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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 10, 2016 19:20:00 GMT
You can't have just one player in midfield (Allen) prepared to put his foot in and do some work when we don't have the ball, we'd get completely overrun.
I could understand it (to a point) when people were saying when he first signed that they wanted to see Allen play the Whelan role but now they've actually had a chance to see him here for a few games, I wonder what games people who are still advocating it, have actually been watching?
Allen is all over the pitch putting a 100% in BECAUSE he knows Whelan is there to mop up behind him, put that responsibility on to Allen and you'd completely hamstring, not to mention that there wouldn't be anybody attempting to put a tackle in until the play got to him.
Not even Whelan is playing the Whelan role at the moment so what's the harm in giving it a go ? It's not just about the dirty side of the game breaking up opposition attacks etc, it's about getting the ball from one of your back four/keeper in a tight situation and being confident in keeping possession and moving play forwards not backwards or sideways. Absolutely worth a try for me......
It's worth a try having just ONE player in midfield attempting to win the ball when we're not in possession, whilst at the same time totally hamstringing your most dynamic midfielder in the process?
Ok then, if that's what you want ...
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 10, 2016 19:20:24 GMT
The only time we created anything in open play was when Bojan was belatedly introduced. Not true. Imbula played a peach of a ball through to Arnie who had drifted offside in the first half. Pass of the match. A spectacular ball bit of bend, inch perfect, cut them apart. I was virtually in line with it. A peach.
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Post by stokecitydom on Sept 10, 2016 19:21:56 GMT
Does he though? I thought Imbula had his best game in ages today, and I'd even consider dropping Whelan and bringing Bojan in. Allen proved at the Euros he can play the sitting deep role, and Arnie, Bojan, Shaqiri behind Bony is a dream come true for me.
You can't have just one player in midfield (Allen) prepared to put his foot in and do some work when we don't have the ball though, we'd get completely overrun.
I could understand it (to a point) when people were saying when he first signed, that they wanted to see Allen play the Whelan role but now they've actually had a chance to see him here for a few games, I wonder what games people who are still advocating it, have actually been watching?
Allen is all over the pitch putting a 100% in BECAUSE he knows Whelan is there to mop up behind him, put that responsibility on to Allen and you'd completely hamstring the lad, not to mention that there wouldn't be anybody even attempting to put a tackle in until the play got to him.
Whelan was poor yet again today. Did he win a tackle today? I thought Imbula was much improved & did more defensive work today. Whelan will be lucky to keep his place in my opinion.
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Disgusted
Sept 10, 2016 19:24:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 19:24:31 GMT
Not even Whelan is playing the Whelan role at the moment so what's the harm in giving it a go ? It's not just about the dirty side of the game breaking up opposition attacks etc, it's about getting the ball from one of your back four/keeper in a tight situation and being confident in keeping possession and moving play forwards not backwards or sideways. Absolutely worth a try for me......
It's worth a try having just ONE player in midfielder attempting to win the ball when we're not in possession, whilst at the same time totally hamstringing your most dynamic midfielder in the process?
Ok then, if that's what you want ...
It is what I want. Our dynamic midfielder's dynamism is completely pointless whilst we keep getting turned over. And our defensive midfielder looks absolutely spent. It's called pragmatism and a large dose of it is needed to get us out of this spell. Replace Imbula with Adam, I'm not arsed, just stop Whelan from moving the ball at a snails pace......
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 10, 2016 19:32:49 GMT
It's worth a try having just ONE player in midfielder attempting to win the ball when we're not in possession, whilst at the same time totally hamstringing your most dynamic midfielder in the process?
Ok then, if that's what you want ...
It is what I want. Our dynamic midfielder's dynamism is completely pointless whilst we keep getting turned over. And our defensive midfielder looks absolutely spent. It's called pragmatism and a large dose of it is needed to get us out of this spell. Replace Imbula with Adam, I'm not arsed, just stop Whelan from moving the ball at a snails pace......
That's a different argument, Adam and Allen over Imbula and Allen works slightly better.
But the fact of the matter is, that our dynamic midfielder's dynamism wouldn't be possible if he was charged with the role of protecting his centre backs and maintaing the discipline that such a role requires.
Whelan is looking a pale shadow of his former self but he's still probably the best player available to us to perform that role.
The whole thing is so muddled because Hughes's transfer policy has looked (and is proving to be) very muddled.
He needed to bring in a replacement for Glenn but he's ended up bringing in two players who play in exactly the same position.
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 10, 2016 19:40:05 GMT
The only time we created anything in open play was when Bojan was belatedly introduced. Not true. Imbula played a peach of a ball through to Arnie who had drifted offside in the first half. Pass of the match. It was a thing of beauty
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Disgusted
Sept 10, 2016 19:40:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 19:40:16 GMT
It is what I want. Our dynamic midfielder's dynamism is completely pointless whilst we keep getting turned over. And our defensive midfielder looks absolutely spent. It's called pragmatism and a large dose of it is needed to get us out of this spell. Replace Imbula with Adam, I'm not arsed, just stop Whelan from moving the ball at a snails pace......
That's a different argument, Adam and Allen over Imbula and Allen works slightly better.
But the fact of the matter is, that our dynamic midfielder's dynamism wouldn't be possible if he was charged with the role of protecting his centre backs and maintaing the discipline that such a role requires.
Whelan is looking a pale shadow of his former self but he's still probably the best player available to us to perform that role.
The whole thing is so muddled because Hughes's transfer policy has looked (and is proving to be) very muddled.
He needed to bring in a replacement for Glenn but he's ended up bringing in two players who play in exactly the same position.
And again I maintain Allen and Imbula with Allen sitting would still be preferable to Whelan at the moment (100% for home games if nowt else). Pound for pound Whelan is one of the best signings in our history, but his time hIs time has come regarding him being the weekly fixture in that role. Allen can do it and do it better and the other players might just start shining if they're able to play in the front foot.....
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Disgusted
Sept 10, 2016 19:40:49 GMT
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 10, 2016 19:40:49 GMT
Imbula needs benching Paul, and I'm saying that as a big fan of his, there needs to be a change in that midfield, and indeed if some of the players are starting to think Hughes is losing it then him dropping the record signing will give them all a kick up the arse that none of them are safe if even the record signing is getting benched. We could see a drastic improvement in our performances just by taking Gianelli out of the fold for a couple of games, how that pans out long term I've no idea but it's the short term I'm concerned with at the moment, we need to get out of this hole we're digging ourselves into, and quickly. if he wasn't in such terrible form I would worry about having to upset 1 of imbula or bojan bur imbula is shockingly bad right now and quite simply needs to be dropped for someone we can rely on. Adam and Allen in the middle and bojan ahead of them please. This for me!!! ☝
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 10, 2016 19:42:51 GMT
That's a different argument, Adam and Allen over Imbula and Allen works slightly better.
But the fact of the matter is, that our dynamic midfielder's dynamism wouldn't be possible if he was charged with the role of protecting his centre backs and maintaing the discipline that such a role requires.
Whelan is looking a pale shadow of his former self but he's still probably the best player available to us to perform that role.
The whole thing is so muddled because Hughes's transfer policy has looked (and is proving to be) very muddled.
He needed to bring in a replacement for Glenn but he's ended up bringing in two players who play in exactly the same position.
And again I maintain Allen and Imbula with Allen sitting would still be preferable to Whelan at the moment (100% for home games if nowt else). Pound for pound Whelan is one of the best signings in our history, but his time hIs time has come to be the weekly fixture in that role. Allen can do it and do it better and the other players might just start shining if they're able to play in the front foot.....
But if Allen is sitting, then who is going to put the work rate in and challenge for the ball further up the pitch?
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Disgusted
Sept 10, 2016 19:50:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 19:50:46 GMT
And again I maintain Allen and Imbula with Allen sitting would still be preferable to Whelan at the moment (100% for home games if nowt else). Pound for pound Whelan is one of the best signings in our history, but his time hIs time has come to be the weekly fixture in that role. Allen can do it and do it better and the other players might just start shining if they're able to play in the front foot.....
But if Allen is sitting, then who is going to put the work rate in and challenge for the ball further up the pitch?
We're keeping the ball and more importantly rotating it with pace, let's get on the front foot and start hurting teams at home, not playing like its a training exercise.....
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 10, 2016 19:55:11 GMT
I think Allen expends too much energy chasing lost causes all over the pitch, it could benefit his game to be a little more disciplined in front of the back four with a clear role. There were times today when was right wing one minute then left back, that's no use to anyone. It's an old saying but you defend from front to back and that starts with Bony then Arnie, Shaq etc etc. Clearly defined roles in a structure and not a free for all.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 10, 2016 19:56:06 GMT
But if Allen is sitting, then who is going to put the work rate in and challenge for the ball further up the pitch?
We're keeping the ball and more importantly rotating it with pace, let's get on the front foot and start hurting teams at home, not playing like its a training exercise.....
Right, so nobody then?
I guess that's where we differ ... you think one player in there putting a shift in will be enough, I think we need (at least) two.
Fine, we agree to disagree, no problem chap.
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Disgusted
Sept 10, 2016 19:56:49 GMT
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Post by sportsman on Sept 10, 2016 19:56:49 GMT
It was disgusting he wasn't playing. No it wasn't. He's been really poor. If you're really poor, the chances are you get dropped What unless you're pieters, Cameron, Walters etc?
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Disgusted
Sept 10, 2016 20:02:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 20:02:52 GMT
We're keeping the ball and more importantly rotating it with pace, let's get on the front foot and start hurting teams at home, not playing like its a training exercise.....
Right, so nobody then?
I guess that's where we differ ... you think one player in there putting a shift in will be enough, I think we need (at least) two.
Fine, we agree to disagree, no problem chap.
Yeah if it works at times nobody I guess. I think it's got to the stage where Glenn's importance is massively exaggerated , let's ask questions if the opposition rather than the other way around for a change.....
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Disgusted
Sept 10, 2016 20:04:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 20:04:12 GMT
I think Allen expends too much energy chasing lost causes all over the pitch, it could benefit his game to be a little more disciplined in front of the back four with a clear role. There were times today when was right wing one minute then left back, that's no use to anyone. It's an old saying but you defend from front to back and that starts with Bony then Arnie, Shaq etc etc. Clearly defined roles in a structure and not a free for all. I agree with all of that. He is an asset, but let's get points in the board and players confidence up before we release the shackles.....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 10, 2016 20:11:33 GMT
Right, so nobody then?
I guess that's where we differ ... you think one player in there putting a shift in will be enough, I think we need (at least) two.
Fine, we agree to disagree, no problem chap.
Yeah if it works at times nobody I guess. I think it's got to the stage where Glenn's importance is massively exaggerated , let's ask questions if the opposition rather than the other way around for a change.....
It's not about Glenn's importance (per se) but rather, about having two players (whoever they are) in there, who will put a shift in.
If Imbula could do this, then we wouldn't be having this discussion mate.
If we were Man Citeh or Barcelona and had players of that quality, then we could get away with just the one grafter in there, as the other players would tilt the balance so dramatically that it wouldn't be an issue but we aren't remotely near that level.
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Disgusted
Sept 10, 2016 20:24:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 20:24:38 GMT
Yeah if it works at times nobody I guess. I think it's got to the stage where Glenn's importance is massively exaggerated , let's ask questions if the opposition rather than the other way around for a change.....
It's not about Glenn's importance (per se) but rather, about having two players (whoever they are) in there, who will put a shift in.
If Imbula could do this, then we wouldn't be having this discussion mate.
If we were Man Citeh or Barcelona and had players of that quality, then we could get away with just the one grafter in there, as the other players would tilt the balance so dramatically that it wouldn't be an issue but we aren't remotely near that level.
But we're still getting turned over at home mate an alternative can't actually be any worse at the moment ? It's a shame Muniesa lacks pace as I think we almost have the players to play 3-4-3 with one sitting midfielder despite some on here saying they hate the system. With Bony up top and Shaqiri back for Palace I'm not actually that concerned away from home but whatever the alternative it's got to be time for a change at home....
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Post by stonestokie76 on Sept 10, 2016 20:39:17 GMT
Imbula has to be dropped. A midfielder that does not tackle, does not track runners and has no positional sense. Yes he makes the odd good run, but I am sorry at £18m someone is having a right laugh at our expense. The question is can Hughes drop him?,. Big test for Hughes in terms of getting a midfield to work.
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Post by potterpaul on Sept 11, 2016 5:03:31 GMT
It's that bad at the moment I'd be ruthless and at least try a Adam, Muniesa Allan Midfield. Adam needs to get himself into shape. I'm totally bemused as to why such a good set of players are playing so badly. I'd also seriously consider Pieters position and give that young lad a chance of first team football.
Every time I see Walters name, either on the bench or starting team my expectations drop immediately and each time MH names him my doubts in the manager increases.
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Post by hchpotter on Sept 11, 2016 8:18:07 GMT
What disgusts me is that we've been playing poorly since January and we've had plenty of time to address our weaknesses. In that time we've been handed a huge wedge of cash and we've taken the decision to loan a couple of players, buy a young Egyptian, bring in a goalie considered not good enough for the mighty Derby County, and make just one sound investment in Joe Allen.
Failing to drill a porous, ever-changing defence so that we concede cheap goals week after week is beyond disgusting.
And for the majority of our well paid prima donnas to leg it down the tunnel at the end of the match without acknowledging the remaining supporters shows their complete contempt for the club and its supporters.
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Disgusted
Sept 11, 2016 8:30:27 GMT
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Post by generationex on Sept 11, 2016 8:30:27 GMT
That team and formation was Hughes' attempt at shutting up shop. Frightening.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 11, 2016 8:41:50 GMT
Whelan was far worse than Imbula #scapegoat
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 11, 2016 9:02:53 GMT
It is what I want. Our dynamic midfielder's dynamism is completely pointless whilst we keep getting turned over. And our defensive midfielder looks absolutely spent. It's called pragmatism and a large dose of it is needed to get us out of this spell. Replace Imbula with Adam, I'm not arsed, just stop Whelan from moving the ball at a snails pace......
That's a different argument, Adam and Allen over Imbula and Allen works slightly better.
But the fact of the matter is, that our dynamic midfielder's dynamism wouldn't be possible if he was charged with the role of protecting his centre backs and maintaing the discipline that such a role requires.
Whelan is looking a pale shadow of his former self but he's still probably the best player available to us to perform that role.
The whole thing is so muddled because Hughes's transfer policy has looked (and is proving to be) very muddled.
He needed to bring in a replacement for Glenn but he's ended up bringing in two players who play in exactly the same position.
To be fair to the manager if Allen had been available in January he'd have bought him and wouldn't have signed Imbula. Looks to me that he couldn't resist Allen which is fair enough as he's a better player but the issue now is he's trying to shoehorn both onto the team and it won't work.
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Disgusted
Sept 11, 2016 9:03:35 GMT
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Post by stokecitydom on Sept 11, 2016 9:03:35 GMT
Whelan was far worse than Imbula #scapegoat Exactly, yet again Whelan was very poor but it's Imbula who gets abuse. Different rules seem to apply to different players.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2016 9:09:07 GMT
And again I maintain Allen and Imbula with Allen sitting would still be preferable to Whelan at the moment (100% for home games if nowt else). Pound for pound Whelan is one of the best signings in our history, but his time hIs time has come to be the weekly fixture in that role. Allen can do it and do it better and the other players might just start shining if they're able to play in the front foot.....
But if Allen is sitting, then who is going to put the work rate in and challenge for the ball further up the pitch?
Something I've had an issue with for a little while is our seeming incapability of getting our forward players to defend 'from the front'. It grates me enormously and I'm genuinely of the mind that it's where all our problems begin.
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Post by oldpotter1950 on Sept 11, 2016 9:12:33 GMT
joe allen must be regretting signing for stoke now ,looking at how we are playing , no passion , no skill no idea. hughes must sort it out NOW.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Sept 11, 2016 9:14:49 GMT
I was 'disgusted' they never gave Sobi a go
What is the point of him being here?
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Disgusted
Sept 11, 2016 9:18:08 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 11, 2016 9:18:08 GMT
Bojan is a genius but also a luxury and when we are being tonked week in week out he's no use. Big but though he is some player so you have to decide if he warrants a place. On current form he's no worse than what we have on show at the moment. Makes you wonder why Hughes started him in the first game if he's a luxury. He needs to be played in his correct position again in a 4231 behind Bony playing him out wide isn't the solution but a better option than JW
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 11, 2016 9:22:27 GMT
Makes you wonder why Hughes started him in the first game if he's a luxury. He needs to be played in his correct position again in a 4231 behind Bony If Hughes doesn't start with this against Palace (and the associated dropping of Imbula) it will confirm to me that he has completely lost the plot.
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