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Post by wuzza on May 14, 2017 10:30:36 GMT
I was thinking even before last nights shambles how much our teams of the past would have enjoyed playing against the current set up. The younger versions of Ryan and Glen, Huth at his imperious best, Rory working hard in the middle, Ric doing his little bits of magic and Liam and Matty running at our dodgy full backs - it's frightening. We have simply got to re-establish some core values before we can start making use of the greater talent and resources we now have available. As things stand we are just floundering from week to week but it's not irreversible if someone can establish a clear eyed view of the future and start working towards it.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on May 14, 2017 10:31:52 GMT
I'd enjoy playing against us at the moment, and I'm still pissed from last night.
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Post by feynmann2 on May 14, 2017 10:35:45 GMT
I was thinking even before last nights shambles how much our teams of the past would have enjoyed playing against the current set up. The younger versions of Ryan and Glen, Huth at his imperious best, Rory working hard in the middle, Ric doing his little bits of magic and Liam and Matty running at our dodgy full backs - it's frightening. We have simply got to re-establish some core values before we can start making use of the greater talent and resources we now have available. As things stand we are just floundering from week to week but it's not irreversible if someone can establish a clear eyed view of the future and start working towards it. Absolutely this - We have completely lost the spirit that made me so proud of my club, no fight, no recognition of the working class 'work hard, pull together and find a way' attitude that sums up the fan base, no wish to leave the opposition in fear of stepping out on to the pitch... we may have more skilful player than ever before but we have completely lost our identity
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 10:38:31 GMT
I was thinking even before last nights shambles how much our teams of the past would have enjoyed playing against the current set up. The younger versions of Ryan and Glen, Huth at his imperious best, Rory working hard in the middle, Ric doing his little bits of magic and Liam and Matty running at our dodgy full backs - it's frightening. We have simply got to re-establish some core values before we can start making use of the greater talent and resources we now have available. As things stand we are just floundering from week to week but it's not irreversible if someone can establish a clear eyed view of the future and start working towards it. Absolutely this - We have completely lost the spirit that made me so proud of my club, no fight, no recognition of the working class 'work hard, pull together and find a way' attitude that sums up the fan base, no wish to leave the opposition in fear of stepping out on to the pitch... we may have more skilful player than ever before but we have completely lost our identity That working class thing is and always was patronising bollocks though.
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Post by wuzza on May 14, 2017 10:44:49 GMT
Absolutely this - We have completely lost the spirit that made me so proud of my club, no fight, no recognition of the working class 'work hard, pull together and find a way' attitude that sums up the fan base, no wish to leave the opposition in fear of stepping out on to the pitch... we may have more skilful player than ever before but we have completely lost our identity That working class thing is and always was patronising bollocks though. Doesn't matter what class it is but unless you have a basic framework to hang everything on you turn into the amorphous mess of team that we currently are.
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Post by nik80 on May 14, 2017 10:52:01 GMT
Absolutely this - We have completely lost the spirit that made me so proud of my club, no fight, no recognition of the working class 'work hard, pull together and find a way' attitude that sums up the fan base, no wish to leave the opposition in fear of stepping out on to the pitch... we may have more skilful player than ever before but we have completely lost our identity That working class thing is and always was patronising bollocks though. Quite right, every good side plays with that kind of spirit, regardless of the area they represents apparent class.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 10:53:15 GMT
That working class thing is and always was patronising bollocks though. Doesn't matter what class it is but unless you have a basic framework to hang everything on you turn into the amorphous mess of team that we currently are. Of course but that's nothing to do with working hard or any of the TP bollocks. It's about having tactics that suit the players you have. Or buying players to suit the tactics you want to implement. We had our best identity under Hughes in his first two seasons here. We had a mix of being tough but the finesse of Fonz, Bojan, Arnie, Moses on top of it. And pace too. He should know exactly what we need, we had it before under him. He hasn't replaced two key players in Fonz and Moses and what they bought is what we miss the most. The footballing ability in the middle combined with his physical presence. And Moses pace to get from our goal to theirs in seconds.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 10:53:25 GMT
A team is a reflection of it's manager.
I'd probably agree - grey, bland, boring, dull, lacking direction.
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Post by wuzza on May 14, 2017 11:16:30 GMT
Doesn't matter what class it is but unless you have a basic framework to hang everything on you turn into the amorphous mess of team that we currently are. Of course but that's nothing to do with working hard or any of the TP bollocks. It's about having tactics that suit the players you have. Or buying players to suit the tactics you want to implement. We had our best identity under Hughes in his first two seasons here. We had a mix of being tough but the finesse of Fonz, Bojan, Arnie, Moses on top of it. And pace too. He should know exactly what we need, we had it before under him. He hasn't replaced two key players in Fonz and Moses and what they bought is what we miss the most. The footballing ability in the middle combined with his physical presence. And Moses pace to get from our goal to theirs in seconds. You might well be right. It's not about who was the manager it's about knowing what you are trying to be about and working towards it. I don't think we have a clue as to our best system or players at the moment. The point stands though that a collection of blokes relatively inexperienced at top level football and with significantly less talent would probably beat the current team ( can you imagine the fun Huth would have if he came up for a corner against our current defensive set up) and that shows we are lacking something big style. It's regression with a capital R.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 11:22:42 GMT
Of course but that's nothing to do with working hard or any of the TP bollocks. It's about having tactics that suit the players you have. Or buying players to suit the tactics you want to implement. We had our best identity under Hughes in his first two seasons here. We had a mix of being tough but the finesse of Fonz, Bojan, Arnie, Moses on top of it. And pace too. He should know exactly what we need, we had it before under him. He hasn't replaced two key players in Fonz and Moses and what they bought is what we miss the most. The footballing ability in the middle combined with his physical presence. And Moses pace to get from our goal to theirs in seconds. You might well be right. It's not about who was the manager it's about knowing what you are trying to be about and working towards it. I don't think we have a clue as to our best system or players at the moment. The point stands though that a collection of blokes relatively inexperienced at top level football and with significantly less talent would probably beat the current team ( can you imagine the fun Huth would have if he came up for a corner against our current defensive set up) and that shows we are lacking something big style. It's regression with a capital R. Re the corners, that again is down to poor coaching. Zonal marking is a system for losers.
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Post by feynmann2 on May 14, 2017 13:17:08 GMT
Absolutely this - We have completely lost the spirit that made me so proud of my club, no fight, no recognition of the working class 'work hard, pull together and find a way' attitude that sums up the fan base, no wish to leave the opposition in fear of stepping out on to the pitch... we may have more skilful player than ever before but we have completely lost our identity That working class thing is and always was patronising bollocks though. Sorry Bayern but no it isn't, As someone who grew up in a 2 up 2 down and has gone on to relatively successful I attribute a large proportion of my progress to the attitude which was instilled in me from an early age. I live a significant distance from S-o-T these days but will always consider it the with the utmost affection for making me what I am - if you choose not to recognise what our area is about and would not prefer to have your team represent that fair enough but I'm afraid every team represents its history and the place it comes from even those that have been lifted to global recognition by the sickening amounts of money revolving around the Premier League circus Personally I'd appreciate it if you had more respect for other peoples opinions and refrain from trying to push your viewpoint on me or my comments
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 13:19:15 GMT
That working class thing is and always was patronising bollocks though. Sorry Bayern but no it isn't, As someone who grew up in a 2 up 2 down and has gone on to relatively successful I attribute a large proportion of my progress to the attitude which was instilled in me from an early age. I live a significant distance from S-o-T these days but will always consider it the with the utmost affection for making me what I am - if you choose not to recognise what our area is about and would not prefer to have your team represent that fair enough but I'm afraid every team represents its history and the place it comes from even those that have been lifted to global recognition by the sickening amounts of money revolving around the Premier League circus Personally I'd appreciate it if you had more respect for other peoples opinions and refrain from trying to push your viewpoint on me or my comments It's a messageboard, if you don't want me to reply don't post! Simple.
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Post by feynmann2 on May 14, 2017 13:20:47 GMT
Sorry Bayern but no it isn't, As someone who grew up in a 2 up 2 down and has gone on to relatively successful I attribute a large proportion of my progress to the attitude which was instilled in me from an early age. I live a significant distance from S-o-T these days but will always consider it the with the utmost affection for making me what I am - if you choose not to recognise what our area is about and would not prefer to have your team represent that fair enough but I'm afraid every team represents its history and the place it comes from even those that have been lifted to global recognition by the sickening amounts of money revolving around the Premier League circus Personally I'd appreciate it if you had more respect for other peoples opinions and refrain from trying to push your viewpoint on me or my comments It's a messageboard, if you don't want me to reply don't post! Simple. Reply all you want - if you want me to listen and respect what you have to say then reciprocate in kind...
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 13:22:46 GMT
Sorry Bayern but no it isn't, As someone who grew up in a 2 up 2 down and has gone on to relatively successful I attribute a large proportion of my progress to the attitude which was instilled in me from an early age. I live a significant distance from S-o-T these days but will always consider it the with the utmost affection for making me what I am - if you choose not to recognise what our area is about and would not prefer to have your team represent that fair enough but I'm afraid every team represents its history and the place it comes from even those that have been lifted to global recognition by the sickening amounts of money revolving around the Premier League circus Personally I'd appreciate it if you had more respect for other peoples opinions and refrain from trying to push your viewpoint on me or my comments It's a messageboard, if you don't want me to reply don't post! Simple. Reply away then. The man has clearly explained why he feels your patronising comment is incorrect and why he finds it mildly offensive. THAT'S how you debate.....
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 13:22:49 GMT
It's a messageboard, if you don't want me to reply don't post! Simple. Reply all you want - if you want me to listen and respect what you have to say then reciprocate in kind... I couldn't give a shit about that though!
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 13:25:07 GMT
It's a messageboard, if you don't want me to reply don't post! Simple. Reply away then. The man has clearly explained why he feels your patronising comment is incorrect and why he finds it mildly offensive. THAT'S how you debate..... It's not patronsing. All good sides fight. Class and where you come from has nothing to do with that. When TP said it was disrespectful to the area and that remains. It should be a given. Being working class has nothing to do with it. It never did and it never will do.
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Post by feynmann2 on May 14, 2017 13:29:04 GMT
Reply all you want - if you want me to listen and respect what you have to say then reciprocate in kind... I couldn't give a shit about that though! No thats clear - to be honest Bayern you are probably the main reason I only visit this board very occasionally these days - your constant posting and refusal to accept a different opinion stifles discussion and debate and has sucked all the fun out of a board which used to be great Being unwilling to show respect and consideration for fellow posters simply destroys any feeling of community that the board may once have had Anyway I'll get back to watching from a distance and contributing the occasional comment to the Summer Transfers thread - thanks for not giving me the space to air an opinion on a pretty depressing weekend for my club of over 40 years without snide comment or bullshit bravado
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2017 13:29:30 GMT
Reply away then. The man has clearly explained why he feels your patronising comment is incorrect and why he finds it mildly offensive. THAT'S how you debate..... It's not patronsing. All good sides fight. Class and where you come from has nothing to do with that. When TP said it was disrespectful to the area and that remains. It should be a given. Being working class has nothing to do with it. It never did and it never will do. Feynmann disagrees with you though and he's clearly explained why. If you dropped the arrogance and chip on your shoulder people might be more prepared take the debate one stage further. But hey you "couldn't give a shit though" "I say what I like" zzzzzzzzzzzz..........
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 13:30:54 GMT
I couldn't give a shit about that though! No thats clear - to be honest Bayern you are probably the main reason I only visit this board very occasionally these days - your constant posting and refusal to accept a different opinion stifles discussion and debate and has sucked all the fun out of a board which used to be great Being unwilling to show respect and consideration for fellow posters simply destroys any feeling of community that the board may once have had Anyway I'll get back to watching from a distance and contributing the occasional comment to the Summer Transfers thread - thanks for not giving me the space to air an opinion on a pretty depressing weekend for my club of over 40 years without snide comment or bullshit bravado I accept lots of differing opinions but why would I accept one that was one of the reasons I hated the previous manager so much for having? Why wouldn't I challenge that when I find it disrespectful? Just like you are challenging me?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 14, 2017 13:32:45 GMT
It's not patronsing. All good sides fight. Class and where you come from has nothing to do with that. When TP said it was disrespectful to the area and that remains. It should be a given. Being working class has nothing to do with it. It never did and it never will do. Feynmann disagrees with you though and he's clearly explained why. If you dropped the arrogance and chip on your shoulder people might be more prepared take the debate one stage further. But hey you "couldn't give a shit though" "I say what I like" zzzzzzzzzzzz.......... Yes he does and that's fine but there's no need to get precious when someone replies to you with a differing opinion like I did with him. I disagreed with him, he got precious. Not my problem.
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