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Post by gezzer on Apr 27, 2016 7:45:06 GMT
Currently standing at -14, for a top 10 Premier League team it really is appalling. Is it lack of goals or poor the defence that should be the top priority in sorting?
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Post by upthefud on Apr 27, 2016 7:46:37 GMT
Even more worryingly, the answer to your question appears to be both
(Lowest scorers in the top 11, most conceded in the top 13)
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 27, 2016 7:55:34 GMT
Surely the issue is not GD but the failure to create sufficient goal scoring opportunities, and when we do, the poor conversion rate of chances into goals. Stats someone?
Examples are: On Saturday Stoke actually had 14 shots compared to ManC's 11 but only 2 of ours were on target, whereas 6 of their's were on target and 4 were goals.
In the previous 2 matches Stoke had only 2/3 shots on target; we are not making the opposition goal keeper work.
Our performance at set pieces is abysmal affecting the goal difference both ways; none scored, too many conceded.
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Post by nutterpotter on Apr 27, 2016 8:10:52 GMT
Points matter. Not goal difference.
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Post by upthefud on Apr 27, 2016 8:20:12 GMT
Points matter. Not goal difference. Well it's worth a point in the long run but I kind of agree. It does highlight that we have pretty serious issues that need addressing though. Our goals against is especially concerning seeing as our best player has been our GK |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Apr 27, 2016 8:20:24 GMT
Points matter. Not goal difference. Try telling Norwich, Sunderland & Newcastle that now!!!  I think they'd say BOTH were just as important!!! |
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Post by scfcwebby on Apr 27, 2016 8:28:00 GMT
Take the last 3 freak games out and we are -3, still not good enough but not the disaster that it is now!
We do need to strengthen both in the summer, we desperately need that quality CF that has been missing for some time now and we need a top quality CB to partner a fully fit Ryan!
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Apr 27, 2016 10:17:57 GMT
Take the last 3 freak games out and we are -3, still not good enough but not the disaster that it is now! We do need to strengthen both in the summer, we desperately need that quality CF that has been missing for some time now and we need a top quality CB to partner a fully fit Ryan! You can't just eliminate 3 wank results (the worst 3 in this case) they happened and our GD is shite partly because of it but mainly because we've been shit defending, can't score from a corner and can't defend one, lack creativity and we're not converting the chances we do make. There are reasons for this but I'll reserve my opinion for another time. Gouranga.  |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 27, 2016 10:39:24 GMT
We need to find a way of getting points when we concede the 1st goal.
Yet to win this season when concede 1st. Yet to lose when we score 1st.
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Post by Gods on Apr 27, 2016 11:03:40 GMT
Points matter. Not goal difference. Yes but ultimately there is a correlation between the two. As the stats above show we have been amazingly efficient this season in converting the precious few goals we score in to points and not 'wasting' too many goals during our many drubbings. I am not sure that is sustainable in the longer term though. |
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Post by pottermouth on Apr 27, 2016 12:16:53 GMT
Take the last 3 freak games out and we are -3, still not good enough but not the disaster that it is now! We do need to strengthen both in the summer, we desperately need that quality CF that has been missing for some time now and we need a top quality CB to partner a fully fit Ryan! I think we play too open and it leaves us vulnerable when we concede the opening goal. When we chase a game we have not once this season turned a 1-0 deficit to a win. Also if we want to address our horrific goal difference then we need to defend as a team. Too many have gone missing in their defensive duties these last few games. |
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Post by ChesterStokie on Apr 27, 2016 12:25:00 GMT
Points matter. Not goal difference. Well it's worth a point in the long run but I kind of agree. It does highlight that we have pretty serious issues that need addressing though. Our goals against is especially concerning seeing as our best player has been our GK No it's worth less than a point. About half a point is more accurate. |
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Post by LGH87 on Apr 27, 2016 12:33:00 GMT
With regards to the goals for column the fact that he's used 5 different players at Centre Forward this season speaks volumes.
He doesn't seem to particularly have any faith in any of them and that blame lies solely at his own feet.
Spending £7m on a striker that had only scored 8 goals in the bundesliga was a mistake.
Crouch is past it and shouldn't have been offered an extension.
Walters can look great one game and be totally ineffective the next 5.
Bojan, the false 9 has worked spectacularly and has failed spectacularly, with Afellay's injury I think we will see the end of this way of thinking for now and Bojan will be reinstated back in to his rightful no.10 role.
Diouf, after a decent start to his Stoke career last season this season for one reason or another such as his mother's death and Hughes apparent lack of faith in him have all contributed in a stop start season.
For me personally, until we sign a striker that is capable of finding the net with some form of regularity, Diouf MUST START up top.
Yes he has his faults, yes he misses chances but he is the ONLY striker on our books that consistently gets himself in the positions to miss those chances, add in the fact that his sheer pace and work ethic means defences tend to defend ten yards deeper than they do against any of our other strikers allows Bojan, Arnie & Shaq more time and space to wreak havoc.
Moving on to the defence, Glen Johnson has been a big miss both offensively and defensively, a right back with similar qualities is an absolute must in the summer given Glenn's age. His overlapping runs also see Shaqiri to a much greater effect.
Centre halves, we need two. Jury is still out on Muniesa, Cameron is not quite good enough, Wilson I expect will leave, Wollscheid despite some good performances is NOT the answer and Ryan may struggle to ever regain his top form.
Left back, fuck knows what has happened to Pieters, he was potential player of the season material up until the second half against Man Utd on boxing day, since then he's been dire. Regardless of Pieters finding form again or not we still need another left back as Muniesa just isn't adequate cover there.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 27, 2016 12:47:32 GMT
Take the last 3 freak games out and we are -3, still not good enough but not the disaster that it is now! We do need to strengthen both in the summer, we desperately need that quality CF that has been missing for some time now and we need a top quality CB to partner a fully fit Ryan! I think we play too open and it leaves us vulnerable when we concede the opening goal. When we chase a game we have not once this season turned a 1-0 deficit to a win. Also if we want to address our horrific goal difference then we need to defend as a team. Too many have gone missing in their defensive duties these last few games. Including the CB's, Ryan should not be playing he is nowhere fit enough due to his fitness, the other CB should not be playing but for different reasons, but this is down to the manager. |
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Post by kustokie on Apr 27, 2016 12:50:21 GMT
I assumed that goals from set pieces would be the difference but I also like to see data. According to whoscored.com Stoke have scored 6 from set pieces (I didn't think it was that many) and only Swansea have less with 4. The median value is 12 and the highest is 19. So that appears to be only part of the problem. I am interested in stats on goals conceded from set pieces if anyone has that information. I don't know how reliable whoscored.com is and I'd be interested if anyone has any better sources.
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Post by mcf on Apr 27, 2016 13:33:31 GMT
With regards to the goals for column the fact that he's used 5 different players at Centre Forward this season speaks volumes. He doesn't seem to particularly have any faith in any of them and that blame lies solely at his own feet. Spending £7m on a striker that had only scored 8 goals in the bundesliga was a mistake. Crouch is past it and shouldn't have been offered an extension. Walters can look great one game and be totally ineffective the next 5. Bojan, the false 9 has worked spectacularly and has failed spectacularly, with Afellay's injury I think we will see the end of this way of thinking for now and Bojan will be reinstated back in to his rightful no.10 role. Diouf, after a decent start to his Stoke career last season this season for one reason or another such as his mother's death and Hughes apparent lack of faith in him have all contributed in a stop start season. For me personally, until we sign a striker that is capable of finding the net with some form of regularity, Diouf MUST START up top. Yes he has his faults, yes he misses chances but he is the ONLY striker on our books that consistently gets himself in the positions to miss those chances, add in the fact that his sheer pace and work ethic means defences tend to defend ten yards deeper than they do against any of our other strikers allows Bojan, Arnie & Shaq more time and space to wreak havoc. Moving on to the defence, Glen Johnson has been a big miss both offensively and defensively, a right back with similar qualities is an absolute must in the summer given Glenn's age. His overlapping runs also see Shaqiri to a much greater effect. Centre halves, we need two. Jury is still out on Muniesa, Cameron is not quite good enough, Wilson I expect will leave, Wollscheid despite some good performances is NOT the answer and Ryan may struggle to ever regain his top form. Left back, fuck knows what has happened to Pieters, he was potential player of the season material up until the second half against Man Utd on boxing day, since then he's been dire. Regardless of Pieters finding form again or not we still need another left back as Muniesa just isn't adequate cover there. I think there is a lot of truth in this. |
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Post by chrispk76 on Apr 27, 2016 13:42:34 GMT
Take the last 3 freak games out and we are -3, still not good enough but not the disaster that it is now! We do need to strengthen both in the summer, we desperately need that quality CF that has been missing for some time now and we need a top quality CB to partner a fully fit Ryan! Can we take the 3 freak results of Leicester , man u , Everton 3-0 x 3 games on the trot as well. That's 6 games -21 + 0 so our stats will look a hell of a lot better |
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Post by vahl on Apr 27, 2016 13:42:56 GMT
With regards to the goals for column the fact that he's used 5 different players at Centre Forward this season speaks volumes. He doesn't seem to particularly have any faith in any of them and that blame lies solely at his own feet. Spending £7m on a striker that had only scored 8 goals in the bundesliga was a mistake. Crouch is past it and shouldn't have been offered an extension. Walters can look great one game and be totally ineffective the next 5. Bojan, the false 9 has worked spectacularly and has failed spectacularly, with Afellay's injury I think we will see the end of this way of thinking for now and Bojan will be reinstated back in to his rightful no.10 role. Diouf, after a decent start to his Stoke career last season this season for one reason or another such as his mother's death and Hughes apparent lack of faith in him have all contributed in a stop start season. For me personally, until we sign a striker that is capable of finding the net with some form of regularity, Diouf MUST START up top. Yes he has his faults, yes he misses chances but he is the ONLY striker on our books that consistently gets himself in the positions to miss those chances, add in the fact that his sheer pace and work ethic means defences tend to defend ten yards deeper than they do against any of our other strikers allows Bojan, Arnie & Shaq more time and space to wreak havoc. Moving on to the defence, Glen Johnson has been a big miss both offensively and defensively, a right back with similar qualities is an absolute must in the summer given Glenn's age. His overlapping runs also see Shaqiri to a much greater effect. Centre halves, we need two. Jury is still out on Muniesa, Cameron is not quite good enough, Wilson I expect will leave, Wollscheid despite some good performances is NOT the answer and Ryan may struggle to ever regain his top form. Left back, fuck knows what has happened to Pieters, he was potential player of the season material up until the second half against Man Utd on boxing day, since then he's been dire. Regardless of Pieters finding form again or not we still need another left back as Muniesa just isn't adequate cover there. That's about it. Well said. Really. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 14:03:27 GMT
With regards to the goals for column the fact that he's used 5 different players at Centre Forward this season speaks volumes. He doesn't seem to particularly have any faith in any of them and that blame lies solely at his own feet. Spending £7m on a striker that had only scored 8 goals in the bundesliga was a mistake. Crouch is past it and shouldn't have been offered an extension. Walters can look great one game and be totally ineffective the next 5. Bojan, the false 9 has worked spectacularly and has failed spectacularly, with Afellay's injury I think we will see the end of this way of thinking for now and Bojan will be reinstated back in to his rightful no.10 role. Diouf, after a decent start to his Stoke career last season this season for one reason or another such as his mother's death and Hughes apparent lack of faith in him have all contributed in a stop start season. For me personally, until we sign a striker that is capable of finding the net with some form of regularity, Diouf MUST START up top. Yes he has his faults, yes he misses chances but he is the ONLY striker on our books that consistently gets himself in the positions to miss those chances, add in the fact that his sheer pace and work ethic means defences tend to defend ten yards deeper than they do against any of our other strikers allows Bojan, Arnie & Shaq more time and space to wreak havoc. Moving on to the defence, Glen Johnson has been a big miss both offensively and defensively, a right back with similar qualities is an absolute must in the summer given Glenn's age. His overlapping runs also see Shaqiri to a much greater effect. Centre halves, we need two. Jury is still out on Muniesa, Cameron is not quite good enough, Wilson I expect will leave, Wollscheid despite some good performances is NOT the answer and Ryan may struggle to ever regain his top form. Left back, fuck knows what has happened to Pieters, he was potential player of the season material up until the second half against Man Utd on boxing day, since then he's been dire. Regardless of Pieters finding form again or not we still need another left back as Muniesa just isn't adequate cover there. Agree with most of this, but we all know it will not happen, we'll bid big for a decent striker, then won't get him, hope to get everyone fit at the back, leading to the very same problems next season and splash out on a mid fielder who can double up as a winger and does Sundays entertaining kids at the Community Centre but excels at none.
I might be a miserable, pessimistic git but age has taught me there is a reason we never win anything at Stoke and sitting on the fence hoping where players are concerned is the biggest reason.
I'd be happy with Crouch and Diouf gone replaced by a decent (not record breaking) 15 million pound goal scorer, preferably German with a right leg like a cannon.
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Post by scfcwebby on Apr 27, 2016 14:47:31 GMT
Take the last 3 freak games out and we are -3, still not good enough but not the disaster that it is now! We do need to strengthen both in the summer, we desperately need that quality CF that has been missing for some time now and we need a top quality CB to partner a fully fit Ryan! Can we take the 3 freak results of Leicester , man u , Everton 3-0 x 3 games on the trot as well. That's 6 games -21 + 0 so our stats will look a hell of a lot better As i said in my OP it's not good enough and Im not implying that it is but we have had rotten luck with injuries and are on the back of 3 crushing defeats! We need to add quality at both ends of the field in the summer, thats the bottom line! |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 27, 2016 17:14:49 GMT
3 wins by 5 clear goals in each, will put us in the + GD.  |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 27, 2016 18:08:47 GMT
Thank God - I thought this was going to be some crazy post about Guernsey Dave!  |
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Post by tachyon on Apr 27, 2016 19:06:51 GMT
I assumed that goals from set pieces would be the difference but I also like to see data. According to whoscored.com Stoke have scored 6 from set pieces (I didn't think it was that many) and only Swansea have less with 4. The median value is 12 and the highest is 19. So that appears to be only part of the problem. I am interested in stats on goals conceded from set pieces if anyone has that information. I don't know how reliable whoscored.com is and I'd be interested if anyone has any better sources. |
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Post by rawli on Apr 27, 2016 19:51:03 GMT
Thought it was going to be about Guernsey Dave. Disappointing.
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Post by rawli on Apr 27, 2016 19:51:31 GMT
Double post.
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Post by gezzer on Apr 27, 2016 19:59:10 GMT
So as most agree GD is important especially when the Season has seen so many Teams on or close to equal Points, as GD can mean the difference between 2 or 3 places.
Agreed we do need a bit of a spending spree which points to Striker in the region of £15-£20 mill otherwise back to square one with mediocre players and a big look at the back line as that has been a problem all Season really. Also I hope Sparky can make his mind up who plays where as this constant change of roles for players can't help.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 19:59:29 GMT
For a team that used to pride itself on it's defence especially at home, our defending has been very forgettable this season.
Needs addressing in the summer, the amount of injuries we've had can't be ignored though.
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Post by samba :) on Apr 27, 2016 20:04:34 GMT
Take the last 3 freak games out and we are -3, still not good enough but not the disaster that it is now! We do need to strengthen both in the summer, we desperately need that quality CF that has been missing for some time now and we need a top quality CB to partner a fully fit Ryan! take the last 280(ish) minutes out its only minus one and two points better off |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 20:05:57 GMT
Thank God - I thought this was going to be some crazy post about Guernsey Dave! I heard he is a bit of a cunt ! GD |
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Post by trentvale68 on Apr 27, 2016 20:19:26 GMT
It isn't impossible for Everton to catch us on points if we don't pick much more up
That GD could cost a top 10 place
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