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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 25, 2016 18:52:34 GMT
Am I just a big dense bastard who has always been in the wrong or did certain words used to have 'an' before them rather than 'a'? For example... That was such an Historic event. That was such a Historic event. Which of those is correct? I've always thought it was 'an', whereas nowadays I see 'a' everywhere instead. (While I'm at it, is the 'H' on Historic correct or should it be 'h'?) Another example... What an iconic moment. What a iconic moment. Again which is correct? I've always believed it to be 'an', but everywhere I look nowadays it's 'a'. (I don't just mean Social Media either, you see it in National Newspapers & such like) Have I been wrong for all these years or has language changed & not told me?  |
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Aug 25, 2016 19:05:29 GMT
I always thought it was 'an' before words beginning with a vowel,'a' before words beginning with a consonant as a rule of thumb?
But then i did spend a lot of time staring out of the classroom window watching the older girls having games' lessons,so i'm not sure.......
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Post by yeokel on Aug 25, 2016 19:08:53 GMT
"That was such an Historic event."
It shouldn't have a capital H and, in fact, the h would be silent in that sentence. So 'an' is correct.
"What a iconic moment."
Couldn't possibly right. An, every time for this one.
All in my humble opinion of course.
(and I did get a 'B' in Eng' Lang' O Level, so I know what I'm talking about!)
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 25, 2016 19:12:02 GMT
"That was such an Historic event." It shouldn't have a capital H and, in fact, the h would be silent in that sentence. So 'an' is correct. "What a iconic moment." Couldn't possibly right. An, every time for this one. All in my humble opinion of course. (and I did get a 'B' in Eng' Lang' O Level, so I know what I'm talking about!) What a silent 'H' in history? You're 'aving a larf gav. |
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Post by Skankmonkey on Aug 25, 2016 19:14:36 GMT
Generally
"a" before a consonant - a buzzard, a car etc
"an" before a vowel - an oatcake, an elephant etc
Special cases
"an" before a silent h - an heir, an hour, an honour etc
"a" before an aspirated h - a happy twat, a horse, a hero etc.
Words beginning with "u" depend on pronunciation
an upper, an ulterior motive, an umberella etc
a unicorn, a uniform, a university etc
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 25, 2016 19:14:47 GMT
My kingdom for an horse?
There's a difference between conversational and the written word.
Not sure mesen anymore how it works, even more confused with a healthy dose of Potterish chucked in.
There must be vowel and 'h' rules, not really too fussed but I'd welcome a useful mnemomic.
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Post by samba :) on Aug 25, 2016 19:18:13 GMT
Words starting with a vowel sound are an i think
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 19:33:29 GMT
If a vowel follows, it is "an" otherwise it should be "a". "H" is a tricky one for some, but as it is always silent in Potteries English then it should be "an".
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Post by Linx on Aug 25, 2016 19:40:24 GMT
'a' is used before nouns beginning with consonants; 'an' is used before nouns beginning with vowels.
The exception is for some nouns that begin with an 'h', but here's where it is a bit inconsistent. It depends on how silent the 'h' is, so in hotel, for example, with it being originally a French word with a silent 'h', it tends to have an 'a' before it because it is correctly pronounced ''otel'.
This is the basic rule I have stuck by and disseminated to my students over thirty two years of teaching English.
Before any smart alecs rush in to alert the teacher to any typo's, my excuse is a litre of 6.8% ABV beer, fogged up contact lenses, and 37 degree heat while trying to clumsily type on an iPad in the dark.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 25, 2016 20:26:57 GMT
Generally "a" before a consonant - a buzzard, a car etc "an" before a vowel - an oatcake, an elephant etc Special cases "an" before a silent h - an heir, an hour, an honour etc "a" before an aspirated h - a happy twat, a horse, a hero etc. Words beginning with "u" depend on pronunciation an upper, an ulterior motive, an umberella etc a unicorn, a uniform, a university etc They're not really special cases - rather than the actual letter the word begins with, it depends on the sound. It's "a" before a consonant sound, and "an" before a vowel sound. Hence silent "h" words are preceded by "an" because they begin with a vowel sound, and words like university are preceded by "a" because they begin with a consonant sound (y). |
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 25, 2016 20:28:45 GMT
A notel
A nouse
A nandbag
A nexagon
A nippopotamus
A nistoric
Silent h my arse.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 23:05:32 GMT
an napple
a norange
a nana
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Post by elystokie on Aug 25, 2016 23:18:04 GMT
Generally "a" before a consonant - a buzzard, a car etc "an" before a vowel - an oatcake, an elephant etc Special cases "an" before a silent h - an heir, an hour, an honour etc "a" before an aspirated h - a happy twat, a horse, a hero etc. Words beginning with "u" depend on pronunciation an upper, an ulterior motive, an umberella etc a unicorn, a uniform, a university etc This, exactly what I'd have said, spot on. As for our equine friend, I'd have said the correct pronunciation is 'A horse' but the 'h' is dropped in this case. |
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Post by Skankmonkey on Aug 26, 2016 3:46:10 GMT
Generally "a" before a consonant - a buzzard, a car etc "an" before a vowel - an oatcake, an elephant etc Special cases "an" before a silent h - an heir, an hour, an honour etc "a" before an aspirated h - a happy twat, a horse, a hero etc. Words beginning with "u" depend on pronunciation an upper, an ulterior motive, an umberella etc a unicorn, a uniform, a university etc This, exactly what I'd have said, spot on. As for our equine friend, I'd have said the correct pronunciation is 'A horse' but the 'h' is dropped in this case. Ta. I think PotterLog has it down pat about 3 posts back. |
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 26, 2016 6:30:44 GMT
A norse?
Don't be daft
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Post by Linx on Aug 26, 2016 6:58:43 GMT
A notel A nouse A nandbag A nexagon A nippopotamus A nistoric Silent h my arse. Which is why, out of all those examples, it is only the first one that regularly has 'an' before it - for the reason I stated in my post. But, technically, even that should be 'a hotel'; it's just how it's developed due to its pronounciation. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2016 10:45:39 GMT
A notel A nouse A nandbag A nexagon A nippopotamus A nistoric Silent h my arse. Which is why, out of all those examples, it is only the first one that regularly has 'an' before it - for the reason I stated in my post. But, technically, even that should be 'a hotel'; it's just how it's developed due to its pronounciation. This for me
An Hotel A House A Handbag A Hippopotamus An Historic
With no dropped "H" sounds at all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2016 11:09:00 GMT
Generally "a" before a consonant - a buzzard, a car etc "an" before a vowel - an oatcake, an elephant etc Special cases "an" before a silent h - an heir, an hour, an honour etc "a" before an aspirated h - a happy twat, a horse, a hero etc. Words beginning with "u" depend on pronunciation an upper, an ulterior motive, an umberella etc a unicorn, a uniform, a university etc Blimey Skank....Have you swallowed An dictionary.... Respect for an highly informative hanswer... |
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Post by Skankmonkey on Aug 26, 2016 12:15:41 GMT
Generally "a" before a consonant - a buzzard, a car etc "an" before a vowel - an oatcake, an elephant etc Special cases "an" before a silent h - an heir, an hour, an honour etc "a" before an aspirated h - a happy twat, a horse, a hero etc. Words beginning with "u" depend on pronunciation an upper, an ulterior motive, an umberella etc a unicorn, a uniform, a university etc Blimey Skank....Have you swallowed An dictionary.... Respect for an highly informative hanswer... Ta mate It was an pleasure to be of use. I think Eastenders was on. |
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Post by Beardy200 on Aug 26, 2016 13:17:05 GMT
A notel A nouse A nandbag A nexagon A nippopotamus A nistoric Silent h my arse. Which is why, out of all those examples, it is only the first one that regularly has 'an' before it - for the reason I stated in my post. But, technically, even that should be 'a hotel'; it's just how it's developed due to its pronounciation. I've heard all of the above due to pronunciation but they're still all wrong |
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Post by Linx on Aug 26, 2016 13:48:49 GMT
Which is why, out of all those examples, it is only the first one that regularly has 'an' before it - for the reason I stated in my post. But, technically, even that should be 'a hotel'; it's just how it's developed due to its pronounciation. I've heard all of the above due to pronunciation but they're still all wrong Agreed |
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 26, 2016 14:24:16 GMT
Some "an" words genuinely do come from this etymology, "orange" being one of them. If you look at the roots of the word orange (Arabic), all the original words began with "n", e.g. naranj... in English (and French) the word was rebracketed to begin with the vowel, in English as "an orange" rather than "a norange". In Spanish the "n" was retained, so the modern word for orange in Spanish is "naranja". Other examples are apron (once "a napron"), umpire (a "noumpere" in Middle English) and adder ("naddre"). It also happens the other way round, so "a newt" was once "an ewt" and "your nickname" was once "thine eke name". |
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Post by Linx on Aug 26, 2016 22:36:52 GMT
Some "an" words genuinely do come from this etymology, "orange" being one of them. If you look at the roots of the word orange (Arabic), all the original words began with "n", e.g. naranj... in English (and French) the word was rebracketed to begin with the vowel, in English as "an orange" rather than "a norange". In Spanish the "n" was retained, so the modern word for orange in Spanish is "naranja". Other examples are apron (once "a napron"), umpire (a "noumpere" in Middle English) and adder ("naddre"). It also happens the other way round, so "a newt" was once "an ewt" and "your nickname" was once "thine eke name". Quality stuff, Potterlog. It's posts like this that make me love The Oatcake. Who says Stokies are thick? |
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