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Post by spitthedog on Feb 12, 2017 23:26:32 GMT
how come nearly every MP who campaigned for it in the referendum, voted against it in the Parliament vote last week???
I thought our NHS was going to be brilliant when it starts coming through!
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Post by lordb on Feb 13, 2017 7:19:39 GMT
All campaigns feature politicians lying but this was a whopper.
Anyone who voted leave on the grounds that the NHS would reap huge dividends is going to be disappointed.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 13, 2017 7:41:53 GMT
Most people read the "£350m a week to the NHS" as a symbolistic banner meaning the money would be able to be used for our own country instead of being sent to Brussels. Even Farage and Boris stated this after the campaign and the remainers were trying to castigate Brexit for their claims. The bus banner actually read "We send the EU £350m a week. Let's fund the NHS instead". Hardly a promise to spend all of it in NHS is it?
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Post by slother on Feb 13, 2017 8:09:49 GMT
"We send the EU £350m a week. Let's fund the NHS instead". Hardly a promise to spend all of it in NHS is it? It isn't? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 8:10:15 GMT
I never read it as it was going to be spent on the NHS
But massive changes need to be made to the NHS because it's no good throwing money at it in it current state
It was never created to do what it's trying to do now......totally outdated and unworkable.
It's now so wasteful it's criminal and politicians constantly use it as a political football instead of getting together and coming up with a grown up plan for it to work.
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Post by desman2 on Feb 13, 2017 8:42:55 GMT
What surprised me was how they conveniently blamed Farage for it when the actual slogan appeared on the red bus used by Vote Leave who were a parliamentary group that Farage had nothing to do with.
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Post by lordb on Feb 13, 2017 12:40:53 GMT
Most people read the "£350m a week to the NHS" as a symbolistic banner meaning the money would be able to be used for our own country instead of being sent to Brussels. Even Farage and Boris stated this after the campaign and the remainers were trying to castigate Brexit for their claims. The bus banner actually read "We send the EU £350m a week. Let's fund the NHS instead". Hardly a promise to spend all of it in NHS is it? a promise,no it wasn't A very strong implication that millions people took on face value,most definitely. If you agree with Brexit,fine there are/we're arguments for & against however to brush off this absolute whopping lie (sorry 'ambiguous statement') as anything other than that is almost as embarrassing as the lie itself. Of course the other side lied too. In fact the referendum was an embarrassing spectacle all round. democracy at it's worst |
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Post by starkiller on Feb 13, 2017 12:51:02 GMT
What were the plans for a 'reformed EU' that remoaners promised?
How were they to go about reforming something that proved incapable of reform?
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Post by lowlands on Feb 13, 2017 13:32:11 GMT
I voted for Brexit and my analogy was simple and based on this:
If you own your own house you decide its destiny and what you would and will do to it too make improvements and who actually lives in it and you as the owner set the rules
If you rent the property you live in then the landlord decides everything for you and you as the tenant has absolutely no say
I felt quite a few years ago that the UK was no longer in our destiny and in fact some faceless civil servant in the EU was going to decide the fate of our country as we seemed to be renting
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 13:41:14 GMT
 I must be really stupid I thought it said let's fund the NHS instead. Oh it does! |
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Post by capto on Feb 13, 2017 13:46:57 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Feb 13, 2017 14:22:14 GMT
What were the plans for a 'reformed EU' that remoaners promised? How were they to go about reforming something that proved incapable of reform? Still moaning about a process that can't be negotiated until May triggers the break 6 weeks to go |
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Post by santy on Feb 13, 2017 14:32:24 GMT
One thing you can't do is really criticise Farage or Boris over this because while they both made use of it during the campaign for Brexit, it was never within their sphere of power/influence to make happen. It's something that could have happened, it's something that could still (but is unlikely to) happen.
If anything, the real concern would be that after the Brexit vote came in, they were actually able to make it happen.
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 13, 2017 14:41:38 GMT
how come nearly every MP who campaigned for it in the referendum, voted against it in the Parliament vote last week??? I thought our NHS was going to be brilliant when it starts coming through! What I would like to know, is why only 50+ MP's voted against invoking Article 50, when 48% of the nation voted remain |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 14:42:41 GMT
If you want to talk about lies.....look no further than this Lies lies lies |
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Post by cymap on Feb 13, 2017 15:03:58 GMT
The Mps voted against ANY amendments to a simple bill to stop Labour and the SNP using the system and courts after the bill is passed to delay so that is why that silly amendment didnt get passed.
If anyone actually thought that the whole total of our EU contributions was going on the NHS after firstly remainers arguing it wasnt 350m that we give to the eu for the first 2 weeks of the campaign and secondly Leave campaigners constantly saying that the Farm subsidies would be kept and science funding would be kept and would come out of that money then you are seriously deluded.
Finally how can the Leave campaign promise anything when they aren't/weren't the government, they were campaigners from all parties.It was a simple idea of using money that we give to the EU on things that the UK wants to use it on instead ....whatever the amount or whatever that maybe it will still be much more than if we stayed in the EU and paid it to Brussels.
When and if the government does not use the extra money to fund whatever then at least you have the right to vote that government out and vote in a party that promises it . Something you could NEVER do with those in Brussels.
Oh I almost forgot, If you watched the debates last week you would have seen Micheal Gove say in Parliament exactly what he said in the camapign that he expected at least £100m per week to go back into the NHS when we have left.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 13, 2017 15:24:01 GMT
The Mps voted against ANY amendments to a simple bill to stop Labour and the SNP using the system and courts after the bill is passed to delay so that is why that silly amendment didnt get passed. If anyone actually thought that the whole total of our EU contributions was going on the NHS after firstly remainers arguing it wasnt 350m that we give to the eu for the first 2 weeks of the campaign and secondly Leave campaigners constantly saying that the Farm subsidies would be kept and science funding would be kept and would come out of that money then you are seriously deluded. Finally how can the Leave campaign promise anything when they aren't/weren't the government, they were campaigners from all parties.It was a simple idea of using money that we give to the EU on things that the UK wants to use it on instead ....whatever the amount or whatever that maybe it will still be much more than if we stayed in the EU and paid it to Brussels. When and if the government does not use the extra money to fund whatever then at least you have the right to vote that government out and vote in a party that promises it . Something you could NEVER do with those in Brussels. Oh I almost forgot, If you watched the debates last week you would have seen Micheal Gove say in Parliament exactly what he said in the camapign that he expected at least £100m per week to go back into the NHS when we have left. But that is what Boris and others were saying, it would be spent on the NHS. And as YouGov and others have shown, this pledge, which is what it was, was one of the major factors driving many people to vote leave - see Faisal Islam's piece for Sky last week for example. The reality is that is was a lie primarily because the £350 million was always an over-estimate as the Advertising Standards Authority and others pointed out but secondly because we will end up spending more than we pay in to pTch up the damage to our competitiveness caused by leaving the EU. As Farage and Aaron Banks have both said, they are happy to be worse off but outside the EU. Banks said £4,300 per household was fine but he is a multi-millionaire. We will not get back any more control as the world is too intertwined to allow a small island in the Atlantic to go it alone successfully, we might reduce immigration slightly though only if we invest in robots to take on work, and we we will be worse off to some extent. More worrying the weakest parts of the country economically will suffer most. Stoke-on-Trent, not in the Northern Powerhouse or the Midlands Engine, bypassed by HS2 and with a static population is going to find it very tough. Dress it up how you like, talk about the global opportunities but the reality is very different. Yet again the rich and powerful have got their way. |
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Post by capto on Feb 13, 2017 15:45:50 GMT
If you want to talk about lies.....look no further than this Lies lies liesyep, it sure is Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 |
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Post by capto on Feb 13, 2017 15:50:25 GMT
The Mps voted against ANY amendments to a simple bill to stop Labour and the SNP using the system and courts after the bill is passed to delay so that is why that silly amendment didnt get passed. If anyone actually thought that the whole total of our EU contributions was going on the NHS after firstly remainers arguing it wasnt 350m that we give to the eu for the first 2 weeks of the campaign and secondly Leave campaigners constantly saying that the Farm subsidies would be kept and science funding would be kept and would come out of that money then you are seriously deluded. Finally how can the Leave campaign promise anything when they aren't/weren't the government, they were campaigners from all parties.It was a simple idea of using money that we give to the EU on things that the UK wants to use it on instead ....whatever the amount or whatever that maybe it will still be much more than if we stayed in the EU and paid it to Brussels. When and if the government does not use the extra money to fund whatever then at least you have the right to vote that government out and vote in a party that promises it . Something you could NEVER do with those in Brussels. Oh I almost forgot, If you watched the debates last week you would have seen Micheal Gove say in Parliament exactly what he said in the camapign that he expected at least £100m per week to go back into the NHS when we have left. you expect normal thinking people to believe what they say? you think Michael Gove is telling the truth? the eu is the great danger last year - last week it was the nhs - this week it's the prisons - anything to keep you scared so that you don't think for yourselves - just read the express & mail for your truths Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 15:56:05 GMT
If you want to talk about lies.....look no further than this Remainers Lies lies lies and more lies yep, it sure is Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 Thanks for agreeing |
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Post by cymap on Feb 13, 2017 16:02:38 GMT
The Mps voted against ANY amendments to a simple bill to stop Labour and the SNP using the system and courts after the bill is passed to delay so that is why that silly amendment didnt get passed. If anyone actually thought that the whole total of our EU contributions was going on the NHS after firstly remainers arguing it wasnt 350m that we give to the eu for the first 2 weeks of the campaign and secondly Leave campaigners constantly saying that the Farm subsidies would be kept and science funding would be kept and would come out of that money then you are seriously deluded. Finally how can the Leave campaign promise anything when they aren't/weren't the government, they were campaigners from all parties.It was a simple idea of using money that we give to the EU on things that the UK wants to use it on instead ....whatever the amount or whatever that maybe it will still be much more than if we stayed in the EU and paid it to Brussels. When and if the government does not use the extra money to fund whatever then at least you have the right to vote that government out and vote in a party that promises it . Something you could NEVER do with those in Brussels. Oh I almost forgot, If you watched the debates last week you would have seen Micheal Gove say in Parliament exactly what he said in the camapign that he expected at least £100m per week to go back into the NHS when we have left. you expect normal thinking people to believe what they say? you think Michael Gove is telling the truth? the eu is the great danger last year - last week it was the nhs - this week it's the prisons - anything to keep you scared so that you don't think for yourselves - just read the express & mail for your truths Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 As I said If they lie then you can vote THEM out. |
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 13, 2017 17:59:10 GMT
I never read it as it was going to be spent on the NHS But massive changes need to be made to the NHS because it's no good throwing money at it in it current state It was never created to do what it's trying to do now......totally outdated and unworkable. It's now so wasteful it's criminal and politicians constantly use it as a political football instead of getting together and coming up with a grown up plan for it to work. You don't read "We send the EU £350m a week Lets fund the NHS instead" as a promise to use that money for the NHS Are you one of these Alternative Fact people? |
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 13, 2017 18:03:14 GMT
If you want to talk about lies.....look no further than this Lies lies liesso this makes lying ok then? |
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 13, 2017 18:04:13 GMT
I must be really stupid I thought it said let's fund the NHS instead. Oh it does! You need a hard lesson in Alternative Facts |
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 13, 2017 18:06:16 GMT
you expect normal thinking people to believe what they say? you think Michael Gove is telling the truth? the eu is the great danger last year - last week it was the nhs - this week it's the prisons - anything to keep you scared so that you don't think for yourselves - just read the express & mail for your truths Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 As I said If they lie then you can vote THEM out. No I cant. I live in a constituency where my vote has absolutely no value. and in addition you have to now wait 5 years to do it. It a bit too late then isn't it? |
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Post by cymap on Feb 13, 2017 18:38:36 GMT
As I said If they lie then you can vote THEM out. No I cant. I live in a constituency where my vote has absolutely no value. and in addition you have to now wait 5 years to do it. It a bit too late then isn't it? Thats democracy , you are not the only persons who has views that count and that will see the lies,others can react aswell,perhaps try a tactical vote. Too Late for what? We are not talking about Brexit itself that has been settled with the largest act of democracy this country has ever seen, we are talking about promises that were being made about Brexit. If they don't fulfill those promises of cash then the country can vote them out if they disagree so much. Money promises were not the main reasons for Brexit so those things will happen aswell. 5 years is still shorter than you will wait to vote out EU imposed laws that time limit is NEVER |
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