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Post by pyrus on Mar 5, 2017 18:46:49 GMT
After sitting through yesterdays comfortable 2-0 win I walked back home thinking I had very little to be excited about. The atmosphere was probably the worst I've witnessed since before our promotion year, even the goal celebrations were a half hearted muted affair. At the moment I'm just finding it very difficult to get excited about watching the Stoke, I'm always eager for the next match to come along and still feel that buzz as I'm making my way to the ground but then it all seems to fizzle out after watching what's on display, the baffling team and squad selections the slow pass it sideways football, the lack of desire and passion on display which starts from the dug out and spreads itself onto the pitch then into to the crowd, slowly grinding out the last bit of pre-match excitement I had. And it doesn't seem to be improving, I'm not yet contemplating not renewing my ST but something has to change - doesn't it? I'm so grateful we are where we are and for Stoke to remain a premiership side is paramount so what's it all come down to? Is it that my expectations are too high? Have we as a club stagnated in our endeavour to maintain our premiership status? Is it complacency or is it something else? With the talent Stoke have at their disposal I should be coming away from a comfortable home win full of adrenalin filled excitement even when we lose and the obvious disappointment that goes with it knowing we've got a great squad of talented international stars but we put up a good fight, this just isn't the case though. Gouranga. I was pretty entertained yesterday - and I have really enjoyed watching Stoke on all but one occasion when I have been this season. I agree with you about the crowd, but that has been getting more muted every consecutive year since we have been promoted. It is fairly typical, I have a mate who is a Baggie. He tells me that years ago they had this great reputation for all weather enthusiastic and loud support and year after year it got quieter until they became a bunch who just complain most of the time, stopping only to cheer goals and chant when they get a corner. That's pretty much what we are now. Stoke is not the loudest and best support in the land any more - it was Palace for a while, it's someone else now, but not Stoke and it hasn't been for a while. There are those who suggest that it is what happens on the field that determines how loud we are. But that doesn't stack up, we used to blow the roof off and get behind the shite that Pulis dished up. At that stage, we were just enjoying being in the Prem and relishing the underdog status. These days, the football is far better, the results are better as well. The stuff that Arnie, Sobhi, Allen and Shaq particularly produce is so much better than what we got from Whitehead, Delap, Lawrence and so on (much I love those guys). I think it is more likely that we have all just become complacement and have developed a sense of entitlement. It's just so much easier to blame the manager, the team, and everyone else when, in all likelihood, we are the issue.
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Post by MuddyWoody on Mar 5, 2017 18:54:01 GMT
It's all just a bit shit isn't it? I thought we were poor yesterday but there was a few individual performances that made up for that. We've got to find a way of playing soon that isn't just twatting it to Crouch because that is all we do. There's a general malaise about the place at the minute. That needs to change. I would love to see us become more fit and athletic , even borough seemed in better condition than us yesterday . It begs the question with Hughes training methods is Berahino ever going to actually get "fit" at Stoke or is he in danger of just getting fatter????
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Post by deliasmith on Mar 5, 2017 18:56:39 GMT
Boredom is a consequence of our poor level of performance at home.
For a club like Stoke, home form is key. Given that we're not, it seems, ever going to win a trophy, all that makes a season enjoyable is the taking of a few scalps of our "betters", particularly Arsenal, of course. And we can really only expect a win against any of the top six at home. This manager doesn't get this: we're better away from home against poor teams than we were, but we're a pushover at the 365 for any good opponent. Our defence can't cope with fast-breaking, skillful forwards, particularly when the midfield cover is slogging back from the opposition half after an attack has broken down.
On a bigger question, the trouble with us, with Stoke City, is a lack of achievement. People often say or write on here that the club lacks ambition, but I don't think this is true: we've paid out a lot of money to get good, or at least expensive, players; we're generous with wages and retaining players to maintain a big squad of experienced professionals. An honest appraisal would have to concede that we are the most ambitious club outside the top five or six. It's a culture of success that we lack. Leicester have never been giants of the game, but they did have a modest record of winning trophies before the Ranieri miracle. In the past 45 years just about EVERY big team (i.e. bar the Port Vales and Walsalls) in this region has won an important national trophy; even perennial failures like Birmingham have something.
I think the trouble is at board level. We're too nice just now; previously we've been too mean, too stupid, whatever.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 5, 2017 19:00:41 GMT
After sitting through yesterdays comfortable 2-0 win I walked back home thinking I had very little to be excited about. The atmosphere was probably the worst I've witnessed since before our promotion year, even the goal celebrations were a half hearted muted affair. At the moment I'm just finding it very difficult to get excited about watching the Stoke, I'm always eager for the next match to come along and still feel that buzz as I'm making my way to the ground but then it all seems to fizzle out after watching what's on display, the baffling team and squad selections the slow pass it sideways football, the lack of desire and passion on display which starts from the dug out and spreads itself onto the pitch then into to the crowd, slowly grinding out the last bit of pre-match excitement I had. And it doesn't seem to be improving, I'm not yet contemplating not renewing my ST but something has to change - doesn't it? I'm so grateful we are where we are and for Stoke to remain a premiership side is paramount so what's it all come down to? Is it that my expectations are too high? Have we as a club stagnated in our endeavour to maintain our premiership status? Is it complacency or is it something else? With the talent Stoke have at their disposal I should be coming away from a comfortable home win full of adrenalin filled excitement even when we lose and the obvious disappointment that goes with it knowing we've got a great squad of talented international stars but we put up a good fight, this just isn't the case though. Gouranga. On your point about the atmosphere, isn't that the same throughout pretty much the entire Premier League? Even at the big boys, Old Trafford, Anfield, Stamford Bridge, Emirates, Ethiad, Goodison you can hear a pin drop save for the away fans. The only home fans I can think of that generate any atmosphere are Spurs and Palace. Compared to Germany and Italy the atmosphere generally in top flight English football is dreadful, I'm not really sure why. Because people are scared to drop the prawns out of their sandwiches
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Post by nutterpotter on Mar 5, 2017 19:09:44 GMT
Could this be one of the reasons?
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Post by Alvechurch Assassin on Mar 5, 2017 19:13:43 GMT
Rarely any sustained pressure on the opposing goal. Something the Macari teams were great at. This usually builds excitement amongst the fans.
8 seasons of mid table finishes will breed complacency amongst the support.
Crunching tackles are outlawed, so the aggression of football has been taken away. Something us Stokies used to enjoy more than most!
New, expensive players sitting on the bench. Old, Pulis stalwarts still getting game time.
Let's face it, the manager is a bit boring.
Just a few reasons.
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Post by chuckrocky on Mar 5, 2017 19:23:21 GMT
We need a good old fashioned relegation scrap. Anything is better than 9th place boring nogger. OS. We've already shown during Hughes' first two seasons in charge that we can finish ninth and play entertaining and attractive football. The football over the last twelve months has been garbage, why shouldn't people demand something a bit more entertaining?
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Post by march4 on Mar 5, 2017 19:39:20 GMT
We need a good old fashioned relegation scrap. Anything is better than 9th place boring nogger. OS. We've already shown during Hughes' first two seasons in charge that we can finish ninth and play entertaining and attractive football. The football over the last twelve months has been garbage, why shouldn't people demand something a bit more entertaining? I still think it is the lack of cup football that is boring us all silly.
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Post by Parkhall Wanderer on Mar 5, 2017 19:45:20 GMT
In my garage I have the programmes from all the games I've been to(and that's quite a few home and away since 1968) There's one box from the mid seventies, a box from the holocaust season and a couple of boxes of what followed up until 2007.
When I think god ain't we crap or boring I only have to look at those boxes and the dates to remind how lucky we are to be where we are. If the roof blew off the main stand tomorrow at least we wouldn't be forced to sell our good players to have to rebuild it would we?
Its to a strange feeling at times such as spells during the second half yesterday when yes you think go on make something happen. In reality we could have won four or five nil though and I don't think we would have been bored then would we?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 19:49:24 GMT
Boredom is a consequence of our poor level of performance at home. For a club like Stoke, home form is key. Given that we're not, it seems, ever going to win a trophy, all that makes a season enjoyable is the taking of a few scalps of our "betters", particularly Arsenal, of course. And we can really only expect a win against any of the top six at home. This manager doesn't get this: we're better away from home against poor teams than we were, but we're a pushover at the 365 for any good opponent. Our defence can't cope with fast-breaking, skillful forwards, particularly when the midfield cover is slogging back from the opposition half after an attack has broken down. On a bigger question, the trouble with us, with Stoke City, is a lack of achievement. People often say or write on here that the club lacks ambition, but I don't think this is true: we've paid out a lot of money to get good, or at least expensive, players; we're generous with wages and retaining players to maintain a big squad of experienced professionals. An honest appraisal would have to concede that we are the most ambitious club outside the top five or six. It's a culture of success that we lack. Leicester have never been giants of the game, but they did have a modest record of winning trophies before the Ranieri miracle. In the past 45 years just about EVERY big team (i.e. bar the Port Vales and Walsalls) in this region has won an important national trophy; even perennial failures like Birmingham have something. I think the trouble is at board level. We're too nice just now; previously we've been too mean, too stupid, whatever. W6 D5 L3 is a good home record though?? We've lost 1 out of the last 12.....
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Post by bmstoke on Mar 5, 2017 20:18:12 GMT
I really miss the days of being dicked by Bristol Rovers and Wigan.
They were fun times.
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Post by cooper67 on Mar 5, 2017 22:08:46 GMT
In my garage I have the programmes from all the games I've been to(and that's quite a few home and away since 1968) There's one box from the mid seventies, a box from the holocaust season and a couple of boxes of what followed up until 2007. When I think god ain't we crap or boring I only have to look at those boxes and the dates to remind how lucky we are to be where we are. If the roof blew off the main stand tomorrow at least we wouldn't be forced to sell our good players to have to rebuild it would we? Its to a strange feeling at times such as spells during the second half yesterday when yes you think go on make something happen. In reality we could have won four or five nil though and I don't think we would have been bored then would we? I think sometimes it is the safety first approach in some games that bores us.Yesterday/Burnley and Leicester to a certain extent we are 2-0 at half time and then slow the game down thinking job done-it would be nice every now and then to go for a team in the 2nd half.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 5, 2017 22:24:43 GMT
The lack of a cup run and the fact we never beat any of the big teams anymore doesn't help. Plus it would be nice to give somebody a thrashing. Yesterday should have been more than 2-0 though, at least we didn't go into our shell second half.
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Post by deliasmith on Mar 5, 2017 22:27:49 GMT
In our first year in the Prem we won 10 and lost 4 at home - we shan't match that this season. We beat Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, drew with Liverpool. Man United; this season ...
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 5, 2017 22:28:06 GMT
Could this be one of the reasons? Was thinking earlier that in a way this season has been pretty unspectacular and going pretty much with form. We have beaten the teams you would expect to beat( no mean feat as think about the struggles we've had at home in previous years...Burnley, Watford for example) but we have had few high profile scalps(arguably Man U away point aside). Just think that aside from the dodgy early start and getting walloped by the big teams, it's all well a little flat. If we could retain the current position of beating those we should and get the odd high profile win then things will feel very different.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 1:10:24 GMT
I think this season we just haven't seemed like we've got the potential to push on at any point. Last season's wins against City/united/Chelsea and Liverpool in the cup felt like we were on the cusp of something really special. When your only wins are uninspiring (bar 2/3 of them) and against lower teams that you 'should' be beating, it's nowhere near as exciting as beating a top side or a rival in the table. The cup doesn't help. Personally, getting rid of Bojan when we struggle to keep the ball and create made it seem like we were resigned to ignoring the midfield in terms of creativity. Means almost all of our attacks end up being played straight out wide or 500 feet in the air. Shaq's injuries have had a big affect on our form aswell, we're a different side with two proper wingers on the pitch rather than just Arnie trying to beat 8 men on his own. Thank god Ramadan looks like a player.
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Post by safcforever on Mar 6, 2017 1:13:24 GMT
After sitting through yesterdays comfortable 2-0 win I walked back home thinking I had very little to be excited about. The atmosphere was probably the worst I've witnessed since before our promotion year, even the goal celebrations were a half hearted muted affair. At the moment I'm just finding it very difficult to get excited about watching the Stoke, I'm always eager for the next match to come along and still feel that buzz as I'm making my way to the ground but then it all seems to fizzle out after watching what's on display, the baffling team and squad selections the slow pass it sideways football, the lack of desire and passion on display which starts from the dug out and spreads itself onto the pitch then into to the crowd, slowly grinding out the last bit of pre-match excitement I had. And it doesn't seem to be improving, I'm not yet contemplating not renewing my ST but something has to change - doesn't it? I'm so grateful we are where we are and for Stoke to remain a premiership side is paramount so what's it all come down to? Is it that my expectations are too high? Have we as a club stagnated in our endeavour to maintain our premiership status? Is it complacency or is it something else? With the talent Stoke have at their disposal I should be coming away from a comfortable home win full of adrenalin filled excitement even when we lose and the obvious disappointment that goes with it knowing we've got a great squad of talented international stars but we put up a good fight, this just isn't the case though. Gouranga. I'll swap places with you right now. I know what you mean though, I mentioned it on a thread on here a few weeks ago and got ripped to bits. I'd hate to finish 7th-10th every season. No threat of relegation or chance of Europe. Winning games is entertaining but there has to be a purpose beyond just being an also ran
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Post by kustokie on Mar 6, 2017 2:05:59 GMT
We are in this spot because of the very poor start to the season, which left us in a big hole. That, combined with the fact we only got 1 point out of a maximum 6 points from the dreaded West Brom. If we'd earned. 4 points against WB instead of 1, we'd be 1 point ahead of them instead of 5 points behind and only 5 points behind Everton instead of 9. Here's the question: is Hughes the right man to negotiate the Summer transfer market and get them prepared to hit the ground running at the start of next season. History would suggest he is not. Two Summers and two winter breaks in a row of been a complete waste of time (I know we won two games in a row against Villa and Newcastle, when we came back from last season's winter. However, we played poorly in those two games*, and both the opposing teams were relegated).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 2:38:56 GMT
We are in this spot because of the very poor start to the season, which left us in a big hole. That, combined with the fact we only got 1 point out of a maximum 6 points from the dreaded West Brom. If we'd earned. 4 points against WB instead of 1, we'd be 1 point ahead of them instead of 5 points behind and only 5 points behind Everton instead of 9. Here's the question: is Hughes the right man to negotiate the Summer transfer market and get them prepared to hit the ground running at the start of next season. History would suggest he is not. Two Summers and two winter breaks in a row of been a complete waste of time (I know we won two games in a row against Villa and Newcastle, when we came back from last season's winter. However, we played poorly in those two games*, and both the opposing teams were relegated). Why what spot are we in this season?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 2:47:35 GMT
In our first year in the Prem we won 10 and lost 4 at home - we shan't match that this season. We beat Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, drew with Liverpool. Man United; this season ... And the season after we won only 7. So what's the point your making?
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Post by kustokie on Mar 6, 2017 3:32:02 GMT
We are in this spot because of the very poor start to the season, which left us in a big hole. That, combined with the fact we only got 1 point out of a maximum 6 points from the dreaded West Brom. If we'd earned. 4 points against WB instead of 1, we'd be 1 point ahead of them instead of 5 points behind and only 5 points behind Everton instead of 9. Here's the question: is Hughes the right man to negotiate the Summer transfer market and get them prepared to hit the ground running at the start of next season. History would suggest he is not. Two Summers and two winter breaks in a row of been a complete waste of time (I know we won two games in a row against Villa and Newcastle, when we came back from last season's winter. However, we played poorly in those two games*, and both the opposing teams were relegated). Why what spot are we in this season? We are 9th, when we could be 8th with a reasonable chance of catching Everton, which is an improvement on last season. Now we have a only a slim chance of catching WB and virtually no chance of catching Everton. And we went out of both cups at the first attempt. And we are playing some pretty dreary football. Other than that, we're fine. I am looking for year-on-year improvement.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 6:47:03 GMT
Why what spot are we in this season? We are 9th, when we could be 8th with a reasonable chance of catching Everton, which is an improvement on last season. Now we have a only a slim chance of catching WB and virtually no chance of catching Everton. And we went out of both cups at the first attempt. And we are playing some pretty dreary football. Other than that, we're fine. I am looking for year-on-year improvement. We have more than a slim chance of catching West Brom, we didn't go out of both cups at the first attempt and I disagree about the dreary football.....
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 7:21:12 GMT
We are 9th, when we could be 8th with a reasonable chance of catching Everton, which is an improvement on last season. Now we have a only a slim chance of catching WB and virtually no chance of catching Everton. And we went out of both cups at the first attempt. And we are playing some pretty dreary football. Other than that, we're fine. I am looking for year-on-year improvement. We have more than a slim chance of catching West Brom, we didn't go out of both cups at the first attempt and I disagree about the dreary football..... You're quite entitled to disagree that the football is dreary but surely you can see that many fans feel that way. We've been poor for a sustained period of over a year but I think whats really hammered home the discontent for many is the reintroduction of a style we thought we'd seen the back of since Crouch has been back as our 1st choice striker. Personally I hate it.
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Post by wuzza on Mar 6, 2017 8:33:39 GMT
We have more than a slim chance of catching West Brom, we didn't go out of both cups at the first attempt and I disagree about the dreary football..... You're quite entitled to disagree that the football is dreary but surely you can see that many fans feel that way. We've been poor for a sustained period of over a year but I think whats really hammered home the discontent for many is the reintroduction of a style we thought we'd seen the back of since Crouch has been back as our 1st choice striker. Personally I hate it. The 'dreary' home football arrived well before the return of Crouchie. 25 passes where one will do drives most people to distraction just as much as an aimless punt upfield (and it drives them there more slowly which is even worse!). Whatevever the style , whoever the personnel it's all about a bit of dynamism and we don't produce that on a regular basis unfortunately. However things can and will get better on that front .....if we can keep some players fit just for once.
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Post by fraybentos on Mar 6, 2017 8:53:52 GMT
Same old players and hughes not playing bony imbula Berahino Bojan ect has made it become very stale.
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 8:57:15 GMT
You're quite entitled to disagree that the football is dreary but surely you can see that many fans feel that way. We've been poor for a sustained period of over a year but I think whats really hammered home the discontent for many is the reintroduction of a style we thought we'd seen the back of since Crouch has been back as our 1st choice striker. Personally I hate it. The 'dreary' home football arrived well before the return of Crouchie. 25 passes where one will do drives most people to distraction just as much as an aimless punt upfield (and it drives them there more slowly which is even worse!). Whatevever the style , whoever the personnel it's all about a bit of dynamism and we don't produce that on a regular basis unfortunately. However things can and will get better on that front .....if we can keep some players fit just for once. I agree on all points. Personally I much prefer an intricate passing game but I totally agree we were not doing that well either. Our football has been hard work since that sublime purple patch around Christmas 2015. Trouble is the absolute highs of that purple patch leave the sub standard stuff so much harder to stomach.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Mar 6, 2017 9:06:53 GMT
In my garage I have the programmes from all the games I've been to(and that's quite a few home and away since 1968) There's one box from the mid seventies, a box from the holocaust season and a couple of boxes of what followed up until 2007. When I think god ain't we crap or boring I only have to look at those boxes and the dates to remind how lucky we are to be where we are. If the roof blew off the main stand tomorrow at least we wouldn't be forced to sell our good players to have to rebuild it would we? Its to a strange feeling at times such as spells during the second half yesterday when yes you think go on make something happen. In reality we could have won four or five nil though and I don't think we would have been bored then would we? I think sometimes it is the safety first approach in some games that bores us.Yesterday/Burnley and Leicester to a certain extent we are 2-0 at half time and then slow the game down thinking job done-it would be nice every now and then to go for a team in the 2nd half. We could have had 2-3 second half...4-0 would have flattered them
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 9:10:51 GMT
We have more than a slim chance of catching West Brom, we didn't go out of both cups at the first attempt and I disagree about the dreary football..... You're quite entitled to disagree that the football is dreary but surely you can see that many fans feel that way. We've been poor for a sustained period of over a year but I think whats really hammered home the discontent for many is the reintroduction of a style we thought we'd seen the back of since Crouch has been back as our 1st choice striker. Personally I hate it. I don't think we played the ball long on Saturday irrespective of who was up front, the odd floated ball from Shawcross when they pressed us but you'll always get that. In fact the crowd we're groaning round by me that we were overplaying it at the back (some Stoke fans still like to see us "get rid" at every opportunity)
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Mar 6, 2017 9:15:18 GMT
It is mid table complacency with literally nothing left to play for.
The club are definitely missing a trick with the corner being built in the summer. Theres a chance to move a few people around from their usual season tickets and create a "singing section". Safe standing wont happen but at the very least cant we get a singing section going with TJ at the front and a few original songs.
Everyone is blaming the teams performances but I remember it as a 2 way thing. If the fans provide an atmosphere then the team respond and show more fight. Remember Man City a few years ago after we went down to 10 men. The wall of sound we created helped the team immensely.
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Post by alster on Mar 6, 2017 9:15:52 GMT
You're quite entitled to disagree that the football is dreary but surely you can see that many fans feel that way. We've been poor for a sustained period of over a year but I think whats really hammered home the discontent for many is the reintroduction of a style we thought we'd seen the back of since Crouch has been back as our 1st choice striker. Personally I hate it. I don't think we played the ball long on Saturday irrespective of who was up front, the odd floated ball from Shawcross when they pressed us but you'll always get that. In fact the crowd we're groaning round by me that we were overplaying it at the back (some Stoke fans still like to see us "get rid" at every opportunity) Its arguable despite the win that Saturday was an even bigger mess. Continuation of the misuse of Joe Allen and Whelan trying to do stuff that is totally alien to him. It worked against a surprisingly poor side(I expected them to lack ambition but be far more solid) I wouldn't be keen to see it as any sort of blueprint for success.
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