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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 10, 2017 12:27:09 GMT
He's really doing excellently at Bristol Rovers. What do think will happen with him next season? Is what he's done on loan enough to get a squad place with us next season? Or will we loan him to the Championship? He's played 13 games and in that time they've only conceded 8 times with 3 of those being in a game where they were down to 10 men after 39 minutes and all the goals were after that. They've conceded 51 goals in the 29 games previous, so he's definitely made a positive impact. www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=79065
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Post by MilanStokie on Apr 10, 2017 12:29:24 GMT
He's really doing excellently at Bristol Rovers. What do think will happen with him next season? Is what he's done on loan enough to get a squad place with us next season? Or will we loan him to the Championship? He's played 13 games and in that time they've only conceded 8 times with 3 of those being in a game where they were down to 10 men after 39 minutes and all the goals were after that. They've conceded 51 goals in the 29 games previous, so he's definitely made a positive impact. I would have him in and around the squad from the moment his loan ends. 4th choice behind Ryan, hopefully Bruno and Muniesa. If he doesn't see much action come January, get a short term loan sorted to the Championship. We need a consistent formula and competence in getting these youngsters clubs at an appropriate level. Souttar next season, to a team where he can regularly compete. We are massively missing out on getting the youngsters much needed game time.
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 10, 2017 12:34:41 GMT
Sweeney shows what league experience at a young age can do, as he had some game time at Wimbledon before that and now seems ready to challenge for a squad place next season. He should play the league cup games early on next season and hopefully be ready to step up to the bench for league games. If not, a Championship loan may be the next step. He already looks beyond the under-23 world, so no point making him return to it.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Apr 10, 2017 12:41:58 GMT
He's really doing excellently at Bristol Rovers. What do think will happen with him next season? Is what he's done on loan enough to get a squad place with us next season? Or will we loan him to the Championship? He's played 13 games and in that time they've only conceded 8 times with 3 of those being in a game where they were down to 10 men after 39 minutes and all the goals were after that. They've conceded 51 goals in the 29 games previous, so he's definitely made a positive impact. www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=79065He may yet get to play in the Championship without the need to move clubs.
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Post by BrummiePotter on Apr 10, 2017 12:53:55 GMT
Unfortunately he should take whatever permanent move he can as he has little chance of making the 1st team given recent history. How many academy players have actually broken into the 1st team in the past 15 years as a regular? Less than 5 I'd say - I can only think of Wilkinson, Dickinson and Shotton in recent years and the last 2 are a tenuous use of the word "regular". We seem incapable of either producing the players or giving them a chance, not sure which one is right, but either way there's something wrong with our youth policy and has been so for years. At present the Academy is a waste of money and talent. You have to feel sorry for the lads - what aspirations can they have when they never see any of their peers make it into the 1st team, and I don't count a few games as sub in a league cup game as 'making it'.
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Post by MilanStokie on Apr 10, 2017 12:56:12 GMT
Unfortunately he should take whatever permanent move he can as he has little chance of making the 1st team given recent history. How many academy players have actually broken into the 1st team in the past 15 years as a regular? Less than 5 I'd say - I can only think of Wilkinson, Dickinson and Shotton in recent years and the last 2 are a tenuous use of the word "regular". We seem incapable of either producing the players or giving them a chance, not sure which one is right, but either way there's something wrong with our youth policy and has been so for years. At present the Academy is a waste of money and talent. You have to feel sorry for the lads - what aspirations can they have when they never see any of their peers make it into the 1st team, and I don't count a few games as sub in a league cup game as 'making it'. I don't get your point of comparing the situation to "recent history". Our academy has never been so good and there are genuinely half a dozen of prospects that the club think can make it. The fact Ngoy has broken into the team and 2-3 have made the bench already shows "recent history" means bugger all. Under TP, no youth probably ever even met a 1st team player!
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Post by nutterpotter on Apr 10, 2017 12:59:35 GMT
Unfortunately he should take whatever permanent move he can as he has little chance of making the 1st team given recent history. How many academy players have actually broken into the 1st team in the past 15 years as a regular? Less than 5 I'd say - I can only think of Wilkinson, Dickinson and Shotton in recent years and the last 2 are a tenuous use of the word "regular". We seem incapable of either producing the players or giving them a chance, not sure which one is right, but either way there's something wrong with our youth policy and has been so for years. At present the Academy is a waste of money and talent. You have to feel sorry for the lads - what aspirations can they have when they never see any of their peers make it into the 1st team, and I don't count a few games as sub in a league cup game as 'making it'. I don't get your point of comparing the situation to "recent history". Our academy has never been so good and there are genuinely half a dozen of prospects that the club think can make it. The fact Ngoy has broken into the team and 2-3 have made the bench already shows "recent history" means bugger all. Under TP, no youth probably ever even met a 1st team player! Whilst I agree that we are producing better players, the fact that we've had a few kids on the bench this season means nothing. Hughes only put them there as there were no other fit first team players. He had no other choice. Under another manager, we'd have seen a lot more of the kids than we have this season under Hughes.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Apr 10, 2017 13:02:33 GMT
Unfortunately he should take whatever permanent move he can as he has little chance of making the 1st team given recent history. How many academy players have actually broken into the 1st team in the past 15 years as a regular? Less than 5 I'd say - I can only think of Wilkinson, Dickinson and Shotton in recent years and the last 2 are a tenuous use of the word "regular". We seem incapable of either producing the players or giving them a chance, not sure which one is right, but either way there's something wrong with our youth policy and has been so for years. At present the Academy is a waste of money and talent. You have to feel sorry for the lads - what aspirations can they have when they never see any of their peers make it into the 1st team, and I don't count a few games as sub in a league cup game as 'making it'. difference being with Sweeney is that no other player has played as well as he has at such a high level. This is different from Lecgyne getting a few minutes at Doncaster, Shenton on loan at Wrexham, whatever. I'd have him in the squad for next season, first half at least.
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Post by MilanStokie on Apr 10, 2017 13:06:42 GMT
I don't get your point of comparing the situation to "recent history". Our academy has never been so good and there are genuinely half a dozen of prospects that the club think can make it. The fact Ngoy has broken into the team and 2-3 have made the bench already shows "recent history" means bugger all. Under TP, no youth probably ever even met a 1st team player! Whilst I agree that we are producing better players, the fact that we've had a few kids on the bench this season means nothing. Hughes only put them there as there were no other fit first team players. He had no other choice. Under another manager, we'd have seen a lot more of the kids than we have this season under Hughes. Partly agree yes, but I have seen clubs only have 6 subs rather than throw a youngster in.
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Post by nutterpotter on Apr 10, 2017 13:15:14 GMT
Whilst I agree that we are producing better players, the fact that we've had a few kids on the bench this season means nothing. Hughes only put them there as there were no other fit first team players. He had no other choice. Under another manager, we'd have seen a lot more of the kids than we have this season under Hughes. Partly agree yes, but I have seen clubs only have 6 subs rather than throw a youngster in. The issue that Hughes has had (and he has mentioned this) is that our squad is way too big. He's reluctant to drop a senior player in favour of a youngster as he doesn't want to disappoint them. It was encouraging to see him mention a few weeks ago that he wants to trim down the squad this summer to help create a clearer path for the youngsters to come through. Hopefully next season will be Ngoy's breakthrough year and we'll see Edwards and Verlinden get game time too.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 10, 2017 15:06:35 GMT
Championship loan, and if he does well at that level aswell then we will know that he's good enough to step up. I'm hoping he will be a long term replacement for Shawcross but it's such a huge step up it's impossible to tell at the moment.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 10, 2017 15:10:54 GMT
Partly agree yes, but I have seen clubs only have 6 subs rather than throw a youngster in. The issue that Hughes has had (and he has mentioned this) is that our squad is way too big. He's reluctant to drop a senior player in favour of a youngster as he doesn't want to disappoint them. It was encouraging to see him mention a few weeks ago that he wants to trim down the squad this summer to help create a clearer path for the youngsters to come through. Hopefully next season will be Ngoy's breakthrough year and we'll see Edwards and Verlinden get game time too. Time will tell if he's got the bottle. But next seasons squad should really be trimmed down with the promising youngsters taking over squad positions currently occupied by the likes of Wolly, Johnson, Whelan, Adam and Ireland.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Apr 10, 2017 15:57:31 GMT
Seems as good a thread as any to plonk these two questions in... If we did use players like Sweeney, Verlinden, Edwards or whoever next season, firstly are they still young enough that we don't have to name them in the 25 man squad? Secondly, would they count towards our 'homegrown' quota if we don't name them in the squad but still give them game time?
A lot of our older players who most people are hoping we'll be 'moving on' are also players who I'm guessing help us to reach our homegrown quota, they'll obviously need to be replaced with other homegrown players, so do we have to name these kids in the 25 man squad for them to count (How many of the more promising ones would actually count as homegrown?) Or are we still going to need to sign older homegrown players aswell?
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Post by redandwhitetundra on Apr 10, 2017 16:03:30 GMT
Seems as good a thread as any to plonk these two questions in... If we did use players like Sweeney, Verlinden, Edwards or whoever next season, firstly are they still young enough that we don't have to name them in the 25 man squad? Secondly, would they count towards our 'homegrown' quota if we don't name them in the squad but still give them game time? A lot of our older players who most people are hoping we'll be 'moving on' are also players who I'm guessing help us to reach our homegrown quota, they'll obviously need to be replaced with other homegrown players, so do we have to name these kids in the 25 man squad for them to count (How many of the more promising ones would actually count as homegrown?) Or are we still going to need to sign older homegrown players aswell? My understanding is players under the cut off can get named and included in the quota. It would be illogical to though... If you had 25 players under the cut off age and named them all, you have 25 players you can use. If however you didn't name them but named 25 over age players instead... Well then you have 50 players you can utilise.
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Post by MilanStokie on Apr 10, 2017 16:05:23 GMT
Seems as good a thread as any to plonk these two questions in... If we did use players like Sweeney, Verlinden, Edwards or whoever next season, firstly are they still young enough that we don't have to name them in the 25 man squad? Secondly, would they count towards our 'homegrown' quota if we don't name them in the squad but still give them game time? A lot of our older players who most people are hoping we'll be 'moving on' are also players who I'm guessing help us to reach our homegrown quota, they'll obviously need to be replaced with other homegrown players, so do we have to name these kids in the 25 man squad for them to count (How many of the more promising ones would actually count as homegrown?) Or are we still going to need to sign older homegrown players aswell? You could say that we are almost at our Homegrown quota with: Butland Grant Shawcross Allen Berahino Crouch Walters I don't foresee any of these lads moving on for now. Johnson & Ireland should leave, but we will probably retain Bardsley & Whelan, meaning we would probably be ok after all concerning homegrown players.
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Post by bristolpotter123 on Apr 10, 2017 16:31:54 GMT
General feeling among Rovers fans I know is that Sweeney is strong and good on the ball but doesn't have a lot of pace . Pace is what we need at premiership level.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Apr 10, 2017 16:35:13 GMT
Ngoy is rubbish.
No idea about Sweeney but it can't hurt to give him a try.
If he's not good enough then ship him out. Simples.
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Post by heworksardtho on Apr 10, 2017 16:41:19 GMT
Loved him in the flying squad
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 10, 2017 20:23:35 GMT
Seems as good a thread as any to plonk these two questions in... If we did use players like Sweeney, Verlinden, Edwards or whoever next season, firstly are they still young enough that we don't have to name them in the 25 man squad? Secondly, would they count towards our 'homegrown' quota if we don't name them in the squad but still give them game time? A lot of our older players who most people are hoping we'll be 'moving on' are also players who I'm guessing help us to reach our homegrown quota, they'll obviously need to be replaced with other homegrown players, so do we have to name these kids in the 25 man squad for them to count (How many of the more promising ones would actually count as homegrown?) Or are we still going to need to sign older homegrown players aswell? They wouldn't need to be named. Edwards would count as homegrown. Verlinden will but won't yet I don't think. And Sweeney may do. It depends on his age and how many year he trains with us before he's 21 I think.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Apr 10, 2017 20:26:55 GMT
General feeling among Rovers fans I know is that Sweeney is strong and good on the ball but doesn't have a lot of pace . Pace is what we need at premiership level. Well it is now all about pace in the premier league, more so than height and muscle etc, so this doesn't sound promising
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 10, 2017 20:28:42 GMT
General feeling among Rovers fans I know is that Sweeney is strong and good on the ball but doesn't have a lot of pace . Pace is what we need at premiership level. Well it is now all about pace in the premier league, more so than height and muscle etc, so this doesn't sound promising I'd say the position you can get away with it though is CB if you use your brain.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Apr 10, 2017 20:45:59 GMT
Well it is now all about pace in the premier league, more so than height and muscle etc, so this doesn't sound promising I'd say the position you can get away with it though is CB if you use your brain. Or if he has a pacy CB partner who is always looking to cover, like martins-indi.
Personally I am desperate for a player to be brought on and developed so I would love to see him thrown in there if he has had rave reviews at Rovers
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Post by silverdollar on Apr 10, 2017 21:16:04 GMT
Unfortunately he should take whatever permanent move he can as he has little chance of making the 1st team given recent history. How many academy players have actually broken into the 1st team in the past 15 years as a regular? Less than 5 I'd say - I can only think of Wilkinson, Dickinson and Shotton in recent years and the last 2 are a tenuous use of the word "regular". We seem incapable of either producing the players or giving them a chance, not sure which one is right, but either way there's something wrong with our youth policy and has been so for years. At present the Academy is a waste of money and talent. You have to feel sorry for the lads - what aspirations can they have when they never see any of their peers make it into the 1st team, and I don't count a few games as sub in a league cup game as 'making it'. I am not a big fan of Acadamies but Stoke's Academy has produced lots of players who have gone on to play regularly in the football league but they left the club to pursue their careers or they were released. Stoke presently have the best crop of talent that they have ever had! The next five years will see these players filtering into the first team.
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Post by teskofc on Apr 10, 2017 21:36:10 GMT
Championship loan, and if he does well at that level aswell then we will know that he's good enough to step up. I'm hoping he will be a long term replacement for Shawcross but it's such a huge step up it's impossible to tell at the moment. He is and will be THE Shawcross replacement, mark my words! Very clear whilst at AFC Wimbledon that he holds the same skill set as Shawcross, it's his main attributes being his strength and vision. As you say, Championship for 1/2 season for me, maybe a recall come January...
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Apr 10, 2017 22:32:53 GMT
General feeling among Rovers fans I know is that Sweeney is strong and good on the ball but doesn't have a lot of pace . Pace is what we need at premiership level. A centre half doesn't need a lot of pace, as long as they are strong and tall with good technique.
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Post by hanibal7 on Apr 11, 2017 0:30:33 GMT
Well it is now all about pace in the premier league, more so than height and muscle etc, so this doesn't sound promising I'd say the position you can get away with it though is CB if you use your brain. A bit like wooly??????
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Post by Northy on Apr 11, 2017 5:28:09 GMT
Unfortunately he should take whatever permanent move he can as he has little chance of making the 1st team given recent history. How many academy players have actually broken into the 1st team in the past 15 years as a regular? Less than 5 I'd say - I can only think of Wilkinson, Dickinson and Shotton in recent years and the last 2 are a tenuous use of the word "regular". We seem incapable of either producing the players or giving them a chance, not sure which one is right, but either way there's something wrong with our youth policy and has been so for years. At present the Academy is a waste of money and talent. You have to feel sorry for the lads - what aspirations can they have when they never see any of their peers make it into the 1st team, and I don't count a few games as sub in a league cup game as 'making it'. times they are a changing. how many of those players that didnt make it at Stoke have gone on with succesful top level careers with other clubs? none?
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Post by timbo1988 on Apr 11, 2017 5:46:22 GMT
Dele Alli made the step up from league 1 so no harm in giving him the chance next season.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 11, 2017 6:22:41 GMT
I watched Bristol Rovers vs Bradford few weeks ago and Ryan Sweeney was very good. He had Charlie Wyke, Bradfords top scorer, in his pocket all afternoon. My son in law is a Bristol Rovers supporter and says that Sweeney is one reason for their good form since he joined in Jan transfer window. A great prospect imo.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 11, 2017 7:30:13 GMT
I'd say the position you can get away with it though is CB if you use your brain. A bit like wooly?????? No.
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