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Post by roosterscomb on Mar 16, 2017 13:20:06 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 16, 2017 13:34:30 GMT
Stoke and Jez Moxey did Mike Sheron up like a kipper really. Made him out to be the bad guy when all along nothing was further from the truth.
Jez Moxey once showed me Mike Sheron's hand written transfer request. I kid you not. It was obviously a complete fabrication.
Sheron got abuse on his return to Stoke like almost nothing we've seen before, even considering some of the abuse we've dished out to certain players, clubs and managers during our premier league years. Sheron didn't deserve it and thankfully got the opportunity to set the record straight and then return to a much better welcome, one that his performances for us merited.
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Post by LGH87 on Mar 16, 2017 13:45:08 GMT
Stoke and Jez Moxey did Mike Sheron up like a kipper really. Made him out to be the bad guy when all along nothing was further from the truth. Jez Moxey once showed me Mike Sheron's hand written transfer request. I kid you not. It was obviously a complete fabrication. Sheron got abuse on his return to Stoke like almost nothing we've seen before, even considering some of the abuse we've dished out to certain players, clubs and managers during our premier league years. Sheron didn't deserve it and thankfully got the opportunity to set the record straight and then return to a much better welcome, one that his performances for us merited. We did the same with Kav a few years later, but people will just not accept it and still slag him off. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 16, 2017 13:53:17 GMT
Stoke and Jez Moxey did Mike Sheron up like a kipper really. Made him out to be the bad guy when all along nothing was further from the truth. Jez Moxey once showed me Mike Sheron's hand written transfer request. I kid you not. It was obviously a complete fabrication. Sheron got abuse on his return to Stoke like almost nothing we've seen before, even considering some of the abuse we've dished out to certain players, clubs and managers during our premier league years. Sheron didn't deserve it and thankfully got the opportunity to set the record straight and then return to a much better welcome, one that his performances for us merited. We did the same with Kav a few years later, but people will just not accept it and still slag him off. We did indeed do the same thing with Kav. The thing with Kav though is that on leaving he told the truth about our club at the time whereas Sheron pretty much kept quiet and towed the party line in terms of the reasons for his departure. Kav was and remains very fond of his time in Stoke-on-Trent and at Stoke City and he too was harshly treated on his return. The funny thing with his departure was that Kav didn't actually want to leave Stoke. He was desperate to stay. Peter Thorne on the other hand, couldn't get out of the club fast enough. One returned to a hero's welcome, the other was royally abused. |
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Post by cousindupree on Mar 16, 2017 14:26:06 GMT
I genuinely don't do ITK because I rarely do and I don't like 'claim to fame' but I do have insight into the Sheron debacle and that's what it was.
I was on an early morning shuttle from Manc to Heathrow and sat next to non other than Mike Sheron who was heading off to talk to QPR.
Mike Sheron was angry and upset as the club had enforced this move on him suggesting the club would be at risk of bankruptcy if the deal didn't go through. Mike was a northern lad and had no desire to move to London or indeed leave Stoke where he was settled and happy.
The smoke and mirrors that surrounded the deal was not a great time in our history
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Post by Will_75 on Mar 16, 2017 14:26:11 GMT
We did the same with Kav a few years later, but people will just not accept it and still slag him off. We did indeed do the same thing with Kav. The thing with Kav though is that on leaving he told the truth about our club at the time whereas Sheron pretty much kept quiet and towed the party line in terms of the reasons for his departure. Kav was and remains very fond of his time in Stoke-on-Trent and at Stoke City and he too was harshly treated on his return. The funny thing with his departure was that Kav didn't actually want to leave Stoke. He was desperate to stay. Peter Thorne on the other hand, couldn't get out of the club fast enough. One returned to a hero's welcome, the other was royally abused.
I've read that on here before - how come it felt so different at the time? |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 16, 2017 14:56:50 GMT
We did indeed do the same thing with Kav. The thing with Kav though is that on leaving he told the truth about our club at the time whereas Sheron pretty much kept quiet and towed the party line in terms of the reasons for his departure. Kav was and remains very fond of his time in Stoke-on-Trent and at Stoke City and he too was harshly treated on his return. The funny thing with his departure was that Kav didn't actually want to leave Stoke. He was desperate to stay. Peter Thorne on the other hand, couldn't get out of the club fast enough. One returned to a hero's welcome, the other was royally abused.
I've read that on here before - how come it felt so different at the time? My belief is that it was because of how the whole transfer unravelled. Kav knew his time was up at Stoke and that he had little choice but to leave the club. The club needed his transfer fee and as a way of forcing him out of the door (he was out of contract 12 months later I think) they offered him a new contract that was on reduced terms v what he was on at the time. Given he was our best player by some distance, that was something of an insult obviously. On knowing he would inevitably be leaving, Kav, who lived in the area and was friends with many Stoke fans, he stated that he didn't want to leave the club but if he were to leave, he would only leave to a club at a higher level where his international aspirations could potentially be fulfilled. As it happened, for whatever reason, a move to numerous championship clubs failed to materialise and Cardiff came in. He didn't want to go but was given little option in the end. When he left, having said he would only leave to a club at a higher level, it felt like a kick in the teeth to many Stoke fans. When he then signed for Cardiff and described them as a sleeping giant and a far more ambitious outfit than us, though it was the truth, it hurt many a Stoke fan that didn't know or wouldn't accept what was going on at the time. Hence, when he returned, he returned to dogs abuse. Meanwhile, soon afterwards, Cardiff approached us for Peter Thorne. We didn't want to sell him and because of the Kav transfer money didn't have to sell him. Thorney wanted out and wanted the ridiculous riches that Cardiff were offering. He couldn't get out of the club fast enough. However, at the time, there were stories about how gutted both Thorne (and his Dad) were to be leaving Stoke, he was seemingly forgiven and when he returned, he did so to a heroes welcome...wrongly in my opinion. That is my take on things based on what I know of the situation. LesAlanos, who posts on here less frequently than he used to, could verify whether I am correct or not, or even add more substance to it, as I know he was very good friends with Kav at that time. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 16, 2017 15:29:17 GMT
I've been told we should be forever grateful to these Icelandic fruiterer's for saving our club, yet within 18 months they're bundling star players out of the club because we're under threat of administration?
Bit weird innit?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 16:05:31 GMT
I've read that on here before - how come it felt so different at the time? My belief is that it was because of how the whole transfer unravelled. Kav knew his time was up at Stoke and that he had little choice but to leave the club. The club needed his transfer fee and as a way of forcing him out of the door (he was out of contract 12 months later I think) they offered him a new contract that was on reduced terms v what he was on at the time. Given he was our best player by some distance, that was something of an insult obviously. On knowing he would inevitably be leaving, Kav, who lived in the area and was friends with many Stoke fans, he stated that he didn't want to leave the club but if he were to leave, he would only leave to a club at a higher level where his international aspirations could potentially be fulfilled. As it happened, for whatever reason, a move to numerous championship clubs failed to materialise and Cardiff came in. He didn't want to go but was given little option in the end. When he left, having said he would only leave to a club at a higher level, it felt like a kick in the teeth to many Stoke fans. When he then signed for Cardiff and described them as a sleeping giant and a far more ambitious outfit than us, though it was the truth, it hurt many a Stoke fan that didn't know or wouldn't accept what was going on at the time. Hence, when he returned, he returned to dogs abuse. Meanwhile, soon afterwards, Cardiff approached us for Peter Thorne. We didn't want to sell him and because of the Kav transfer money didn't have to sell him. Thorney wanted out and wanted the ridiculous riches that Cardiff were offering. He couldn't get out of the club fast enough. However, at the time, there were stories about how gutted both Thorne (and his Dad) were to be leaving Stoke, he was seemingly forgiven and when he returned, he did so to a heroes welcome...wrongly in my opinion. That is my take on things based on what I know of the situation. LesAlanos, who posts on here less frequently than he used to, could verify whether I am correct or not, or even add more substance to it, as I know he was very good friends with Kav at that time. I had a long chat with Kav when he was Carlisle manager in the bar after a game I went to and he pretty much summarised his departure word for word as above. Wasn't bitter about it but said he was disappointed as he loved the area and the people and was happy to settle down for years to come. He was a real nice bloke, spent half an hour in the bar talking to him after telling him I was a Stoke fan, this was the week before he was eventually sacked when he was under pressure as well but fronted up to the fans after the game in the bar even though they were giving him a right grilling..... |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 16, 2017 16:19:42 GMT
With hindsight it doesn't surprise me but at the time with the spin the club put on it, it felt like a proper kick in the teeth.
I have to admit, to my shame as it turns out, to being one of those who gave both dogs abuse.
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Post by Will_75 on Mar 16, 2017 16:34:22 GMT
With hindsight it doesn't surprise me but at the time with the spin the club put on it, it felt like a proper kick in the teeth. I have to admit, to my shame as it turns out, to being one of those who gave both dogs abuse. Yeah, likewise. I was in the second row near the halfway line, opposite the dugouts at the old Wembley, so was in pole position for THAT goal in the Auto Windscreens Final. I can still feel the bruises on my shins from the mental. |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 16, 2017 16:38:18 GMT
With hindsight it doesn't surprise me but at the time with the spin the club put on it, it felt like a proper kick in the teeth. I have to admit, to my shame as it turns out, to being one of those who gave both dogs abuse. Yeah, likewise. I was in the second row near the halfway line, opposite the dugouts at the old Wembley, so was in pole position for THAT goal in the Auto Windscreens Final. I can still feel the bruises on my shins from the mental. I think it was the fact I really liked both which made it harder. It felt like your missus had fucked off with your best friend. Twice. If I'd known the truth I may have judged them a bit more fairly. I might not of course cos I'm a right one eyed twat when it comes to Stoke. |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Mar 16, 2017 16:43:15 GMT
Putting the club's (or more to the point...MOXEY'S version of it) to one side.....who could really blame Sherron for going, when in the process he banked himself £1M+ in his bank account???
In all honesty, we'd all do the same if I'm a similar position!!!
We were just an angry bunch at the time....and if the club were to ask him out onto the pitch at half-time (like other past players), it would be ace to see him get a MASSIVE welcome!!! 👍
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Post by wuzza on Mar 16, 2017 16:54:42 GMT
Little is as straight forward as it seems in the murky world of football and the rather simplistic view fans often take is probably miles off the mark in the majority of cases.
Something to have in mind when posting heaps of abuse on here about former (and some current) players and managers and their 'supposed' motives.
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Post by mattador78 on Mar 16, 2017 17:09:02 GMT
Jez moxey is a cnut
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 16, 2017 17:37:49 GMT
I've been told we should be forever grateful to these Icelandic fruiterer's for saving our club, yet within 18 months they're bundling star players out of the club because we're under threat of administration? Bit weird innit? You're the only person mentioning administration, I would assume the needing the fee refers changing the squad around, from memory we bought in Hoekstra, Handyside, Sergei and others as well as the likes of Burton and Gunnlaugsson on loan later on. As we got promoted that year i'd say it worked out more than ok. |
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Post by metalhead on Mar 16, 2017 18:00:08 GMT
We did the same with Kav a few years later, but people will just not accept it and still slag him off. We did indeed do the same thing with Kav. The thing with Kav though is that on leaving he told the truth about our club at the time whereas Sheron pretty much kept quiet and towed the party line in terms of the reasons for his departure. Kav was and remains very fond of his time in Stoke-on-Trent and at Stoke City and he too was harshly treated on his return. The funny thing with his departure was that Kav didn't actually want to leave Stoke. He was desperate to stay. Peter Thorne on the other hand, couldn't get out of the club fast enough. One returned to a hero's welcome, the other was royally abused. Had this discussion before. |
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Post by orfyboothen on Mar 16, 2017 19:07:07 GMT
Stoke and Jez Moxey did Mike Sheron up like a kipper really. Made him out to be the bad guy when all along nothing was further from the truth. Jez Moxey once showed me Mike Sheron's hand written transfer request. I kid you not. It was obviously a complete fabrication. Sheron got abuse on his return to Stoke like almost nothing we've seen before, even considering some of the abuse we've dished out to certain players, clubs and managers during our premier league years. Sheron didn't deserve it and thankfully got the opportunity to set the record straight and then return to a much better welcome, one that his performances for us merited. We did the same with Kav a few years later, but people will just not accept it and still slag him off. Spot on lads. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 16, 2017 19:37:03 GMT
I've been told we should be forever grateful to these Icelandic fruiterer's for saving our club, yet within 18 months they're bundling star players out of the club because we're under threat of administration? Bit weird innit? You're the only person mentioning administration, I would assume the needing the fee refers changing the squad around, from memory we bought in Hoekstra, Handyside, Sergei and others as well as the likes of Burton and Gunnlaugsson on loan later on. As we got promoted that year i'd say it worked out more than ok. The clear inference from the explanations above is that the debt was a serious one. You don't drive your best player and captain out when he wants to stay for squad rebuilding. Something doesn't add up. |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 16, 2017 20:14:11 GMT
You're the only person mentioning administration, I would assume the needing the fee refers changing the squad around, from memory we bought in Hoekstra, Handyside, Sergei and others as well as the likes of Burton and Gunnlaugsson on loan later on. As we got promoted that year i'd say it worked out more than ok. The clear inference from the explanations above is that the debt was a serious one. You don't drive your best player and captain out when he wants to stay for squad rebuilding. Something doesn't add up. The Icelanders put all their own money in and Magnus was not short of cash, going into administration would have left themselves most out of pocket so for that reason I just don't believe it. I'm willing to believe they may have wanted the transfer fee for some reason but not to avoid administration. And Brynjar was our best player. |
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Post by march4 on Mar 16, 2017 20:21:44 GMT
Sheron was a fantastic player for us and I have nothing but praise for him.
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Post by onepara on Mar 16, 2017 21:15:43 GMT
Talking about abuse to previous Stoke City employees, in my opinion, none had more undeserved than Alan Ball. He was heart & soul into the club as our Manager, & lived his life for football, as did his father. Both sadly now dead. Some of our youngest 'supporters' spat at him after a game when he was leaving the pitch. He wasn't the most successful of our Mangers, but he didn't deserve that.
No matter how badly our players or Mangers have performed, I have never booed them. And I've been a supporter since the 1940's.
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Post by swampySCFC on Mar 16, 2017 22:23:15 GMT
Talking about abuse to previous Stoke City employees, in my opinion, none had more undeserved than Alan Ball. He was heart & soul into the club as our Manager, & lived his life for football, as did his father. Both sadly now dead. Some of our youngest 'supporters' spat at him after a game when he was leaving the pitch. He wasn't the most successful of our Mangers, but he didn't deserve that. No matter how badly our players or Mangers have performed, I have never booed them. And I've been a supporter since the 1940's. This |
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 16, 2017 22:29:12 GMT
Talking about abuse to previous Stoke City employees, in my opinion, none had more undeserved than Alan Ball. He was heart & soul into the club as our Manager, & lived his life for football, as did his father. Both sadly now dead. Some of our youngest 'supporters' spat at him after a game when he was leaving the pitch. He wasn't the most successful of our Mangers, but he didn't deserve that. No matter how badly our players or Mangers have performed, I have never booed them. And I've been a supporter since the 1940's. It turned sour at the end, but Alan Ball had unwavering support for the first year or so, despite him proving time and time again to be absolutely hopeless. |
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Mar 16, 2017 22:47:36 GMT
I was at the game at Loftus Road for Sheron's first game for QPR against us in November 1997 and the abuse he got that day was the most intense and vitriolic I've ever seen for a former Stoke player. Or indeed any former player for any other club for that matter. That first half when QPR were attacking the away end was absolutely incessant wall to wall abuse and Judas chants of the like I'd never heard and probably never will again. I remember one moment when he slid in towards the advertising boards in front of the away end and he was pelted with absolutely anything people could find including coins, bottles and I vividly remember seeing a half eaten pie fly right past him too. And I'll fully admit I was taking part and revelling in it too along with everyone else there because we'd bought into the story that the club had sold us of the greedy footballer who ditched us for more money and the bright lights of London. Turns out that tale couldn't have been further from the truth and it's quite embarrassing now to think of how much misery we must have heaped on him that day knowing full well that the impression we had of him was completely wrong and he wasn't at all deserving of the abuse.
What we're now hearing about how he liked it here, was settled with his family etc also helps to explain why he failed down there too. The money might have been good but if he's at a club where his heart isn't set, away from his family and with dogs abuse from the fans that used to idolise him ringing in his ears you can see why he never really settled. The club was a shambles in those days and we got what we deserved the following season, relegation.
The shambolic way that the club was run in those days is why I always say that the decision to leave the Victoria Ground at that time was the right one. Whilst our ground is far from perfect and there are many flaws, with how skint we were at the time and how badly run we were it really was probably the best we could have hoped for in the circumstances. It was completed on time, modern, future proofed and fit for purpose. Imagine if we'd have tried to redevelop the Victoria Ground in those days. It would have been a shambles. We'd have run out of money due to not having access to the council money that we were given to build the Brit, there would have been endless delays and setbacks and we'd have ended up with a half finished half arsed bodge job that would have made Vale's Lorne Steet stand look good. We'd probably still be trying to sort out the mess today or recover from the costs of having to relocate anyway years down the line at greater cost than we faced in 1997.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Mar 16, 2017 23:31:51 GMT
I was at the game at Loftus Road for Sheron's first game for QPR against us in November 1997 and the abuse he got that day was the most intense and vitriolic I've ever seen for a former Stoke player. Or indeed any former player for any other club for that matter. That first half when QPR were attacking the away end was absolutely incessant wall to wall abuse and Judas chants of the like I'd never heard and probably never will again. I remember one moment when he slid in towards the advertising boards in front of the away end and he was pelted with absolutely anything people could find including coins, bottles and I vividly remember seeing a half eaten pie fly right past him too. And I'll fully admit I was taking part and revelling in it too along with everyone else there because we'd bought into the story that the club had sold us of the greedy footballer who ditched us for more money and the bright lights of London. Turns out that tale couldn't have been further from the truth and it's quite embarrassing now to think of how much misery we must have heaped on him that day knowing full well that the impression we had of him was completely wrong and he wasn't at all deserving of the abuse. What we're now hearing about how he liked it here, was settled with his family etc also helps to explain why he failed down there too. The money might have been good but if he's at a club where his heart isn't set, away from his family and with dogs abuse from the fans that used to idolise him ringing in his ears you can see why he never really settled. The club was a shambles in those days and we got what we deserved the following season, relegation. The shambolic way that the club was run in those days is why I always say that the decision to leave the Victoria Ground at that time was the right one. Whilst our ground is far from perfect and there are many flaws, with how skint we were at the time and how badly run we were it really was probably the best we could have hoped for in the circumstances. It was completed on time, modern, future proofed and fit for purpose. Imagine if we'd have tried to redevelop the Victoria Ground in those days. It would have been a shambles. We'd have run out of money due to not having access to the council money that we were given to build the Brit, there would have been endless delays and setbacks and we'd have ended up with a half finished half arsed bodge job that would have made Vale's Lorne Steet stand look good. We'd probably still be trying to sort out the mess today or recover from the costs of having to relocate anyway years down the line at greater cost than we faced in 1997. Fantastic post... and as a younger man I too fell for the "Story" too for both Kav and Sheron. While I have regretted what I felt about then (but saw through it when Stoke tried to do the same against James O'Connor) I cannot give Thorne grief for his part as he was pretty humble on his playing return... intentional or not. I do wander though if the Brit truly is future proof, especially after finding out that the corners did not have the corner stand footings in place as originally stated... |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Mar 17, 2017 4:38:16 GMT
Talking about abuse to previous Stoke City employees, in my opinion, none had more undeserved than Alan Ball. He was heart & soul into the club as our Manager, & lived his life for football, as did his father. Both sadly now dead. Some of our youngest 'supporters' spat at him after a game when he was leaving the pitch. He wasn't the most successful of our Mangers, but he didn't deserve that. No matter how badly our players or Mangers have performed, I have never booed them. And I've been a supporter since the 1940's. It turned sour at the end, but Alan Ball had unwavering support for the first year or so, despite him proving time and time again to be absolutely hopeless. I remember him telling a packed Kings Hall in the summer of 1990 - "if we don't get promoted I'll eat my hat" and it'll be "easy". A reserve striker who fans thought deserved a chance was described as a headless chicken in public. Alan Ball played for big stakes, and when it went tits up we ended up in our lowest league position ever. Nobody deserved the grief Alan Ball got, but he could have managed expectations a lot better. |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Mar 17, 2017 4:48:38 GMT
If I recall correctly the club had spent around £250,000 on architects plans for a new Vic, before the Brit was first proposed. Another memory, is I think Ted Smith has been air brushed out of history regarding the Brit. I recall he was probably the key man in getting the stadium built. I felt that Jez Moxey took the glory for the stadium build unjustifiably. Regarding club finances, in early 1997 we apparently bid a record £750,000 for Grimsby's Clive Mendonca. At the time I didn't believe we had that money to spend, and as a previous poster said was 'smoke and mirrors'.
Happy to stand corrected if my memories of that era aren't so good.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 17, 2017 8:52:33 GMT
Talking about abuse to previous Stoke City employees, in my opinion, none had more undeserved than Alan Ball. He was heart & soul into the club as our Manager, & lived his life for football, as did his father. Both sadly now dead. Some of our youngest 'supporters' spat at him after a game when he was leaving the pitch. He wasn't the most successful of our Mangers, but he didn't deserve that. No matter how badly our players or Mangers have performed, I have never booed them. And I've been a supporter since the 1940's. Whilst the hot tea and spit were unacceptable, you only have to read his autobiography to see what he thought about the area and its people. Very condescending. As for putting his 'heart and soul' into it. Really? Maybe until the first race started and woe betide if Uttoxeter was on, you'd be lucky if he put 5 minutes in let alone his heart and soul. |
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Post by lowlands on Mar 17, 2017 13:42:49 GMT
We all knew deep down we were a shambles when just before the play-offs against Leicester we sold our best striker (Peschisolido) why the hell we sold him just before what was our most important games and a change to return to the big time was beyond me. It felt as though we could not afford to get promoted and spend out on all the cost of a new stadium or rebuild the vic back in 1996. History and all that we ended up building a shambles of a stadium at cost and now it is surrounded not by nice bars and eateries but frigging cars that probably the majority of us cannot afford to buy (Audi). The Brit jesus wept compare it to Derby, Brighton, Leicester we have a 2nd rate stadium with gaps and shite services of shit beer in plastic bottles - lovely
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