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Post by march4 on Nov 22, 2016 21:12:58 GMT
I'd rather be a bog standard Prem club than a yoyo club or even a bog standard Championship club.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 21:23:34 GMT
Yes, Mary. Agreed. Should get them up for Whatford!
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Post by metalhead on Nov 22, 2016 21:29:57 GMT
I don't really see the issue here. It's an editorial piece. He/she are allowed to express their opinions freely and in all honesty, it's hard to disagree with some points. Our identity isn't what it used to be, but that's not a problem for me.
Personally, I think the author is simply being satirical. The final sentence "what does that make Watford": I think the reader is supposed to infer 'equally average'... That's just how I read it though. If he means anything else then he's completely deluded.....
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Post by Northy on Nov 23, 2016 9:05:20 GMT
Preview taken from the Watford forum, won a few games have they? You used to know what you would get with Stoke, so much so that "can they do it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?" entered into the pantheon of great Premier League cliches alongside "best league in the world" and "anyone can beat anyone". For most of their Premier League lifespan, a game against Stoke meant 90 minutes of long balls and long throws pumped into the box, shirts ripped at corners and aggressive tackles. Playing against Stoke could be a seriously unpleasant experience, on one occasion our very own Heurelho Gomes was reduced to tears whilst playing for Spurs at the Britannia: In recent years, Stoke have tried to move away from that style of play and there's only a few stragglers left in the squad such as buck-tooth hatchet man Ryan Shawcross, ageing hobo Jonathan Walters and everyone's favourite robot beanpole Peter Crouch. Oh, and Glenn Whelan, a player who seems to have played in the Premier League for about 20 seasons yet no-one can remember anything he's ever done. The current Stoke squad is a different beast to Pulis' days, mixing these anti-football relics with a smattering of continental glamour, in the shape of Shakiri, Bojan and Arnautovic . In making this move, however, Stoke have just become another one of those non-descript, mid-table Premier League teams. They play 4-2-3-1 because that's what everyone else does, they'll sometimes play some nice football but ultimately come up short against the better teams. At least under Pulis they had a clear identity and it must have been quite fun giving regular bloody noses to the metropolitan fancy dans (more often than not, Arsenal), now Stoke are about as bog-standard a team as the Premier League can produce. To top off the bang-average theme, Stoke's manager is Mark Hughes, pictured here looking rueful after losing to Bournemouth on Saturday. If Stoke are a bog standard average team, what does that make Watford? To be fair he's got it pretty spot on is ryan buck toothed? i remember whelans goals v Villa and spurs gomez cried after getting hit by his own team mate he cant spell Shaqiri correct we have more than 'tried to move away' than the old style so no, he's not got it spot on
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 23, 2016 9:59:51 GMT
Pretty accurate description apart from his belief we have some kind of bite still that we have added continental flair too. Teams love playing us these days, we're not aggresive or for the most part dangerous at anything
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Nov 23, 2016 10:29:40 GMT
he says 'non-descript mid table' but that's exactly what Watford are aiming to be.
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Post by thanksjon on Nov 23, 2016 12:09:36 GMT
So its a battle of the Hobo against the old Homo.
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Post by sportsman on Nov 23, 2016 13:19:23 GMT
The word 'identity' should, along with the word 'precious' should be banned on here.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Nov 23, 2016 13:42:54 GMT
Just thought it was the sort of near-the-knuckle irreverence and cynicism (and possessing more than a grain of truth,)that fanzines are made of?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 23, 2016 14:16:08 GMT
Can't find much wrong with that summary. Pretty knowledgable on our team and possibly more so than many of our fans. Whelan comment is as spot on as you can get and is why he is like Marmite to our fans. Not so sure I'd be so up to summarising half an oppositions team so well. Loved the Whelan description, better than any of mine But the difference is the author of that piece is a Watford supporter. You're supposed to be a Stoke City supporter.
Despite you trying to tell everyone that Whelan is "not a Premier League player" , "has no attributes of a midfield player" and is "a bit shit", there seemed to be a fairly large Glenn Whelan shaped hole in midfield on Saturday.
Please go away.
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Post by alster on Nov 23, 2016 14:26:49 GMT
Loved the Whelan description, better than any of mine But the difference is the author of that piece is a Watford supporter. You're supposed to be a Stoke City supporter.
Despite you trying to tell everyone that Whelan is "not a Premier League player" , "has no attributes of a midfield player" and is "a bit shit", there seemed to be a fairly large Glenn Whelan shaped hole in midfield on Saturday.
Please go away.
Who are you to be telling people to go away its a public forum. There was no large Glenn Whelan shaped hole what so ever. Playing a bloke CDM who can't run or tackle does not all of a sudden make Glenn Whelan a decent player. Supporting a team does not have a criteria of being blind. I'm sure the Watford fan has no particular axe to grind with Glenn Whelan, just a bloke making a neutral observation on a player. From watching the said player for probably thousands more minutes than the Watford fan I think his description was pretty apt. I was a Stoke fan before anybody had ever heard of Whelan, even his Mum and Dad and I'll still be one long after he's gone and mainly forgotten(shouldn't take long).
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 23, 2016 15:29:18 GMT
You are indeed a first class supporter. Thank heavens our players have a supporter like you.
OK. You're right and I bow down to your superior knowledge of football. You obviously know much more about football than me.
And Mark Hughes, Tony Pulis, Martin O'Neil and Giovanni Trapattoni.
As for the little dig about not taking too long to forget Glenn Whelan when he finishes at Stoke, you do realise he is probably our second longest serving current player and if I'm not mistaken, Stoke City's most capped player of all time. Perhaps a little more respect?
Now would you please go away? I have agreed with you and asked nicely.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 23, 2016 15:35:35 GMT
MH should use it for briefing the team this week. I'd be happier if he spent his time coaching his players on how to defend.
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Post by alster on Nov 23, 2016 16:20:47 GMT
You are indeed a first class supporter. Thank heavens our players have a supporter like you. OK. You're right and I bow down to your superior knowledge of football. You obviously know much more about football than me. And Mark Hughes, Tony Pulis, Martin O'Neil and Giovanni Trapattoni. As for the little dig about not taking too long to forget Glenn Whelan when he finishes at Stoke, you do realise he is probably our second longest serving current player and if I'm not mistaken, Stoke City's most capped player of all time. Perhaps a little more respect? Now would you please go away? I have agreed with you and asked nicely. No I won't go away I will continue posting and supporting. Unlike yourself I welcome all who come to support the club not just those who share my views, I don't think it makes a shred of difference whether you've supported the club for 30 to 40 years like myself or have just been to your first game. Follow the club watch the games form your own opinions, feel free to discuss them on the oatcake message board. If you come across any muppets like okeydokiestokie2 who want to tell you what you can and can't think just ignore the balloons and carry on as above.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 23, 2016 16:27:21 GMT
I agree with you there Mentalster, I welcome all supporters too. Bit of a contradiction in your case though.
Where we differ is that I believe that supporters should, well, you know, support the team and the players, rather than just have a negative dig at them from behind their keyboard.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 23, 2016 16:31:17 GMT
MH should use it for briefing the team this week. I'd be happier if he spent his time coaching his players on how to defend. Don't disagree; we can be better at all departments of the game. My point was that we try and put a bit of fire in the belly of our players. As regards defending, a third of the Prem teams (7) have conceded more goals than us. If we could defend dead ball situations, particularly corners, we would be quite good at defending!
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Post by alster on Nov 23, 2016 16:50:01 GMT
I agree with you there Mentalster, I welcome all supporters too. Bit of a contradiction in your case though. Where we differ is that I believe that supporters should, well, you know, support the team and the players, rather than just have a negative dig at them from behind their keyboard. Like I've said I've been going for a lot of years, I've had conversations with god knows how many fans and most of them have thought some player or other was a bit shit. I've never thought any of them weren't proper fans. Maybe you are that superfan in a league of your own thinking every single thing Stoke City is flawless and fantastic and wonderful and shiny it would be so exciting to have a ground full of you I'd want to give up my seat in awe. Either that or I'd just think you were a bit of a dick and get on with my own thoughts. Maybe Santa will bring you a nice plaque to hang above your bed "STOKE CITY'S BEST EVER FAN"
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 23, 2016 16:59:26 GMT
Or maybe I'm not any kind of superfan.
Maybe I'm just the normal kind of supporter who doesn't get the unnecessary slagging off of a player who has made over 250 appearances in over 8 seasons at the club and holds the record for being the club's most capped player during his time at Stoke.
It's called respect. Whereas referring to you as Mentalster is disrespect. Do you see now?
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Post by foxysgloves on Nov 23, 2016 17:06:47 GMT
Preview taken from the Watford forum, won a few games have they? You used to know what you would get with Stoke, so much so that "can they do it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?" entered into the pantheon of great Premier League cliches alongside "best league in the world" and "anyone can beat anyone". For most of their Premier League lifespan, a game against Stoke meant 90 minutes of long balls and long throws pumped into the box, shirts ripped at corners and aggressive tackles. Playing against Stoke could be a seriously unpleasant experience, on one occasion our very own Heurelho Gomes was reduced to tears whilst playing for Spurs at the Britannia: In recent years, Stoke have tried to move away from that style of play and there's only a few stragglers left in the squad such as buck-tooth hatchet man Ryan Shawcross, ageing hobo Jonathan Walters and everyone's favourite robot beanpole Peter Crouch. Oh, and Glenn Whelan, a player who seems to have played in the Premier League for about 20 seasons yet no-one can remember anything he's ever done. The current Stoke squad is a different beast to Pulis' days, mixing these anti-football relics with a smattering of continental glamour, in the shape of Shakiri, Bojan and Arnautovic . In making this move, however, Stoke have just become another one of those non-descript, mid-table Premier League teams. They play 4-2-3-1 because that's what everyone else does, they'll sometimes play some nice football but ultimately come up short against the better teams. At least under Pulis they had a clear identity and it must have been quite fun giving regular bloody noses to the metropolitan fancy dans (more often than not, Arsenal), now Stoke are about as bog-standard a team as the Premier League can produce. To top off the bang-average theme, Stoke's manager is Mark Hughes, pictured here looking rueful after losing to Bournemouth on Saturday. If Stoke are a bog standard average team, what does that make Watford? To be fair Watford have a long and illustrious history. Their old ground Elm Park was a great old school stadium. They had the Crazy Gang of course. They won a league cup with the dream team including players like Houghton and Aldridge. And legendary England Manager Bobby Robson really put them on the map. At least I think that was Watford. Can't be a 100% though.
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Post by woodstein on Nov 23, 2016 17:09:50 GMT
That Wot?ford forum probably slates all opposition pre game. They're also maybe rather bitter that they're not part of the London scene, not that they should be looked up to, other than Brentford.
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Post by alster on Nov 23, 2016 17:14:21 GMT
Or maybe I'm not any kind of superfan. Maybe I'm just the normal kind of supporter who doesn't get the unnecessary slagging off of a player who has made over 250 appearances in over 8 seasons at the club and holds the record for being the club's most capped player during his time at Stoke. It's called respect. Whereas referring to you as Mentalster is disrespect. Do you see now? No I don't find it something to crow about that a player as limited as Whelan has made over 250 appearances in 8 seasons and had that much bearing on them you could write it on the back of a stamp. In how many of those 250 did N'Zonzi carry him to the extent that his ineffectiveness was not overly exposed, oh boy has it been since. I don't think you really understand respect. I do actually respect Glenn Whelan, he's a solid pro who's worked very hard to make the most of his career. Thats respect, saying I think he's a good Premier League midfielder when I don't would just be kissing his ass, theres a queue to do that on here you can take my turn too.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Nov 23, 2016 17:29:41 GMT
Fair enough. Maybe respect is a step forward. We will yet again have to agree to disagree.
In my opinion, Glenn Whelan has made a significant contribution to our success over the last 8 years. He is under rated by some in my opinion, reads the game well, has tactical and positional discipline (something lacking in English football as a rule), wins the ball back, shields his back 4, is a decent passer of the ball. I also think he has a good shot on him, which because of the role he plays in the team we don't see enough.
I appreciate that you don't see it that way.
As for Mentalster, I unreservedly withdraw that comment and apologise. It's not my style to have a go and I was simply using it as a device to show that disrespect and verbal abuse is unfair, particularly without the right of reply.
We will never agree on our views of the club. Suggest we swerve each other's posts to avoid boring everybody else to death.
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Post by alster on Nov 23, 2016 18:03:56 GMT
Fair enough. Maybe respect is a step forward. We will yet again have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, Glenn Whelan has made a significant contribution to our success over the last 8 years. He is under rated by some in my opinion, reads the game well, has tactical and positional discipline (something lacking in English football as a rule), wins the ball back, shields his back 4, is a decent passer of the ball. I also think he has a good shot on him, which because of the role he plays in the team we don't see enough. I appreciate that you don't see it that way. As for Mentalster, I unreservedly withdraw that comment and apologise. It's not my style to have a go and I was simply using it as a device to show that disrespect and verbal abuse is unfair, particularly without the right of reply. We will never agree on our views of the club. Suggest we swerve each other's posts to avoid boring everybody else to death. No probs I try to respect everyone, I am judgemental about footballers I've seldom met a football fan who isn't. Perhaps I am a bit hard on Glenn but as the players in the squad get better the ones you perceive as not being of the required standard stick out more. I honestly don't think we will sort out our midfield properly until we move Glenn out of the starting lineup. We've spent £30M on replacing N'Zonzi and still don't have a player that could lace his boots. Allen is very decent but he's not got the same toolbox as N'Zonzi, with him we lost an outstanding all round midfielder who bought skill, mobility, physical presence, composure when you bring all that to the table its far easier to hide a limited player alongside him. Glenn has been exposed as being deficient since we lost him and everyone who's tried to play alongside him has been blamed. Its unlikely we'll buy a player with all the qualities of N'Zonzi so what we need to do is improve on Glenn to make the partnership add up to the sum of what it did before its the only way we'll get back to the level we were at.
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Post by heworksardtho on Nov 23, 2016 18:15:25 GMT
To be fair he's got it pretty spot on is ryan buck toothed? i remember whelans goals v Villa and spurs gomez cried after getting hit by his own team mate he cant spell Shaqiri correct we have more than 'tried to move away' than the old style so no, he's not got it spot on Chill mate it was only tongue in cheek 😀
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 23, 2016 18:20:00 GMT
Pretty accurate description apart from his belief we have some kind of bite still that we have added continental flair too. Teams love playing us these days, we're not aggresive or for the most part dangerous at anything Yet we win more games of football. Teams must love playing against us. Crawl back under your stone Valeite.
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Post by djduncanjames on Nov 23, 2016 18:33:35 GMT
No one knows them; no one cares. Are they still under threat of points deduction for financial irregularities? There was something else dodgy they were on the hook for regarding too many foreign players as well?
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Post by StokieNath on Nov 23, 2016 18:41:06 GMT
They are bound to be confident aren't they? I’m sure I’ve read if results go their way they could break into top 6 with a win against us. As someone said they are probably on par with us, we can beat them they can beat us. They've got some very decent players and so have we but I think it's only fair to say they've had a better start than we have in all respects. I just hope we beat them like last season, in fine style. I won't be going so we’ll probably win anyway . Let them have their confident struts until Sunday then we'll see who the better mid table team is. COYMP!
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 23, 2016 18:45:27 GMT
Witty typical fans piece , I'm sure that some of our own scribes will come up with something for them in time for the New Year game and as others have said , just about right
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 23, 2016 19:32:59 GMT
Pretty accurate description apart from his belief we have some kind of bite still that we have added continental flair too. Teams love playing us these days, we're not aggresive or for the most part dangerous at anything Yet we win more games of football. Teams must love playing against us. Crawl back under your stone Valeite. bournemouth at home must have been a bonus game then?
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Post by alster on Nov 23, 2016 19:40:57 GMT
Yet we win more games of football. Teams must love playing against us. Crawl back under your stone Valeite. bournemouth at home must have been a bonus game then? Its football, you lose sometimes get over it.
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