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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 13, 2016 11:14:49 GMT
The ( misleading) language of politics. A good way to exclude some groups....invent/introduce new ideological terminology and grab the high ground. To be a "Populist " seems to be one of the latest derogatory categories to be put in. Haven't a clue myself , but it seems a bit remote from " ordinary peope" "Populism is a political ideology that holds that virtuous citizens are mistreated by a small circle of elites, who can be overthrown if the people recognize the danger and work together. Populism depicts elites as trampling on the rights, values, and voice of the legitimate people". Wikipedia 1 : a member of a political party claiming to represent the common people; especially often capitalized : a member of a United States political party formed in 1891 primarily to represent agrarian interests and to advocate the free coinage of silver and government control of monopolies 2 : a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people" Merriam-Webster "Trump, Erdoğan, Farage: The attractions of populism for politicians, the dangers for democracy Populists are just different elites who try to grab power with the help of a collective fantasy of political purity" Jan Werner Muller Trump, Erdoğan, Farage: The attractions of populism for politicians, the dangers for democracy www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/02/trump-erdogan-farage-the-attractions-of-populism-for-politicians-the-dangers-for-democracy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Nov 13, 2016 12:08:51 GMT
The ( misleading) language of politics. A good way to exclude some groups....invent/introduce new ideological terminology and grab the high ground. To be a "Populist " seems to be one of the latest derogatory categories to be put in. Haven't a clue myself , but it seems a bit remote from " ordinary peope" "Populism is a political ideology that holds that virtuous citizens are mistreated by a small circle of elites, who can be overthrown if the people recognize the danger and work together. Populism depicts elites as trampling on the rights, values, and voice of the legitimate people". Wikipedia 1 : a member of a political party claiming to represent the common people; especially often capitalized : a member of a United States political party formed in 1891 primarily to represent agrarian interests and to advocate the free coinage of silver and government control of monopolies 2 : a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people" Merriam-Webster "Trump, Erdoğan, Farage: The attractions of populism for politicians, the dangers for democracy Populists are just different elites who try to grab power with the help of a collective fantasy of political purity" Jan Werner Muller Trump, Erdoğan, Farage: The attractions of populism for politicians, the dangers for democracy www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/02/trump-erdogan-farage-the-attractions-of-populism-for-politicians-the-dangers-for-democracy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardIt also could be added that populists appeal to the ignorance, misconceptions, delusions of vulnerable groups of people in order to exercise power primarily for their own advantage? Look at how Nigel Farage has continued to line his pockets with a M.E.P. salary and expenses after 'Brexit'. Not content with that, he was the only British politician to jump on Trump's bandwagon and is currently in the U.S.A. bathing himself in fame! Won't be long before he is in France doing the same for Le Pen! Can you imagine Obama turning up campaigning for Labour at the last general election?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2016 12:12:17 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement.
I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump.
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Populism
Nov 13, 2016 12:21:39 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 13, 2016 12:21:39 GMT
My point was a bit simplistic really, I did not expect a rehash of the repetitive arguments but obviously posters can make of it what they want. I simply wish to make the point, as Red says , that it seems to be the latest derogatory term/buzz word (a fact probably supported by the response to the thread so far!)....BUT the term itself, the root I guess is "popular" , does not seem to reflect the meaning , which in any case is inconsistent, dependent upon who you ask. Anyway , I perhaps regret starting the thread, a bit heavy going for me and I am out of my depth.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Nov 13, 2016 12:34:53 GMT
My point was a bit simplistic really, I did not expect a rehash of the repetitive arguments but obviously posters can make of it what they want. I simply wish to make the point, as Red says , that it seems to be the latest derogatory term/buzz word (a fact probably supported by the response to the thread so far!)....BUT the term itself, the root I guess is "popular" , does not seem to reflect the meaning , which in any case is inconsistent, dependent upon who you ask. Anyway , I perhaps regret starting the thread, a bit heavy going for me and I am out of my depth. Your thread is very useful! Of course, you can have populism of the left too. Corybyn is regarded as more of a left-wing populist than a socialist e.g. tax the rich! nationalise our old public assets! The Populists in 19th century America had a very strong case. The farmer's grain had to be stored in monopoly grain elevators, then transported by the local monopoly railway company.As you can imagine, the farmers were screwed to high heaven! Silverism was attractive because it was believed constrained gold supplies meant over tight monetary policy. Replacing gold with more plentiful silver would alleviate this problem! Quantitative easing for the 19th century!
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 13, 2016 12:36:00 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement. I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. Don't put yourself down like that, mate.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2016 12:37:48 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement. I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. Don't put yourself down like that, mate. Dick
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 13, 2016 12:40:23 GMT
Don't put yourself down like that, mate. Dick Hey, no need to go mental over your description of yourself.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 13, 2016 12:45:18 GMT
Well done on taking the thread down to your usual level, dickhead! Well, you're certainly convincing me that you have now become an open-minded, tolerant Remainer.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 13, 2016 13:24:33 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement. I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. I've got some more tar for that big brush of yours if you run out youth.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Nov 13, 2016 13:36:52 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement. I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. I've got some more tar for that big brush of yours if you run out youth. Morning Dr. Goebbels! Nice to see you back in action again!
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Populism
Nov 13, 2016 14:46:04 GMT
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 13, 2016 14:46:04 GMT
I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. Patently untrue as regards the EU referendum, as demonstrated by the level of discourse on this site prior to the referendum. That may be circumstantial, but it's more evidence than sneering remain voters ever produce. As pointed out by others, the irony of your comment is delicious.
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Populism
Nov 13, 2016 14:57:36 GMT
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 13, 2016 14:57:36 GMT
I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. Patently untrue as regards the EU referendum, as demonstrated by the level of discourse on this site prior to the referendum. That may be circumstantial, but it's more evidence than sneering remain voters ever produce. As pointed out by others, the irony of your comment is delicious. Come on. Surely you can dig out a few old posts by the usual suspects to disprove me faster than that!
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Populism
Nov 13, 2016 15:00:24 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 13, 2016 15:00:24 GMT
It probably has a bad reputation as it was used by Adolf Hitler to gain power. Given what Hitler went on to do, everyone is a bit wary of giving it a second chance. A bit like Communism in that sense, it went so horribly wrong that no-one is prepared to give it a chance again.
It's possible populism can be done in a different way, and be a more positive force. But I'd be amazed if Donald Trump is the man to change people's perception of that.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Nov 13, 2016 15:40:01 GMT
Populist political practice has little or no ideological anchor to ground it in reality. Historically, for that reason, it is always doomed to failure. General appeals to the 'masses' eventually create unrealistic expectations which can never be fulfilled. It contains the seeds of it's own destruction and, as always, it is the poor and least able who will end up suffering the most. See Peronism and similar in South America and elsewhere.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 13, 2016 15:58:39 GMT
I've got some more tar for that big brush of yours if you run out youth. Morning Dr. Goebbels! Nice to see you back in action again! Good afternoon Mr Alcock. A pleasure as always sir.
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Populism
Nov 13, 2016 19:11:02 GMT
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 13, 2016 19:11:02 GMT
Ignorant people are very sure of themselves
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 13, 2016 19:16:21 GMT
The ( misleading) language of politics. A good way to exclude some groups....invent/introduce new ideological terminology and grab the high ground. To be a "Populist " seems to be one of the latest derogatory categories to be put in. Haven't a clue myself , but it seems a bit remote from " ordinary peope" "Populism is a political ideology that holds that virtuous citizens are mistreated by a small circle of elites, who can be overthrown if the people recognize the danger and work together. Populism depicts elites as trampling on the rights, values, and voice of the legitimate people". Wikipedia 1 : a member of a political party claiming to represent the common people; especially often capitalized : a member of a United States political party formed in 1891 primarily to represent agrarian interests and to advocate the free coinage of silver and government control of monopolies 2 : a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people" Merriam-Webster "Trump, Erdoğan, Farage: The attractions of populism for politicians, the dangers for democracy Populists are just different elites who try to grab power with the help of a collective fantasy of political purity" Jan Werner Muller Trump, Erdoğan, Farage: The attractions of populism for politicians, the dangers for democracy www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/02/trump-erdogan-farage-the-attractions-of-populism-for-politicians-the-dangers-for-democracy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardIt also could be added that populists appeal to the ignorance, misconceptions, delusions of vulnerable groups of people in order to exercise power primarily for their own advantage? Look at how Nigel Farage has continued to line his pockets with a M.E.P. salary and expenses after 'Brexit'. Not content with that, he was the only British politician to jump on Trump's bandwagon and is currently in the U.S.A. bathing himself in fame! Won't be long before he is in France doing the same for Le Pen! Can you imagine Obama turning up campaigning for Labour at the last general election? Didn't Obama campaign for remain ? .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 19:29:37 GMT
The ( misleading) language of politics. A good way to exclude some groups....invent/introduce new ideological terminology and grab the high ground. To be a "Populist " seems to be one of the latest derogatory categories to be put in. Haven't a clue myself , but it seems a bit remote from " ordinary peope" "Populism is a political ideology that holds that virtuous citizens are mistreated by a small circle of elites, who can be overthrown if the people recognize the danger and work together. Populism depicts elites as trampling on the rights, values, and voice of the legitimate people". Wikipedia 1 : a member of a political party claiming to represent the common people; especially often capitalized : a member of a United States political party formed in 1891 primarily to represent agrarian interests and to advocate the free coinage of silver and government control of monopolies 2 : a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people" Merriam-Webster "Trump, Erdoğan, Farage: The attractions of populism for politicians, the dangers for democracy Populists are just different elites who try to grab power with the help of a collective fantasy of political purity" Jan Werner Muller Trump, Erdoğan, Farage: The attractions of populism for politicians, the dangers for democracy www.theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/02/trump-erdogan-farage-the-attractions-of-populism-for-politicians-the-dangers-for-democracy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardIt also could be added that populists appeal to the ignorance, misconceptions, delusions of vulnerable groups of people in order to exercise power primarily for their own advantage? Look at how Nigel Farage has continued to line his pockets with a M.E.P. salary and expenses after 'Brexit'. Not content with that, he was the only British politician to jump on Trump's bandwagon and is currently in the U.S.A. bathing himself in fame! Won't be long before he is in France doing the same for Le Pen! Can you imagine Obama turning up campaigning for Labour at the last general election? Farage distanced himself from le pen from the beginning...wouldn't join forces in the eu when le pen asked so, I very much doubt that.
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Populism
Nov 22, 2016 7:18:15 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 22, 2016 7:18:15 GMT
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Post by manmarking on Nov 22, 2016 7:58:06 GMT
On a purely semantic level, the fact that the term "populism" is commonly expressed with such disdain just goes to illustrate the total contempt that most politicians have for the basic concept of democracy - the will of the majority of the people.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 13:07:47 GMT
He should be jailed for inciting hatred of democracy
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Post by desman2 on Nov 22, 2016 13:09:33 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement. I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. I put a videop on a thread called are they this stupid and they were not populists. So your theory of uneducated dosnt add up
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Post by starkiller on Nov 22, 2016 15:20:59 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement. I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. 1. Why is that deemed the lowest common denominator when these are real issues faced by people? So serious problems for people are now considered the lowest common denominator? 2. The education system is an exercise in liberal faux-leftie, sneering elitist thought control. Further evidence today with the banning of Milo. Something these faux-lefties can't compute, as he is also gay. A bit like them defending women's rights, gay rights and Muslim rights all together. Sorry they don't go together. 3. The voting demographics throw up some inconvenient anomalies for the patronising arguments of the media cucks. 4. Vote Leave was the single greatest decision ever made by the British electorate. And I say that unapologetically and unreservedly.
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Post by hammered on Nov 22, 2016 15:53:56 GMT
My point was a bit simplistic really, I did not expect a rehash of the repetitive arguments but obviously posters can make of it what they want. I simply wish to make the point, as Red says , that it seems to be the latest derogatory term/buzz word (a fact probably supported by the response to the thread so far!)....BUT the term itself, the root I guess is "popular" , does not seem to reflect the meaning , which in any case is inconsistent, dependent upon who you ask. Anyway , I perhaps regret starting the thread, a bit heavy going for me and I am out of my depth. A very valid thread Big John particularly as it's opening up the debate about the normally suppressed wishes of vast swathes of disillusioned and disconnected people. If as Red suggests Brexit and Trump are a result of the unwashed/uneducated getting a voice for a change - it kind of nails proper democracy in an instant. You haven't got to look far to find supporting evidence that the intelligentsia start this process of demonising free-thinking Anyone's outside the bubble in the campuses of our Universities - www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3960800/KATIE-HOPKINS-College-liberals-think-people-voted-Trump-Brexit-dumb-letting-brainwash-society-s-stupid.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490Eventually over 50% of the population will have a Masters in vaginal discharge or some other pointless ology but still won't find a job, a house or be able to pay the bills - They will just think they know how to be superior!!
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Post by stockportstokie on Nov 22, 2016 15:56:26 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement. I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. You're so fucking thick I genuinely hope you haven't bred. Education is the front line in the manufacturing of consent. Have a watch, you might actually learn something
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Post by starkiller on Nov 22, 2016 16:05:38 GMT
Populism is the current buzzword for appealing to the lowest common denominator of the electorate on race, immigration, jobs for native born people etc etc etc. In short, in the west, it means white people with low educational achievement. I'm sure some on here will go mental at that description but it's the reality, sorry. That's mainly who voted Leave and Trump. You're so fucking thick I genuinely hope you haven't bred. Education is the front line in the manufacturing of consent. Have a watch, you might actually learn something These cucks still cannot handle that folk don't buy this manufactured consensus anymore. And that's why on TV and radio, it's still going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on... This would not be the case if the establishment had got the result it believed was in the bag.
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Populism
Nov 22, 2016 16:49:21 GMT
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 22, 2016 16:49:21 GMT
My point was a bit simplistic really, I did not expect a rehash of the repetitive arguments but obviously posters can make of it what they want. I simply wish to make the point, as Red says , that it seems to be the latest derogatory term/buzz word (a fact probably supported by the response to the thread so far!)....BUT the term itself, the root I guess is "popular" , does not seem to reflect the meaning , which in any case is inconsistent, dependent upon who you ask. Anyway , I perhaps regret starting the thread, a bit heavy going for me and I am out of my depth. A very valid thread Big John particularly as it's opening up the debate about the normally suppressed wishes of vast swathes of disillusioned and disconnected people. If as Red suggests Brexit and Trump are a result of the unwashed/uneducated getting a voice for a change - it kind of nails proper democracy in an instant. You haven't got to look far to find supporting evidence that the intelligentsia start this process of demonising free-thinking Anyone's outside the bubble in the campuses of our Universities - www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3960800/KATIE-HOPKINS-College-liberals-think-people-voted-Trump-Brexit-dumb-letting-brainwash-society-s-stupid.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490Eventually over 50% of the population will have a Masters in vaginal discharge or some other pointless ology but still won't find a job, a house or be able to pay the bills - They will just think they know how to be superior!! Well you certainly don't need a degree to be condescending.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 22, 2016 17:04:59 GMT
It also could be added that populists appeal to the ignorance, misconceptions, delusions of vulnerable groups of people in order to exercise power primarily for their own advantage? Look at how Nigel Farage has continued to line his pockets with a M.E.P. salary and expenses after 'Brexit'. Not content with that, he was the only British politician to jump on Trump's bandwagon and is currently in the U.S.A. bathing himself in fame! Won't be long before he is in France doing the same for Le Pen! Can you imagine Obama turning up campaigning for Labour at the last general election? Didn't Obama campaign for remain ? . Yes. Back of the queue and all that.
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Populism
Nov 22, 2016 19:19:53 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 22, 2016 19:19:53 GMT
My point was a bit simplistic really, I did not expect a rehash of the repetitive arguments but obviously posters can make of it what they want. I simply wish to make the point, as Red says , that it seems to be the latest derogatory term/buzz word (a fact probably supported by the response to the thread so far!)....BUT the term itself, the root I guess is "popular" , does not seem to reflect the meaning , which in any case is inconsistent, dependent upon who you ask. Anyway , I perhaps regret starting the thread, a bit heavy going for me and I am out of my depth. A very valid thread Big John particularly as it's opening up the debate about the normally suppressed wishes of vast swathes of disillusioned and disconnected people. If as Red suggests Brexit and Trump are a result of the unwashed/uneducated getting a voice for a change - it kind of nails proper democracy in an instant. You haven't got to look far to find supporting evidence that the intelligentsia start this process of demonising free-thinking Anyone's outside the bubble in the campuses of our Universities - www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3960800/KATIE-HOPKINS-College-liberals-think-people-voted-Trump-Brexit-dumb-letting-brainwash-society-s-stupid.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490Eventually over 50% of the population will have a Masters in vaginal discharge or some other pointless ology but still won't find a job, a house or be able to pay the bills - They will just think they know how to be superior!! Hammered I agree with most of what you say , except that I think that the much maligned young people coming out of university are the biggest victims of all this. They go to Univerity very often as there is no other way forward. They have trusted the older generation and have been shafted and deceived ( Clegg). They did not make the rules. They are faced with an uncertain future, lumbered with lifetime debt, can't reasonably get on the housing market, are crippled by things such as car insurance, are expected to make provision ( save) for their own pensions and are often ridiculed for their attitude etc. The young people I work with at University are overwhelmingly decent....but unfortunately indoctrinated with the ( old) New world uni-vision - what I mean in a nutshell, dnot think that mosteoporosis of them really think that they are superior, rather they are scared of the future and are grateful to have a job .....generally speaking and IMHO of course.
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