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Post by trickydicky73 on May 16, 2017 9:48:33 GMT
I still have a feeling Hughes will play 3 at the back. Why, I don't know, but I can see it happening, especially if Shaq is sold. I just can't see Berahino leading the line, even though some have said that he can. Are my tea leaves wrong?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 9:54:07 GMT
I doubt Hughes knows yet I doubt he'll know by christmas  |
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Post by adamsson on May 16, 2017 9:55:32 GMT
I doubt Hughes knows yet I doubt he'll know by christmas Hopefully Hughes won't be making the decision |
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Post by scfcwebby on May 16, 2017 10:34:39 GMT
I doubt Hughes knows yet I doubt he'll know by christmas He doesn't know this seasons preferred formation yet does he?  |
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Post by 11wilkosinateam on May 16, 2017 10:39:57 GMT
Im thinking we may go for a 3421 like Chelsea
Butland
Shawcross-BMI-Ake
Veltman-Allen-Gonalons-Tierney
Shaqiri-Arnautovic
Berahino
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Post by jimmygscfc on May 16, 2017 10:43:17 GMT
Im thinking we may go for a 3421 like Chelsea Butland Shawcross-BMI-Ake Veltman-Allen-Gonalons-Tierney Shaqiri-Arnautovic Berahino Shawcross just can't play on the right side of a back three. It's in the middle or nothing. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 10:55:05 GMT
I doubt Hughes knows yet I doubt he'll know by christmas He doesn't know this seasons preferred formation yet does he?  Many a true word spoken in jest  |
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on May 16, 2017 11:08:25 GMT
So long as their is a place for Whelan & Johnson, with no room on the bench for anyone under 23, then Les will choose whatever he wants!
If he still here of course 😉
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 11:08:33 GMT
5-1-4
Well it couldn't be any worse!
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Post by slother on May 16, 2017 11:11:09 GMT
3 at the back would be great if we had proper wingbacks. It would make us more solid defensively, allow the central mdfield to be dynamic & pressing rather than containing & sitting, allow Arnie and Shaq to play within sight of goal.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on May 16, 2017 11:21:44 GMT
Im thinking we may go for a 3421 like Chelsea Butland Shawcross-BMI-Ake Veltman-Allen-Gonalons-Tierney Shaqiri-Arnautovic Berahino Shawcross just can't play on the right side of a back three. It's in the middle or nothing. There's not a great deal of evidence to draw such a definitive conclusion. Of the times Ryan has played in a back three he looked far more comfortable and got an assist when playing on the right. He got an assist from that starting position too. When he returned from injury he was played in the middle and the whole thing looked unbalanced. Bruno is by far the better candidate for the central cb role. As it stands even in a back four Johnson has tended to adopt such a high line that it leaves Ryan covering that area by default, so the right of a back three isn't a massive switch in role for Ryan. As for the general point raised by Tricky I should think he'll carry on with the flexible 'horses for courses' approach rather than a fixed/rigid weekly set up. |
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Post by stokiejoe on May 16, 2017 11:38:42 GMT
Very easy
We will have eleven players on the pitch and one will be a goalkeeper. Hopefully most of them will put some effort into it but I am not sure.
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Post by jimmygscfc on May 16, 2017 11:39:17 GMT
Shawcross just can't play on the right side of a back three. It's in the middle or nothing. There's not a great deal of evidence to draw such a definitive conclusion. Of the times Ryan has played in a back three he looked far more comfortable and got an assist when playing on the right. He got an assist from that starting position too. When he returned from injury he was played in the middle and the whole thing looked unbalanced. Bruno is by far the better candidate for the central cb role. As it stands even in a back four Johnson has tended to adopt such a high line that it leaves Ryan covering that area by default, so the right of a back three isn't a massive switch in role for Ryan. As for the general point raised by Tricky I should think he'll carry on with the flexible 'horses for courses' approach rather than a fixed/rigid weekly set up. Fair point mate, but I just feel he's more exposed there (and yes, I know what you mean about Johnson in a back four). It doesn't help that I'm on a massive downer with Ryan and think he looks all at sea of late. Compare him with Maguire at Hull for instance, on the right of a back three, and it's clear his lack of pace, control and distribution is magnified...IMHO of course. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 16, 2017 11:58:14 GMT
Shawcross just can't play on the right side of a back three. It's in the middle or nothing. There's not a great deal of evidence to draw such a definitive conclusion. Of the times Ryan has played in a back three he looked far more comfortable and got an assist when playing on the right. He got an assist from that starting position too. When he returned from injury he was played in the middle and the whole thing looked unbalanced. Bruno is by far the better candidate for the central cb role. As it stands even in a back four Johnson has tended to adopt such a high line that it leaves Ryan covering that area by default, so the right of a back three isn't a massive switch in role for Ryan. As for the general point raised by Tricky I should think he'll carry on with the flexible 'horses for courses' approach rather than a fixed/rigid weekly set up.
Why, do you think that he thinks that the 'flexible horses for courses approach' has worked this season then?
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Post by cheeesfreeex on May 16, 2017 11:59:01 GMT
There's not a great deal of evidence to draw such a definitive conclusion. Of the times Ryan has played in a back three he looked far more comfortable and got an assist when playing on the right. He got an assist from that starting position too. When he returned from injury he was played in the middle and the whole thing looked unbalanced. Bruno is by far the better candidate for the central cb role. As it stands even in a back four Johnson has tended to adopt such a high line that it leaves Ryan covering that area by default, so the right of a back three isn't a massive switch in role for Ryan. As for the general point raised by Tricky I should think he'll carry on with the flexible 'horses for courses' approach rather than a fixed/rigid weekly set up. Fair point mate, but I just feel he's more exposed there (and yes, I know what you mean about Johnson in a back four). It doesn't help that I'm on a massive downer with Ryan and think he looks all at sea of late. Compare him with Maguire at Hull for instance, on the right of a back three, and it's clear his lack of pace, control and distribution is magnified...IMHO of course. The recently relegated Maguire? Only joking I've been a big fan of Maguire's {since a mate told me to look out for him in his Sheffield days, took a trip to VP mainly to watch him about three years ago. He was imperious as a centre back, I've advocated him as our next Ryan more or less ever since.} However despite him scoring I wasn't really that impressed with him at our place recently, pulled out of position I thought. I'm having a few reservations despite the current hype. Bit of a freak of nature, a big lump of a boy/bloke probably still growing I fear his physique could easily go tits up. I could be wrong. I've still got a lot of time for Ryan and think he's a better 'player' now he's cut out the wrestling, other than the dodgy backpass against Liverpool I don't think he's done a lot to be down about, especially considering the back surgery etc. He was never going to be a partner with Wolly though. I like the sound {and the small amount I've seen} of Sweeney. |
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Post by alster on May 16, 2017 11:59:43 GMT
Shawcross just can't play on the right side of a back three. It's in the middle or nothing. There's not a great deal of evidence to draw such a definitive conclusion. Of the times Ryan has played in a back three he looked far more comfortable and got an assist when playing on the right. He got an assist from that starting position too. When he returned from injury he was played in the middle and the whole thing looked unbalanced. Bruno is by far the better candidate for the central cb role. As it stands even in a back four Johnson has tended to adopt such a high line that it leaves Ryan covering that area by default, so the right of a back three isn't a massive switch in role for Ryan. As for the general point raised by Tricky I should think he'll carry on with the flexible 'horses for courses' approach rather than a fixed/rigid weekly set up. I'm sure you and Hughes are the only people who watch Stoke on a regular basis and believe that that is anything other than the road to ruin. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on May 16, 2017 12:09:46 GMT
There's not a great deal of evidence to draw such a definitive conclusion. Of the times Ryan has played in a back three he looked far more comfortable and got an assist when playing on the right. He got an assist from that starting position too. When he returned from injury he was played in the middle and the whole thing looked unbalanced. Bruno is by far the better candidate for the central cb role. As it stands even in a back four Johnson has tended to adopt such a high line that it leaves Ryan covering that area by default, so the right of a back three isn't a massive switch in role for Ryan. As for the general point raised by Tricky I should think he'll carry on with the flexible 'horses for courses' approach rather than a fixed/rigid weekly set up.
Why, do you think that he thinks that the 'flexible horses for courses approach' has worked this season then?
Mixed bag Paul. I think there have been definite instances when switching tack to a 433 {Man U etc}, then the 343 {Watford away etc} then the more 442 thing {Man U at ours} have reaped rewards. Our worst performances and results have come with the 4231 {even early season with Bojan}. Having said that I don't particularly think the disappointing season can be pinned on systems per se. Individual errors/poor decision making at either end {and the football gods not smiling on us} are more the issue. So I hope he does stick with it. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on May 16, 2017 12:12:36 GMT
There's not a great deal of evidence to draw such a definitive conclusion. Of the times Ryan has played in a back three he looked far more comfortable and got an assist when playing on the right. He got an assist from that starting position too. When he returned from injury he was played in the middle and the whole thing looked unbalanced. Bruno is by far the better candidate for the central cb role. As it stands even in a back four Johnson has tended to adopt such a high line that it leaves Ryan covering that area by default, so the right of a back three isn't a massive switch in role for Ryan. As for the general point raised by Tricky I should think he'll carry on with the flexible 'horses for courses' approach rather than a fixed/rigid weekly set up. I'm sure you and Hughes are the only people who watch Stoke on a regular basis and believe that that is anything other than the road to ruin. I have no qualms about being in a minority when I'm in such illustrious company mate. |
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Post by SCFC92 on May 16, 2017 12:14:15 GMT
With Hughes in charge 4-4-RELEGATION!
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 16, 2017 12:22:24 GMT
Why, do you think that he thinks that the 'flexible horses for courses approach' has worked this season then?
Mixed bag Paul. I think there have been definite instances when switching tack to a 433 {Man U etc}, then the 343 {Watford away etc} then the more 442 thing {Man U at ours} have reaped rewards. Our worst performances and results have come with the 4231 {even early season with Bojan}. Having said that I don't particularly think the disappointing season can be pinned on systems per se. Individual errors/poor decision making at either end {and the football gods not smiling on us} are more the issue. So I hope he does stick with it.
I think you're seeing something that isn't there Cheesy.
I don't think it's been a 'horses for courses' approach at all, indeed I think that the actual opposition has had very little do with his decision making.
It's been more horses attempting to find a course, as Hughes has scrabbled around trying to find a formation that works for the players that he has brought in, before eventually giving up on some of them (Imbula and Bojan) - he still (even now) doesn't have the foggiest idea what Joe Allen's best position is.
If at some point he'd found a formation that worked, one that he could really have faith in, then I believe he would have stuck with it, pretty much regardless of who the opposition was.
Sadly he didn't ever find that formation, hence we've ended up having the season we've had.
Hopefully he'll be able get himself on a more stable path next time out.
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Post by reddipotter on May 16, 2017 12:31:38 GMT
There's not a great deal of evidence to draw such a definitive conclusion. Of the times Ryan has played in a back three he looked far more comfortable and got an assist when playing on the right. He got an assist from that starting position too. When he returned from injury he was played in the middle and the whole thing looked unbalanced. Bruno is by far the better candidate for the central cb role. As it stands even in a back four Johnson has tended to adopt such a high line that it leaves Ryan covering that area by default, so the right of a back three isn't a massive switch in role for Ryan. As for the general point raised by Tricky I should think he'll carry on with the flexible 'horses for courses' approach rather than a fixed/rigid weekly set up. Fair point mate, but I just feel he's more exposed there (and yes, I know what you mean about Johnson in a back four). It doesn't help that I'm on a massive downer with Ryan and think he looks all at sea of late. Compare him with Maguire at Hull for instance, on the right of a back three, and it's clear his lack of pace, control and distribution is magnified...IMHO of course. I am also inclined to think Ryan is better in the centre, but, if Hughes is still here, I don't think the issue will arise because Ryan will have gone in search of a manager with some defensive clue. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on May 16, 2017 12:40:42 GMT
Mixed bag Paul. I think there have been definite instances when switching tack to a 433 {Man U etc}, then the 343 {Watford away etc} then the more 442 thing {Man U at ours} have reaped rewards. Our worst performances and results have come with the 4231 {even early season with Bojan}. Having said that I don't particularly think the disappointing season can be pinned on systems per se. Individual errors/poor decision making at either end {and the football gods not smiling on us} are more the issue. So I hope he does stick with it.
I think you're seeing something that isn't there Cheesy.
I don't think it's been a 'horses for courses' approach at all, indeed I think that the actual opposition has had very little do with his decision making.
It's been more horses attempting to find a course, as Hughes has scrabbled around trying to find a formation that works for the players that he has brought in, before eventually giving up on some of them (Imbula and Bojan) - he still (even now) doesn't have the foggiest idea what Joe Allen's best position is.
If at some point he'd found a formation that worked, one that he could really have faith in, then I believe he would have stuck with it, pretty much regardless of who the opposition was.
Sadly he didn't ever find that formation, hence we've ended up having the season we've had.
Hopefully he'll be able get himself on a more stable path next time out.
We won't agree mate. There's been an understandable narrative to the 'chopping and changing', some of it influenced by form, fitness but always looking to "cause the opposition problems". See the long ball approach vs Liverpool, three at the back vs Chelsea {games we lost I know, but did cause them problems}. etc etc. I realise that football management is about negotiating the curveballs but I think the injuries to Jack and Shaq {and to an extent Cameron} and the disappointing form of Bojan and Imbula, and the delay in getting Saido have inevitably had a massive impact on selection. I'm not so despondent about the trials and tribulations of this season. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 12:43:33 GMT
.........Jack.........
New...Ryan...Indi...New
.......New...Allen....
Shaq....Bojan....Arnie
.......Saido..........
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Post by jezzascfc on May 16, 2017 12:48:27 GMT
I hope whatever formation and tactics he decides upon, he sticks to it, so the players know what they are doing, rather than changing formation and selection every damned week. He also needs to ensure he buys players who fit into that system - last year we needed a defensive midfielder and a box to boxer, and he spent 31m on Imbula and Allen during the calendar year, neither of whom were the holder we needed and then hardly played either as the box to boxer (Imbula disappearing without trace, with himself as much to blame as Les to be fair, and Joe mainly being shunted into an ill suited number 10 role).
There is some benefit to a system which plays three up front like Chelsea's 3-4-3 in that it relieves the wide forwards of any defensive duties. Look how Hazard has excelled without Jose forcing him to track back and cover. Arnie and Shaq are our most creative forces (with "you know who" in Germany and out of the picture), and we could try to free them up to hurt the opposition in the final third. The four in the middle are key, and we will have to recruit to fill at least 3 of those roles adequately if we go down this road.
As for a back three, the wider defenders need to be comfortable if dragged onto the flank to cover, and Ryan is just not that player. I would prefer Geoff right and would try Erik on the left, with Bruno (or Ryan) in the middle.
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Post by Praetorian on May 16, 2017 13:41:57 GMT
I'm hoping Hughes settles into a 3-5-2 formation like this:
Butland- Pieters- Shawcross- BMI- Cameron- Allen- Diouf (Right wingback/Midfielder)- Sobhi (Left wingback/Midfielder)- Shaqiri- Arnautovic- Berahino
Subs: Grant, Muniesa, Johnson, Imbula, Afellay, Walters, Crouch
Cameron would play the more defensive role in the centre therefore giving Allen the freedom to pursue a higher press, alongside Shaqiri and co, as a box-to-box(esque) player. Sobhi and Diouf are both capable of the running needed to do both the defensive and attacking work needed. And up top Arnautovic compliments Berahino nicely.
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Post by thebet365 on May 16, 2017 13:58:36 GMT
I reckon he'll see a slow start being the end to his job so prepare for ultra defence.
3 at the back Shawcross, Indi and Wolly
2 CDM's to help them out in Whelan & Cameron
1 CM to help out the 2 CDM's in Adam
1 ACM in Allen that actually helps out Adam helping out Whelan & Cameron helping out the defence.
2 wingers Arnie & Shaq licence to roam but scratching their arses wondering wtf they've got playing behind them.
1 Striker pretty much the only person allowed in the opposition box.
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