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Post by Pugsley on Jun 21, 2016 17:54:27 GMT
I think Hodgson getting us to the last 8 is an equivalent achievement as Mark Hughes getting Stoke to 9th in the PL. OK Kempo.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 21, 2016 17:56:52 GMT
But that is exactly my point, Rob. We place unrealistic expectations on England at tournaments simply not based on facts (a home win, a home close call and a rather fortunate run in 1990 notwithstanding). I expected us to get out of the group (which we did), but had no confidence we would not find a way to lose one game (which we didn't) or that we would top the group (which we did not). I expect us to sneak through the next round, where the draw looks like being pretty kind to us, and then lose to France. That is not defeatism, it is simply realism. Why is it unrealistic to expect us to top a group containing Wales, Slovakia and a dreadful Russia team? It's unrealistic to expect us to win it or even reach the semis. It's not unreasonable to expect us to finish ahead of a bunch of no-marks. I am sure I don't have to remind you of the results against the likes of Republic of Ireland, Egypt, Romania, Costa Rica etc. in tournament play over the last 20 years or so. We over-achieve in qualifying (most times) and then usually under-achieve in tournaments. This is what I expect.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 21, 2016 18:10:33 GMT
England should be reaching the last four of these tournaments regularly. The fact that we just don't have the leadership, coaching, number of coaches throughout the country is a total shambles that has lasted for years but which is being remedied. The lack of courage, mental toughness, intelligence, tactical nouse amongst English players and managers will only be sorted when we get more and better coaches. We are the biggest embarrassment in world football
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 18:16:35 GMT
Why is it unrealistic to expect us to top a group containing Wales, Slovakia and a dreadful Russia team? It's unrealistic to expect us to win it or even reach the semis. It's not unreasonable to expect us to finish ahead of a bunch of no-marks. I am sure I don't have to remind you of the results against the likes of Republic of Ireland, Egypt, Romania, Costa Rica etc. in tournament play over the last 20 years or so. We over-achieve in qualifying (most times) and then usually under-achieve in tournaments. This is what I expect. But a national side with the players we've got should be finishing top of that group regardless. Let's not act as if that's pie in the sky unreasonable, just because we've fucked up in the past.
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Post by chad on Jun 21, 2016 18:33:49 GMT
I think Hodgson getting us to the last 8 is an equivalent achievement as Mark Hughes getting Stoke to 9th in the PL. Seriously ......
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Post by milky on Jun 21, 2016 18:57:10 GMT
I think Hodgson getting us to the last 8 is an equivalent achievement as Mark Hughes getting Stoke to 9th in the PL. Quite simply he should have gone after the fiasco of the last world cup..Other managers fell on their swords for doing better..He has proved he is fine at getting through the qualification groups but when it comes to major tournaments he is out of his depth. Unless you think finishing bottom of that group in 2014 was about all we should have expected?
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 21, 2016 19:07:46 GMT
I am sure I don't have to remind you of the results against the likes of Republic of Ireland, Egypt, Romania, Costa Rica etc. in tournament play over the last 20 years or so. We over-achieve in qualifying (most times) and then usually under-achieve in tournaments. This is what I expect. But a national side with the players we've got should be finishing top of that group regardless. Let's not act as if that's pie in the sky unreasonable, just because we've fucked up in the past. On paper, of course you are right, with our multi-millionaire "superstars", but we play on grass, and we are shit on that at major tournament after major tournament! We haven't just fucked up in the past, we have fucked up virtually every single time in the past. This is not a one off, it is a habit we show no sign of breaking.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Jun 21, 2016 19:22:46 GMT
Useless buffoon, should have gone after the last world cup :-)
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 21, 2016 19:28:48 GMT
But a national side with the players we've got should be finishing top of that group regardless. Let's not act as if that's pie in the sky unreasonable, just because we've fucked up in the past. On paper, of course you are right, with our multi-millionaire "superstars", but we play on grass, and we are shit on that at major tournament after major tournament! We haven't just fucked up in the past, we have fucked up virtually every single time in the past. This is not a one off, it is a habit we show no sign of breaking. Just because it's not a one-of doesn't make it unrealistic though Jezza. It's a damning indictment of us that the bar is set so low.
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Post by geoff321 on Jun 21, 2016 19:33:20 GMT
To date in this competition England have played 13 games, won 11, drawn 2, lost 0. The opposition might not be the strongest and some of the performances not great, but if Hodgson gets us to the last 8 history will be relatively kind to him and it compares well to some other England managers.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jun 21, 2016 21:55:02 GMT
On paper, of course you are right, with our multi-millionaire "superstars", but we play on grass, and we are shit on that at major tournament after major tournament! We haven't just fucked up in the past, we have fucked up virtually every single time in the past. This is not a one off, it is a habit we show no sign of breaking. Just because it's not a one-of doesn't make it unrealistic though Jezza. It's a damning indictment of us that the bar is set so low. I think we can both agree on that one! We should do much better, but we say that every two years and nothing happens to change the fact that, whilst we may have the richest league, with some of the best players in the world, we continue to have a mediocre national team.
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