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Post by gingerninja on Apr 15, 2017 21:23:58 GMT
The Imbula and Bony situations are massive issues for clubs like Stoke who ultimately are trying long term to be self sufficient. Add to that potentially Berahano not working out(hope he does) and serious questions have to be answered.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 21:25:12 GMT
...and then you get to another question. Who DO you trust to come in and spin the squad round, and from a cold start? ...then you get to another question. Is it fair on a new bloke to sort out a british core of players over the age of 30 and a foreign legion that is inconsistent? Is it too much to take on? Will he pick the right players to move on in the short space of time he has to make a decision? You are asking a lot of a new coach to come in and sort this out. The easiest thing here, IMO, is to ask the current manager to carry on and start the sort out based on his opinion of the current squad spanning three years, rather than three weeks where mistakes WILL be made. The spending money thing these days isn't just down to the manager either. There are a team of scouts, a Chief Scout and a Technical Director. They have an arsenal of stats and figures to help them decide on who to buy. Yes, the manager has a say in things but it is not a simple question here. There are hundreds of millions at stake here, not a few pennies. I honestly haven't got a fucking clue but tbh, it doesn't look like Hughes has a clue anymore. He changes team selection and formations like underwear and the lack of any sort of continuity is a massive reason why we're so inconsistent. Half a season without Shaqiri hasn't helped the situation I'll admit but we look a team totally bereft of confidence or any sort of identity anymore. At least in the first couple of seasons you could see what Hughes was trying to do but now I'm as puddled as he is. However, I do agree that in a weird way he's in the best position to "sort it out".. I guess. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you at all. I'm torn. I look at some things and think he's lost the dressing room. I look at it another way and think the squad are just a bit low on confidence and things will be okay after a win (time will tell on that one). I look at the spending and wonder who is signing the players. We haven't really backed Hughes the same way we backed the previous manager. His season by season spending is lower even if he's broke the transfer record twice. I think that distorts things quite a lot. Bare in mind, the TV money has gone up twice since those days also, yet we aren't backing our manager the same in fees? Yet since then we've finished 9th three times? Is Hughes actually overachieving? Is this season a blip? Were we always heading for this scenario regardless of manager? Some things he will carry the can for. The record signings have not been a consistent success, one a consistent failure. That isn't a good record for any manager. Not many can survive that. That said, what were his choices? Who's scouting what? What is the setup? Does he pass a list of requirements to the scouting department and they recommend a list of players he has to choose from? How do we do it? We'll never know so how can we accurately set down a critique of his performance there? What does Cruickshank do? Cartwright? Will we see changes upstairs?
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Post by duckling on Apr 15, 2017 21:47:25 GMT
We're on course to finish with 44 points this season, our worst haul in our Premier League history. Can't see that will be sufficient to get near the top half. We regressed last season, this season we've back peddled even more. It doesn't bear thinking about what next season will bring. I think you'll find 42 is our worst. Position matters more than points. West Ham(?) were relegated with 42 points. The top teams have been so dominant this year that the mid to lower table teams will end with fewer points than in previous years. In addition prize money is based on position and not points.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 15, 2017 21:49:01 GMT
A couple of posts there Onlooker that I agree with wholeheartedly, puts plenty of realistic perspective on stuff.
I'm optimistic etc etc. I also see plenty of positives in the tactical switches.. Fine line between fine football and looking a bit foolish. I maintain Hughes is pushing players to their footballing limits. A bit ugly when they get found out. But it is progressive nogger. Fucked about a bit finding the best platform for flair perhaps. It's interesting and keeps me engaged anyway.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 15, 2017 22:02:05 GMT
I honestly haven't got a fucking clue but tbh, it doesn't look like Hughes has a clue anymore. He changes team selection and formations like underwear and the lack of any sort of continuity is a massive reason why we're so inconsistent. Half a season without Shaqiri hasn't helped the situation I'll admit but we look a team totally bereft of confidence or any sort of identity anymore. At least in the first couple of seasons you could see what Hughes was trying to do but now I'm as puddled as he is. However, I do agree that in a weird way he's in the best position to "sort it out".. I guess. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you at all. I'm torn. I look at some things and think he's lost the dressing room. I look at it another way and think the squad are just a bit low on confidence and things will be okay after a win (time will tell on that one). I look at the spending and wonder who is signing the players. We haven't really backed Hughes the same way we backed the previous manager. His season by season spending is lower even if he's broke the transfer record twice. I think that distorts things quite a lot. Bare in mind, the TV money has gone up twice since those days also, yet we aren't backing our manager the same in fees? Yet since then we've finished 9th three times? Is Hughes actually overachieving? Is this season a blip? Were we always heading for this scenario regardless of manager? Some things he will carry the can for. The record signings have not been a consistent success, one a consistent failure. That isn't a good record for any manager. Not many can survive that. That said, what were his choices? Who's scouting what? What is the setup? Does he pass a list of requirements to the scouting department and they recommend a list of players he has to choose from? How do we do it? We'll never know so how can we accurately set down a critique of his performance there? What does Cruickshank do? Cartwright? Will we see changes upstairs? You've posed far too many questions for me to answer but I know a man who'll know most of the answers.. I'll fire off a text to Tony Scholes and let you know what he says (basically I agree with you, I'm also torn)
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Post by TexasPotter on Apr 15, 2017 22:12:47 GMT
He had to win versus Hull and his subs were spot on so safe to say he's still got the job me thinks with logic and all that gumption.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Apr 15, 2017 22:17:30 GMT
In all honesty, can you hand on heart say you think that Peter Coates and co. are going to let him go at the end of the season? I can't see it at all. Some people are talking as if it's a foregone conclusion. It would be a big call by Coates and I doubt he would make it unless there is someone 'better' who is readily available. Season ticket sales are at record levels, so no need for concern there. We are going to finish mid-table, so no relegation concerns. So it basically comes down to whether he thinks that Hughes has a plan and whether to trust him with the rebuilding job.
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Post by StatesideStokie on Apr 15, 2017 22:21:23 GMT
If we had truly been dragged into a relegation scrap, he would be under some pressure, but can't see it happening now. This season hasn't been great, but it would be madness to sack a man who's guided us to three (possibly four) consecutive top ten finishes. Having said that, there is much work to do in the Summer and I don't think there will be enough credit left in the bank to save him if we have another disastrous start to the season. He is well and truly into his overdraft now, keeping him here and giving him substantial funds should not be an option, there are serious problems with the squad of players we have major rebuilding is required he can not be trusted to do the job, he has to go in the summer. And replaced with who? Give me a realistic name, somebody who has a proven record of delivering consistent top half Premier League finishes, while playing attractive football.....because that is going to be a prerequisite.
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Post by heworksardtho on Apr 15, 2017 22:27:45 GMT
Would you sack a manager who earns you over 100 million a year By any chance, are you on the Arsenal board?... If only
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Apr 15, 2017 22:32:07 GMT
I honestly haven't got a fucking clue but tbh, it doesn't look like Hughes has a clue anymore. He changes team selection and formations like underwear and the lack of any sort of continuity is a massive reason why we're so inconsistent. Half a season without Shaqiri hasn't helped the situation I'll admit but we look a team totally bereft of confidence or any sort of identity anymore. At least in the first couple of seasons you could see what Hughes was trying to do but now I'm as puddled as he is. However, I do agree that in a weird way he's in the best position to "sort it out".. I guess. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you at all. I'm torn. I look at some things and think he's lost the dressing room. I look at it another way and think the squad are just a bit low on confidence and things will be okay after a win (time will tell on that one). I look at the spending and wonder who is signing the players. We haven't really backed Hughes the same way we backed the previous manager. His season by season spending is lower even if he's broke the transfer record twice. I think that distorts things quite a lot. Bare in mind, the TV money has gone up twice since those days also, yet we aren't backing our manager the same in fees? Yet since then we've finished 9th three times? Is Hughes actually overachieving? Is this season a blip? Were we always heading for this scenario regardless of manager? Some things he will carry the can for. The record signings have not been a consistent success, one a consistent failure. That isn't a good record for any manager. Not many can survive that. That said, what were his choices? Who's scouting what? What is the setup? Does he pass a list of requirements to the scouting department and they recommend a list of players he has to choose from? How do we do it? We'll never know so how can we accurately set down a critique of his performance there? What does Cruickshank do? Cartwright? Will we see changes upstairs? Everything you have said on this thread sums it up perfectly. I keep changing my mind about hughes. At the end of the day we have never looked in too much trouble since our first win this season, but Hughes should have got more out of the squad this season, no doubt. The main issues is transfers but again none of us really know how much is hughes responsibilty. Fuck knows what we should do.
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Post by expectedtoulouse on Apr 15, 2017 23:04:52 GMT
He is well and truly into his overdraft now, keeping him here and giving him substantial funds should not be an option, there are serious problems with the squad of players we have major rebuilding is required he can not be trusted to do the job, he has to go in the summer. And replaced with who? Give me a realistic name, somebody who has a proven record of delivering consistent top half Premier League finishes, while playing attractive football.....because that is going to be a prerequisite. Roberto Mancini, currently a free agent.
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 15, 2017 23:06:48 GMT
And replaced with who? Give me a realistic name, somebody who has a proven record of delivering consistent top half Premier League finishes, while playing attractive football.....because that is going to be a prerequisite. Roberto Mancini, currently a free agent. Mark Hughes is currently in a job. Your point is?
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Post by Gods on Apr 15, 2017 23:24:02 GMT
No he's not.
He is 80/1 to be the next Prem Manager to be sacked with PaddyPower which is the same odds as Juergen Klopp and Pep Guardiola, so if you think otherwise you should lump on it, but its not happening, not today, tomorrow or any time soon, so best to just let it go.
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 15, 2017 23:38:22 GMT
And replaced with who? Give me a realistic name, somebody who has a proven record of delivering consistent top half Premier League finishes, while playing attractive football.....because that is going to be a prerequisite. Roberto Mancini, currently a free agent. Get real, he wouldn't look twice at a club with gates less than 50,000. A totally unrealistic suggestion. We are very lucky to have a manager the quality of MH, his record for managing clubs for a full season is impeccable. Look at where Blackburn are tonight, I think they would still be in the top half of the Prem if Hughes had stayed. Without Hughes Stoke would have a very difficult job of holding onto class players and find it impossible (as Pulis found) to attract quality players to Stoke (Crouch excepted).
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Post by StatesideStokie on Apr 16, 2017 4:21:14 GMT
And replaced with who? Give me a realistic name, somebody who has a proven record of delivering consistent top half Premier League finishes, while playing attractive football.....because that is going to be a prerequisite. Roberto Mancini, currently a free agent. Perhaps there's a good reason he's a free agent. What exactly has he done in the Premier Legue, other than fail at a club that has the highest budget and best resources? Great player in his time, but don't see the appeal of bringing him in as a manager.
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