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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 5:42:05 GMT
This could be a knee jerk reaction to the past few games, but watching this tippy tappy crap is beginning to wind me up. Against Man City Saturday, we were 4 down and all we were doing is passing it between our defenders, no urgency getting the ball forward, yes the game was lost but even so, still had time left on the clock so should compete to the end, I also get if no one is moving ahead to pass it too, then it's pointless also. But we are trying to be like the goons, play possession stuff but we are extremely soft, just like the goons.
I'd much prefer to play how Man Utd played under fergie. Fast, direct, powerful and I don't think it would cost that much compared to the price to play like the goons play. I'm not saying we would dominate the league as Man Utd did just get the philosophy that had.
We have a decent keeper, we need a lb that is quick, (Galloway from Everton maybe) if Johnson is going to suffer with injuries because of his age, then Coleman (again from Everton) Song doesn't seem to get a game at West Ham at the moment. Have Imbula in the scholes role, shift Arnie into the role Cantona played, maybe Townsend from castle to play on the left as giggs did, just direct attacking running, shaq to play like becks did, he doesn't seem to have the pace to beat his man, but if our rb ran past him, that would give him space to cross,
I just don't want us to be like the goons and how they play, want to walk every ball into the net.
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Post by chrisparker on Apr 26, 2016 6:15:52 GMT
This could be a knee jerk reaction to the past few games, but watching this tippy tappy crap is beginning to wind me up. Against Man City Saturday, we were 4 down and all we were doing is passing it between our defenders, no urgency getting the ball forward, yes the game was lost but even so, still had time left on the clock so should compete to the end, I also get if no one is moving ahead to pass it too, then it's pointless also. But we are trying to be like the goons, play possession stuff but we are extremely soft, just like the goons. I'd much prefer to play how Man Utd played under fergie. Fast, direct, powerful and I don't think it would cost that much compared to the price to play like the goons play. I'm not saying we would dominate the league as Man Utd did just get the philosophy that had. We have a decent keeper, we need a lb that is quick, (Galloway from Everton maybe) if Johnson is going to suffer with injuries because of his age, then Coleman (again from Everton) Song doesn't seem to get a game at West Ham at the moment. Have Imbula in the scholes role, shift Arnie into the role Cantona played, maybe Townsend from castle to play on the left as giggs did, just direct attacking running, shaq to play like becks did, he doesn't seem to have the pace to beat his man, but if our rb ran past him, that would give him space to cross, I just don't want us to be like the goons and how they play, want to walk every ball into the net. Oh like no one has ever thought of that before. The problem is to play like United under Fergie, you need to have players like Fergie did. Our squad under Pulis was arguably the slowest in the league. Recent transfers have brought some pace in the side but we're nowhere close to replicating the pink one's blistering counter attacking football. Each team has to play to its strengths. And one a side note, why would Galloway & Coleman leave Everton to come to Stoke when Everton can pay a far higher wage than we can. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 6:24:46 GMT
This could be a knee jerk reaction to the past few games, but watching this tippy tappy crap is beginning to wind me up. Against Man City Saturday, we were 4 down and all we were doing is passing it between our defenders, no urgency getting the ball forward, yes the game was lost but even so, still had time left on the clock so should compete to the end, I also get if no one is moving ahead to pass it too, then it's pointless also. But we are trying to be like the goons, play possession stuff but we are extremely soft, just like the goons. I'd much prefer to play how Man Utd played under fergie. Fast, direct, powerful and I don't think it would cost that much compared to the price to play like the goons play. I'm not saying we would dominate the league as Man Utd did just get the philosophy that had. We have a decent keeper, we need a lb that is quick, (Galloway from Everton maybe) if Johnson is going to suffer with injuries because of his age, then Coleman (again from Everton) Song doesn't seem to get a game at West Ham at the moment. Have Imbula in the scholes role, shift Arnie into the role Cantona played, maybe Townsend from castle to play on the left as giggs did, just direct attacking running, shaq to play like becks did, he doesn't seem to have the pace to beat his man, but if our rb ran past him, that would give him space to cross, I just don't want us to be like the goons and how they play, want to walk every ball into the net. Oh like no one has ever thought of that before. The problem is to play like United under Fergie, you need to have players like Fergie did. Our squad under Pulis was arguably the slowest in the league. Recent transfers have brought some pace in the side but we're nowhere close to replicating the pink one's blistering counter attacking football. Each team has to play to its strengths. And one a side note, why would Galloway & Coleman leave Everton to come to Stoke when Everton can pay a far higher wage than we can. Maybe by offering stability of a club, Everton have just been taken over, their places could be under threat from new money at the club |
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Post by sportsman on Apr 26, 2016 6:29:43 GMT
Can't believe people are not bright enough to realise when 4-0 down, keeping the ball is damage limitation. Why go pouring forward and risk losing more. With about 5 minutes to go keeping the ball is the best choice given our form.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 7:08:10 GMT
Can't believe people are not bright enough to realise when 4-0 down, keeping the ball is damage limitation. Why go pouring forward and risk losing more. With about 5 minutes to go keeping the ball is the best choice given our form. I must have been taught different how to play, I'd have got slated and dropped if I gave up no matter what the score. The players get paid huge amounts, the fans give their hard earned money to see their team give their all until the end, if your 4-0 up or 4-0 down I still expect to play hard until the end. |
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Post by Menorca Stokie on Apr 26, 2016 7:18:16 GMT
Or we could just take the tippy tapey style to the next level, emulate Barcelona and rule the world?
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Apr 26, 2016 7:28:24 GMT
Or we could just take the tippy tapey style to the next level, emulate Barcelona and rule the world? Why use mere treble winners as the yardstick,Brazil 70's the template surely?!..... |
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 26, 2016 7:52:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 7:59:55 GMT
I'd also like us to play like Barca, but we just dont have the players for it...which is kinda the point.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 26, 2016 8:02:13 GMT
Can't believe people are not bright enough to realise when 4-0 down, keeping the ball is damage limitation. Why go pouring forward and risk losing more. With about 5 minutes to go keeping the ball is the best choice given our form. I must have been taught different how to play, I'd have got slated and dropped if I gave up no matter what the score. The players get paid huge amounts, the fans give their hard earned money to see their team give their all until the end, if your 4-0 up or 4-0 down I still expect to play hard until the end. Tin hat on here. Our players didn't give up. They tried their best and their best wasn't good enough. It hasn't been for a few weeks. We've lost 3 games on the trot 4-0 which doesn't make for pleasant viewing. There is no escaping or hiding from that fact. However, we were well in the game at Liverpool, were arguably the better side first half and we lost courtesy of 3 errors from a rookie goalkeeper. Tottenham mullered us but we didn't not try. We had very decent spells in the game but on the night they were exceptional and took the game away from us. On Saturday, again, we started the game well. We missed easy chances to take the lead and we conceded two very soft goals. We came out second half and missed 3 glorious chances and then got caught on the counter attack to go 3-0 down. Game over. We have played far worse than we've done in the last 3 games and won a game. Equally, we have played far better and lost. I don't want to dwell on he who can't be mentioned but he sets his teams up not to lose. In similar games, at 2-0 down, he'd happily defend a 2-0 defeat. Yes we got the occasional drubbing but for the most part, aesthetically at least, results never looked so bad even when we lost. The current manager is totally different. If we are losing, we try to get back in the game. We did it against Liverpool and ended up getting a hiding. We did it against Tottenham and got a thumping and we could and should have got ourselves back in the game on Saturday and ended up being drubbed. It's really a question of what people want. I don't want to go to these places scared of our own shadow. I want us to go and have a go. If that means we get a thumping every now and then, so be it. I was as frustrated as anyone on Saturday but the reality is we've been decimated by injuries and even the players that are starting aren't fit. We've lost key players for key periods of time and when you put that into the mix together with the devastating penalty defeat at Anfield at the end of January, it is easy to see why we've lost our way a little bit. Losing Affelay is a major blow to morale because the injuries seem never ending. Hughes reaction to Given's injury at the weekend was telling. I'm sure he's as frustrated as anyone. The season isn't over. Hopefully we can rally and pick up 7 points that would see us at least match last seasons total. 3 wins aren't beyond us. |
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Post by wuzza on Apr 26, 2016 8:07:22 GMT
I must have been taught different how to play, I'd have got slated and dropped if I gave up no matter what the score. The players get paid huge amounts, the fans give their hard earned money to see their team give their all until the end, if your 4-0 up or 4-0 down I still expect to play hard until the end. Tin hat on here. Our players didn't give up. They tried their best and their best wasn't good enough. It hasn't been for a few weeks. We've lost 3 games on the trot 4-0 which doesn't make for pleasant viewing. There is no escaping or hiding from that fact. However, we were well in the game at Liverpool, were arguably the better side first half and we lost courtesy of 3 errors from a rookie goalkeeper. Tottenham mullered us but we didn't not try. We had very decent spells in the game but on the night they were exceptional and took the game away from us. On Saturday, again, we started the game well. We missed easy chances to take the lead and we conceded two very soft goals. We came out second half and missed 3 glorious chances and then got caught on the counter attack to go 3-0 down. Game over. We have played far worse than we've done in the last 3 games and won a game. Equally, we have played far better and lost. I don't want to dwell on he who can't be mentioned but he sets his teams up not to lose. In similar games, at 2-0 down, he'd happily defend a 2-0 defeat. Yes we got the occasional drubbing but for the most part, aesthetically at least, results never looked so bad even when we lost. The current manager is totally different. If we are losing, we try to get back in the game. We did it against Liverpool and ended up getting a hiding. We did it against Tottenham and got a thumping and we could and should have got ourselves back in the game on Saturday and ended up being drubbed. It's really a question of what people want. I don't want to go to these places scared of our own shadow. I want us to go and have a go. If that means we get a thumping every now and then, so be it. I was as frustrated as anyone on Saturday but the reality is we've been decimated by injuries and even the players that are starting aren't fit. We've lost key players for key periods of time and when you put that into the mix together with the devastating penalty defeat at Anfield at the end of January, it is easy to see why we've lost our way a little bit. Losing Affelay is a major blow to morale because the injuries seem never ending. Hughes reaction to Given's injury at the weekend was telling. I'm sure he's as frustrated as anyone. The season isn't over. Hopefully we can rally and pick up 7 points that would see us at least match last seasons total. 3 wins aren't beyond us. [/quotte) As far as I'm concerned he has total liberty to do what he wants to win away games and if it comes off all the better. What isn't so forgiveable is his tactical approach to home games which is often ineffective, inflexible and frankly a little dull. |
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Post by reddipotter on Apr 26, 2016 8:10:42 GMT
Possession football has had its day. Teams have found ways to make it ineffective. None of the clubs that have exceeded expectations in the Premier League this season play tippy tappy. Graeme Souness noted this in his Sunday Times article last weekend, though he said that it is a changing trend- I would say that the change has already been made.
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Post by richardparker on Apr 26, 2016 8:33:38 GMT
This could be a knee jerk reaction to the past few games, but watching this tippy tappy crap is beginning to wind me up. Against Man City Saturday, we were 4 down and all we were doing is passing it between our defenders, no urgency getting the ball forward, yes the game was lost but even so, still had time left on the clock so should compete to the end, I also get if no one is moving ahead to pass it too, then it's pointless also. But we are trying to be like the goons, play possession stuff but we are extremely soft, just like the goons. I'd much prefer to play how Man Utd played under fergie. Fast, direct, powerful and I don't think it would cost that much compared to the price to play like the goons play. I'm not saying we would dominate the league as Man Utd did just get the philosophy that had. We have a decent keeper, we need a lb that is quick, (Galloway from Everton maybe) if Johnson is going to suffer with injuries because of his age, then Coleman (again from Everton) Song doesn't seem to get a game at West Ham at the moment. Have Imbula in the scholes role, shift Arnie into the role Cantona played, maybe Townsend from castle to play on the left as giggs did, just direct attacking running, shaq to play like becks did, he doesn't seem to have the pace to beat his man, but if our rb ran past him, that would give him space to cross, I just don't want us to be like the goons and how they play, want to walk every ball into the net. Oh like no one has ever thought of that before. The problem is to play like United under Fergie, you need to have players like Fergie did. Our squad under Pulis was arguably the slowest in the league. Recent transfers have brought some pace in the side but we're nowhere close to replicating the pink one's blistering counter attacking football. Each team has to play to its strengths. And one a side note, why would Galloway & Coleman leave Everton to come to Stoke when Everton can pay a far higher wage than we can. It's a simple philosophy, but really makes total sense ... 'Each team has to play to its strengths'! Knowing what those strengths are, and shaping them to counter what threats the opposition might pose is the 'simple' art of football management. With the injuries we have had, along with the unsettled starting XI put out every week, Hughes has struggled to work out what our strengths actually are. Meanwhile, other teams have quite easily sussed us out, which in turn has affected our confidence and moral, and lead to the heavy defeats of late. It's not a crisis. It just needs a re-think and a squad freshen up - which can be put right during the summer break. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 26, 2016 8:37:06 GMT
Possession football has had its day. Teams have found ways to make it ineffective. None of the clubs that have exceeded expectations in the Premier League this season play tippy tappy. Graeme Souness noted this in his Sunday Times article last weekend, though he said that it is a changing trend- I would say that the change has already been made. The only stats that have ever truly mattered are the goals for and against columns. We have struggled because we've lacked a focal point to our team in the form of an effective centre forward. Take Liverpool as an example. Regardless of klopps approach they generally struggled for consistency. All of a sudden, sturrudge returns to fitness and form and origi finds his feet and they are transformed. Leicester have Vardy, spurs have Kane, man city have aguero. Traditional super powers, manure, Chelsea and arsenal have struggled to reach previous heights...neither of them have had an effective striker as the focal point of their team. Our team would instantly be transformed by an effective and in form centre forward. |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Apr 26, 2016 8:39:55 GMT
Football is moving into a phase where pace and strength aligned with good football will be the characteristic of top teams , I just hope that our next few signings add some of those qualities to our play . Slow football has not been effective this season for way more talented teams than us , its the athletic teams that work and also play good fottball that have done well and I think will be seen as the way to go for the next few years
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Post by ElworthPotter on Apr 26, 2016 8:44:49 GMT
This could be a knee jerk reaction to the past few games, but watching this tippy tappy crap is beginning to wind me up. Against Man City Saturday, we were 4 down and all we were doing is passing it between our defenders, no urgency getting the ball forward, yes the game was lost but even so, still had time left on the clock so should compete to the end, I also get if no one is moving ahead to pass it too, then it's pointless also. But we are trying to be like the goons, play possession stuff but we are extremely soft, just like the goons. I'd much prefer to play how Man Utd played under fergie. Fast, direct, powerful and I don't think it would cost that much compared to the price to play like the goons play. I'm not saying we would dominate the league as Man Utd did just get the philosophy that had. We have a decent keeper, we need a lb that is quick, (Galloway from Everton maybe) if Johnson is going to suffer with injuries because of his age, then Coleman (again from Everton) Song doesn't seem to get a game at West Ham at the moment. Have Imbula in the scholes role, shift Arnie into the role Cantona played, maybe Townsend from castle to play on the left as giggs did, just direct attacking running, shaq to play like becks did, he doesn't seem to have the pace to beat his man, but if our rb ran past him, that would give him space to cross, I just don't want us to be like the goons and how they play, want to walk every ball into the net. Seamus Coleman is one of the best full backs in the league imo. If/when he leaves Everton it will be to a club much higher up the league than 10th |
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Post by chrisparker on Apr 26, 2016 9:17:17 GMT
Oh like no one has ever thought of that before. The problem is to play like United under Fergie, you need to have players like Fergie did. Our squad under Pulis was arguably the slowest in the league. Recent transfers have brought some pace in the side but we're nowhere close to replicating the pink one's blistering counter attacking football. Each team has to play to its strengths. And one a side note, why would Galloway & Coleman leave Everton to come to Stoke when Everton can pay a far higher wage than we can. It's a simple philosophy, but really makes total sense ... 'Each team has to play to its strengths'! Knowing what those strengths are, and shaping them to counter what threats the opposition might pose is the 'simple' art of football management. With the injuries we have had, along with the unsettled starting XI put out every week, Hughes has struggled to work out what our strengths actually are. Meanwhile, other teams have quite easily sussed us out, which in turn has affected our confidence and moral, and lead to the heavy defeats of late. It's not a crisis. It just needs a re-think and a squad freshen up - which can be put right during the summer break. Yes this is spot on. Unfortunately we'll have another different starting 11 next week with 2 more injuries. |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 26, 2016 9:31:09 GMT
I think the Man City game is an odd one to choose to make the point about tippy tappy possession based football. Yes, we all know that the side lacks pace and we all know that our defending has been pretty shocking in the second half of the season - not helped, of course by an horrendous injury record.
But, we probably created more good chances on Saturday than we have done at Man City in any of the 8 years since we got promoted. We scored 0 on Saturday not because of tippy tappy football, or because the players didn't care, but because we missed every one of about 6 decent or very good chances. If you do that against a top 4 side you are likely to sink without trace, whatever style of play you adopt.
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Apr 26, 2016 10:13:00 GMT
Possession football has had its day. Teams have found ways to make it ineffective. None of the clubs that have exceeded expectations in the Premier League this season play tippy tappy. Graeme Souness noted this in his Sunday Times article last weekend, though he said that it is a changing trend- I would say that the change has already been made. The only stats that have ever truly mattered are the goals for and against columns. We have struggled because we've lacked a focal point to our team in the form of an effective centre forward. Take Liverpool as an example. Regardless of klopps approach they generally struggled for consistency. All of a sudden, sturrudge returns to fitness and form and origi finds his feet and they are transformed. Leicester have Vardy, spurs have Kane, man city have aguero. Traditional super powers, manure, Chelsea and arsenal have struggled to reach previous heights...neither of them have had an effective striker as the focal point of their team. Our team would instantly be transformed by an effective and in form centre forward. Maybe if the manager didn't continually change our so called focal point the team might get used to playing together |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 26, 2016 10:30:47 GMT
The only stats that have ever truly mattered are the goals for and against columns. We have struggled because we've lacked a focal point to our team in the form of an effective centre forward. Take Liverpool as an example. Regardless of klopps approach they generally struggled for consistency. All of a sudden, sturrudge returns to fitness and form and origi finds his feet and they are transformed. Leicester have Vardy, spurs have Kane, man city have aguero. Traditional super powers, manure, Chelsea and arsenal have struggled to reach previous heights...neither of them have had an effective striker as the focal point of their team. Our team would instantly be transformed by an effective and in form centre forward. Maybe if the manager didn't continually change our so called focal point the team might get used to playing together Maybe. Perhaps if he'd signed a decent striker out of the two he was responsible for bringing to the club, we could actually have that focal point. Perhaps had Diouf not endured such personal tragedy, we would have that focal point. He did start the season with 3 goals from 7 starts afterall. Point the finger of blame in any number of directions but the lack of an effective forward has hampered us massively. In truth, our forward options have been pretty damn dreadful and none of them, when they've been given the chance, have truly earned an extended run in the team. |
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Post by gingerninja on Apr 26, 2016 11:12:33 GMT
Agreed. Joselu isn't strong enough at holding the ball up I am afraid although not as poor as Crouch is. Saturday Kone & Kaboul will be a tough uncompromising pair so heaven only knows how we will combat that. Walters would suit best but would he be fit to start. We need a Bony type physical presence I feel.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 26, 2016 11:24:34 GMT
Agreed. Joselu isn't strong enough at holding the ball up I am afraid although not as poor as Crouch is. Saturday Kone & Kaboul will be a tough uncompromising pair so heaven only knows how we will combat that. Walters would suit best but would he be fit to start. We need a Bony type physical presence I feel. I like Bony or at least I did when he was at Swansea. He is fairly one dimensional as well though in that he seemingly has absolutely no pace to speak of, hence no ability to run in behind and stretch teams. Hopefully Hughes can find the striker that will give us all we need, the most important thing of which will be a consistent goal threat and goals...preferably lots of them. |
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Post by gingerninja on Apr 26, 2016 11:49:32 GMT
I am concerned still with the Berahanio links. Not sure how he would fit in our system. Santa Cruz was I imagine the type Hughes prefers yet Diouf nor Joselu are in that mould. It's going to be a big summer I think. How many do we think we are going to get rid of?
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