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Post by Staffsoatcake on May 18, 2017 8:06:50 GMT
Take this Sundays final fixtures,clubs you would expect would be going for a champions league place,are playing clubs you would have expected would be playing to avoid relegation.🤑
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Post by kentpotter on May 18, 2017 8:17:24 GMT
Some might say that it's impossible to fix that far in advance?
But pleeeeaaaase, it's not rocket science is it? We can all guess who's gonna be there or thereabouts at both ends come May!
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Post by Onneravineet on May 18, 2017 8:18:09 GMT
No doubt about it.
100% believe that it is fixed, with tough runs for the lesser fancied or glamorous teams that coincide with easier runs for the big ones.
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Post by Gods on May 18, 2017 8:22:45 GMT
Depends what you mean by fixed, we are away when Vale are at home so that is fixing of a sort. It's certainly not completely random, no one pretends it is.
They used to fix local derbies on public holidays didn't they, I don't know if that still goes on.
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Post by werrington on May 18, 2017 8:23:36 GMT
No doubt about it. 100% believe that it is fixed, with tough runs for the lesser fancied or glamorous teams that coincide with easier runs for the big ones. Tottenham v Arsenal , Tottenham v Man Utd, Arsenal v Man Utd ? Cmon mate |
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Post by Onneravineet on May 18, 2017 8:44:16 GMT
End of the season when points are vital for all teams that you would assume would be challenging for the top four or the title. Sorry Wez, it feels like the least random pattern possible. I am probably totally wrong but personally I trust nothing the Premier League does, in terms of their handling of the big 6.
Just look what Halsey came out with, and yet the normally sensationalistic press, that jumps all over cheating cricketers thousands of miles away, barely raised it past the first day.
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Post by TinkerT on May 18, 2017 8:59:23 GMT
It is fixed IMO. You never see first and last game with a "big club" match up and like you say its always lower placed teams for the big clubs on the last game, certainly not as random as they want us believe that's for sure.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 18, 2017 9:09:25 GMT
It must be fixed to a certain extent so that the 'big' games are throughout the season. TV would not like a random last day of the Manchester Derby, North London Derby and Merseyside Derby when all matches have to kick off at the same time. Not good for viewing figures!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 18, 2017 9:14:36 GMT
They openly admit that it's fixed, because it needs to be.
There's more to it than people think, cities with two clubs (barring London) can't play at home at the same time, this immediately causes a bias as clubs have to couple to avoid crossover. But this also applies cross league, so we can't play at home the same week as Vale. Then over the course of 5 matches, a club can't have more than 3 consecutive home fixture, or 3 consecutive away fixtures, so as to create fairness. This coupled with any events occurring within a city creates problems with the police force, so the computer also takes this into account.
There is a usually restriction on derbies on the first and last day of a season, because of public order issues. Clubs are sent a letter in March asking for specific requests for the computer to consider. Then of course you have your tv influence moving fixtures around which can have a knock on effect with the others and indeed, make other fixtures move way down the line.
It's not as simple as throwing names into a hat ffs, and looking for big teams against small teams on the final day is just confirmation bias. I can think of plenty of games on the final day where smaller clubs have played smaller clubs.
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Post by wagsastokie on May 18, 2017 9:16:45 GMT
If only they used clay we'd be champions |
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Post by stayingupforbigbazza on May 18, 2017 9:22:17 GMT
maybeavineet
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Post by JoeinOz on May 18, 2017 9:26:22 GMT
It isn't fixed as such but there are a few things that won't happen. For example, if the shit were to play Liverpool on the first or last day they would switch it about. Same as Spurs v Arse or Man City v the shit etc.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 18, 2017 9:32:20 GMT
It follows similar patterns every year but that's because clubs ask for different things.
We've had mixed bags with the fixture list since we have been up. This years was crap for us.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on May 18, 2017 10:24:53 GMT
They openly admit that it's fixed, because it needs to be. There's more to it than people think, cities with two clubs (barring London) can't play at home at the same time, this immediately causes a bias as clubs have to couple to avoid crossover. But this also applies cross league, so we can't play at home the same week as Vale. Then over the course of 5 matches, a club can't have more than 3 consecutive home fixture, or 3 consecutive away fixtures, so as to create fairness. This coupled with any events occurring within a city creates problems with the police force, so the computer also takes this into account. There is a usually restriction on derbies on the first and last day of a season, because of public order issues. Clubs are sent a letter in March asking for specific requests for the computer to consider. Then of course you have your tv influence moving fixtures around which can have a knock on effect with the others and indeed, make other fixtures move way down the line. It's not as simple as throwing names into a hat ffs, and looking for big teams against small teams on the final day is just confirmation bias. I can think of plenty of games on the final day where smaller clubs have played smaller clubs. That's probably a fair summary. |
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Post by toppercorner on May 18, 2017 10:33:16 GMT
i do believe the london clubs always get a nicer set of home fixtures around the xmas period
less travelling for them, and when they do play away, it's only once in a while
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Post by nott1 on May 18, 2017 10:34:38 GMT
Mystic Meg they are not!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 18, 2017 10:40:57 GMT
i do believe the london clubs always get a nicer set of home fixtures around the xmas period less travelling for them, and when they do play away, it's only once in a while Computer takes into account travelling around boxing day and new year and tries to reduce it. |
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Post by Silkystoke on May 18, 2017 10:44:29 GMT
It's not fixed, my brother's mate is involved in it...
What is a fuckin joke is when the TV companies get involved...!!!!
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Post by Gods on May 18, 2017 10:46:59 GMT
They openly admit that it's fixed, because it needs to be. There's more to it than people think, cities with two clubs (barring London) can't play at home at the same time, this immediately causes a bias as clubs have to couple to avoid crossover. But this also applies cross league, so we can't play at home the same week as Vale. Then over the course of 5 matches, a club can't have more than 3 consecutive home fixture, or 3 consecutive away fixtures, so as to create fairness. This coupled with any events occurring within a city creates problems with the police force, so the computer also takes this into account. There is a usually restriction on derbies on the first and last day of a season, because of public order issues. Clubs are sent a letter in March asking for specific requests for the computer to consider. Then of course you have your tv influence moving fixtures around which can have a knock on effect with the others and indeed, make other fixtures move way down the line. It's not as simple as throwing names into a hat ffs, and looking for big teams against small teams on the final day is just confirmation bias. I can think of plenty of games on the final day where smaller clubs have played smaller clubs. I've often pondered on that, once you factor all that lot in you wonder how many permutations are really left! |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 18, 2017 10:53:33 GMT
They openly admit that it's fixed, because it needs to be. There's more to it than people think, cities with two clubs (barring London) can't play at home at the same time, this immediately causes a bias as clubs have to couple to avoid crossover. But this also applies cross league, so we can't play at home the same week as Vale. Then over the course of 5 matches, a club can't have more than 3 consecutive home fixture, or 3 consecutive away fixtures, so as to create fairness. This coupled with any events occurring within a city creates problems with the police force, so the computer also takes this into account. There is a usually restriction on derbies on the first and last day of a season, because of public order issues. Clubs are sent a letter in March asking for specific requests for the computer to consider. Then of course you have your tv influence moving fixtures around which can have a knock on effect with the others and indeed, make other fixtures move way down the line. It's not as simple as throwing names into a hat ffs, and looking for big teams against small teams on the final day is just confirmation bias. I can think of plenty of games on the final day where smaller clubs have played smaller clubs. I've often pondered on that, once you factor all that lot in you wonder how many permutations are really left! Precisely, it's impossible for big clubs to rig it for themselves, because the actions of doing this would impact on the other big clubs asking for a fix! |
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Post by toppercorner on May 18, 2017 11:12:24 GMT
i do believe the london clubs always get a nicer set of home fixtures around the xmas period less travelling for them, and when they do play away, it's only once in a while Computer takes into account travelling around boxing day and new year and tries to reduce it. well those lucky old southern clubs eh? not quite the same for the northern clubs was the point i perhaps was trying to make. |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 18, 2017 11:27:11 GMT
Computer takes into account travelling around boxing day and new year and tries to reduce it. well those lucky old southern clubs eh? not quite the same for the northern clubs was the point i perhaps was trying to make. It's just tough shit I'm afraid, sending out the London clubs on away days way outside the South at Xmas time would cause absolute havoc on the roads and trains, especially being as though most days around that time are public holidays. |
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Post by skip on May 18, 2017 11:37:15 GMT
I'm with Estranged on this. It would be impossible to fix the fixtures as there already so many factors that have to be considered. One thing springs to mind though - speaking as a hard done to Stoke fan obv., - is that when there are bottlenecks or pinch points or problems with matches, with Sky demanding a Super Sunday every five weeks or whatever, weekend public transport problems and the like, you do wonder whether clubs like Stoke get less preferential treatment than those that have a higher public or media profile. If a fixture problem could be sorted out by appeasing Arsenal or us, one has to wonder whether Arsenal would win out because of who they are.
IF the fixtures were controlled for television, for example, all the big six clubs all played away the same weekend, and it became part of the spectacle, who have got the best away form, the best tactics away from home or whatever, I could see that as being a credible reason to contrive fixtures over the course of the season. This would be arguably more fair to smaller clubs come the day when they need a plum home tie on the last day of the season, but you see that Club X has got to go to Stamford Bridge and win to stay up, and Club Z has got to win at home against a middle ranking team, the odds are stacked against the former and when gazillions of quid are riding on staying up, you wonder whether the Premier League does need some kind of fixture list equivalent of seeding? There's radical for you!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 18, 2017 11:41:23 GMT
I'm with Estranged on this. It would be impossible to fix the fixtures as there already so many factors that have to be considered. One thing springs to mind though - speaking as a hard done to Stoke fan obv., - is that when there are bottlenecks or pinch points or problems with matches, with Sky demanding a Super Sunday every five weeks or whatever, weekend public transport problems and the like, you do wonder whether clubs like Stoke get less preferential treatment than those that have a higher public or media profile. If a fixture problem could be sorted out by appeasing Arsenal or us, one has to wonder whether Arsenal would win out because of who they are. IF the fixtures were controlled for television, for example, all the big six clubs all played away the same weekend, and it became part of the spectacle, who have got the best away form, the best tactics away from home or whatever, I could see that as being a credible reason to contrive fixtures over the course of the season. This would be arguably more fair to smaller clubs come the day when they need a plum home tie on the last day of the season, but you see that Club X has got to go to Stamford Bridge and win to stay up, and Club Z has got to win at home against a middle ranking team, the odds are stacked against the former and when gazillions of quid are riding on staying up, you wonder whether the Premier League does need some kind of fixture list equivalent of seeding? There's radical for you! Probably, but it works both ways, my Vale supporting uncle very often complains when Stoke get preferential treatment during home drawn fa cup fixtures. I.E, Vale very often shifted to the Sunday. |
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Post by skip on May 18, 2017 11:43:49 GMT
If Stoke are treated preferentially to Vale as you state above, this is rare given the probability of occurrence, plus the logistics of crowd control decide who plays when, surely. I don't believe in punching down, even when it's Vale, so I won't say 'sod the Vale, tough, they wouldn't give a shit if it was t'other way round.'
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 11:44:38 GMT
The simple answer is yes because it has to be.
Other folk have covered it in more detail which is good because I conna be arsed.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 18, 2017 11:49:06 GMT
If Stoke are treated preferentially to Vale as you state above, this is rare given the probability of occurrence, plus the logistics of crowd control decide who plays when, surely. I don't believe in punching down, even when it's Vale, so I won't say 'sod the Vale, tough, they wouldn't give a shit if it was t'other way round.' Yeah I agree, it's just the same would probably be the case for Stoke and Arsenal, it's much easier for and preferential for the powers that be /police to move around a fixture involving 27,000 people than it is 60,000, in a hustle and bustle city like London. I think they do the best they can, given there's numerous factors to consider, many of which aren't even obvious a few months in advance. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on May 18, 2017 11:54:24 GMT
No doubt about it. 100% believe that it is fixed, with tough runs for the lesser fancied or glamorous teams that coincide with easier runs for the big ones. That logically makes no sense what you just said. Because then the oppposite will also be true. Glamorous teams will then have a harder run whilst the lower teams have an easier run. What are we SAYING is actually fixed? PLUS surely if it was being fixed this would be to please the TV cameras. SKY would prefer the Premier League to be decided on the final day of the season with a game against Liverpool & Man United or Chelsea & Arsenal. SKY have the biggest influence on the fixture list every season and they want to maximise their revenue by having BIG teams play each other on the best days for coverage. So yes it is fixed but not particularly to suit anybody except SKY |
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Post by skip on May 18, 2017 11:54:45 GMT
It's no coincidence but the bunching of Premier League clubs around the capital and the North West (the two areas with the greatest sum total of league success by a million miles) make this even more difficult to be 'fair' to all clubs. If Stoke don't play Brighton away on a week night I'll be amazed. SCFC ticket steward on the blower to British Rail: Two and half thousand day return tickets for Stoke fans to Brighton on a Saturday in late Spring please.
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Post by toppercorner on May 18, 2017 11:58:58 GMT
well those lucky old southern clubs eh? not quite the same for the northern clubs was the point i perhaps was trying to make. It's just tough shit I'm afraid, sending out the London clubs on away days way outside the South at Xmas time would cause absolute havoc on the roads and trains, especially being as though most days around that time are public holidays. so what you're trying to say is, it makes more sense for all the teams outside of the M25 to come in on the roads and trains over the festive period? my point is that it never seems to balance out the fans of the teams in london never have to shell out more money on away days at the most expensive time of year |
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