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Post by no1972 on Sept 11, 2016 14:02:21 GMT
I'm sorry but we've had the entire window to assess and evaluate the goalkeeping situation and to come through it with a 40 year old and a Derby reserve clearly hasn't rectified it or provided any stability or confidence to our rearguard. Glenn Johnson is a miss granted but how many games has he played as opposed to how many he's missed? - again unreliable fitness wise and not addressed in the window. Oh and to compound the issue we have gone back to square pegs and round holes with regards to Cameron being played RB instead of Bardsley. Shawcross - I don't think anyone currently even Ryan himself can be confident whether he is going to be able to get himself fit enough to be anywhere near the required standards. It's also a critical position where we have seen 2 go out and 1 come in which was complete madness. And what would be your answer to my previous question? Ryan still has a huge future as captain at the stoke city. He is getting better , fitter and stronger each week. It takes time. In football you don't have time every week that goes bye is another 3 points,the manager knew Butland was injured but did nothing in the window but to stick with a 40 year old and bring in the Derby No2.We new we were a CH short so he lets one go.He new we had no pace so what as he done nothing.Dont know if you watched the game live or on a screen but those of us at the ground were disgusted by the body language of a lot of the players,the manager showed a lack of discipline ,it then spread to his players how can he punish any player for dissent or lack of discipline.I am not one who believes in keep sacking managers on a few bad results but this is not a few bad results and he has spent 42 million on three players.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 11, 2016 14:02:34 GMT
Very difficult fixtures when you look at it like that Come on only 6 games against teams in the top 8 we should be beating these teams just like everyone else does
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Post by reddipotter on Sept 11, 2016 14:05:18 GMT
Giving him time? This is his fourth season with us, and he's had seven transfer windows. And he's delivered three top 10 finishes. Hence earning him time. I'd argue that those ninth place finishes have masked a number of problems and weaknesses which eventually were bound to find us out. Do you really think our performances last season were good on any sort of consistent level? It was a very poor league last year, but it was always likely that there would be improvement this season. The lack of a consistent plan in terms of tactics or formation, and the scatter-gun transfer policy have led to the current situation. I was pointing this out over eighteen months ago.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 11, 2016 14:08:12 GMT
And he's delivered three top 10 finishes. Hence earning him time. I'd argue that those ninth place finishes have masked a number of problems and weaknesses which eventually were bound to find us out. Do you really think our performances last season were good on any sort of consistent level? It was a very poor league last year, but it was always likely that there would be improvement this season. The lack of a consistent plan in terms of tactics or formation, and the scatter-gun transfer policy have led to the current situation. I was pointing this out over eighteen months ago. Of course there were problems and inconsistencies. That's why we finished ninth and not top. It's still a fine achievement, they're our best league performances for 40 years and in spite of our poor performances this season and at the end of last, that has surely earned the manager time just as his predecessor's achievements earned him time.
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 11, 2016 14:15:59 GMT
It has taken 2 years so far, do Mark and his team have a clue what defending is about ? They do , the stats from the previous seasons back this up. Key players will return and so will the results. This is a tough time but everybody at the club are staying calm and level headed , fans must do the same. Key players injured or not, I really think experienced professionals should be able to mark players in the box! I guess all our defensive players should be able to do this! The first goal yesterday was really a result of very poor defending, and Ryan even pointed at Son and told Geoff to mark him before he received the ball and scored. Geoff decided not to follow these instructions to Ryan's frustration! Take a look at the highlights of the game and you can really see how poor this is! I also noticed on numerous occasions that we decided not to mark their player at the far post! Is this instructions given to the players? If not, how on earth could this go on during the whole game without it being corrected by the management team? When something is that obvious actions must be taken!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2016 14:18:01 GMT
Very difficult fixtures when you look at it like that Come on only 6 games against teams in the top 8 we should be beating these teams just like everyone else does 2 of the remaining 4 were against relegation threatened sides in the final throes of the season, 1 was to a promoted side at home in the first match of the season and the other.... well we won
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Post by ChrisKamarasPerm on Sept 11, 2016 14:37:09 GMT
They do , the stats from the previous seasons back this up. Key players will return and so will the results. This is a tough time but everybody at the club are staying calm and level headed , fans must do the same. Key players injured or not, I really think experienced professionals should be able to mark players in the box! I guess all our defensive players should be able to do this! The first goal yesterday was really a result of very poor defending, and Ryan even pointed at Son and told Geoff to mark him before he received the ball and scored. Geoff decided not to follow these instructions to Ryan's frustration! Take a look at the highlights of the game and you can really see how poor this is! I also noticed on numerous occasions that we decided not to mark their player at the far post! Is this instructions given to the players? If not, how on earth could this go on during the whole game without it being corrected by the management team? When something is that obvious actions must be taken! I agree Geoff has many failings as a player.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 11, 2016 14:51:31 GMT
For some reason, seeing we've played only 2 bottom half teams in the 10 matches, and didn't lose to either of them, makes me not as worried.
I'm looking forward to the games we have in October, and maybe getting a few wins.
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Post by troj on Sept 11, 2016 15:04:16 GMT
Four of the defeats came against Tottenham and Shitty so at least we're consistent lol. Aside from the Liverpool match the rest could have gone either way. Absolutely no need to panic......yet 😄
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 11, 2016 15:19:09 GMT
Our last 10 league games: Liverpool – Stoke 4-1 Stoke – Spurs 0-4 Man. C. – Stoke 4-0 Stoke – Sunderland 1-1 Crystal P. – Stoke 2-1 Stoke – West Ham 2-1 Middlesbr. – Stoke 1-1 Stoke – Man. C. 1-4 Everton – Stoke 1-0 Stoke – Spurs 0-4 Total: 5 points, scored 7, conceded 26 Average points per game 0.5 Average goals scored per game 0.7 Average goals conceded per game 2.6 Hmmmm, it is a bit of a worry...... Don't wish to make matters worse, but the only game we won out of that lot (against West Ham), we were very lucky, for some better finishing from West Ham and they'd have been out of sight before we even replied!!! Pretty much the same against Middlesbrough, they hit the post/crossbar twice before we scored from the free kick!!! Just saying like!!!
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 11, 2016 15:46:43 GMT
I don't think you can take 6 games at the end of last season and then group them together with 4 games at the start of this season and get a really true picture of the management performance of Mark Hughes. The true way of judging his performance is on a season by season basis, in that respect he finished 9th last season which was a great achievement and for all we know he could well do the same this season.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 11, 2016 15:56:43 GMT
They do , the stats from the previous seasons back this up. Key players will return and so will the results. This is a tough time but everybody at the club are staying calm and level headed , fans must do the same. Key players injured or not, I really think experienced professionals should be able to mark players in the box! I guess all our defensive players should be able to do this! The first goal yesterday was really a result of very poor defending, and Ryan even pointed at Son and told Geoff to mark him before he received the ball and scored. Geoff decided not to follow these instructions to Ryan's frustration! Take a look at the highlights of the game and you can really see how poor this is! I also noticed on numerous occasions that we decided not to mark their player at the far post! Is this instructions given to the players? If not, how on earth could this go on during the whole game without it being corrected by the management team? When something is that obvious actions must be taken! Cameron had a poor game but as he appeared to point out to Ryan, he had a man at the bad post, bizarrely Whelan was behind Geoff rather then in the centre, but the key errors were Whelan not closing down Ali, Allen diving in and Imbula watching as Eriksen cut it across, he was the closest man to the space Son went into, plus Given not getting close to a gentle shot. The defence were in exactly the positions a coach would expect, line of 4 tight to the goal with far full back at the post, midfield were not.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 11, 2016 16:06:50 GMT
Come on only 6 games against teams in the top 8 we should be beating these teams just like everyone else does 2 of the remaining 4 were against relegation threatened sides in the final throes of the season, 1 was to a promoted side at home in the first match of the season and the other.... well we won This. And we should have got something at Everton last week. Horrid run of fixtures.
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Post by samba :) on Sept 11, 2016 16:07:15 GMT
Its that time again
4 past stoke
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Post by chiswickpotter on Sept 11, 2016 16:13:02 GMT
Our last 10 league games: Liverpool – Stoke 4-1 Stoke – Spurs 0-4 Man. C. – Stoke 4-0 Stoke – Sunderland 1-1 Crystal P. – Stoke 2-1 Stoke – West Ham 2-1 Middlesbr. – Stoke 1-1 Stoke – Man. C. 1-4 Everton – Stoke 1-0 Stoke – Spurs 0-4 Total: 5 points, scored 7, conceded 26 Average points per game 0.5 Average goals scored per game 0.7 Average goals conceded per game 2.6 Take out City and Spurs and the Liverpool game when Haugaard was especially poor on crosses and you have 5 games, 5 points with 3 away games and 1.2 goals a game (including 1 at Crystal Palace from a shocking goalkeeping error at a free kick and a harsh penalty at Everton). We have played arguably the two most dynamic teams in the country twice in 10 games, it tells us very little other than that when we lost our 3 best players last season to injury (Johnson, Butland and Afellay) we struggled. In the 7 games before Liverpool we took 14 points at 2 points per game and in the 12 games prior to Liverpool 18 points at 1.5 per game. 4 tough games this season and 6 in 10 games equally reveal little, more time is needed before we will know how our new signings are going. As it stands, we have better players than last season in key positions but this is a tougher league so we are more likely looking at 11th-13th than top 10
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 11, 2016 16:25:00 GMT
I don't think you can take 6 games at the end of last season and then group them together with 4 games at the start of this season and get a really true picture of the management performance of Mark Hughes. The true way of judging his performance is on a season by season basis, in that respect he finished 9th last season which was a great achievement and for all we know he could well do the same this season. Hopefully we'll be in the upper half again, but not without addressing our defensive weaknesses! We won't score 3-4 goals on a regular bases that's for sure!
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 11, 2016 16:32:42 GMT
Key players injured or not, I really think experienced professionals should be able to mark players in the box! I guess all our defensive players should be able to do this! The first goal yesterday was really a result of very poor defending, and Ryan even pointed at Son and told Geoff to mark him before he received the ball and scored. Geoff decided not to follow these instructions to Ryan's frustration! Take a look at the highlights of the game and you can really see how poor this is! I also noticed on numerous occasions that we decided not to mark their player at the far post! Is this instructions given to the players? If not, how on earth could this go on during the whole game without it being corrected by the management team? When something is that obvious actions must be taken! Cameron had a poor game but as he appeared to point out to Ryan, he had a man at the bad post, bizarrely Whelan was behind Geoff rather then in the centre, but the key errors were Whelan not closing down Ali, Allen diving in and Imbula watching as Eriksen cut it across, he was the closest man to the space Son went into, plus Given not getting close to a gentle shot. The defence were in exactly the positions a coach would expect, line of 4 tight to the goal with far full back at the post, midfield were not. Geoff stayed at the back post even if Ryan told him to mark Son who went into the most dangerous position for us without Geoff bothering to go with him! Really poor defending by Geoff who then had nobody to mark, but still didn't understand the danger of leving Son unmarked! Why he didn't bother to go with him still baffles me to be honest! As Whelan probably expected Geoff to mark Son I don't think Whelan's positioning was that way off really!
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 11, 2016 16:41:09 GMT
The vast majority of posters on this board rob think Mark Hughes is a good manager and his record in the PL confirms that. It is highly unlikely that a good manager becomes a bad manager, why and how could that happen, more likely that a few things have combined to create a run of poor results. It is possible that he won't achieve a top ten position this season, although I think he will, nevertheless one relatively disappointing season should not be reason to show him the door, Stoke have had stability on the management front and that's one of the reasons why the club has flourished over the last ten years or so.
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mf37
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 75
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Post by mf37 on Sept 11, 2016 16:46:39 GMT
I do see it but that's why we have a squad. Other teams have key players missing and don't concede as easy as we do. Who else has 3 of their best back 5 missing? Who else has injury prone backs and didn't bring in adequate cover? Who else is so dependent on their goalie and thought it wise to stick with a 40 year old back-up? if we're willing to blame 23 games of poor form on injuries, who is responsible for not recognizing and mitigating the risk?
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Post by senojbor on Sept 11, 2016 17:12:01 GMT
Since January when we really played well there's been nothing really to shout about. A couple of narrow wins against likes of Newcastle and Villa and the odd result. Hughes has done what I always dreaded to happen, Filled the side with Expensive foreign players tied on long contracts. It needs a lot of thought by the management to address what's happening.
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Post by malteser68 on Sept 11, 2016 17:32:33 GMT
I'm sorry but we've had the entire window to assess and evaluate the goalkeeping situation and to come through it with a 40 year old and a Derby reserve clearly hasn't rectified it or provided any stability or confidence to our rearguard. Glenn Johnson is a miss granted but how many games has he played as opposed to how many he's missed? - again unreliable fitness wise and not addressed in the window. Oh and to compound the issue we have gone back to square pegs and round holes with regards to Cameron being played RB instead of Bardsley. Shawcross - I don't think anyone currently even Ryan himself can be confident whether he is going to be able to get himself fit enough to be anywhere near the required standards. It's also a critical position where we have seen 2 go out and 1 come in which was complete madness. And what would be your answer to my previous question? Ryan still has a huge future as captain at the stoke city. He is getting better , fitter and stronger each week. It takes time. Better fitter and stronger And I'm sure more confident each week with every 4-0 mauling se suffer ,..,
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 11, 2016 17:39:01 GMT
Since January when we really played well there's been nothing really to shout about. A couple of narrow wins against likes of Newcastle and Villa and the odd result. Hughes has done what I always dreaded to happen, Filled the side with Expensive foreign players tied on long contracts. It needs a lot of thought by the management to address what's happening. Isn't that what every PL side does nowadays?
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Post by fentonstokie1 on Sept 11, 2016 18:03:59 GMT
This is a squad game. There will always be injuries and that's the reason we have a squad. If the squad isn't good enough then we all know where the fault lies. EXACTLY
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 11, 2016 20:37:47 GMT
The vast majority of posters on this board rob think Mark Hughes is a good manager and his record in the PL confirms that. It is highly unlikely that a good manager becomes a bad manager, why and how could that happen, more likely that a few things have combined to create a run of poor results. It is possible that he won't achieve a top ten position this season, although I think he will, nevertheless one relatively disappoiting season should not be reason to show him the door, Stoke have had stability on the management front and that's one of the reasons why the club has flourished over the last ten years or so. I've never suggested that he should go, but I still want him to do the necessary things to shore up our defence! I really can't understand why we end up conceding the amount of goals we do! This should really be possible to avoid with the players we have, and marking players in the box should really be emphasized!
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