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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 9:25:38 GMT
Love him or hate him but farage would have done a good job He should been given a medal to get this far with all the shit he's had to take from the far left activists, Westminster elite, papers, tv, eu....and now kept out of the next process too
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 28, 2016 9:33:36 GMT
How can Farage tell them to grow up and then immediately accuse them all of having never done a proper days work in their lives?
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jun 28, 2016 9:34:43 GMT
I'm totally staggered too Although, we are not Switzerland Seems the plan is to hold out now in the hope other countries public follow suit. Especially those with elections coming up You've also mentioned that we might opt for a Norway style system, it would mean we might as well have stayed in the EU - they had to accept the free movement of people to join the single market - they still pay substantial subsidies to the EU - they have adopted three quarters of EU legislation into Norwegian legislation - and counting and yet they don't get a say in anything because they're not in the EU. If other countries don't leave then we've dropped a massive clanger. Sorry Rick but your figures are wrong. your confusing figures between those that have been enacted (9%) and those that have an influence no matter how minimal the effect on Norway, including dealing with companies who have EU rules but not them (75% - which i where i presume you get your figure from - Norwegian government?) Independent studies have proven that the EU rules (including those that are temporary in nature) plus those enacted (or adopted as you have said above - 9%) gives you a figure of 17% of Norwegian legislation being affected in someway by the EU. Far less than the 75% you are espousing.....
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Post by greenhoff74 on Jun 28, 2016 9:36:38 GMT
Farage " 17 years ago I told you I wanted the uk to leave the EU, you all laughed at me, well whose laughing now" !
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Post by metalhead on Jun 28, 2016 9:48:09 GMT
There won't be a second referendum.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 9:56:37 GMT
Nigel's fears ....
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Post by petemac on Jun 28, 2016 10:10:53 GMT
Thought he came across ok, much better than the pre and post referendum rant.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Jun 28, 2016 10:50:47 GMT
You've also mentioned that we might opt for a Norway style system, it would mean we might as well have stayed in the EU - they had to accept the free movement of people to join the single market - they still pay substantial subsidies to the EU - they have adopted three quarters of EU legislation into Norwegian legislation - and counting and yet they don't get a say in anything because they're not in the EU. If other countries don't leave then we've dropped a massive clanger. Sorry Rick but your figures are wrong. your confusing figures between those that have been enacted (9%) and those that have an influence no matter how minimal the effect on Norway, including dealing with companies who have EU rules but not them (75% - which i where i presume you get your figure from - Norwegian government?) Independent studies have proven that the EU rules (including those that are temporary in nature) plus those enacted (or adopted as you have said above - 9%) gives you a figure of 17% of Norwegian legislation being affected in someway by the EU. Far less than the 75% you are espousing..... I'd obtained the 75% figure from an article I'd read the other day but I'll go with what you're saying.
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Post by desman2 on Jun 28, 2016 11:11:10 GMT
How can Farage tell them to grow up and then immediately accuse them all of having never done a proper days work in their lives? probably because they havnt. Like most of our mps here.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jun 28, 2016 11:21:51 GMT
Sorry Rick but your figures are wrong. your confusing figures between those that have been enacted (9%) and those that have an influence no matter how minimal the effect on Norway, including dealing with companies who have EU rules but not them (75% - which i where i presume you get your figure from - Norwegian government?) Independent studies have proven that the EU rules (including those that are temporary in nature) plus those enacted (or adopted as you have said above - 9%) gives you a figure of 17% of Norwegian legislation being affected in someway by the EU. Far less than the 75% you are espousing..... I'd obtained the 75% figure from an article I'd read the other day but I'll go with what you're saying. It's okay. there has been great discussion between what figures we could use (The leavers stated 9% and the remainers 75%). That is why they instigated a research on actual EU effect on Norway.... but figures can be construed to suit any argument..... hence the confusion. If i hadn't looked deeper into this I would have initially just said the 9% mark
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 28, 2016 15:06:24 GMT
Representative democracy vs direct democracy. One works to keep the experts in check, one is shit and we can (and do) do without it. What does a checkout clerk know about building aircraft engines? What does a physics professor know about bricklaying? What does the average citizen know about the EU? Nothing, so why would you ask them to vote on it? Leave it to the people who do know. A functioning democracy is simply about the people choosing someone to make the complex decisions they cant on the understanding they know what they're doing, and voting them out if it turns out they don't. Thats what democracy was originally set up for. We have a healthy respresentative democracy unaffected by the EU vote. Direct democracy has proven itself a failure again and can be safely ignored. Wedid have representative democracy as you describe. Both Blair and Cameron previously set out to offere referendums. Did they know what they were doing. Did Cameron know what he was doing when wegot this one. I understand what you are saying but its not as straight cut as that. The point is the vote can be ignored without damaging democracy. It's a different type of democracy and one probably best ignored and consigned to the history books, at least on major issues like this.
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Post by Gods on Jun 28, 2016 15:22:36 GMT
Wedid have representative democracy as you describe. Both Blair and Cameron previously set out to offere referendums. Did they know what they were doing. Did Cameron know what he was doing when wegot this one. I understand what you are saying but its not as straight cut as that. The point is the vote can be ignored without damaging democracy. It's a different type of democracy and one probably best ignored and consigned to the history books, at least on major issues like this. It's true you can't mix our political system where we appoint professional MP's to make decisions for us and you vote them out if you don't like what they do with referenda. The reason is you risk ending up with a situation like this. Our MP's are invited to implement vandalistic change which most of them know will wreck peoples lives. They just don't have the heart for it and are looking for an 'out'.
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 28, 2016 15:32:54 GMT
The point is the vote can be ignored without damaging democracy. It's a different type of democracy and one probably best ignored and consigned to the history books, at least on major issues like this. It's true you can't mix our political system where we appoint professional MP's to make decisions for us and you vote them out if you don't like what they do with referenda. The reason is you risk ending up with a situation like this. Our MP's are invited to implement vandalistic change which most of them know will wreck peoples lives. They just don't have the heart for it and are looking for an 'out'. Disagree on the last bit. We have career politicians now looking purely to placate the most people and keep their votes safe. The referendum was a political play that backfired. We don't have anyone willing to take bold decisions on their own for the good of the country.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jun 28, 2016 15:53:03 GMT
The point is the vote can be ignored without damaging democracy. It's a different type of democracy and one probably best ignored and consigned to the history books, at least on major issues like this. It's true you can't mix our political system where we appoint professional MP's to make decisions for us and you vote them out if you don't like what they do with referenda. The reason is you risk ending up with a situation like this. Our MP's are invited to implement vandalistic change which most of them know will wreck peoples lives. They just don't have the heart for it and are looking for an 'out'. Why didn't they refuse to countenance a referendum, then? On the principal that it would ruin the country? They thought they would walk it, that's why. And because most of them have no principles.
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Post by Gods on Jun 28, 2016 15:58:29 GMT
It's true you can't mix our political system where we appoint professional MP's to make decisions for us and you vote them out if you don't like what they do with referenda. The reason is you risk ending up with a situation like this. Our MP's are invited to implement vandalistic change which most of them know will wreck peoples lives. They just don't have the heart for it and are looking for an 'out'. Why didn't they refuse to countenance a referendum, then? On the principal that it would ruin the country? They thought they would walk it, that's why. And because most of them have no principles. Yes agreed, they took what seemed the easy route at the time to appease UKIP and it has back-fired in a terrible way. Cameron said in the campaign that brexit would be like planting a bomb under the economy so you may well ask given that why the hell did he offer a referendum ?
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 28, 2016 18:40:35 GMT
Correction, prime minister Hunt Reckons a 2nd referendum on a Norway style system + controlled immigration before they enter talks with the eu Like the eu will go with that Grab them by the bollocks and their hearts and minds will follow I'm simply staggered that after all the campaigning the plan is to have access to the single market, I really hoped there was more of a plan than that. It's not possible to have controlled immigration if we want access to the single market, the EU have made their stance clear on this with Switzerland. The single market is open to the world , everyone exports. To it , China , America , and so will the uk
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