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Post by fca47 on Jul 1, 2016 21:35:44 GMT
With the success of Wales, does it show the lie that Championship players are not good enough to represent England. Play people who are proud to play for England rather than some of these mardarses.
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Post by samba :) on Jul 1, 2016 21:41:22 GMT
Were there many
Kanu and gunter the only ones today
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Post by longtimestokie on Jul 1, 2016 21:44:30 GMT
Got to say ,,,, most of the english players only get a game because of the team they play for and not on their own merit
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 1, 2016 21:53:20 GMT
With the success of Wales, does it show the lie that Championship players are not good enough to represent England. Play people who are proud to play for England rather than some of these mardarses. If they are good enough yes. Obviously in this, the year of the underdog it's a question to be asked . However I reckon you could put a team picked from the combined Barca, Real an Bayern squads and by the time they'd been set up by Hodgson on the back if a month long camp under his tutelage they too would struggle against a 'minnow' nation. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 1, 2016 23:34:01 GMT
Given the shitness of our defence I wonder if it might be worth finding two good old fashioned stoppers and playing them. It would mean fewer possibilities further forward but English players are far too thick to do that properly anyway.
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Post by Royal Donut on Jul 1, 2016 23:48:19 GMT
Don't have to even look that far down. It's funny how they pick players from man u, when the same player which might play for Norwich (for example) scores the same amount of goals over a season. I mean for Norwich you would have half the chances, and more than likely harder chances, because your name is Rooney or shouldn't make a difference.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 0:59:13 GMT
If they're good enough then yes but it's not something we should be actively doing.
We need a manager with a plan, who knows his best XI and has tactics. That's what we need. We have good players but no leadership, no identity and no idea of what we want.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 2, 2016 1:03:39 GMT
We just need a decent manager. Roy Hodgson is a clown.
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Post by upthefud on Jul 2, 2016 1:18:14 GMT
We just need a decent manager. Roy Hodgson is a clown. 6 knock out wins in 50 years suggests we need more than just a good manager. How did we fly through the qualifies then draw with Slovakia and Russia and lose to Iceland? The players couldn't give a fuck. So yes, play championship players and players who care. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 2, 2016 1:35:51 GMT
We just need a decent manager. Roy Hodgson is a clown. 6 knock out wins in 50 years suggests we need more than just a good manager. How did we fly through the qualifies then draw with Slovakia and Russia and lose to Iceland? The players couldn't give a fuck. So yes, play championship players and players who care. They couldn't give a fuck? I'm not having that. They'll want to win. This whole English attitude of tactics and plans don't matter is concerning. And part of the problem as it seems to be the thinking high up too. We had no plan and no idea of our best XI, you can't win football games without those two things!! |
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Post by upthefud on Jul 2, 2016 1:53:48 GMT
6 knock out wins in 50 years suggests we need more than just a good manager. How did we fly through the qualifies then draw with Slovakia and Russia and lose to Iceland? The players couldn't give a fuck. So yes, play championship players and players who care. They couldn't give a fuck? I'm not having that. They'll want to win. This whole English attitude of tactics and plans don't matter is concerning. And part of the problem as it seems to be the thinking high up too. We had no plan and no idea of our best XI, you can't win football games without those two things!! Why do we underperform every single championship? This being the absolute pinnacle. Have we just not had a plan for 50 years? Wales are in the semis Iceland in the QFs We have a team who earn a fortune (who've since jetted off on holiday) and we can't beat a team of part-timers. I know we're grossly over-rated but this takes the piss. They don't care. |
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Jul 2, 2016 2:06:58 GMT
If I didn't know better I'd've sworn we fielded quite a few against Iceland...
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 2, 2016 2:10:07 GMT
We just need a decent manager. Roy Hodgson is a clown. 6 knock out wins in 50 years suggests we need more than just a good manager. How did we fly through the qualifies then draw with Slovakia and Russia and lose to Iceland? The players couldn't give a fuck. So yes, play championship players and players who care. It's not about not wanting to win. The players we have are decent players, maybe not World Class, but good enough to beat the teams that we played. I am certain all of our players wanted to win and gave it what they had. You don't get to that level of football and not give a fuck about something as important as the Euros. Roy Hodgson was not the right man to push us forward. -He used the same tactics vs Iceland that we used against Russia which wasn't working. -He left substitutions late. -Vardy not starting is criminal. -Leaving Kane on set-pieces after every failed attempt. -Playing Rooney in midfield or playing him at all. -Taking Wilshere having played very few games. Roy Hodgson gets most the blame for me. |
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Post by StoKeith on Jul 2, 2016 2:14:01 GMT
If they're good enough then yes but it's not something we should be actively doing. We need a manager with a plan, who knows his best XI and has tactics. That's what we need. We have good players but no leadership, no identity and no idea of what we want. I agree with this. Teams such as Wales and Iceland have realised that they need to develop tactics and plans over years to make sure their players know their roles whenever they get called up. Woy was trying new formations during the tournament. No wonder the players looked like they didn't have a clue what was going on. The new manager should pick a formation and style and nurture that over the next few years. |
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Post by upthefud on Jul 2, 2016 2:23:51 GMT
6 knock out wins in 50 years suggests we need more than just a good manager. How did we fly through the qualifies then draw with Slovakia and Russia and lose to Iceland? The players couldn't give a fuck. So yes, play championship players and players who care. It's not about not wanting to win. The players we have are decent players, maybe not World Class, but good enough to beat the teams that we played. I am certain all of our players wanted to win and gave it what they had. You don't get to that level of football and not give a fuck about something as important as the Euros. Roy Hodgson was not the right man to push us forward. -He used the same tactics vs Iceland that we used against Russia which wasn't working. -He left substitutions late. -Vardy not starting is criminal. -Leaving Kane on set-pieces after every failed attempt. -Playing Rooney in midfield or playing him at all. -Taking Wilshere having played very few games. Roy Hodgson gets most the blame for me. I agree with every single one of your points don't get me wrong, but what was the excuse 2, 4, 6, 8 years ago. We are a team of egos. "The manager didn't let us bring the WAGs." "The WAGs came and were a distraction." Playing and unfit Beckham. Persisting with Lampard. Not realising the Lampard and Gerrard didn't work... The list is endless. We pick superstars from top clubs who see playing for the country as a hindrance. They have cliques and don't gel and then make a shitload of excuses and bugger off on holiday. You can't say that Wales didn't want it more last night. A team of Championship players wouldn't draw with Algeria, Slovakia, Russia, Costa Rica ect and they certainly wouldn't lose to Iceland. |
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 2, 2016 2:32:14 GMT
It's not about not wanting to win. The players we have are decent players, maybe not World Class, but good enough to beat the teams that we played. I am certain all of our players wanted to win and gave it what they had. You don't get to that level of football and not give a fuck about something as important as the Euros. Roy Hodgson was not the right man to push us forward. -He used the same tactics vs Iceland that we used against Russia which wasn't working. -He left substitutions late. -Vardy not starting is criminal. -Leaving Kane on set-pieces after every failed attempt. -Playing Rooney in midfield or playing him at all. -Taking Wilshere having played very few games. Roy Hodgson gets most the blame for me. I agree with every single one of your points don't get me wrong, but what was the excuse 2, 4, 6, 8 years ago. We are a team of egos. "The manager didn't let us bring the WAGs." "The WAGs came and were a distraction." Playing and unfit Beckham. Persisting with Lampard. Not realising the Lampard and Gerrard didn't work... The list is endless. We pick superstars from top clubs who see playing for the country as a hindrance. They have cliques and don't gel and then make a shitload of excuses and bugger off on holiday. You can't say that Wales didn't want it more last night. A team of Championship players wouldn't draw with Algeria, Slovakia, Russia, Costa Rica ect and they certainly wouldn't lose to Iceland. But why do Italy consistently do well at tournaments? Same with the other teams that have big name players. I just find it hard to believe that the England players just don't give a shit and won't give it their all. We had a fairly young squad who I'm positive were trying to make a name for themselves. |
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Post by upthefud on Jul 2, 2016 3:03:35 GMT
I agree with every single one of your points don't get me wrong, but what was the excuse 2, 4, 6, 8 years ago. We are a team of egos. "The manager didn't let us bring the WAGs." "The WAGs came and were a distraction." Playing and unfit Beckham. Persisting with Lampard. Not realising the Lampard and Gerrard didn't work... The list is endless. We pick superstars from top clubs who see playing for the country as a hindrance. They have cliques and don't gel and then make a shitload of excuses and bugger off on holiday. You can't say that Wales didn't want it more last night. A team of Championship players wouldn't draw with Algeria, Slovakia, Russia, Costa Rica ect and they certainly wouldn't lose to Iceland. But why do Italy consistently do well at tournaments? Same with the other teams that have big name players. I just find it hard to believe that the England players just don't give a shit and won't give it their all. We had a fairly young squad who I'm positive were trying to make a name for themselves. They certainly managed to do that. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 2, 2016 4:12:03 GMT
I said the same last night. Trouble is, the media would be in uproar if the "stars" didn't play. People are picked on reputation not on how they fit into a team.
Also there's a recurring problem of building players up too much. One good season in the Premier League is enough for the media to paint a player as the next big thing; ever likely there is an arrogance about them when they are continually lauded.
I know he didn't play but what the hell has Stones actually achieved in football? I have seen him play well about 3 times and he's hailed as the new Baresi or Moore!
Wilshere is the epitome of the "stars must play" attitude. That lad took up a place that Drinkwater or Noble deserved. It was an insult to both that Wilshere and Henderson were preferred over them.
Players should be picked on merit and they haven't been for ages.
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Post by tijuanabrass on Jul 2, 2016 6:00:13 GMT
I think Wales' (and Iceland's) remarkable and well deserved success help to add some decent context to the England question. The recriminations and hand-wringing over the last week has been predictable post tournament fare for the English but this time there are a genuine validations that debunk many of the "why we are crap" myths.
The premier league is not good enough to produce players that can succeed in a major international tournament.
The premiership players play too many matches (mid year break anyone?).
The English don't play our managers enough?
There is no British/English manager with the ability to carry a team through to the latter stages of the competition.
Players outside of the top 4 or in the second tier couldn't handle this level of competition.
A team requires a squad of elite footballers to compete with the big clubs.
Prima donna players from Arsenal, Man U or Real bleeding Madrid are incapable of playing with passion and flair when asked to do so for their country.
In the last 50 years the two things that have changed in the England set-up with regular frequency are the manager and the players and yet the inability to achieve is unwavering in its dependability.
People will often point to fan expectation as laying too much burden on the English players and while there maybe some truth in this, have a scan through this board if you need to see how many people were saying the English would win it. Nobody had much hope of a trophy and the best that people were hoping for were the Quarters Finals.
So what is there unique to the 3 Lions that renders them perpetual village idiots riding rocking-horses backwards around the great festivals of Football?
The FA for a start. They appoint the managers (or don't) and probably have a large say in team selection - sponsorship anyone?
The British press - I don't get chance to review teh British papers in their entirety but I'll wager there are no turnips set aside for The O'Neils, Coleman or Marc Wilmots.
The preparation and organisation of team camps during the tournament - this one of course points back to the FA. On the Be In sports panel, Richard Keyes, Andy Gray and Louis Garcia were discussing this very point and they all mentioned how players such as Lampard, Terry, Gerrard had told them how unpleasant it was being away at a tournament and how they couldn't wait to get back on the Plane home. Being stuck in a hotel room, no socialisation, no alcohol, tough training regimes and separation from their homes and families made it a genuinely unpleasant experience for them. Garcia said that when Gerrard told him this he was amazed since the Spain camp was always fired up with enthusiastic camaraderie.
Now, I don't for one moment think that sending Vardy and Sterling out on the pull every night would have improved the team or it's results but could there be some truth in this?
After all, if our qualifying group had included Russia, Wales or Iceland do you think that we would have failed to qualify? Taking nothing from those countries team but with the players available to England I think we'd come out on top 9 times out of 10. However, once you stick this bunch of individuals in a training camp for a month, they collectively become lesser than the sum of their parts.
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Post by Northy on Jul 2, 2016 6:10:32 GMT
They couldn't give a fuck? I'm not having that. They'll want to win. This whole English attitude of tactics and plans don't matter is concerning. And part of the problem as it seems to be the thinking high up too. We had no plan and no idea of our best XI, you can't win football games without those two things!! Why do we underperform every single championship? This being the absolute pinnacle. Have we just not had a plan for 50 years? Wales are in the semis Iceland in the QFs We have a team who earn a fortune (who've since jetted off on holiday) and we can't beat a team of part-timers. I know we're grossly over-rated but this takes the piss. They don't care. Which part timers are you on about, if it's Iceland I suggest you check who the players play for, they beat Holland twice in their qualifying group? They care, they just aren't good or strong enough when it matters, they've had their arses wiped in academies for years, they need to find that extra passion when it matters, and a manager who picks players on merit into a position and system they know and understand. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 2, 2016 6:13:13 GMT
The idea the players don't care is ridiculous. If they didn't care why go at all? Why not retire from international football altogether?
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Post by mar1386 on Jul 2, 2016 6:20:22 GMT
The root cause lies in the wrong managers being appointed - it's nothing new, in the '70s the failure to qualify for 1974 World Cup was ultimately down to FA's refusal to give Brian Clough the job. Remember Huddy being ignored or marginalised around the time?
More recently the clear bias against even seriously considering Harry Redknapp, and right now the probable erasing of any claims Big Sam has point to where the blame really lies.
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Post by ryan4england on Jul 2, 2016 6:20:36 GMT
Got to say ,,,, most of the english players only get a game because of the team they play for and not on their own merit Raheem sterling perfect example, cost 50 mil, plays for man city = important player. Wilshire is another, let's hope the must play for top club theory has been put to bed |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 6:24:25 GMT
Got to say ,,,, most of the english players only get a game because of the team they play for and not on their own merit Jack Wilshere springs to mind. In response to the opening message, not necessarily but you shouldn't rule them out. Wales have a great team spirit and togetherness. They also have a good balance in the team. England always seem to pick the players from the top 5 teams and try to forge a team from them. We should try and find a balance, if that includes picking a player or two from the championship get on with it. Guarantee who ever the next manager is, as soon as we get to selecting a team to take to russia he'll do exactly what all his predecessor's have done and select big names. Even if they've been out all season or just been crap all season. Weak management. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 2, 2016 10:56:19 GMT
We just need a decent manager. Roy Hodgson is a clown. It is a much deeper than the manager. Just blaming the manager is the easy way out. |
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 2, 2016 11:04:58 GMT
Got to say ,,,, most of the english players only get a game because of the team they play for and not on their own merit Garbage. |
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 2, 2016 11:06:08 GMT
We just need a decent manager. Roy Hodgson is a clown. 6 knock out wins in 50 years suggests we need more than just a good manager. How did we fly through the qualifies then draw with Slovakia and Russia and lose to Iceland? The players couldn't give a fuck.So yes, play championship players and players who care. Garbage |
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 2, 2016 11:07:06 GMT
Name the championship players who should be playing. Name the Norwich players who should be playing.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jul 2, 2016 11:13:11 GMT
What's the point? The England team are putting in Championship level performances now!
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Post by superheroantonius on Jul 2, 2016 11:14:51 GMT
Name the championship players who should be playing. Name the Norwich players who should be playing. I don't think Redmond would have done worse than Sterling and I am not sure Ruddy would have done worse than Hart . Robbie Brady played in the Euro's for Ireland and was decent |
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