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Post by trigger on Feb 7, 2017 19:51:44 GMT
Having spent the past few days in Manchester I've never realised the extent of the matter, you literally trip over them but.......Is throwing money the fix, I'm of the opinion it makes the problem worse, witnessed a young man handing a £5 to a rough sleeper, a severely disabled guy handing food out to a bunch, who at 9.30 were merrily drinking Jack Daniels and more than willing to take from the kind hearted sole and still packed food strewn over the pavements, obviously passer bys had fed them and it went to waste and their essential quilts thrown on the pavements, unwanted.
Now I know there's Social Housing for all but in this country you'll never starve but by giving them money it'll ultimately lead to purchasing drink/drugs, which leads to extra crime, stress on the NHS.
Obviously everyone has a story to tell though....
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Post by steve66 on Feb 7, 2017 20:48:44 GMT
I'm in my 60's and working my cods off still for near minimum wage and worked all my life, so apart from the genuine who can't work through illness or disability I think you can guess my attitude to the "street children"...
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Post by manmarking on Feb 7, 2017 22:21:20 GMT
Thatcher 1-0 The Working Class
There's a real dearth of compassion and empathy in Britain these days. To quote Nigel Farage, I want my country back.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 2:21:56 GMT
Thatcher 1-0 The Working Class There's a real dearth of compassion and empathy in Britain these days. To quote Nigel Farage, I want my country back. Hughes out... |
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Post by 3putts on Feb 8, 2017 7:30:17 GMT
everybody deserves a helping hand at some time in their lives. unfotrunatly some take this helping hand and throw it back into your face.dna everyone on the streets and give them all shelter and food those who decide they would rather spend all day drinking pack them off to jail where they can dry out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 7:39:54 GMT
Having spent the past few days in Manchester I've never realised the extent of the matter, you literally trip over them but.......Is throwing money the fix, I'm of the opinion it makes the problem worse, witnessed a young man handing a £5 to a rough sleeper, a severely disabled guy handing food out to a bunch, who at 9.30 were merrily drinking Jack Daniels and more than willing to take from the kind hearted sole and still packed food strewn over the pavements, obviously passer bys had fed them and it went to waste and their essential quilts thrown on the pavements, unwanted. Now I know there's Social Housing for all but in this country you'll never starve but by giving them money it'll ultimately lead to purchasing drink/drugs, which leads to extra crime, stress on the NHS. Obviously everyone has a story to tell though.... "Social housing for all" "You'll never starve" You're kidding right......? It's a very simple way of looking at a very complexed situation. I've said this on previous threads on the same subject I've helped out with my local church's homeless charity in Manchester City centre on many occasions, if you're not sympathetic or moved by some of the stories you hear them you haven't got a heart basically. Army veterans of 20 years, teenagers who have been through the care system or ran away from abusive parents/step parents, people just like me who happened to lose their job, fall into mortgage arrears, lost their home/marriage and ended up on the streets all within the space of 6 months, 15/16 year old kids prostituting themselves to survive. I would suggest if you can afford it but aren't comfortable with giving cash, next time it's cold and miserable and you're walking past a Greggs buy a £2 bacon sandwich/cup of tea, or take the spare winter coat you've hardly worn and give it to someone who looks like they could do with it. Will you occasionally give to a scammer? Yes probably but most of the time I would say not, and with regards the drink/drug issue if you were at your lowest ebb, living under a subway in fear of God knows what, no light at the end of the tunnel, possible undiagnosed mental issues could you say hand on heart you wouldn't do the same? I couldn't. There but for the grace of God and all that.... |
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Post by felonious on Feb 8, 2017 8:03:03 GMT
Having spent the past few days in Manchester I've never realised the extent of the matter, you literally trip over them but.......Is throwing money the fix, I'm of the opinion it makes the problem worse, witnessed a young man handing a £5 to a rough sleeper, a severely disabled guy handing food out to a bunch, who at 9.30 were merrily drinking Jack Daniels and more than willing to take from the kind hearted sole and still packed food strewn over the pavements, obviously passer bys had fed them and it went to waste and their essential quilts thrown on the pavements, unwanted. Now I know there's Social Housing for all but in this country you'll never starve but by giving them money it'll ultimately lead to purchasing drink/drugs, which leads to extra crime, stress on the NHS. Obviously everyone has a story to tell though.... "Social housing for all" "You'll never starve" You're kidding right......? It's a very simple way of looking at a very complexed situation. I've said this on previous threads on the same subject I've helped out with my local church's homeless charity in Manchester City centre on many occasions, if you're not sympathetic or moved by some of the stories you hear them you haven't got a heart basically. Army veterans of 20 years, teenagers who have been through the care system or ran away from abusive parents/step parents, people just like me who happened to lose their job, fall into mortgage arrears, lost their home/marriage and ended up on the streets all within the space of 6 months, 15/16 year old kids prostituting themselves to survive. I would suggest if you can afford and aren't comfortable with giving cash, next time it's cold and miserable and you're walking past a Greggs buy a £2 bacon sandwich/cup of tea, or take the spare winter coat you've hardly worn and give it to someone who looks like they could do with it. Will you occasionally give to a scammer? Yes probably but most of the time I would say not, and with regards the drink/drug issue if you were at your lowest ebb, living under a subway in fear of God knows what, no light at the end of the tunnel, possible undiagnosed mental issues could you say hand on heart you wouldn't do the same? I couldn't. There but for the grace of God and all that.... Very nicely put. |
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Post by flea79 on Feb 8, 2017 9:48:08 GMT
i once sat outside my ex girls place of work in Cambridge waiting for her to finish work on a Friday evening, i was sat on the floor outside her office and noticed that people would do anything but look at me even though i was on my phone etc, a cyclist even aimed a kick at me and people cross over
money is not the answer as it fuels further drug usage and drink dependency but something as simple as acknowledging that they are there and human too might just give them a lift
then my mate once gave one some change and put it in the cup in front of him, it wasn't a collecting cup it was the poor sods cup of coffee, it cost him a costa
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 10:19:50 GMT
When one ask me if I have the price of a cup of tea, I tell him depends where you go, but roughly a quid.
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Post by steve66 on Feb 8, 2017 10:23:13 GMT
I have a friend who did voluntary work with "needy" people, she had her new winter coat stolen containing her house keys, cost her 90 quid to replace door locks, needless to say she didn't go again...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 10:50:58 GMT
I have a friend who did voluntary work with "needy" people, she had her new winter coat stolen containing her house keys, cost her 90 quid to replace door locks, needless to say she didn't go again... Lots of these people have very complex problems. How does one of them nicking her coat make them less needy? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 10:54:16 GMT
I have a friend who did voluntary work with "needy" people, she had her new winter coat stolen containing her house keys, cost her 90 quid to replace door locks, needless to say she didn't go again... Shame that on the back of one incident she chose not to help those who need it...... |
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Post by Rick Grimes on Feb 8, 2017 12:32:01 GMT
I have a friend who did voluntary work with "needy" people, she had her new winter coat stolen containing her house keys, cost her 90 quid to replace door locks, needless to say she didn't go again... Desperate people do desperate things shocker. |
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Post by steve66 on Feb 8, 2017 12:42:17 GMT
My reply to you guys is simple, would you help again if same happened to you? It's one instance, I'm sure many helpers have instances of shall we say "being taken advantage of". I'm all for helping genuine cases in proper way but unfortunately there are still the rotten apples who spoil for the rest!
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Post by lowlands on Feb 8, 2017 12:45:42 GMT
Having spent the past few days in Manchester I've never realised the extent of the matter, you literally trip over them but.......Is throwing money the fix, I'm of the opinion it makes the problem worse, witnessed a young man handing a £5 to a rough sleeper, a severely disabled guy handing food out to a bunch, who at 9.30 were merrily drinking Jack Daniels and more than willing to take from the kind hearted sole and still packed food strewn over the pavements, obviously passer bys had fed them and it went to waste and their essential quilts thrown on the pavements, unwanted. Now I know there's Social Housing for all but in this country you'll never starve but by giving them money it'll ultimately lead to purchasing drink/drugs, which leads to extra crime, stress on the NHS. Obviously everyone has a story to tell though.... "Social housing for all" "You'll never starve" You're kidding right......? It's a very simple way of looking at a very complexed situation. I've said this on previous threads on the same subject I've helped out with my local church's homeless charity in Manchester City centre on many occasions, if you're not sympathetic or moved by some of the stories you hear them you haven't got a heart basically. Army veterans of 20 years, teenagers who have been through the care system or ran away from abusive parents/step parents, people just like me who happened to lose their job, fall into mortgage arrears, lost their home/marriage and ended up on the streets all within the space of 6 months, 15/16 year old kids prostituting themselves to survive. I would suggest if you can afford it but aren't comfortable with giving cash, next time it's cold and miserable and you're walking past a Greggs buy a £2 bacon sandwich/cup of tea, or take the spare winter coat you've hardly worn and give it to someone who looks like they could do with it. Will you occasionally give to a scammer? Yes probably but most of the time I would say not, and with regards the drink/drug issue if you were at your lowest ebb, living under a subway in fear of God knows what, no light at the end of the tunnel, possible undiagnosed mental issues could you say hand on heart you wouldn't do the same? I couldn't. There but for the grace of God and all that.... |
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Post by lowlands on Feb 8, 2017 12:55:00 GMT
"Social housing for all" "You'll never starve" You're kidding right......? It's a very simple way of looking at a very complexed situation. I've said this on previous threads on the same subject I've helped out with my local church's homeless charity in Manchester City centre on many occasions, if you're not sympathetic or moved by some of the stories you hear them you haven't got a heart basically. Army veterans of 20 years, teenagers who have been through the care system or ran away from abusive parents/step parents, people just like me who happened to lose their job, fall into mortgage arrears, lost their home/marriage and ended up on the streets all within the space of 6 months, 15/16 year old kids prostituting themselves to survive. I would suggest if you can afford it but aren't comfortable with giving cash, next time it's cold and miserable and you're walking past a Greggs buy a £2 bacon sandwich/cup of tea, or take the spare winter coat you've hardly worn and give it to someone who looks like they could do with it. Will you occasionally give to a scammer? Yes probably but most of the time I would say not, and with regards the drink/drug issue if you were at your lowest ebb, living under a subway in fear of God knows what, no light at the end of the tunnel, possible undiagnosed mental issues could you say hand on heart you wouldn't do the same? I couldn't. There but for the grace of God and all that.... |
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Post by stockportstokie on Feb 8, 2017 13:23:33 GMT
I'm in my 60's and working my cods off still for near minimum wage and worked all my life, so apart from the genuine who can't work through illness or disability I think you can guess my attitude to the "street children"... Then don't mind when I call you a cunt. |
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Post by steve66 on Feb 8, 2017 13:46:28 GMT
I'm in my 60's and working my cods off still for near minimum wage and worked all my life, so apart from the genuine who can't work through illness or disability I think you can guess my attitude to the "street children"... Then don't mind when I call you a cunt. Feel free dick if makes you feel a better person, is dick isn't it? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 13:46:45 GMT
My reply to you guys is simple, would you help again if same happened to you? It's one instance, I'm sure many helpers have instances of shall we say "being taken advantage of". I'm all for helping genuine cases in proper way but unfortunately there are still the rotten apples who spoil for the rest! No one said your friend's response is irrational. Rather more that it's not right to use single instance arguments like this to paint a simple picture in what is an incredibly complex case. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 13:48:56 GMT
I'm in my 60's and working my cods off still for near minimum wage and worked all my life, so apart from the genuine who can't work through illness or disability I think you can guess my attitude to the "street children"... If I was to take the same attitude as you appear to have I would say "tough shit you should have worked harder then for a better paying job then" But I wouldn't do that as like people on the street everyone has a story to tell and that would be very remiss of me without knowing the full facts..... |
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Post by manmarking on Feb 8, 2017 13:56:44 GMT
I have a friend who did voluntary work with "needy" people, she had her new winter coat stolen containing her house keys, cost her 90 quid to replace door locks, needless to say she didn't go again... Bloody fake news I'm afraid, mate. Easy mistake to make - you can't move for the bastard stuff these days  |
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Post by steve66 on Feb 8, 2017 14:47:20 GMT
I have a friend who did voluntary work with "needy" people, she had her new winter coat stolen containing her house keys, cost her 90 quid to replace door locks, needless to say she didn't go again... Bloody fake news I'm afraid, mate. Easy mistake to make - you can't move for the bastard stuff these days ?? Afraid you lost me m8 |
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Post by steve66 on Feb 8, 2017 14:54:46 GMT
I'm in my 60's and working my cods off still for near minimum wage and worked all my life, so apart from the genuine who can't work through illness or disability I think you can guess my attitude to the "street children"... If I was to take the same attitude as you appear to have I would say "tough shit you should have worked harder then for a better paying job then" But I wouldn't do that as like people on the street everyone has a story to tell and that would be very remiss of me without knowing the full facts..... What are your experiences of helping people on the street? I said my feelings, disabled, or unable to work people, elderly who fall on hard times I have shed loads of sympathy for their plight, others who are able bodied and sane, which majority of them are, then they should not sponge of people who earn and pay their own way in life |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 15:06:05 GMT
If I was to take the same attitude as you appear to have I would say "tough shit you should have worked harder then for a better paying job then" But I wouldn't do that as like people on the street everyone has a story to tell and that would be very remiss of me without knowing the full facts..... What are your experiences of helping people on the street? I said my feelings, disabled, or unable to work people, elderly who fall on hard times I have shed loads of sympathy for their plight, others who are able bodied and sane, which majority of them are, then they should not sponge of people who earn and pay their own way in life Read my original post. There are plenty of people on the street who aren't wanting to sponge of anyone, they are mentally ill ex-Army veterans who have been tossed to one side, they are people who have come through the care system who have had childhoods you or I probably couldn't comprehend. Are you seriously telling me you don't have any compassion for anyone on the streets who doesn't fall into the "disabled or elderly category" With regards being unable to work, I've met people who would like nothing better, but try securing and holding down a job with no fixed abode and no way of cleaning yourself on a daily basis other than a public toilet...... |
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Post by steve66 on Feb 8, 2017 15:26:02 GMT
What are your experiences of helping people on the street? I said my feelings, disabled, or unable to work people, elderly who fall on hard times I have shed loads of sympathy for their plight, others who are able bodied and sane, which majority of them are, then they should not sponge of people who earn and pay their own way in life Read my original post. There are plenty of people on the street who aren't wanting to sponge of anyone, they are mentally ill ex-Army veterans who have been tossed to one side, they are people who have come through the care system who have had childhoods you or probably couldn't comprehend. Are you seriously telling me you don't have any compassion for anyone on the streets who doesn't fall into the "disabled or elderly category" With regards being unable to work, I've met people who would like nothing better, but try securing and holding down a job with no fixed abode and no way of cleaning yourself on a daily basis other than a public toilet...... I have compassion as I've said, "genuine" covers those I've not categorised, still waiting to hear what people have actually done to help, as well as my friends experience as I've previously mentioned above, I've witnessed, as alluded to by the op, street people asking for money & then heading to the nearest bargain booze, I don't think they were going there for bread or milk! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 15:41:55 GMT
Read my original post. There are plenty of people on the street who aren't wanting to sponge of anyone, they are mentally ill ex-Army veterans who have been tossed to one side, they are people who have come through the care system who have had childhoods you or probably couldn't comprehend. Are you seriously telling me you don't have any compassion for anyone on the streets who doesn't fall into the "disabled or elderly category" With regards being unable to work, I've met people who would like nothing better, but try securing and holding down a job with no fixed abode and no way of cleaning yourself on a daily basis other than a public toilet...... I have compassion as I've said, "genuine" covers those I've not categorised, still waiting to hear what people have actually done to help, as well as my friends experience as I've previously mentioned above, I've witnessed, as alluded to by the op, street people asking for money & then heading to the nearest bargain booze, I don't think they were going there for bread or milk! I've told you what I've attempted to do in my original post, not a great deal in the grand scheme of things but what I could at the time. The charity I've tagged along with that goes into Manchester city centre has volunteers who give up 4/5 nights a week of their time, 65/75 year old retired men and women who get amongst it, roll their sleeves up and put themselves in danger at times to get food/drink/blankets to people who sleep under bridges, relentlessly trying to sort them shelters/temporary accommodation despite their being a massive shortage. If you were on the streets with nothing to look forward to apart from a cold night in a shop doorway wouldn't you head for the nearest Bargain Booze for whatever you could buy? I think I probably would...... |
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Post by steve66 on Feb 8, 2017 16:13:17 GMT
I have compassion as I've said, "genuine" covers those I've not categorised, still waiting to hear what people have actually done to help, as well as my friends experience as I've previously mentioned above, I've witnessed, as alluded to by the op, street people asking for money & then heading to the nearest bargain booze, I don't think they were going there for bread or milk! I've told you what I've attempted to do in my original post, not a great deal in the grand scheme of things but what I could at the time. The charity I've tagged along with that goes into Manchester city centre has volunteers who give up 4/5 nights a week of their time, 65/75 year old retired men and women who get amongst it, roll their sleeves up and put themselves in danger at times to get food/drink/blankets to people who sleep under bridges, relentlessly trying to sort them shelters/temporary accommodation despite their being a massive shortage. If you were on the streets with nothing to look forward to apart from a cold night in a shop doorway wouldn't you head for the nearest Bargain Booze for whatever you could buy? I think I probably would...... Must admit PP I didn't give full attention to your original post/reply, well done you for getting on with it and turning things around, I have the right to my opinion and stand by that many (just like you) can and should help themselves, and I once again reiterate I have great empathy for ALL classes who cannot do those things for whatever reason |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 16:15:49 GMT
I've told you what I've attempted to do in my original post, not a great deal in the grand scheme of things but what I could at the time. The charity I've tagged along with that goes into Manchester city centre has volunteers who give up 4/5 nights a week of their time, 65/75 year old retired men and women who get amongst it, roll their sleeves up and put themselves in danger at times to get food/drink/blankets to people who sleep under bridges, relentlessly trying to sort them shelters/temporary accommodation despite their being a massive shortage. If you were on the streets with nothing to look forward to apart from a cold night in a shop doorway wouldn't you head for the nearest Bargain Booze for whatever you could buy? I think I probably would...... Must admit PP I didn't give full attention to your original post/reply, well done you for getting on with it and turning things around, I have the right to my opinion and stand by that many (just like you) can and should help themselves, and I once again reiterate I have great empathy for ALL classes who cannot do those things for whatever reason You certainly do have a right to your opinion fella no disagreements from me there...... |
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Post by trentvale68 on Feb 8, 2017 16:29:30 GMT
I usually see one or two in the subways at Newcastle. I tend to give them 20p. If everyone gives that small sum it will help the genuine ones and if they're just a scrounging fecker, then what have you lost by 20p??!!? Must agree, if I was freezing cold and bored out of my mind with no hope or prospects, I might be indulging in some 'self medication'.
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Post by pickins on Feb 9, 2017 7:24:09 GMT
Throwing money at them won't help, the majority suffer an addiction of some kind so that will simply add fuel to the fire.
Investment in social services involved with homelessness (which has been halved), addiction and mental health would ease in the short and long term.
Massive investment in education and productivity/employment strategies would be the long term solution IMO.
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