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Post by riponstokie on Jul 28, 2016 22:46:53 GMT
I have no doubt Glenn Whelan will play a serious part in the coming season. However, with him getting no younger, and with no out and out holding midfielder on the horizon, I am curious to question whether Hughes will push for a plainly attacking team, without someone who's only responsibility is to protect the back 4. Although Allen may be a possibility for that position, I simply don't think that is his game, as he is more of a cultured ball player, than a disciplined, defensive minded midfielder who breaks up play. So I thought with our struggle to defend, perhaps Hughes would slowly build towards a team to simply defend by attacking, with ball playing midfielders to control and dictate games, thus preventing the opposition getting at our defence. Obviously this is all hypothetical, however with what appears to be our reluctance/inability to buy (or perhaps unavailability of) a quality, out and out sitting midfielder to replace Glenn, perhaps over the next few months we will try to sculpt a new manor of midfield? Could and probably would leave is completely open, but thought it would be interesting to see what people think on a future without Whelan and with more technically more gifted players like Imbula and Allen.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 22:51:16 GMT
Have two systems - two (Allen/Imbula to start, with Charlie/Glenn to sub) in a 4231/442/4411 and three (Allen/Imbula/Glenn) for 433/451 would do for me
Unsure re: this 352 idea and midfield - depends on the striker choices in the 2
I suppose we'll have to see if we get overrun. Depends on Imbula's defensive contributions
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Post by riponstokie on Jul 28, 2016 22:56:27 GMT
Have two systems - two (Allen/Imbula to start, with Charlie/Glenn to sub) in a 4231/442/4411 and three (Allen/Imbula/Glenn) for 433/451 would do for me Unsure re: this 352 idea and midfield - depends on the striker choices in the 2 I suppose we'll have to see if we get overrun. Depends on Imbula's defensive contributions I think, as you touched upon, Imbula will have a massive influence on how we play. If he develops a disciplined defensive side to his game, he could slot alongside Allen and we could be laughing all the way to Europe. However, if he doesn't have that defensive capability, he could almost become a luxury player, as Toure was at Man City at times, who we perhaps couldn't afford to have in the team. |
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SCFC12
Academy Starlet
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Post by SCFC12 on Jul 29, 2016 0:10:46 GMT
A lot of teams play like this. The only reason Glenn never goes very far forward is because he hasn't got the pace to get back quick enough and I reckon imbula defensive side will improve. West ham play a system with 2 box to box players and without a holding midfielder often.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 29, 2016 0:34:08 GMT
There's been several {failed} attempts at replacing Whelan, off top of me head, Wilson, Cameron, Sidwell, Van Ginkel...
Glenn's seen 'em off, I hope he's got at least another season in him.
In the early part of the season when we've been lukewarm, and left kicking ourselves, I'd like to see both the metronomic Whelan and Joe Allen playing together in a mopping up/filling in gaps/then driving forward midfield pair, left and right, kind of way.
A defensive base to compensate for full backs or even centre backs driving forward.
And a launch pad for attacks.
Not really fussed if that's in a 4231, 433 or 352.
Terriers in the middle to stop us from being over run.
I'd build the best team from that.
Imbula or Bojan, or both in front of them.
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Post by kustokie on Jul 29, 2016 1:09:44 GMT
Have two systems - two (Allen/Imbula to start, with Charlie/Glenn to sub) in a 4231/442/4411 and three (Allen/Imbula/Glenn) for 433/451 would do for me Unsure re: this 352 idea and midfield - depends on the striker choices in the 2 I suppose we'll have to see if we get overrun. Depends on Imbula's defensive contributions I think, as you touched upon, Imbula will have a massive influence on how we play. If he develops a disciplined defensive side to his game, he could slot alongside Allen and we could be laughing all the way to Europe. However, if he doesn't have that defensive capability, he could almost become a luxury player, as Toure was at Man City at times, who we perhaps couldn't afford to have in the team. That's not going to happen because Imubulla has already failed at that position at Porto, which is why they sold him. It will be a blood bath against top teams running straight at Wollsheidt and Shawcross without someone in front of them. Everyone was excited at the thought of signing Allen (including me) and the resigning of Arni. However, the facts remain, our most pressing needs are still a back-up/long-term replacement for Whelan, a RB and a CB. |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 29, 2016 1:14:17 GMT
There's been several {failed} attempts at replacing Whelan, off top of me head, Wilson, Cameron, Sidwell, Van Ginkel... Glenn's seen 'em off, I hope he's got at least another season in him. In the early part of the season when we've been lukewarm, and left kicking ourselves, I'd like to see both the metronomic Whelan and Joe Allen playing together in a mopping up/filling in gaps/then driving forward midfield pair, left and right, kind of way. A defensive base to compensate for full backs or even centre backs driving forward. And a launch pad for attacks. Not really fussed if that's in a 4231, 433 or 352. Terriers in the middle to stop us from being over run. I'd build the best team from that. Imbula or Bojan, or both in front of them. That would be nice but I am not sure your numbers add up: Butland New RB Shawcross New CB Pieters Whelan Allen Bojan Imbulla That's 9 - so who are the other two? |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 29, 2016 2:12:45 GMT
There's been several {failed} attempts at replacing Whelan, off top of me head, Wilson, Cameron, Sidwell, Van Ginkel... Glenn's seen 'em off, I hope he's got at least another season in him. In the early part of the season when we've been lukewarm, and left kicking ourselves, I'd like to see both the metronomic Whelan and Joe Allen playing together in a mopping up/filling in gaps/then driving forward midfield pair, left and right, kind of way. A defensive base to compensate for full backs or even centre backs driving forward. And a launch pad for attacks. Not really fussed if that's in a 4231, 433 or 352. Terriers in the middle to stop us from being over run. I'd build the best team from that. Imbula or Bojan, or both in front of them. That would be nice but I am not sure your numbers add up: Butland New RB Shawcross New CB Pieters Whelan Allen Bojan Imbulla That's 9 - so who are the other two? Not sure what you mean mate? As it stands I'd be looking at a starting line up of: A wily use of a strong bench too. 4231 ----------------Butland-------------------- ---Johnson Shawcross Muniesa Pieters------- --------------Whelan Allen------------------ ----------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic---------- -----------------Diouf---------------------- or 433/ otherwise known as that 'false nine bollocks'. ---------------Butland--------------------- ----Johnson Shawcross Wollscheid Pieters----- ----------Imbula Whelan Allen---------------- --------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic------------- or a nastier version ------------------Butland--------------------------- ------Johnson Shawcross Wollschied Pieters----------- ------------Imbula Whelan Allen----------------------- ------------Sobhi Diouf Arnautovic-------------------- or the dreaded 352. ----------------Butland-------------------- -----Bardsley* Shawcross Pieters------------ ---Johnson Whelan Allen Arnautovic---------- ----------------Imbula---------------------- -------------Diouf Bojan-------------------- Sweet bench on each occasion. Plenty of scope and back up. |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 29, 2016 2:20:59 GMT
That would be nice but I am not sure your numbers add up: Butland New RB Shawcross New CB Pieters Whelan Allen Bojan Imbulla That's 9 - so who are the other two? Not sure what you mean mate? As it stands I'd be looking at a starting line up of: A wily use of a strong bench too. 4231 ----------------Butland-------------------- ---Johnson Shawcross Muniesa Pieters------- --------------Whelan Allen------------------ ----------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic---------- -----------------Diouf---------------------- or 433/ otherwise known as that 'false nine bollocks'. ---------------Butland--------------------- ----Johnson Shawcross Wollscheid Pieters----- ----------Imbula Whelan Allen---------------- --------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic------------- or a nastier version ------------------Butland--------------------------- ------Johnson Shawcross Wollschied Pieters----------- ------------Imbula Whelan Allen----------------------- ------------Sobhi Diouf Arnautovic-------------------- or the dreaded 352. ----------------Butland-------------------- -----Bardsley* Shawcross Pieters------------ ---Johnson Whelan Allen Arnautovic---------- ----------------Imbula---------------------- -------------Diouf Bojan-------------------- Sweet bench on each occasion. Plenty of scope and back up. I was curious how you would fit Allen, Bojan, Whelan and Imbula into the same line up. I like what you have put. Any back 3 with Wolly will be a big mess. Bardsely, Shawcross and Muniesa might have a chance. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 2:21:27 GMT
That would be nice but I am not sure your numbers add up: Butland New RB Shawcross New CB Pieters Whelan Allen Bojan Imbulla That's 9 - so who are the other two? Not sure what you mean mate? As it stands I'd be looking at a starting line up of: A wily use of a strong bench too. 4231 ----------------Butland-------------------- ---Johnson Shawcross Muniesa Pieters------- --------------Whelan Allen------------------ ----------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic---------- -----------------Diouf---------------------- or 433/ otherwise known as that 'false nine bollocks'. ---------------Butland--------------------- ----Johnson Shawcross Wollscheid Pieters----- ----------Imbula Whelan Allen---------------- --------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic------------- or a nastier version ------------------Butland--------------------------- ------Johnson Shawcross Wollschied Pieters----------- ------------Imbula Whelan Allen----------------------- ------------Sobhi Diouf Arnautovic-------------------- or the dreaded 352. ----------------Butland-------------------- -----Bardsley* Shawcross Pieters------------ ---Johnson Whelan Allen Arnautovic---------- ----------------Imbula---------------------- -------------Diouf Bojan-------------------- Sweet bench on each occasion. Plenty of scope and back up. This would be my choice given the current squad. ---------------Butland--------------------- ----Johnson Shawcross Wollscheid Pieters----- ----------Imbula Whelan Allen---------------- --------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic------------- |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 29, 2016 2:25:17 GMT
Not sure what you mean mate? As it stands I'd be looking at a starting line up of: A wily use of a strong bench too. 4231 ----------------Butland-------------------- ---Johnson Shawcross Muniesa Pieters------- --------------Whelan Allen------------------ ----------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic---------- -----------------Diouf---------------------- or 433/ otherwise known as that 'false nine bollocks'. ---------------Butland--------------------- ----Johnson Shawcross Wollscheid Pieters----- ----------Imbula Whelan Allen---------------- --------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic------------- or a nastier version ------------------Butland--------------------------- ------Johnson Shawcross Wollschied Pieters----------- ------------Imbula Whelan Allen----------------------- ------------Sobhi Diouf Arnautovic-------------------- or the dreaded 352. ----------------Butland-------------------- -----Bardsley* Shawcross Pieters------------ ---Johnson Whelan Allen Arnautovic---------- ----------------Imbula---------------------- -------------Diouf Bojan-------------------- Sweet bench on each occasion. Plenty of scope and back up. This would be my choice given the current squad. ---------------Butland--------------------- ----Johnson Shawcross Wollscheid Pieters----- ----------Imbula Whelan Allen---------------- --------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic------------- I'd rather have Muniesa and Pieters on the left side, with Shawcross and Bardsley or Johnson on the right. Not sure Shawcross can play on that side. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 2:29:13 GMT
This would be my choice given the current squad. ---------------Butland--------------------- ----Johnson Shawcross Wollscheid Pieters----- ----------Imbula Whelan Allen---------------- --------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic------------- I'd rather have Muniesa and Pieters on the left side, with Shawcross and Bardsley or Johnson on the right. Not sure Shawcross can play on that side. Its the players not the position, of course Ryan would play on the left agreed but as for the first team those 11 would be mine at the moment. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 29, 2016 2:30:57 GMT
This would be my choice given the current squad. ---------------Butland--------------------- ----Johnson Shawcross Wollscheid Pieters----- ----------Imbula Whelan Allen---------------- --------Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic------------- I'd rather have Muniesa and Pieters on the left side, with Shawcross and Bardsley or Johnson on the right. Not sure Shawcross can play on that side. Are you reading upside down KU? |
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Post by kustokie on Jul 29, 2016 2:33:25 GMT
I'd rather have Muniesa and Pieters on the left side, with Shawcross and Bardsley or Johnson on the right. Not sure Shawcross can play on that side. Are you reading upside down KU? Think so. Usually, I look at the line-up from the goalie's view. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 6:02:57 GMT
Have two systems - two (Allen/Imbula to start, with Charlie/Glenn to sub) in a 4231/442/4411 and three (Allen/Imbula/Glenn) for 433/451 would do for me Unsure re: this 352 idea and midfield - depends on the striker choices in the 2 I suppose we'll have to see if we get overrun. Depends on Imbula's defensive contributions The 3-5-2 - which so far has been more of a 5-3-2 - is probably more a choice of whoever was available during pre season than our preferred system (Allen/Whelan still to feature, find form). Still it's been tried and it hasnt been wholly unsuccessful, so it's something we may switch to as plan B if needed. However I would play Muniesa as the left wingback as he's far more tactically influential than Peters who plays the same way regardless of our system. 4-3-3 - which usually ends up as 4-5-1 at this club - has potential. What could be different this time is if Imbula is freed from defensive shackles. For sure he has to track back, tackle and so on, but with Allen and Whelan behind, he should be allowed to be our link to the playmaker, which could be Bojan, but Shaq, Arnie and a fit Afellay are all options. 4-2-3-1 is what we'll be doing if we simply build on last seasons' system. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 6:20:27 GMT
False 9 could be the one for the start of the season. I don't think we ever played it after the arrival of Imbula?
Positives of using it for me:
- Bojan looks like he's going to be on fire and will excel in the role.
- Imbula will be able to drive forward from deep and support Bojan, which is arguably his best attribute.
- Joe Allen will be a much better option than Cameron was last season (though he played some of his best football for Stoke in the false 9 last year) as his role in the middle 3 will suit his game also. Moving the ball on forward quickly and efficiently.
- Whelan doing what he does best - fuck all until they've got the ball.
- Back 4 seemed pretty tight whenever we played it.
- How good would it be to beat Pep with his own brain child? The MOTD analysis would be jizzworthy.
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