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Post by jzime on Jan 9, 2017 22:49:03 GMT
Each to their own and all, and you're all free to discuss whatever you want. But honestly I think having a quasi-philosophical discussion about how minute changes in human history might have impacted the draw for the fourth round of the 2017 FA Cup might be the single most pointless thing on this board.
We're out, Wolves are through and will play in winner of Plymouth vs Liverpool. For the sake of any hypothetical "what ifs", I'll stick to assuming we'd have gotten the same draw as Wolves. But it quite genuinely doesn't make any real difference because we didn't go through.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 9, 2017 22:49:24 GMT
I'm correct on this. Set choices, pre ordained pre match and pre draw. Home away four teams. Several but set predictable outcomes. L v W L v S S v L S v P W v L W v S W v P P v W etc etc... Set before saturday and sealed in the bag. Free of any butterfly influence prior to the draw excluding the losers. The draw ended up Liverpool or Plymouth v Wolves. More evidence of the deterministic certainty in this instance. No outside influence to alter this scenario mate. Sorry mate Nowt do with it.
It absolutely is mate.
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Post by boothenboys1863 on Jan 9, 2017 22:49:39 GMT
see if you can get your head around causality Causal link. Causality (also referred to as causation, or cause and effect) is the agency or efficacy that connects one process (the cause) with another process or state (the effect), where the first is understood to be partly responsible for the second, and the second is dependent on the first. does thing ring any bells ???/ - we get this every fucking year if we were in the draw instead of wolves - how can you possibly assume the balls woul've come out the fucking same ??????? liverpool versus stoke or whatever it was- and the answer is - for those in Stoke who cannot grasp this concept YOU CANT !!!!!! wed have probably drawn united - because its got the same likelyhood and its a different draw mind you, Daily Star readers will think otherwise whilst looking at all the tits How do you know we'd have drawn united? 👀
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 9, 2017 22:52:22 GMT
I'm correct on this. Set choices, pre ordained pre match and pre draw. Home away four teams. Several but set predictable outcomes. L v W L v S S v L S v P W v L W v S W v P P v W etc etc... Set before saturday and sealed in the bag. Free of any butterfly influence prior to the draw excluding the losers. The draw ended up Liverpool or Plymouth v Wolves. More evidence of the deterministic certainty in this instance. No outside influence to alter this scenario mate. Sorry mate Nowt do with it. What? Are you claiming parallel superiority?
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Post by Naughtyfarty on Jan 9, 2017 22:52:27 GMT
I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Uranus There again I'm an old fart who knows nowt
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Post by Titan Uranus on Jan 9, 2017 22:53:52 GMT
Sorry mate Nowt do with it.
It absolutely is mate.
It's a different draw. It's a different time. It's a different set of circumstances.
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 22:56:38 GMT
Tony I think they best way for you to get your head around this, is to consider what we would have known if the draw had taken place before the game on Saturday.
We would have known that if we won the game then we would be away to Liverpool or Plymouth in the next round.
Whether the balls were drawn before or after the game had been played is irrelevant to how they ultimately came out of the hat.
No butterfly effect here chap.
With all due respect what has that got to do with what we are discussing.? There'd be more balls to draw before the game as you wouldn't know which one's to eliminate. Stoke could still have drawn Liverpool in a random draw but the probability of it happening would be lesser.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 9, 2017 22:57:42 GMT
It's a different draw. It's a different time. It's a different set of circumstances.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this mate. I don't see much point in pursuing this any further, we're not going to convince each other.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Jan 9, 2017 23:00:06 GMT
Of course at the end of it we didn't go through cause we're a bit toss
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 9, 2017 23:00:17 GMT
With all due respect what has that got to do with what we are discussing.? There'd be more balls to draw before the game as you wouldn't know which one's to eliminate. Stoke could still have drawn Liverpool in a random draw but the probability of it happening would be lesser. Why would there be more balls, I don't follow you?
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Post by Naughtyfarty on Jan 9, 2017 23:00:50 GMT
Could this turn out to be a classic pointless thread? whilst the main instigator of theory(Tony) is hiding now
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 9, 2017 23:03:43 GMT
With all due respect what has that got to do with what we are discussing.? There'd be more balls to draw before the game as you wouldn't know which one's to eliminate. Stoke could still have drawn Liverpool in a random draw but the probability of it happening would be lesser. The numbers were ties not teams. A team emerged from the tie, but not in the case of a draw. A draw led to an either/or like liverpool or plym. The number and order of numbers remained a constant. Immune from any eventuality.
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 23:13:27 GMT
There'd be more balls to draw before the game as you wouldn't know which one's to eliminate. Stoke could still have drawn Liverpool in a random draw but the probability of it happening would be lesser. Why would there be more balls, I don't follow you?
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 23:15:07 GMT
Why would there be more balls, I don't follow you?
Because you wouldn't know the outcome of the Stoke/Wolves game before it happened so both would be in the draw lol.
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Post by BristolMick on Jan 9, 2017 23:19:50 GMT
Because you wouldn't know the outcome of the Stoke/Wolves game before it happened so both would be in the draw lol. Are you being stupid on purpose? I hope so, but it's not helping! BM
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 9, 2017 23:20:34 GMT
Because you wouldn't know the outcome of the Stoke/Wolves game before it happened so both would be in the draw lol.
As Mr. Freeex has explained to you above, the numbers were assigned to the ties not to the teams.
In effect the two teams were sharing a number.
Exactly the same number of balls before and after the ties had been played chap.
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 23:21:26 GMT
It's easier understood where there are replays after the draw. There are more possibilities for a team that's already into the next round.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 9, 2017 23:22:04 GMT
All said and done,we won't be playing anybody in this season's FA Cup 4th.rd. So it does not matter what numbers came out where.
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 23:22:07 GMT
Because you wouldn't know the outcome of the Stoke/Wolves game before it happened so both would be in the draw lol. Are you being stupid on purpose? I hope so, but it's not helping! BM Speak for yourself.
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 23:22:51 GMT
It's easier understood where there are replays after the draw. There are more possibilities for a team that's already into the next round. You're not getting this I'm afraid.
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 23:23:41 GMT
Because you wouldn't know the outcome of the Stoke/Wolves game before it happened so both would be in the draw lol.
As Mr. Freeex has explained to you above, the numbers were assigned to the ties not to the teams.
In effect the two teams were sharing a number.
Exactly the same number of balls before and after the ties had been p
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 23:26:56 GMT
Because you wouldn't know the outcome of the Stoke/Wolves game before it happened so both would be in the draw lol.
As Mr. Freeex has explained to you above, the numbers were assigned to the ties not to the teams.
In effect the two teams were sharing a number.
Exactly the same number of balls before and after the ties had been played chap.
Er, no.
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Jan 9, 2017 23:32:09 GMT
There'd be more balls to draw before the game as you wouldn't know which one's to eliminate. Stoke could still have drawn Liverpool in a random draw but the probability of it happening would be lesser. The numbers were ties not teams. A team emerged from the tie, but not in the case of a draw. A draw led to an either/or like liverpool or plym. The number and order of numbers remained a constant. Immune from any eventuality. Sorry, not that it matters one jot as we stalled and got duffed over on Saturday, I am 100% behind titan and tony on this one. You cannot say with 100% certainty that if we had won we would be playing Liverpool, neither can you say we wouldn't. The random act of pulling some balls out of a plastic bowl by ex footballers cannot be considered a constant, the speed of light maybe, not balls being stirred and clutched by Michael and Martin. Bloody love this message board 😋. For what it's worth, I am over Saturday and feeling more optimistic again, poor fool that I am 😄.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 9, 2017 23:33:53 GMT
As Mr. Freeex has explained to you above, the numbers were assigned to the ties not to the teams.
In effect the two teams were sharing a number.
Exactly the same number of balls before and after the ties had been played chap.
Er, no.
What do you mean, no?
What bit do you not understand?
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Post by Naughtyfarty on Jan 9, 2017 23:35:51 GMT
I had the box set of Back to the Future(on Blu-ray) for Christmas and its become apparent to me that we might not have been drawn against Liverpool(or Plymouth, for Mr Spencer), certainly not a certainty
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 9, 2017 23:38:26 GMT
What do you mean, no?
What bit do you not understand?
Its you who doesn't understand though you're pretending to.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 9, 2017 23:42:20 GMT
What do you mean, no?
What bit do you not understand?
Its you who doesn't understand though you're pretending to.
What are you talking about?
Mr. Freeex and myself have explained to you that the numbers were assigned to the ties NOT to the teams, it's a stone cold fact mate.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jan 9, 2017 23:45:12 GMT
The butterfly effect is at best philosophical. In any event there wasn't enough time between saturday to monday for the metaphorical wings to have flapped sufficiently to have altered the draw of wooden balls imo. A millisecond is enough. Time, space and actions are all relevant to a set of circumstances. If those circumstances change ...so does everything else. Why use a butterfly? Why not use a wasp?
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Post by Gods on Jan 10, 2017 0:10:22 GMT
How about this?
The fashion or order in which the balls went in to the 'bag' would completely change the way they come out. We can all agree on that.
For the sake of argument say there was something, anything at all, about the team name linked to the balls which determined the way they were laid out or ordered at any stage at all during rehearsals and set up for the draw.
That's quite possible, even likely right?
Then you have an entirely different draw.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 0:28:58 GMT
If the bloke who mixed the balls up scratched his arse a millisecond before he stopped mixing them , then they would be in a different random arrangement...So I blame him...Bastard...
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