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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 9:22:49 GMT
It is mid table complacency with literally nothing left to play for. The club are definitely missing a trick with the corner being built in the summer. Theres a chance to move a few people around from their usual season tickets and create a "singing section". Safe standing wont happen but at the very least cant we get a singing section going with TJ at the front and a few original songs. Everyone is blaming the teams performances but I remember it as a 2 way thing. If the fans provide an atmosphere then the team respond and show more fight. Remember Man City a few years ago after we went down to 10 men. The wall of sound we created helped the team immensely. Definitely agree with this even though I wouldn't want to be in it, maybe I'm part of the problem I'm just not that sort of football fan and despite all the bollox about JCL's I've been there and been exactly the same for decades. If you want to get these things going you need like minded individuals to be able to congregate in an area like they could on the old Boothen end. Its no use turning your back on the pitch and trying to get me singing because I'll just tell you to fuck off and get out of my face.
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Post by pyrus on Mar 6, 2017 9:26:35 GMT
I don't think we played the ball long on Saturday irrespective of who was up front, the odd floated ball from Shawcross when they pressed us but you'll always get that. In fact the crowd we're groaning round by me that we were overplaying it at the back (some Stoke fans still like to see us "get rid" at every opportunity) Its arguable despite the win that Saturday was an even bigger mess. Continuation of the misuse of Joe Allen and Whelan trying to do stuff that is totally alien to him. It worked against a surprisingly poor side(I expected them to lack ambition but be far more solid) I wouldn't be keen to see it as any sort of blueprint for success. I'm incredulous. Whelan, by most people's estimation had his best game in ages. He laid on a brilliant ball for the assist on the first goal. His corners were a bit hit and miss, but I think we scored the second from a corner. Ramadan was wonderful to watch - fast, attacking, creative. Arnautovic was the same. Allen was given the official MoM award. Cameron was the glue that held it together. It is not relevant to criticise Stoke for the mess that Boro were, you play whatever shows up. By rights we should have scored four or five. Their keeper kept it down and our forwards maybe could have been more clinical, but I have no idea how you can feel negative about that performance.
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 9:37:56 GMT
Its arguable despite the win that Saturday was an even bigger mess. Continuation of the misuse of Joe Allen and Whelan trying to do stuff that is totally alien to him. It worked against a surprisingly poor side(I expected them to lack ambition but be far more solid) I wouldn't be keen to see it as any sort of blueprint for success. I'm incredulous. Whelan, by most people's estimation had his best game in ages. He laid on a brilliant ball for the assist on the first goal. His corners were a bit hit and miss, but I think we scored the second from a corner. Ramadan was wonderful to watch - fast, attacking, creative. Arnautovic was the same. Allen was given the official MoM award. Cameron was the glue that held it together. It is not relevant to criticise Stoke for the mess that Boro were, you play whatever shows up. By rights we should have scored four or five. Their keeper kept it down and our forwards maybe could have been more clinical, but I have no idea how you can feel negative about that performance. Whelan got a couple of things right but generally is not suited to a role getting upfield more he's just not good enough with the ball. Joe Allen's MoM award was met by bemusement, amusement and derision in equal measure by most supporters around us. Its not negativity without reason or optimism, you are obviously just swayed far more by a result against a poor side than me. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it more than watching Charlie banging endless high balls up to Crouch but for me it still left a lot to be desired.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 10:20:21 GMT
I really miss the days of being dicked by Bristol Rovers and Wigan. They were fun times. I miss the days of us putting 4 past Leicester, Leeds and Ipswich, 5 past Norwich etc. Or 4 past Fulham and Villa. Or is that not part of this game?
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Mar 6, 2017 11:44:41 GMT
Its arguable despite the win that Saturday was an even bigger mess. Continuation of the misuse of Joe Allen and Whelan trying to do stuff that is totally alien to him. It worked against a surprisingly poor side(I expected them to lack ambition but be far more solid) I wouldn't be keen to see it as any sort of blueprint for success. I'm incredulous. Whelan, by most people's estimation had his best game in ages. He laid on a brilliant ball for the assist on the first goal. His corners were a bit hit and miss, but I think we scored the second from a corner. Ramadan was wonderful to watch - fast, attacking, creative. Arnautovic was the same. Allen was given the official MoM award. Cameron was the glue that held it together. It is not relevant to criticise Stoke for the mess that Boro were, you play whatever shows up. By rights we should have scored four or five. Their keeper kept it down and our forwards maybe could have been more clinical, but I have no idea how you can feel negative about that performance. This all the way. I am not the most optimistic of blokes (!) but yesterday was a big step in the right direction for me. Ramadan and Arnie were on fire and it was great to see Cameron back where he belongs and making a difference. Just hope Bruno is ok and yes an 8th to 10th finish plus a cup run every season is good enough for me. Good to see the lads closing down so well and fighting right through to the final whistle on Saturday. Suspect if Ramadan had finished that chance where he turned their defence inside out there would be less cause for complaint. I never get bored at the game, yes frustrated but never bored.
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Post by cooper67 on Mar 6, 2017 11:59:56 GMT
I think sometimes it is the safety first approach in some games that bores us.Yesterday/Burnley and Leicester to a certain extent we are 2-0 at half time and then slow the game down thinking job done-it would be nice every now and then to go for a team in the 2nd half. We could have had 2-3 second half...4-0 would have flattered them But we didn't though did we? And that unfortunately is the usual case.
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 12:05:36 GMT
I really miss the days of being dicked by Bristol Rovers and Wigan. They were fun times. I miss the days of us putting 4 past Leicester, Leeds and Ipswich, 5 past Norwich etc. Or 4 past Fulham and Villa. Or is that not part of this game? Not any more apparently you do just enough, no more, fuck the fans!
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Mar 6, 2017 12:19:02 GMT
After sitting through yesterdays comfortable 2-0 win I walked back home thinking I had very little to be excited about. The atmosphere was probably the worst I've witnessed since before our promotion year, even the goal celebrations were a half hearted muted affair. At the moment I'm just finding it very difficult to get excited about watching the Stoke, I'm always eager for the next match to come along and still feel that buzz as I'm making my way to the ground but then it all seems to fizzle out after watching what's on display, the baffling team and squad selections the slow pass it sideways football, the lack of desire and passion on display which starts from the dug out and spreads itself onto the pitch then into to the crowd, slowly grinding out the last bit of pre-match excitement I had. And it doesn't seem to be improving, I'm not yet contemplating not renewing my ST but something has to change - doesn't it? I'm so grateful we are where we are and for Stoke to remain a premiership side is paramount so what's it all come down to? Is it that my expectations are too high? Have we as a club stagnated in our endeavour to maintain our premiership status? Is it complacency or is it something else? With the talent Stoke have at their disposal I should be coming away from a comfortable home win full of adrenalin filled excitement even when we lose and the obvious disappointment that goes with it knowing we've got a great squad of talented international stars but we put up a good fight, this just isn't the case though. Gouranga. I'll swap places with you right now. I know what you mean though, I mentioned it on a thread on here a few weeks ago and got ripped to bits. I'd hate to finish 7th-10th every season. No threat of relegation or chance of Europe. Winning games is entertaining but there has to be a purpose beyond just being an also ran I have to disagree safc, I never take mid table safety for granted and football is a fickle mistress as you will know. I must be getting soft in my old age, but I caught a glimpse of your game against Citeh, very sad to see so many empty seats at the end.
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Post by Gods on Mar 6, 2017 12:38:22 GMT
Anyone who consumes their football like a wine connoisseur testing fine wines is always heading for a lifetime of disappointment I'm afraid.
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 14:01:11 GMT
Anyone who consumes their football like a wine connoisseur testing fine wines is always heading for a lifetime of disappointment I'm afraid. Sounds like somebody who doesn't like football very much.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Mar 6, 2017 14:16:49 GMT
We could have had 2-3 second half...4-0 would have flattered them But we didn't though did we? And that unfortunately is the usual case. But you were deriding the safety first approach? We could have won 4/5-0, thats not exactly safety first is it?
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 14:33:42 GMT
But we didn't though did we? And that unfortunately is the usual case. But you were deriding the safety first approach? We could have won 4/5-0, thats not exactly safety first is it? I don't think there is much doubt we were in game management mode second half, doesn't mean you will never score just that you aren't playing full out.
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Post by safcforever on Mar 6, 2017 16:17:33 GMT
I'll swap places with you right now. I know what you mean though, I mentioned it on a thread on here a few weeks ago and got ripped to bits. I'd hate to finish 7th-10th every season. No threat of relegation or chance of Europe. Winning games is entertaining but there has to be a purpose beyond just being an also ran I have to disagree safc, I never take mid table safety for granted and football is a fickle mistress as you will know. I must be getting soft in my old age, but I caught a glimpse of your game against Citeh, very sad to see so many empty seats at the end. It's gonna get worse, but not just for Sunderland. I hate seeing soccer Saturday when they go to grounds like Wigan, Bolton and Reading (there's loads more) and all you can see is seats. The gap in the premier league is getting worse every season (ignoring Leicester's freak show) there might as well be 2 different leagues
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Post by pez75 on Mar 6, 2017 16:20:52 GMT
I have to disagree safc, I never take mid table safety for granted and football is a fickle mistress as you will know. I must be getting soft in my old age, but I caught a glimpse of your game against Citeh, very sad to see so many empty seats at the end. It's gonna get worse, but not just for Sunderland. I hate seeing soccer Saturday when they go to grounds like Wigan, Bolton and Reading (there's loads more) and all you can see is seats. The gap in the premier league is getting worse every season (ignoring Leicester's freak show) there might as well be 2 different leagues Well in that case we are at the bottom end of the very top division - everything to play for!
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Mar 6, 2017 16:54:31 GMT
I have to disagree safc, I never take mid table safety for granted and football is a fickle mistress as you will know. I must be getting soft in my old age, but I caught a glimpse of your game against Citeh, very sad to see so many empty seats at the end. It's gonna get worse, but not just for Sunderland. I hate seeing soccer Saturday when they go to grounds like Wigan, Bolton and Reading (there's loads more) and all you can see is seats. The gap in the premier league is getting worse every season (ignoring Leicester's freak show) there might as well be 2 different leagues Yes often think that when I see the highlights of Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, Fulham games etc etc. Any sport at the highest level requires oodles of cash and the top six in the Prem are almost untouchable now (like you say other than Leicester who are just plain weird, I have given up trying to figure out what the hell is going on there). Good luck for the rest of the season.
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Post by mcf on Mar 6, 2017 17:33:24 GMT
I reckon it is all 3 of those things.
I feel bad for saying this because it's much easier for me to make the effort to watch all the games when I only have to wake up before 9am and switch the TV on to watch NBC but....
When I came home at Xmas and watched us play at home v Watford I was pretty surprised by the reaction to a home win. I know I shouldn't have been because the lack of atmosphere comes through every week but we do seem to have an air of arrogance where we think we should be just swatting away certain teams while playing like Barca Madrid - it just doesn't work that way.
It was pretty sad to see tbh and I don't think there is an easy answer. I remember watching Bolton when we first arrived and they seemed pretty bored with the whole thing too as they were in their 6/7th season. I just hope we don't play a part in our own downfall at some point.
I think it's been a pretty good season again on the whole but you don't get that sense from the majority of the fans.
I thought we played really well on Saturday as well where we won with the minimal of fuss and never looked like losing the game - what more could you want!?
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 18:23:36 GMT
You actually came and watched the Watford game and were surprised it received a muted response. Did you fail to notice that as a game of football it was fucking awful.
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Post by mcf on Mar 6, 2017 18:46:17 GMT
You actually came and watched the Watford game and were surprised it received a muted response. Did you fail to notice that as a game of football it was fucking awful. It wasn't that bad. Besides, I don't expect to be 'entertained' every time I turn up. I'm more bothered with simply winning the games of football that we should be winning.
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 18:58:17 GMT
You actually came and watched the Watford game and were surprised it received a muted response. Did you fail to notice that as a game of football it was fucking awful. It wasn't that bad. Besides, I don't expect to be 'entertained' every time I turn up. I'm more bothered with simply winning the games of football that we should be winning. I don't understand why people go to football matches if they don't expect them to be entertaining, you could just watch the scores on bbc.co.uk. The game should be enjoyable to both watch and play otherwise whats the point of it? I didn't think Saturday was great but it was better than we have been recently there were aspects of the game I really enjoyed but our standard of play is still miles behind where we were about 15 months ago.
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Post by mcf on Mar 6, 2017 19:43:54 GMT
It wasn't that bad. Besides, I don't expect to be 'entertained' every time I turn up. I'm more bothered with simply winning the games of football that we should be winning. I don't understand why people go to football matches if they don't expect them to be entertaining, you could just watch the scores on bbc.co.uk. The game should be enjoyable to both watch and play otherwise whats the point of it? I didn't think Saturday was great but it was better than we have been recently there were aspects of the game I really enjoyed but our standard of play is still miles behind where we were about 15 months ago. I enjoy watching Stoke win - it's far more important to me than being entertained for 90 minutes. The satisfaction of winning can last for days after. Whether it's playing or watching anything I just want to win first and foremost.
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 19:50:22 GMT
I don't understand why people go to football matches if they don't expect them to be entertaining, you could just watch the scores on bbc.co.uk. The game should be enjoyable to both watch and play otherwise whats the point of it? I didn't think Saturday was great but it was better than we have been recently there were aspects of the game I really enjoyed but our standard of play is still miles behind where we were about 15 months ago. I enjoy watching Stoke win - it's far more important to me than being entertained for 90 minutes. The satisfaction of winning can last for days after. Whether it's playing or watching anything I just want to win first and foremost. I still draw satisfaction from our play those 15 months ago far more so than the likes of the Watford, Crystal Palace Burnley wins that didn't even feel very satisfying leaving the stadium more like we won but sort of feeling.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 19:55:22 GMT
I don't understand why people go to football matches if they don't expect them to be entertaining, you could just watch the scores on bbc.co.uk. The game should be enjoyable to both watch and play otherwise whats the point of it? I didn't think Saturday was great but it was better than we have been recently there were aspects of the game I really enjoyed but our standard of play is still miles behind where we were about 15 months ago. I enjoy watching Stoke win - it's far more important to me than being entertained for 90 minutes. The satisfaction of winning can last for days after. Whether it's playing or watching anything I just want to win first and foremost. I go in the hope that: 1) we'll win 2) we'll look like we have some potential to push on I haven't felt 2) since halfway through the Leicester game, I think that's one reason its been such a strange season for opinion.
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 6, 2017 19:57:12 GMT
I enjoy watching Stoke win - it's far more important to me than being entertained for 90 minutes. The satisfaction of winning can last for days after. Whether it's playing or watching anything I just want to win first and foremost. I go in the hope that: 1) we'll win 2) we'll look like we have some potential to push on I haven't felt 2) since halfway through the Leicester game, I think that's one reason its been such a strange season for opinion. Well you need to get your student arse out of bed in the first place
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Mar 6, 2017 22:09:18 GMT
It wasn't that bad. Besides, I don't expect to be 'entertained' every time I turn up. I'm more bothered with simply winning the games of football that we should be winning. I don't understand why people go to football matches if they don't expect them to be entertaining, you could just watch the scores on bbc.co.uk. The game should be enjoyable to both watch and play otherwise whats the point of it? I didn't think Saturday was great but it was better than we have been recently there were aspects of the game I really enjoyed but our standard of play is still miles behind where we were about 15 months ago. I go first and foremost to support my team and hopefully see them win. Even if we win dirty I come away happy, totally agree with mcf on this one. Walking away from the Brit knowing that we are looking up the table and not down for a change sets me up for a good weekend.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Mar 6, 2017 22:48:23 GMT
It's a funny business now football,too much money and players and managers who don't live in the real world .
We have had a funny year , signings not been great and a poor start even by our standards so its nice to be safe , a couple of decent players with energy and pace will make a difference on the field , off it not so sure the passion seems to have faded in most fans
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