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Post by staffsvilla on Jul 1, 2016 7:22:35 GMT
Now I know I'm old but I'm not senile yet mate, they outplayed us for long periods, hit the woodwork twice and in the words of the press "Belgium who struck the woodwork twice were left with nothing to show for their technical superiority" The Times Don't get me wrong I loved Italia 90 ,the whole thing was great and watching England was pure drama but I just think time erodes the reality of what happened  Belgo weren't robbed though. Don't forget we had big spells of the game too. We did, we also had a john Barnes goal disallowed which was harsh at best, but if the boot had been on the other foot we would of been gutted robbed maybe a bit strong but they were clearly the better side and even though I'm Villa I still blame Platty for my ruptured Achilles tendon when I fell off the table in the pub when he lashed it in  |
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Post by werrington on Jul 1, 2016 7:29:18 GMT
Rob Belgium? That's bollox. Now I know I'm old but I'm not senile yet mate, they outplayed us for long periods, hit the woodwork twice and in the words of the press "Belgium who struck the woodwork twice were left with nothing to show for their technical superiority" The Times Don't get me wrong I loved Italia 90 ,the whole thing was great and watching England was pure drama but I just think time erodes the reality of what happened This is how I remember it also |
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Post by metalhead on Jul 1, 2016 8:30:05 GMT
In 1996 football came home. Then it eloped with the Germans again. Then we sacked venables for something away from football then the same with Hoddle We were on to something special but in typical fashion eh I forget why Venables was sacked but you simply can't say what Hoddle said. Trust me, I was gutted and his sacking resulted in 2-3 years worth of mismanagement by Kevin Keegan, however his remarks were really unpleasant. |
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Post by werrington on Jul 1, 2016 10:13:53 GMT
Then we sacked venables for something away from football then the same with Hoddle We were on to something special but in typical fashion eh I forget why Venables was sacked but you simply can't say what Hoddle said. Trust me, I was gutted and his sacking resulted in 2-3 years worth of mismanagement by Kevin Keegan, however his remarks were really unpleasant. Oh i agree fully with you about what he said mate....but in reality it was only an opinion away from football Venables was sacked for some dodgy business deal ...which again was away from football |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 11:45:43 GMT
NO POINT IN REMINICENCES ABOUT THE LAST 25 YEARS OR MORE
apart from the Euro 96 mob
The current squad / setup - They did exactly everything exactly as I predicted
breezed the qualifiers
beat a few 'names' in pre tournament meaningless friendlies
played well in some early games but still there was somethings not quite right
e.g.
a) could not score in a brothel
b) Everytime the ball went in our penalty box 'our' ? 'we' ? WE ? - conceded or nearly conceded
and then
when it started to matter
'completely folded like a deckchair' - so badly this time -I actually felt pity for them
and the manager exposed for what he really was - an utterly hopeless changeling, massively out of his depth and massively overpaid
(And all the total mugs that paid good money to follow them around especially)
just not worth investing any emotion in at all, these-days
but will anybody learn ?
most of all the FA ? ----- dont think so
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Post by metalhead on Jul 1, 2016 13:29:40 GMT
I forget why Venables was sacked but you simply can't say what Hoddle said. Trust me, I was gutted and his sacking resulted in 2-3 years worth of mismanagement by Kevin Keegan, however his remarks were really unpleasant. Oh i agree fully with you about what he said mate....but in reality it was only an opinion away from football Venables was sacked for some dodgy business deal ...which again was away from football Venables sounds a lot less cut and dry. The problem is werra, when you're the manager of the England National team, you have to represent the nation to a degree. No idea where you work, but would you go in and start shouting those opinions off? Almost certainly not. It's no different to walking into your place of business and reeling off a load of racist views. It's just not seen as acceptable. Hoddle's comments were seen as completely alienating the disabled community in this country. Football is an inclusive sport. I totally get what you mean, but for me, Hoddle fucked it himself. Then we got Keegan, who was all passion, no actual style and lost the last couple of years of the best English striker in recent history. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 1, 2016 13:32:27 GMT
Oh i agree fully with you about what he said mate....but in reality it was only an opinion away from football Venables was sacked for some dodgy business deal ...which again was away from football Venables sounds a lot less cut and dry. The problem is werra, when you're the manager of the England National team, you have to represent the nation to a degree. No idea where you work, but would you go in and start shouting those opinions off? Almost certainly not. It's no different to walking into your place of business and reeling off a load of racist views. It's just not seen as acceptable. Hoddle's comments were seen as completely alienating the disabled community in this country. Football is an inclusive sport. I totally get what you mean, but for me, Hoddle fucked it himself. Then we got Keegan, who was all passion, no actual style and lost the last couple of years of the best English striker in recent history. Hoddle said those comments in a radio5 interview between qualifying and the start of the world cup and nobody was bothered. |
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Post by metalhead on Jul 1, 2016 13:47:57 GMT
Venables sounds a lot less cut and dry. The problem is werra, when you're the manager of the England National team, you have to represent the nation to a degree. No idea where you work, but would you go in and start shouting those opinions off? Almost certainly not. It's no different to walking into your place of business and reeling off a load of racist views. It's just not seen as acceptable. Hoddle's comments were seen as completely alienating the disabled community in this country. Football is an inclusive sport. I totally get what you mean, but for me, Hoddle fucked it himself. Then we got Keegan, who was all passion, no actual style and lost the last couple of years of the best English striker in recent history. Hoddle said those comments in a radio5 interview between qualifying and the start of the world cup and nobody was bothered. Weren't those comments said in qualifying for Euro 2000? |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 1, 2016 13:59:34 GMT
Hoddle said those comments in a radio5 interview between qualifying and the start of the world cup and nobody was bothered. Weren't those comments said in qualifying for Euro 2000? He said them to Matt Dickinson in a times interview during qualifying for 200 and he'd said them before the 1998 World cup on radio5. When things weren't going well on the pitch everyone took umbrage. Nobody cared when things were going well and a world cup was round the corner. |
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Post by metalhead on Jul 1, 2016 14:09:12 GMT
Weren't those comments said in qualifying for Euro 2000? He said them to Matt Dickinson in a times interview during qualifying for 200 and he'd said them before the 1998 World cup on radio5. When things weren't going well on the pitch everyone took umbrage. Nobody cared when things were going well and a world cup was round the corner. Fair enough. Must admit, I haven't heard about it being said on 5live. However to suggest things weren't going well is a bit of a misnomer, is it not? We had won one, lost one, and drawn one, and lay somewhere in the middle of the group? |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 1, 2016 14:14:17 GMT
He said them to Matt Dickinson in a times interview during qualifying for 200 and he'd said them before the 1998 World cup on radio5. When things weren't going well on the pitch everyone took umbrage. Nobody cared when things were going well and a world cup was round the corner. Fair enough. Must admit, I haven't heard about it being said on 5live. However to suggest things weren't going well is a bit of a misnomer, is it not? We had won one, lost one, and drawn one, and lay somewhere in the middle of the group? Yeah I know. There was a post world cup hangover thing going on. Failing to win at home to Bulgaria and his book had pissed a lot of people off. It was reported there was a huge dressing room row with Shearer after the Luxembourg game. AS soon as you fell out with Shearer the going got a lot tougher. |
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Jul 1, 2016 14:15:51 GMT
We played really well in 2002 with the "golden generation".
We were even 1-0 up against that amazing Brazil side. If only Seaman could have judged the flight of the ball..
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 1, 2016 14:19:30 GMT
We played really well in 2002 with the "golden generation". We were even 1-0 up against that amazing Brazil side. If only Seaman could have judged the flight of the ball.. Seaman got jarred then Beckham bottled a tackle with his bad foot and they went though and scored, all in the minutes just before HT. We couldn't rally after. That's where the Iain Duncan Smith/Churchill quote came from!! As much as I think Sven was a good England manager you have to question the fact he wouldn't alter his methods in a situation like that. |
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Post by metalhead on Jul 1, 2016 14:30:28 GMT
We played really well in 2002 with the "golden generation". We were even 1-0 up against that amazing Brazil side. If only Seaman could have judged the flight of the ball.. Seaman got jarred then Beckham bottled a tackle with his bad foot and they went though and scored, all in the minutes just before HT. We couldn't rally after. That's where the Iain Duncan Smith/Churchill quote came from!! As much as I think Sven was a good England manager you have to question the fact he wouldn't alter his methods in a situation like that. Horrible watching it, even now, but my main criticism, other than Seaman's absolutely dreadful positioning, is one that I felt should have been addressed two years earlier (I remember thinking it at the time), which is that Seaman was way past his best and was struggling to move properly. Successive managers seemed to persevere with Seaman, even though he'd been slowly losing it since about 1995 (about 31 years old at that point). He's 38 in the video above, and I totally get the whole "keepers can play for longer argument" yes.... some can, some can't. Just watching it now, it annoys me to this day.... just look how fucking static he is. He's incredibly static when you watch the clip, it's genuinely not even a joke. It's like he can't shift his body as quickly as he needs to. When you can't shift your body like before, you have to be perfectly positioned and Seaman always had problems with his positioning. Let's not forget he got mugged by Nayim a few years earlier from about 40 yards out. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 1, 2016 14:33:12 GMT
Seaman got jarred then Beckham bottled a tackle with his bad foot and they went though and scored, all in the minutes just before HT. We couldn't rally after. That's where the Iain Duncan Smith/Churchill quote came from!! As much as I think Sven was a good England manager you have to question the fact he wouldn't alter his methods in a situation like that. Horrible watching it, even now, but my main criticism, other than Seaman's absolutely dreadful positioning, is one that I felt should have been addressed two years earlier (I remember thinking it at the time), which is that Seaman was way past his best and was struggling to move properly. Successive managers seemed to persevere with Seaman, even though he'd been slowly losing it since about 1995 (about 31 years old at that point). He's 38 in the video above, and I totally get the whole "keepers can play for longer argument" yes.... some can, some can't. Just watching it now, it annoys me to this day.... just look how fucking static he is. He's incredibly static when you watch the clip, it's genuinely not even a joke. It's like he can't shift his body as quickly as he needs to. When you can't shift your body like before, you have to be perfectly positioned and Seaman always had problems with his positioning. Let's not forget he got mugged by Nayim a few years earlier from about 40 yards out. I think the weight of his pony tail meant he fell backwards too quick and couldn't get to the ball in time. |
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Post by metalhead on Jul 1, 2016 14:35:18 GMT
Horrible watching it, even now, but my main criticism, other than Seaman's absolutely dreadful positioning, is one that I felt should have been addressed two years earlier (I remember thinking it at the time), which is that Seaman was way past his best and was struggling to move properly. Successive managers seemed to persevere with Seaman, even though he'd been slowly losing it since about 1995 (about 31 years old at that point). He's 38 in the video above, and I totally get the whole "keepers can play for longer argument" yes.... some can, some can't. Just watching it now, it annoys me to this day.... just look how fucking static he is. He's incredibly static when you watch the clip, it's genuinely not even a joke. It's like he can't shift his body as quickly as he needs to. When you can't shift your body like before, you have to be perfectly positioned and Seaman always had problems with his positioning. Let's not forget he got mugged by Nayim a few years earlier from about 40 yards out. I think the weight of his pony tail meant he fell backwards too quick and couldn't get to the ball in time. I think Nigel Martyn probably feels his international career was scammed by this clown  |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jul 1, 2016 14:37:20 GMT
Seaman got jarred then Beckham bottled a tackle with his bad foot and they went though and scored, all in the minutes just before HT. We couldn't rally after. That's where the Iain Duncan Smith/Churchill quote came from!! As much as I think Sven was a good England manager you have to question the fact he wouldn't alter his methods in a situation like that. Horrible watching it, even now, but my main criticism, other than Seaman's absolutely dreadful positioning, is one that I felt should have been addressed two years earlier (I remember thinking it at the time), which is that Seaman was way past his best and was struggling to move properly. Successive managers seemed to persevere with Seaman, even though he'd been slowly losing it since about 1995 (about 31 years old at that point). He's 38 in the video above, and I totally get the whole "keepers can play for longer argument" yes.... some can, some can't. Just watching it now, it annoys me to this day.... just look how fucking static he is. He's incredibly static when you watch the clip, it's genuinely not even a joke. It's like he can't shift his body as quickly as he needs to. When you can't shift your body like before, you have to be perfectly positioned and Seaman always had problems with his positioning. Let's not forget he got mugged by Nayim a few years earlier from about 40 yards out. i remember everyone saying at the time "To be fair to Seaman he wasn't expecting a shot from that far out"...so fucking what???? if it's from that far out then you have plenty of time to reposition yourself even if you're not expecting a shot. as you say, he was as mobile as Crouch by then though. |
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Post by metalhead on Jul 1, 2016 14:40:16 GMT
Horrible watching it, even now, but my main criticism, other than Seaman's absolutely dreadful positioning, is one that I felt should have been addressed two years earlier (I remember thinking it at the time), which is that Seaman was way past his best and was struggling to move properly. Successive managers seemed to persevere with Seaman, even though he'd been slowly losing it since about 1995 (about 31 years old at that point). He's 38 in the video above, and I totally get the whole "keepers can play for longer argument" yes.... some can, some can't. Just watching it now, it annoys me to this day.... just look how fucking static he is. He's incredibly static when you watch the clip, it's genuinely not even a joke. It's like he can't shift his body as quickly as he needs to. When you can't shift your body like before, you have to be perfectly positioned and Seaman always had problems with his positioning. Let's not forget he got mugged by Nayim a few years earlier from about 40 yards out. i remember everyone saying at the time "To be fair to Seaman he wasn't expecting a shot from that far out"...so fucking what???? if it's from that far out then you have plenty of time to reposition yourself even if you're not expecting a shot. as you say, he was as mobile as Crouch by then though. I think it says a lot, that if you watch the video, he moves a whole lot more when unintentionally falls backwards like an unbalanced donkey, than when he's actually trying to move his feet. Way way fucking past it, yet like other past it players, England have this thing about trying to make historically good players put in "one last great tournament" and look where it gets us. That final sentence totally contradicts the argument I'm having with you in the other thread. I've lost |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jul 1, 2016 14:43:21 GMT
i remember everyone saying at the time "To be fair to Seaman he wasn't expecting a shot from that far out"...so fucking what???? if it's from that far out then you have plenty of time to reposition yourself even if you're not expecting a shot. as you say, he was as mobile as Crouch by then though. I think it says a lot, that if you watch the video, he moves a whole lot more when unintentionally falls backwards like an unbalanced donkey, than when he's actually trying to move his feet. Way way fucking past it, yet like other past it players, England have this thing about trying to make historically good players put in "one last great tournament" and look where it gets us. That final sentence totally contradicts the argument I'm having with you in the other thread. I've lost |
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Post by petemac on Jul 1, 2016 14:46:44 GMT
Euro 96 was the last time we peaked and should of won the trophy on home soil but was not to be and to be typical English we like a queue which happens to be a long fucking queue before we win anything again.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 1, 2016 14:49:04 GMT
Euro 96 was the last time we peaked and should of won the trophy on home soil but was not to be and to be typical English we like a queue which happens to be a long fucking queue before we win anything again. Not in our lifetime. Actually I dunno how old you are. Definitely not in mine though. |
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Post by petemac on Jul 1, 2016 15:02:40 GMT
Euro 96 was the last time we peaked and should of won the trophy on home soil but was not to be and to be typical English we like a queue which happens to be a long fucking queue before we win anything again. Not in our lifetime. Actually I dunno how old you are. Definitely not in mine though. I guess if you are in your twenties |
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Post by werrington on Jul 1, 2016 16:40:58 GMT
Euro 96 was the last time we peaked and should of won the trophy on home soil but was not to be and to be typical English we like a queue which happens to be a long fucking queue before we win anything again. I would argue 2004 when Sol Campbell had a perfectly good goal ruled out in Portugal I'm confident we would of gone on to win it |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 1, 2016 23:31:16 GMT
Euro 96 was the last time we peaked and should of won the trophy on home soil but was not to be and to be typical English we like a queue which happens to be a long fucking queue before we win anything again. I would argue 2004 when Sol Campbell had a perfectly good goal ruled out in Portugal I'm confident we would of gone on to win it We were more capable of winning in 2004 than 96 imho The same old psychological inadequacy did for us. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 17:34:37 GMT
Somebody on the radio said something particularly funny today about the FA
he said
'If you gave the FA a box with 'open other end' written on it
they would for sure, open, the end with it actually written on first' - funny I thought
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Post by kidsgroveboxxy on Jul 2, 2016 22:56:18 GMT
In my opinion, 20 years ago for Euro 96, the country and morale was completely different. It was seen as almost cool to be English, the social situation of the country was on a massive scale, different. 'Cool Britannia' was king, Brit-pop was a worldwide success, The Spice Girls released Wannabe, Oasis and Blur were battling the charts all over Europe, Austin Powers was just about to be released and was a massive box office smash. The Premier League was in it's infancy but garnering a huge following worldwide and the country backed the squad. We had a team of men, not prissy mega-rich boys who only care when the cheque has cleared, the media hated us, then reneged. We had a tremendous song in 'Three Lions;', The manager backed his squad and went out of his way to defend them in the wake of the 'dentist chair scandal'. He knew how to manage a team of somewhat tearaways and moulded them into the team that 99% of the country fell in love with. It wasn't clean-cut sexy European football that the team played, and that may well have been the Achilles heel. However, twenty years ago, there was that glimmer of hope that these men that we had invested in and wore the hallowed three lions on their hearts, did their best and gave it their damned all for the country. This shambles that had a holiday in France couldn't give a fuck about us, the decent folk who pay their wages, who still, after years of hurt still cling onto a glimmer of hope that we may, just may, be able to do it. It's a sad state of affairs that the best players in the Premier League are foreign nationals, rather than Englishmen. This is true for most of the established teams in the Pl (Stoke included) Grassroots football has been stamped out. Sprayed with Roundup in the form of a toxic mix of money and greed from the Television companies.
England's green and pleasant land is slowly turning a mucky brown colour, and until we can nurture the ground and look after the precious shoots of homegrown talent, we might as all resign ourselves to misery in any competitive tournament.
Radical social change, and a huge reform in the England squad is desperately needed.
R.I.P England.
I'm going to open up my bottle of Titanic Stout now and forget about how shit this national team (and country) has become
Goodnight.
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