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Post by milky on Sept 4, 2016 13:00:11 GMT
Something Tone pointed out above I didnt realise: “I think this was our 85th game in the Premier League and in all those we’ve had only three penalties.” Was that true though? He had a habit of making shit up. I can think of 6 in our first season top of my head. Lawrence v Villa Fuller v Hull Beattie v Portsmouth Fuller v Arsenal And the 2 at home to Spurs where we scored one...(Higginbotham?) and where Ric somehow hit both posts.
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Post by djduncanjames on Sept 4, 2016 13:17:00 GMT
Fucking Pulis. Figures he'd lie
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 4, 2016 13:34:57 GMT
Was that true though? He had a habit of making shit up. I can think of 6 in our first season top of my head. Lawrence v Villa Fuller v Hull Beattie v Portsmouth Fuller v Arsenal And the 2 at home to Spurs where we scored one...(Higginbotham?) and where Ric somehow hit both posts. Cheers! So that's 6 in 38 games then at least. He never did let the truth get in the way!
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Post by hearttohartshill on Sept 4, 2016 14:52:51 GMT
Do you not understand the meaning of quotation "I'm a massive retard" carpslayer. You must've said it then? I certainly believe he said it
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 16:00:03 GMT
As if anyone following Stoke City these last few years would be remotely surprised by such 'revelations'
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 18:04:55 GMT
Agreed Tone!
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 4, 2016 18:26:37 GMT
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Post by flea79 on Sept 4, 2016 18:51:56 GMT
Been saying for years that it's corrupt and it wouldn't surprise me if the premier league turned out to be staged like an episode of wwe! There is no way that all the drama on a weekly basis just happens! It must be engineered! The whole Jose vs doctor thing last season was laughable!
I trusted nothing I saw at the olympics this year I really hope that the sport I live and breathe isn't going this way!
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Post by rawli on Sept 4, 2016 19:00:28 GMT
A few years ago Gary Neville Scythed down Matty Etherington. It was a clear bookable offence, Matty skinned him and was away Neville was already on a yellow and the ref (anyone remember him?) didn't send him off. Neville said himself he got away with one. Biggest fix I've ever seen in a game! Edit: Glad someone else brought it up, haven't read the whole thread sorry And fergie subbed him shortly after as he was a cert for another card And to rub it in they all had a fucking laugh about it and those cockney bastards sang 'We're Man United, we'll do what we want'. How must a referee feel when even the beneficiaries of your spinelessness are laughing at you.
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Post by flea79 on Sept 4, 2016 19:02:43 GMT
And fergie subbed him shortly after as he was a cert for another card And to rub it in they all had a fucking laugh about it and those cockney bastards sang 'We're Man United, we'll do what we want'. How must a referee feel when even the beneficiaries of your spinelessness are laughing at you. Probably pretty good when they have a very good wage for it and probably a brown envelope in the biscuit tin at full time and a new car on the drive at home!
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Post by Mr Jon on Sept 4, 2016 23:11:59 GMT
And fergie subbed him shortly after as he was a cert for another card And to rub it in they all had a fucking laugh about it and those cockney bastards sang 'We're Man United, we'll do what we want'. How must a referee feel when even the beneficiaries of your spinelessness are laughing at you.
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Post by Mr Jon on Sept 4, 2016 23:14:02 GMT
And fergie subbed him shortly after as he was a cert for another card And to rub it in they all had a fucking laugh about it and those cockney bastards sang 'We're Man United, we'll do what we want'. How must a referee feel when even the beneficiaries of your spinelessness are laughing at you. I think that the ref was that well known Stoke hating twat called Ande Marriner 😣
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Post by Stoke711 on Sept 5, 2016 8:07:08 GMT
And fergie subbed him shortly after as he was a cert for another card And to rub it in they all had a fucking laugh about it and those cockney bastards sang 'We're Man United, we'll do what we want'. How must a referee feel when even the beneficiaries of your spinelessness are laughing at you. Pretty sure I remember reading the ref told Fergie to take off Neville at half time.
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 5, 2016 8:13:48 GMT
I remember that game we were in Milan and it was televised and we watched it in that Stoke pub and if it's the same game N'Zonzi elbowed Ryan about 3 times in that match and if Halsey says there was nothing in it he's gone down in my estimation.
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Post by rawli on Sept 5, 2016 8:20:38 GMT
And to rub it in they all had a fucking laugh about it and those cockney bastards sang 'We're Man United, we'll do what we want'. How must a referee feel when even the beneficiaries of your spinelessness are laughing at you. Pretty sure I remember reading the ref told Fergie to take off Neville at half time. Hope not - wasn't the foul he should have gone for committed in the second half? Might well be wrong as all reason had gone by that time.
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 5, 2016 8:27:39 GMT
When it comes to claims that refs are biased and favour the big clubs I have only ever seen anecdotal evidence on here, if people want to make such claims they should be prepared to back it up with hard facts and statistics.
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Post by Stoke711 on Sept 5, 2016 8:36:27 GMT
Pretty sure I remember reading the ref told Fergie to take off Neville at half time. Hope not - wasn't the foul he should have gone for committed in the second half? Might well be wrong as all reason had gone by that time. Both were in 1st half. 2nd was around 40th min. He got subbed at ht for Wes Brown.
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Post by milky on Sept 5, 2016 8:44:21 GMT
When it comes to claims that refs are biased and favour the big clubs I have only ever seen anecdotal evidence on here, if people want to make such claims they should be prepared to back it up with hard facts and statistics. There's one being discussed on this very thread Geoff. Where Andre Marriner shit out of giving Gary Neville a second yellow just before half time for hacking down Etherington,then "advised "Ferguson to substitute him at half time.This is fact based on what G.Neville said himself after ! So if that isn't an example of big club bias what is ?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 5, 2016 8:51:21 GMT
Hope not - wasn't the foul he should have gone for committed in the second half? Might well be wrong as all reason had gone by that time. Both were in 1st half. 2nd was around 40th min. He got subbed at ht for Wes Brown. Not only were they both in the first half, they were both in the same spot on the pitch to within a few feet of each other. You'd be hard pressed to tell which incident was which on the replay apart from the fact that one got a yellow and one didn't. I'm sure I also heard that the ref suggested to Fergie that Neville be subbed at half time. If that actually happened then that is pretty much an admission that the ref bottled the second decision, realised it and attempted to make sure he didn't have to make a third decision in the second half. This is what pisses me off about the rules on interviews. Every player on the pitch and both managers are expected to do interviews if asked (other than the special Fergie BBC rule) yet the officials are not even ALLOWED to be interviewed. If they were interviewed after games then the decision not to give Neville a second yellow would have been very hard for the ref to justify - and we might eventually see such suspiciously stupid (or biased?)decisions become less common.
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Post by rawli on Sept 5, 2016 8:51:22 GMT
Hope not - wasn't the foul he should have gone for committed in the second half? Might well be wrong as all reason had gone by that time. Both were in 1st half. 2nd was around 40th min. He got subbed at ht for Wes Brown. Stand corrected. As I said, the red mist had descended.
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 5, 2016 9:03:38 GMT
The incident being discussed on here milky is basically anecdotal, we need real evidence such as number of sendings off, penalties, bookings etc, every fan in the country can quote incidents that they think went against their team, that proves very little.
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 5, 2016 9:08:52 GMT
The incident being discussed on here milky is basically anecdotal, we need real evidence such as number of sendings off, penalties, bookings etc, every fan in the country can quote incidents that they think went against their team, that proves very little. How many penalties have you seen for shirt pulling in the box?
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 5, 2016 10:06:34 GMT
The Shawcross issue is interesting Squeester but there are two issues for me. Firstly in the two games I can remember i.e. Swansea and Manchester City, while it's true Ryan was penalized for holding/shirt pulling so were Swansea and City players as well. The second problem for Ryan is that he's always tended to do it and so you could equally ask how many times has he actually got away with it?
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Post by milky on Sept 5, 2016 10:10:29 GMT
The incident being discussed on here milky is basically anecdotal, we need real evidence such as number of sendings off, penalties, bookings etc, every fan in the country can quote incidents that they think went against their team, that proves very little. So you don't accept that as big club bias then ? Incidentally from the same referee that "didn't see "the Aguero incident. What about what Ryan said about the referee cozying up to Chelsea players and addressing them by their Christian names but Stoke players were addressed by surname or number ? Do you think that's right ?
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 5, 2016 10:23:12 GMT
There's plenty of things that are wrong in todays game milky including inconsistent decisions by officials. If it's true though that there is big club bias and refs are in awe of star players then we have to introduce video technology because the game can only function properly if the neutrality of officials is not in doubt. All I'm saying in this thread is that I have seen no stats that prove beyond any doubt that refs are biased or worse still corrupt.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Sept 5, 2016 10:48:45 GMT
There's plenty of things that are wrong in todays game milky including inconsistent decisions by officials. If it's true though that there is big club bias and refs are in awe of star players then we have to introduce video technology because the game can only function properly if the neutrality of officials is not in doubt. All I'm saying in this thread is that I have seen no stats that prove beyond any doubt that refs are biased or worse still corrupt. I doubt we'll see much evidence of corruption (in the sense of money changing hands in exchange for favourable treatment) because I don't think English referees are corrupt in that sense - certainly nothing on the scale we have seen in some foreign leagues in recent years. But bias is a different kettle of fish. For example - a national newspaper a few years back, in the days when Fergie managed Man Utd, produced some stats showing the amount of time added on at the end of Man Utd home games (over several seasons) when they were losing at the end of 90 minutes compared to games where they were drawing or winning at the end of 90 minutes. The stats were a real eye opener! Not that they prove bias but you'd scratch your head to think of how they could reflect anything other than bias in favour of Man Utd.
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 5, 2016 10:57:02 GMT
I agree Lakeland that sort of analysis of injury time in Man.U. games is worrying although as you also say not absolute proof of bias.
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 5, 2016 11:11:53 GMT
The Shawcross issue is interesting Squeester but there are two issues for me. Firstly in the two games I can remember i.e. Swansea and Manchester City, while it's true Ryan was penalized for holding/shirt pulling so were Swansea and City players as well. The second problem for Ryan is that he's always tended to do it and so you could equally ask how many times has he actually got away with it? John Terry Martin and Skertle to name a few were/are just as bad at shirt pulling as Ryan and in Terry's case worse in my opinion, it was also pointed out in the Manchester Derby or it may have been UTD V Chelsea the day after the Swansea incident sky picked up on 3 or 4 incidents of shirt pulling (some one on here had them as their sig) exactly the same as Ryans and nothing was done. I do agree that all fans will point out decisions that have gone against them but i firmly believe the top teams get away with more, United and Neville has been mentioned, Ronaldo and Wilko also in that game Rooney throwing elbows into Abbys face right in front of the linesmen went unpunished.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 5, 2016 11:46:00 GMT
I agree Lakeland that sort of analysis of injury time in Man.U. games is worrying although as you also say not absolute proof of bias. I do not totally disagree with what you suggest Geoff but wonder what you would consider what suffichant proff Of bias would be
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Post by milky on Sept 5, 2016 12:11:12 GMT
There's plenty of things that are wrong in todays game milky including inconsistent decisions by officials. If it's true though that there is big club bias and refs are in awe of star players then we have to introduce video technology because the game can only function properly if the neutrality of officials is not in doubt. All I'm saying in this thread is that I have seen no stats that prove beyond any doubt that refs are biased or worse still corrupt. I doubt we'll see much evidence of corruption (in the sense of money changing hands in exchange for favourable treatment) because I don't think English referees are corrupt in that sense - certainly nothing on the scale we have seen in some foreign leagues in recent years. But bias is a different kettle of fish. For example - a national newspaper a few years back, in the days when Fergie managed Man Utd, produced some stats showing the amount of time added on at the end of Man Utd home games (over several seasons) when they were losing at the end of 90 minutes compared to games where they were drawing or winning at the end of 90 minutes. The stats were a real eye opener! Not that they prove bias but you'd scratch your head to think of how they could reflect anything other than bias in favour of Man Utd. During their period of dominance under Ferguson did they not go years without having a penalty awarded against them at Old Trafford? I seem to remember when they actually conceded the first one for ages there was mayhem with most of the Man Utd players surrounding the referee in disbelief! Ditto Liverpool at Anfield when they ruled the roost during the 80s. Big club bias isn't new but I think it's worse than its ever been.
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