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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 16:05:01 GMT
Massive shakeup needed. We need some strength in front of our backline that was atrocious from those three. Utterly toyed with.
Geoff Imbula
(Adam, Bojan, Allen, Imbula)
or
Whelan Geoff
(Adam, Bojan, Allen, Imbula)
Can't have bystanders in CM not tracking back, jogging or getting passed by and not slowing down their man. Whelan's possession is atrocious so get him defending only and not playing out. Let Imbula, Allen, Adam or Bojan do it. Can't have those three in at once and expect to not leak goals.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 10, 2016 16:10:08 GMT
I think we need a system change. The players we have are not suited for the way we line up. Bringing Geoff in isn't going to change much in that regard.
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 16:14:21 GMT
I think we need a system change. The players we have are not suited for the way we line up. Bringing Geoff in isn't going to change much in that regard. It doesn't help playing him at RB when he's clearly a CB/ CDM first and foremost especially if Bardsley or Johnson is fit and we keep having these massive holes in front of our CB's. It's not rocket science, there doesn't need to be a system change just a formation balance. Walters should NEVER be RW again for stoke I don't know how Hughes doesn't see this as much as the three in midfield do not work. We add Adam and Bojan and instantly see more shots on target and a slightly better defense. He's not using the players he has effectively in their roles they should be in, not where they want to be. Indi allows us to moved Geoff into midfield just infront of Ryan and Indi if needed and to be fair any sort of CB either Muniesa should be considered too in front of our CB's in defense at the moment were leaking goals 3 a match average! |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 10, 2016 16:15:44 GMT
I think we need a system change. The players we have are not suited for the way we line up. Bringing Geoff in isn't going to change much in that regard. Piss poor if you can't buy players to suit your style. We needed pacy full backs and didn't buy them. No wingers and no defensive midfielders bought either. No one to blame but Hughes, surely? |
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Post by scfc5 on Sept 10, 2016 16:33:15 GMT
Imbula has to go - giving us nothing going forwards or backwards right now. Charlie couldn't do worse.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Sept 10, 2016 16:34:22 GMT
I think we need a system change. The players we have are not suited for the way we line up. Bringing Geoff in isn't going to change much in that regard. It doesn't help playing him at RB when he's clearly a CB/ CDM first and foremost especially if Bardsley or Johnson is fit and we keep having these massive holes in front of our CB's. It's not rocket science, there doesn't need to be a system change just a formation balance. Walters should NEVER be RW again for stoke I don't know how Hughes doesn't see this as much as the three in midfield do not work. We add Adam and Bojan and instantly see more shots on target and a slightly better defense. He's not using the players he has effectively in their roles they should be in, not where they want to be. Indi allows us to moved Geoff into midfield just infront of Ryan and Indi if needed and to be fair any sort of CB either Muniesa should be considered too in front of our CB's in defense at the moment were leaking goals 3 a match average! He's not a first choice right back, but he's not a first choice midfielder either. His preferred position is CB, but he hasn't been able to get a run of matches there except the beginning of last season while Shawcross was out. I'll admit he looked good in a midfield three with Whelan and afellay, when we did the false 9 thing for a couple games, but it's not like cameron can solve our deficiencies there at the moment. If he does replace one of them it has to be Whelan for me, who is showing his age, but Cameron is not much younger and is less consistent. I think we should try 4411, or 4-5-1, with two centre mids (Allen and Imbula) and bojan in behind bony. Allen and Imbula are not as good defensively as Whelan or Cameron, but if we have the fullbacks stay home and use our left and right midfielders for width instead of the focal point of attack, the system will allow us to be more solid defensively as a team. |
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 10, 2016 16:34:26 GMT
I think Adam has eaten half of them.
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 16:38:15 GMT
Imbula has to go - giving us nothing going forwards or backwards right now. Charlie couldn't do worse. Whelan and Allen have had as much production to be honest. Imbula was better upfront today, but far too removed from the defensive side. Allen clearly offers more going forward than defensively and for me, Whelan is past being an every match starter at CDM. He just is not athletic enough anymore and doesn't have the passing range of Allen or Imbula but has more defensive qualities. Were extremely out of equilibrium and balance in the midfield. Adam, Muniesa or Geoff can tip it either direction more defense or offense but something needs to be done. Fast! Allen, Imbula and Whelan doesn't work. Never has really with any semblance of an injury in our side. The scales are tipped. |
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 16:44:57 GMT
It doesn't help playing him at RB when he's clearly a CB/ CDM first and foremost especially if Bardsley or Johnson is fit and we keep having these massive holes in front of our CB's. It's not rocket science, there doesn't need to be a system change just a formation balance. Walters should NEVER be RW again for stoke I don't know how Hughes doesn't see this as much as the three in midfield do not work. We add Adam and Bojan and instantly see more shots on target and a slightly better defense. He's not using the players he has effectively in their roles they should be in, not where they want to be. Indi allows us to moved Geoff into midfield just infront of Ryan and Indi if needed and to be fair any sort of CB either Muniesa should be considered too in front of our CB's in defense at the moment were leaking goals 3 a match average! He's not a first choice right back, but he's not a first choice midfielder either. His preferred position is CB, but he hasn't been able to get a run of matches there except the beginning of last season while Shawcross was out. I'll admit he looked good in a midfield three with Whelan and afellay, when we did the false 9 thing for a couple games, but it's not like cameron can solve our deficiencies there at the moment. If he does replace one of them it has to be Whelan for me, who is showing his age, but Cameron is not much younger and is less consistent. I think we should try 4411, or 4-5-1, with two centre mids (Allen and Imbula) and bojan in behind bony. Allen and Imbula are not as good defensively as Whelan or Cameron, but if we have the fullbacks stay home and use our left and right midfielders for width instead of the focal point of attack, the system will allow us to be more solid defensively as a team. This. The midfield is tipped too offensively and left with only Whelan in the center who doesn't have the range or dribbling ability to make it work and like you said he is showing his age. Problem is Cameron has never been able to have a run at CDM in our side because of our horrific injuries month after month. Soon as Johnson or Bardsley is fit though, Geoff should be considered to sit in front of Indi who clearly was solid (more so than Ryan) in that match in a 4-5-1 with either Whelan or Allen either side of him. We need to introduce another defender in the midfield or just behind it. Imbula isn't defensive enough to cover any CB for me, Whelan's getting on and Allen doesn't have the defensive qualities. Imbula should be a CM only for me going forward with someone covering him from behind. He is worthless in our current setup. |
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 10, 2016 17:03:24 GMT
Only thing for me is to go back to 4231 and play Adam with Allen in the 2.
By playing Adam you're making the other team think more about us as an attacking force which could push them back a bit. Part of the reason Spurs got forward so easiliy today was that they didn't need to worry about us breaking with Whelan in midfield and Walters on the wing.
Best form of defence is to attack. Charlie would enable us to do that. We could even have a 433 with him, Allen and Imbula. Wasn't he at his best for Blackpool in a 3.
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 17:06:14 GMT
Only thing for me is to go back to 4231 and play Adam with Allen in the 2. By playing Adam you're making the other team think more about us as an attacking force which could push them back a bit. Part of the reason Spurs got forward so easiliy today was that they didn't need to worry about us breaking with Whelan in midfield and Walters on the wing. Best form of defence is to attack. Charlie would enable us to do that. We could even have a 433 with him, Allen and Imbula. Wasn't he at his best for Blackpool in a 3. This, or the one I've mentioned for a more defensive look, something needs to take place and soon. Hughes can't have a no show midfield for another match and defend his selections or setup... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2016 17:07:28 GMT
Just fuck Whelan off
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Post by potts348 on Sept 10, 2016 17:14:34 GMT
Whelan. The greatest fucking pretender of the lot. Master of it.
The Whelan game plan.
-fill boots with lead
-keep myself free at all times
-give defence no protection
-be in the wrong position and Mark space
-make sure I make 40 completely pointless superfluous 4 yard passes
-give out to some ppl, point lots, go to gaffer for a chat
-get a yellow
-clap fans after.
10/10 performance although we lost 4 nil.
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Post by Plave on Sept 10, 2016 18:03:33 GMT
Can we finally dispel the myth that Whelan offers anything defensively to the team?
Doesn't have the pace to press or cover
Tackling is average at best
Turgidly slow with the ball (something we're quick to slag the rest of the midfield off about)
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 10, 2016 18:04:49 GMT
Who watched that game today and thought 'I know the problem - not enough Geoff Cameron!'
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 18:14:21 GMT
Who watched that game today and thought 'I know the problem - not enough Geoff Cameron!' It clearly is never again Walters on the right, Geoff at RB and Whelan in defensive midfield... Because that's worked for 4 nil yet again and this time got Ryan to come out and try to do it himself but was caught out. Perhaps we should put our most athletic defenders in their positions, if we can have fit fullbacks for more than one week? Idk because the oatcake still thinks a 32 year old CDM caught on the ball who can't dribble out of trouble or pass is the key.  |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 10, 2016 18:16:11 GMT
Who watched that game today and thought 'I know the problem - not enough Geoff Cameron!' It clearly is never again Walters on the right, Geoff at RB and Whelan in defensive midfield... Because that's worked for 4 nil yet again and this time got Ryan to come out and try to do it himself but was caught out. Perhaps we should put our most athletic defenders in their positions, if we can have fit fullbacks for more than one week? Idk because the oatcake still thinks a 32 year old CDM caught on the ball who can't dribble out of trouble or pass is the key. Whelan increasingly looks finished but Geoff (a veritable spring chicken at 31) has demonstrated he isn't the answer comprehensively. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 10, 2016 18:19:00 GMT
Who watched that game today and thought 'I know the problem - not enough Geoff Cameron!' What did you think about Walters contribution towards stopping their much more conservative left back bombing forward? Sobhi should have started!  |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 10, 2016 18:20:44 GMT
Who watched that game today and thought 'I know the problem - not enough Geoff Cameron!' What did you think about Walters contribution towards stopping their much more conservative left back bombing forward? Sobhi should have started! Well given that I repeatedly said during our discussion Dave that I wouldn't play Walters and that if Rose wasn't playing Id have chucked Sobhi on, I'll leave you to work on that thorny question yourself. |
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 18:22:20 GMT
It clearly is never again Walters on the right, Geoff at RB and Whelan in defensive midfield... Because that's worked for 4 nil yet again and this time got Ryan to come out and try to do it himself but was caught out. Perhaps we should put our most athletic defenders in their positions, if we can have fit fullbacks for more than one week? Idk because the oatcake still thinks a 32 year old CDM caught on the ball who can't dribble out of trouble or pass is the key. Whelan increasingly looks finished but Geoff (a veritable spring chicken at 31) has demonstrated he isn't the answer comprehensively. He hasn't had a game in CDM in ages and at this point trying to equate his filling in for RB after Johnson and Bardsleys glass legs is some stretch. That wankfest of a midfield today showing no defensive qualities at all need a more athletic spring chicken at that, who can dribble the ball, and pass centrally. It would be miles better than a 32 wank Whelan game after game. At this point I'd even throw in a cold Muniesa for a birth at CDM Whelan that bad today and lost possession countless times even for his yellow and let people walk past him with ease and didn't even offer Ryan or even other his teammates anything post 15mins. |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 10, 2016 18:22:35 GMT
Play Muniesa and Cameron there, play Adam and Cameron there, play Muniesa and Adam there, fuck me anything is better than the non-existent entity that is our midfield at the moment.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 10, 2016 18:23:50 GMT
Whelan increasingly looks finished but Geoff (a veritable spring chicken at 31) has demonstrated he isn't the answer comprehensively. He hasn't had a game in CDM in ages and at this point trying to equate his filling in for RB after Johnson and Bardsleys glass legs is some stretch. That wankfest of a midfield today showing no defensive qualities at all need a more athletic spring chicken at that, who can dribble the ball, and pass centrally. It would be miles better than a 32 wank Whelan game after game. At this point I'd even throw in a cold Muniesa for a birth at CDM Whelan that bad today and lost possession countless times even for his yellow and let people walk past him with ease and didn't even offer Ryan or even other his teammates anything post 15mins. Do you want your holding midfielder dribbling? Positional discipline is one of the key aspects of the role and Geoff doesn't have it. Doesn't matter how long it's been since he played there, when he has, more often than not, he hasn't been up to it. |
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 18:24:19 GMT
Who watched that game today and thought 'I know the problem - not enough Geoff Cameron!' What did you think about Walters contribution towards stopping their much more conservative left back bombing forward? Sobhi should have started! Hughes worst selection and gave us an instant handicap but thats what happens when people think Walters or Whelan still offer 90 min starts. |
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 18:25:11 GMT
Play Muniesa and Cameron there, play Adam and Cameron there, play Muniesa and Adam there, fuck me anything is better than the non-existent entity that is our midfield at the moment. I'd consider fucking N'goy even Arnie it's that fucking bad. |
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 18:29:47 GMT
He hasn't had a game in CDM in ages and at this point trying to equate his filling in for RB after Johnson and Bardsleys glass legs is some stretch. That wankfest of a midfield today showing no defensive qualities at all need a more athletic spring chicken at that, who can dribble the ball, and pass centrally. It would be miles better than a 32 wank Whelan game after game. At this point I'd even throw in a cold Muniesa for a birth at CDM Whelan that bad today and lost possession countless times even for his yellow and let people walk past him with ease and didn't even offer Ryan or even other his teammates anything post 15mins. Do you want your holding midfielder dribbling? Positional discipline is one of the key aspects of the role and Geoff doesn't have it. Doesn't matter how long it's been since he played there, when he has, more often than not, he hasn't been up to it. Yes, did you see there's dribble past our midfield countless times? Leaving his position to counter through our entire midfield with ease? I bet you missed Geoff's "positional discipline" at RB when Whelan left the center following alli out to the edge of the box and Son rotated into the space and scored from the spot... Not switching off his man to the defender? Does that not count as discipline? Ryan's look to Glenn said it all, and this time Glenn couldn't spat and point to Imbula or Allen but that is deemed okay week, after 4 nil week. Trog on. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 10, 2016 18:31:16 GMT
Do you want your holding midfielder dribbling? Positional discipline is one of the key aspects of the role and Geoff doesn't have it. Doesn't matter how long it's been since he played there, when he has, more often than not, he hasn't been up to it. Yes, did you see there's dribble past our midfield countless times? Leaving his position to counter through our entire midfield with ease? I bet you missed Geoff's "positional discipline" at RB when Whelan left the center following alli out to the edge of the box and Son rotated into the space and scored from the spot... Not switching off his man to the defender? Does that not count as discipline? Ryan's look to Glenn said it all, and this time Glenn couldn't spat and point to Imbula or Allen but that is deemed okay week, after 4 nil week. Trog on. Why are you trying to turn this into Whelan vs Cameron? They were both shit. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 10, 2016 18:35:15 GMT
What did you think about Walters contribution towards stopping their much more conservative left back bombing forward? Sobhi should have started! Well given that I repeatedly said during our discussion Dave that I wouldn't play Walters and that if Rose wasn't playing Id have chucked Sobhi on, I'll leave you to work on that thorny question yourself. The point being if he can't stop Davies (or even win a header against him) what chance would he have had with rose? |
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Post by TexasPotter on Sept 10, 2016 18:36:24 GMT
Yes, did you see there's dribble past our midfield countless times? Leaving his position to counter through our entire midfield with ease? I bet you missed Geoff's "positional discipline" at RB when Whelan left the center following alli out to the edge of the box and Son rotated into the space and scored from the spot... Not switching off his man to the defender? Does that not count as discipline? Ryan's look to Glenn said it all, and this time Glenn couldn't spat and point to Imbula or Allen but that is deemed okay week, after 4 nil week. Trog on. Why are you trying to turn this into Whelan vs Cameron? They were both shit. So you are ignoring discipline for a certain player that's all I needed to know. One is a starter week after week our midfield gets ran through and the defensive side is non-existant. I don't care if it is Geoff, Muni, Imbula or Allen but don't blame Camerons filling in for our weak as shit fullbacks for Glenn's constant non-existant chicken with it's head cut off no shows week after week this season infront of Ryan and this time Luckily Indi instead of Wolly or Geoff. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 10, 2016 18:36:32 GMT
Well given that I repeatedly said during our discussion Dave that I wouldn't play Walters and that if Rose wasn't playing Id have chucked Sobhi on, I'll leave you to work on that thorny question yourself. The point being if he can't stop Davies (or even win a header against him) what chance would he have had with rose? I didn't want Walters starting against anyone Dave. I wanted Diouf against Rose and Sobhi against Davies. Walters didn't come into it. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 10, 2016 18:37:48 GMT
Why are you trying to turn this into Whelan vs Cameron? They were both shit. So you are ignoring discipline for a certain player that's all I needed to know. One is a starter week after week our midfield gets ran through and the defensive side is non-existant. I don't care if it is Geoff, Muni, Imbula or Allen but don't blame Camerons filling in for our weak as shit fullbacks for Glenn's constant non-existant chicken with it's head cut off no shows week after week this season infront of Ryan and this time Luckily Indi instead of Wolly or Geoff. Anyone who starts ahead of Whelan has to be an improvement on him. Cameron has consistently showed he isn't. |
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