to establish our level? |
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Jul 10, 2017 16:59:58 GMT
We are around 13th choice in the premier league taking into account, reputation, location, wages and European football. It's why most of our big deals get done late often as a last resort. There might be exceptions but of the teams in similar stature London and southern clubs plus Newcastle and the likes of villa are behind us Did you mean ahead of us? Yes, I just wondered what people thought our standing was and which higher profile players would consider us beneath them? I mean, if you had played for Manchester United would you come to Stoke, even if you were struggling for a first team place? Trying to establish our level? Before you come to stoke. You start crossing off the clubs you would like to go to first but for what ever reason won't have you Liverpool The shit Citeh Spurs Everton Arsenal Spurs Then location and maybe wages West Ham Bournemouth Southampton Then size of club history etc and maybe wages Newcastle Then you look at the rest, take into account wages location and position in league Stoke Brom Swansea Leicester (soon to forget their title) Then you have your likely strugglers Huddersfield Sunderland Burnley Watford Brighton So really it's quite hard to get prem players in unless they are already in north west and don't want to move. Since in the prem we've signed loads of midlands/north west players A few from north east some of who are from the north west Not many southern players It's harder to get deals done than it is on football manager. And it's not always a case of wages |
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Jul 10, 2017 17:01:30 GMT
If we look to Delph types, dropping down from the top 6, wages will always be an issue. Bench warmers at such clubs get paid higher amounts than our top earners and often get fat, lazy and lacking in desire (now called "Bony idle") due to too much money and too little game time. This is the worse consequence of big money in the game imo |
|
|
|
Post by duckling on Jul 10, 2017 18:43:06 GMT
Did you mean ahead of us? Yes, I just wondered what people thought our standing was and which higher profile players would consider us beneath them? I mean, if you had played for Manchester United would you come to Stoke, even if you were struggling for a first team place? Trying to establish our level? Before you come to stoke. You start crossing off the clubs you would like to go to first but for what ever reason won't have you Liverpool The shit Citeh Spurs Everton Arsenal Spurs Then location and maybe wages West Ham Bournemouth Southampton Then size of club history etc and maybe wages Newcastle Then you look at the rest, take into account wages location and position in league Stoke Brom Swansea Leicester (soon to forget their title) Then you have your likely strugglers Huddersfield Sunderland Burnley Watford Brighton So really it's quite hard to get prem players in unless they are already in north west and don't want to move. Since in the prem we've signed loads of midlands/north west players A few from north east some of who are from the north west Not many southern players It's harder to get deals done than it is on football manager. And it's not always a case of wages I think this is an accurate table. It's very hard for a club the size and location of Stoke to convince a good player in their prime. |
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Jul 10, 2017 18:47:54 GMT
Before you come to stoke. You start crossing off the clubs you would like to go to first but for what ever reason won't have you Liverpool The shit Citeh Spurs Everton Arsenal Spurs Then location and maybe wages West Ham Bournemouth Southampton Then size of club history etc and maybe wages Newcastle Then you look at the rest, take into account wages location and position in league Stoke Brom Swansea Leicester (soon to forget their title) Then you have your likely strugglers Huddersfield Sunderland Burnley Watford Brighton So really it's quite hard to get prem players in unless they are already in north west and don't want to move. Since in the prem we've signed loads of midlands/north west players A few from north east some of who are from the north west Not many southern players It's harder to get deals done than it is on football manager. And it's not always a case of wages I think this is an accurate table. It's very hard for a club the size and location of Stoke to convince a good player in their prime. So using arnie as an example the top clubs did t want him. The next level thought he was a risk so waited and stoke got him Now he's proven the next level of attractive clubs want him. I don't think Everton would bother now. They have moved on |
|
|
|
Post by duckling on Jul 10, 2017 18:51:20 GMT
I think this is an accurate table. It's very hard for a club the size and location of Stoke to convince a good player in their prime. So using arbor as an example the top clubs did t want him. The next level thought he was a risk so waited and stoke got him Now he's proven the next level of attractive clubs want him. I don't think Everton would bother now. They have moved on That's how players see Stoke (and Swansea, West Brom, etc). A stepping stone on their way up your table or a stepping stone on their way down. A stepping stone either way. |
|
