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Post by metalhead on Apr 5, 2017 11:38:07 GMT
Disagree regarding Wolly and to be honest, I believe our goal difference by the end of this season will tell it's own story.... none of which can be blamed on the big German. Currently it's not too bad...... that might all change in a few weeks. If you don't think those 3 are infinitely better defenders then there's no hope. I don't think they're infinitely better, no. Infinitely is a very strong word, when describing our defence which has been reasonably ropey for the last few weeks, you'd surely agree?
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2017 11:42:16 GMT
Whelan Johnson Crouch Walters Adam Given Ireland Haugaard Joselu Wollscheid Imbula And ideally but I know we need to keep a squad; Cameron Allen Afellay All well and good, but who's going to buy these wasters/has beens?
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Post by reddipotter on Apr 5, 2017 11:42:46 GMT
If the current chaos continues, I can see BMI deciding not to sign.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2017 11:44:22 GMT
If you don't think those 3 are infinitely better defenders then there's no hope. I don't think they're infinitely better, no. Infinitely is a very strong word, when describing our defence which has been reasonably ropey for the last few weeks, you'd surely agree? I think the CB pair have been the highlight of the season and all the issues stem from having no protection from midfield and the full backs either forgetting how to use their legs or in Eriks case having one. So no I don't agree. The centre backs and wingers are the only position I think we're well stocked in with quality. Another CB is needed for cover though.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2017 11:46:23 GMT
Whelan Johnson Crouch Walters Adam Given Ireland Haugaard Joselu Wollscheid Imbula And ideally but I know we need to keep a squad; Cameron Allen Afellay All well and good, but who's going to buy these wasters/has beens? That's the question isn't it!? I think there'd be takers for most of them tbh. Adam, Ireland and Given we can just release. And there'd be championship clubs who's take Walters, Crouch and Whelan. The issue with them is the contracts Hughes has given them.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2017 11:49:56 GMT
All well and good, but who's going to buy these wasters/has beens? That's the question isn't it!? I think there'd be takers for most of them tbh. Adam, Ireland and Given we can just release. And there'd be championship clubs who's take Walters, Crouch and Whelan. The issue with them is the contracts Hughes has given them. I very much doubt any championship clubs would take Walters Whelan or Crouch given their age, and the fat contracts they are currently on. I think I'm right in saying that Ireland and Given are the only two out of contract in the summer.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2017 11:51:51 GMT
That's the question isn't it!? I think there'd be takers for most of them tbh. Adam, Ireland and Given we can just release. And there'd be championship clubs who's take Walters, Crouch and Whelan. The issue with them is the contracts Hughes has given them. I very much doubt any championship clubs would take Walters Whelan or Crouch given their age, and the fat contracts they are currently on. I think I'm right in saying that Ireland and Given are the only two out of contract in the summer. I think they would if they could them on 20/25k a week. They'd all rip the championship up.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 5, 2017 11:52:51 GMT
So many people call Adams head when in reality, he's the only CM who looks forward and isn't scared to have a shot. He was our only player last night who had about 5 shots and wasn't scared. But really, what did Adam do last night? He looked half a yard slower than everyone else on the pitch. He was embarrassed by their lad who set up the goal. He fell over taking a corner..... Unlike Bera, Adam has been given years to address his constant fitness and weight issues.... and before anyone comes back with the cocky "I wish I was as fat as Charlie Adam", yes of course you do, because you're a fucking plumber, or accountant, or sales support, or something. Charlie Adam is.... technically speaking, an elite athlete (a term that nobody said ever, when describing Charlie Adam). He's a sportsman playing in one of the highest achievable leagues in his profession. So you have to contrast him to the others in that league. He's permanently unfit. He's incredibly slow..... and it seems he's done jack shit to ever address those issues. I don't expect Charlie Adam to spring an extra yard of pace, but the fitness issues have dogged him throughout his Stoke career.... and stretch back even further to when he was at Liverpool. Before that, it was a different story..... at Blackpool, he played pretty much 90 minutes of every game for them, without blowing out of his arse. It's a problem of his own making, from all accounts. He ran past their midfield on numerous occasions. He was infinitely more mobile than Barton and Deffour and quicker than Hendricks. Charlie's mobility was not an issue last night. It was more his insistence of whacking the ball aimlessly once Crouch had entered the fray that was the problem. Until then, he was playing well.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 5, 2017 11:54:23 GMT
If the current chaos continues, I can see BMI deciding not to sign. BMI won't sign, which in itself isn't a problem if a) Muniesa stayed on board and b) Muniesa actually managed to stay fit for a season. Sadly a and b seem highly unlikely which makes BMI's permanent signature one of the most important acquisitions of the summer.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 5, 2017 11:57:46 GMT
All well and good, but who's going to buy these wasters/has beens? That's the question isn't it!? I think there'd be takers for most of them tbh. Adam, Ireland and Given we can just release. And there'd be championship clubs who's take Walters, Crouch and Whelan. The issue with them is the contracts Hughes has given them. When it comes to contracts I'm not sure we can lay all of the blame at Hughes's feet. We'll need to take a big hit to get a few of them off our books and start afresh.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2017 11:57:48 GMT
I very much doubt any championship clubs would take Walters Whelan or Crouch given their age, and the fat contracts they are currently on. I think I'm right in saying that Ireland and Given are the only two out of contract in the summer. I think they would if they could them on 20/25k a week. They'd all rip the championship up. Why would they go when they earn far more than that at Stoke?
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Post by metalhead on Apr 5, 2017 11:58:38 GMT
I don't think they're infinitely better, no. Infinitely is a very strong word, when describing our defence which has been reasonably ropey for the last few weeks, you'd surely agree? I think the CB pair have been the highlight of the season and all the issues stem from having no protection from midfield and the full backs either forgetting how to use their legs or in Eriks case having one. So no I don't agree. The centre backs and wingers are the only position I think we're well stocked in with quality. Another CB is needed for cover though. If that's the highlight of our season I would hate to know our lowlight.
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Post by akstoke93 on Apr 5, 2017 12:00:33 GMT
Bardsley - anyone agrees he's actually been decent for us this year? Would 100 % keep as a squad player
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 5, 2017 12:05:56 GMT
Given Haugaard Johnson Muniesa Wollscheid Shaqiri Ireland Adam Imbula Bojan Joselu And obviously wouldn't lose sleep over Crouch, Whelan, Walters. But then we'd be left with pretty much a 5-a-side team. Yeah but 5 players forming the spine of a decent team.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2017 12:10:02 GMT
Given Haugaard Johnson Muniesa Wollscheid Shaqiri Ireland Adam Imbula Bojan Joselu And obviously wouldn't lose sleep over Crouch, Whelan, Walters. But then we'd be left with pretty much a 5-a-side team. He needs to keep Imbula, Muniesa, and Shaqiri for the time being... the rest can go. Trim the squad down, invest in 3/4 quality upgrades and promote Edwards, Sweeney, NGoy, and Verlindon through from the youth team.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2017 12:14:11 GMT
That's the question isn't it!? I think there'd be takers for most of them tbh. Adam, Ireland and Given we can just release. And there'd be championship clubs who's take Walters, Crouch and Whelan. The issue with them is the contracts Hughes has given them. When it comes to contracts I'm not sure we can lay all of the blame at Hughes's feet. We'll need to take a big hit to get a few of them off our books and start afresh. Why can't we? He will have the final say on it surely?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2017 12:15:09 GMT
I think they would if they could them on 20/25k a week. They'd all rip the championship up. Why would they go when they earn far more than that at Stoke? We take the hit and pay the difference. This isn't about money, it's about staying in the league next season.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 5, 2017 12:20:58 GMT
But really, what did Adam do last night? He looked half a yard slower than everyone else on the pitch. He was embarrassed by their lad who set up the goal. He fell over taking a corner..... Unlike Bera, Adam has been given years to address his constant fitness and weight issues.... and before anyone comes back with the cocky "I wish I was as fat as Charlie Adam", yes of course you do, because you're a fucking plumber, or accountant, or sales support, or something. Charlie Adam is.... technically speaking, an elite athlete (a term that nobody said ever, when describing Charlie Adam). He's a sportsman playing in one of the highest achievable leagues in his profession. So you have to contrast him to the others in that league. He's permanently unfit. He's incredibly slow..... and it seems he's done jack shit to ever address those issues. I don't expect Charlie Adam to spring an extra yard of pace, but the fitness issues have dogged him throughout his Stoke career.... and stretch back even further to when he was at Liverpool. Before that, it was a different story..... at Blackpool, he played pretty much 90 minutes of every game for them, without blowing out of his arse. It's a problem of his own making, from all accounts. He ran past their midfield on numerous occasions. He was infinitely more mobile than Barton and Deffour and quicker than Hendricks. Charlie's mobility was not an issue last night. It was more his insistence of whacking the ball aimlessly once Crouch had entered the fray that was the problem. Until then, he was playing well. I thought Barton was one of their best players tbh.
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Post by robstokie on Apr 5, 2017 12:49:09 GMT
Imbula - Where else can you start
Ireland - waste of space
Johnson - old, injury prone
Adam - unreliable and unfit
Whelan - great servant, but legs gone
Given - retiring surely? Looked past it earlier this season
Crouch - Great character but doesn't really offer anything, particularly away from home
Shaq - crock who's not commited to the cause.
Joselu - Not given a fair crack in my opinion, frozen out
Wollscheid - Inconsistent, no way back
Possibly
SJW - again, great character but legs are going and lacks the quality we need going forward
Bojan - would love him to stay, but he's out of favour big style
Diouf - In and out of the side, often played out of position.
Muni - Not given a fair chance to prove himself
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Post by marwood on Apr 5, 2017 13:18:03 GMT
Whelan Johnson Crouch Walters Adam Given Ireland Haugaard Joselu Wollscheid Imbula And ideally but I know we need to keep a squad; Cameron Allen Afellay All well and good, but who's going to buy these wasters/has beens? agreed - It does make me laugh when after a bad game (and admittedly, weve had a couple), you get the Cakers shouting "Get rid of everyone! Buy in 15 really good players in August!", like The Vale did last year. I used to play Football Manager in 1984 (with Kevin Toms the designer's photo on front cover) and it never ceased to make me laugh that you could sell all your players and still watch the highlights of the game where your players were running around on the pitch. That, however, was a COMPUTER GAME IN THE 1980S
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 5, 2017 13:29:11 GMT
That's the question isn't it!? I think there'd be takers for most of them tbh. Adam, Ireland and Given we can just release. And there'd be championship clubs who's take Walters, Crouch and Whelan. The issue with them is the contracts Hughes has given them. When it comes to contracts I'm not sure we can lay all of the blame at Hughes's feet. We'll need to take a big hit to get a few of them off our books and start afresh. To take a big hit and start afresh, to my mind, needs a new man at the helm to do it. Would Les really admit he has got it so badly wrong and offload a truckload of HIS signings at "fire sale" prices? If he does admit he has blown mega-millions, why would the board then blithely give him carte blanche to blow even more in the hope he gets it right this time? I have severe reservations about our doing so and it is neither my job to oversee the club's finances (Scholes) nor my money he would be spending (Coates). As a bare minimum, we need shot of the below: Whelan Johnson Crouch Walters Adam Given Ireland Haugaard Wollscheid Bony (back) If Hughes is to stay, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to try to work with the big money signings he has made and get them Stoke fit, physically and mentally, as he will not be given another huge war chest to blow if he offloads them all on the cheap. So bring back and reintegrate Bojan and Joselu, rehabilitate Imbula and put Shaqiri on a fitness regime which involves yoga, pilates and massage, not 300lb leg presses and squats!! Bolster the squad at full back and defensive midfield and get back to 4-2-3-1, playing brave attacking football - yeah, I know!!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2017 13:34:54 GMT
All well and good, but who's going to buy these wasters/has beens? agreed - It does make me laugh when after a bad game (and admittedly, weve had a couple), you get the Cakers shouting "Get rid of everyone! Buy in 15 really good players in August!", like The Vale did last year. I used to play Football Manager in 1984 (with Kevin Toms the designer's photo on front cover) and it never ceased to make me laugh that you could sell all your players and still watch the highlights of the game where your players were running around on the pitch. That, however, was a COMPUTER GAME IN THE 1980S It's not because of a bad game is it? It's been an issue for a few years now and we shouldn't be even talking about it as the likes of Crouch and Walters should have been dispensed with earlier. Afellay shouldn't have been given a new new deal and the same goes for Adam, Johnson, Ireland and Given who hopefully won't get one. Joselu and Wolly have been fooked off already. It's not computer game like, it's what needs to happen.
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Post by barcaontrent on Apr 5, 2017 13:53:04 GMT
Given Haugaard Johnson Pieters (unless he's backup at best ) Whelan Adam Shaqiri Crouch Walters
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 5, 2017 14:11:18 GMT
When it comes to contracts I'm not sure we can lay all of the blame at Hughes's feet. We'll need to take a big hit to get a few of them off our books and start afresh. Why can't we? He will have the final say on it surely? So Scholes and PC aren't complicit? Christ, they've agreed with the strategy and signed the cheques. Come on mate, no need to twist the knife in further.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 5, 2017 14:29:29 GMT
Why can't we? He will have the final say on it surely? So Scholes and PC aren't complicit? Christ, they've agreed with the strategy and signed the cheques. Come on mate, no need to twist the knife in further. They'll agree to it. If they said no that would make the manager's position untenable surely? The manager has made the decision, they've enabled the decision, that's their job! And it's Hughes' job to make the decision of who he wants to keep and his decision only (I would hope).
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 5, 2017 14:44:31 GMT
So Scholes and PC aren't complicit? Christ, they've agreed with the strategy and signed the cheques. Come on mate, no need to twist the knife in further. They'll agree to it. If they said no that would make the manager's position untenable surely? The manager has made the decision, they've enabled the decision, that's their job! And it's Hughes' job to make the decision of who he wants to keep and his decision only (I would hope). It's the length of the contracts and their value/cost. Saying 'hold on' to him and suggesting a bit of restraint wouldn't make his position untenable and if it did then Hughes needs to have a word with himself. Anyway, we're guessing, you and I. All I'm saying is that by agreeing to his policy they are equally as responsible.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2017 14:52:12 GMT
When it comes to contracts I'm not sure we can lay all of the blame at Hughes's feet. We'll need to take a big hit to get a few of them off our books and start afresh. To take a big hit and start afresh, to my mind, needs a new man at the helm to do it. Would Les really admit he has got it so badly wrong and offload a truckload of HIS signings at "fire sale" prices? If he does admit he has blown mega-millions, why would the board then blithely give him carte blanche to blow even more in the hope he gets it right this time? I have severe reservations about our doing so and it is neither my job to oversee the club's finances (Scholes) nor my money he would be spending (Coates). As a bare minimum, we need shot of the below: Whelan Johnson Crouch Walters Adam Given Ireland Haugaard Wollscheid Bony (back) If Hughes is to stay, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to try to work with the big money signings he has made and get them Stoke fit, physically and mentally, as he will not be given another huge war chest to blow if he offloads them all on the cheap. So bring back and reintegrate Bojan and Joselu, rehabilitate Imbula and put Shaqiri on a fitness regime which involves yoga, pilates and massage, not 300lb leg presses and squats!! Bolster the squad at full back and defensive midfield and get back to 4-2-3-1, playing brave attacking football - yeah, I know!! Great post, and the only I'd add is that he absolutely must start to integrate our promising youth team players into the squad.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 5, 2017 14:58:09 GMT
To take a big hit and start afresh, to my mind, needs a new man at the helm to do it. Would Les really admit he has got it so badly wrong and offload a truckload of HIS signings at "fire sale" prices? If he does admit he has blown mega-millions, why would the board then blithely give him carte blanche to blow even more in the hope he gets it right this time? I have severe reservations about our doing so and it is neither my job to oversee the club's finances (Scholes) nor my money he would be spending (Coates). As a bare minimum, we need shot of the below: Whelan Johnson Crouch Walters Adam Given Ireland Haugaard Wollscheid Bony (back) If Hughes is to stay, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms to try to work with the big money signings he has made and get them Stoke fit, physically and mentally, as he will not be given another huge war chest to blow if he offloads them all on the cheap. So bring back and reintegrate Bojan and Joselu, rehabilitate Imbula and put Shaqiri on a fitness regime which involves yoga, pilates and massage, not 300lb leg presses and squats!! Bolster the squad at full back and defensive midfield and get back to 4-2-3-1, playing brave attacking football - yeah, I know!! Great post, and the only I'd add is that he absolutely must start to integrate our promising youth team players into the squad. If they're good enough Mick, surely? N'Goy has had a sniff but it seems like the most promising are in the younger category (Edwards, Verlinden and perhaps Souttar).
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 5, 2017 15:06:13 GMT
Great post, and the only I'd add is that he absolutely must start to integrate our promising youth team players into the squad. If they're good enough Mick, surely? N'Goy has had a sniff but it seems like the most promising are in the younger category (Edwards, Verlinden and perhaps Souttar). Of course Jim, but this group of players have just got the club into the last four of the youth cup for the first time in 33 years. We have kids who are very very highly regarded by the coaches and they simply must be given an opportunity, if not starting then certainly in and around the squad.
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Post by TexasPotter on Apr 5, 2017 15:09:05 GMT
Anyone who is over 30 with their legs gone like Whelan, or are not playing at all like Bony, Imbula need to go. Given, Johnson and Ireland should retire and any new prospects who floundered need to go too! Clear it out!
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