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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 18, 2016 11:55:39 GMT
I take the lack of fight, spirit and determination point but, for me, it boils down to the fact the Villa's squad is as weak as piss. Yes fair enough, the players could give more and should give more at the very least but when you know your team isn't good enough and there's no investment coming in from the top, what sort of encouragement does that give you? If I was getting paid thousands a week I'd like to think I'd give my all no matter what but when your all isn't necessarily enough, what else can you do? The only teams that 'go down fighting' are the newly promoted teams who aren't expected to do much. Because Villa are seen as an established, respected club, they aren't 'expected' to go down but if you look at their squad, it's got to be one of the weakest ever to have competed in the Premier League and that comes from the money men at the top.
To be fair Villa have got the 7th highest wage bill in the Prem and last summer they bought:
Jordan Ayew £9m, Jordan Amavi £8.25m, Adama Traore £7.5m, Jordan Veretout £7.5m, Idrissa Gueye £6.75m, Rudy Gestede £6.4m, Scott Sinclair £2.6m, Joleon Lescot £1m, Jose Angel Crespo £0.5m.
I'm not sure what's happened there but it's not like there wasn't any investment in the team going on.
Christ, that is quite an outlay on some right old crap but I wouldn't say that's a huge investment given the size of the club and the fact they sold Benteke for £32.5M. In today's mental market, that's probably about the going rate for those sorts of players. However if that's all they could manage having spent that sort of money then somebody deserved a rodding and that ended up being Sherwood. Ayew has been a disaster along with Traore and they got unfortunate with a bad injury to Amavi who is supposed to be a really good player. The others just aren't good enough are they?
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fred11
Youth Player
Posts: 364
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Post by fred11 on Apr 18, 2016 14:55:22 GMT
Lescott is a disgrace to be fair to Collymore. When he first broke onto the scene he looked like a real talent. It just shows how the privilege of being a premiership player often corrupts young and immature minds.
I'm amazed the real reason for him being sold by West Brom did not hit the headlines as this would show the fans exactly the type of person they are dealing with.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 18, 2016 15:21:45 GMT
To be fair Villa have got the 7th highest wage bill in the Prem and last summer they bought:
Jordan Ayew £9m, Jordan Amavi £8.25m, Adama Traore £7.5m, Jordan Veretout £7.5m, Idrissa Gueye £6.75m, Rudy Gestede £6.4m, Scott Sinclair £2.6m, Joleon Lescot £1m, Jose Angel Crespo £0.5m.
I'm not sure what's happened there but it's not like there wasn't any investment in the team going on.
Christ, that is quite an outlay on some right old crap but I wouldn't say that's a huge investment given the size of the club and the fact they sold Benteke for £32.5M. In today's mental market, that's probably about the going rate for those sorts of players. However if that's all they could manage having spent that sort of money then somebody deserved a rodding and that ended up being Sherwood. Ayew has been a disaster along with Traore and they got unfortunate with a bad injury to Amavi who is supposed to be a really good player. The others just aren't good enough are they? you're right. selling the only player they had with real quality (for them anyway) and thinking that if you replace him with a shit load of average at best players in other positions you'll be fine was a major fuck up at their end (and if you ask me nothing more than a token PR exercise by the board to look as if they were really trying to help i.e. doesn't matter who the players are, we can just say we've bought loads of people so therefore MUST be doing all we can right?). brought in shit loads of past sell by date players and unproven talent who have been injured and/or shown nothing. what really tells a tale is their wage bill which they were talking about on TS on saturday...2 years ago it was about 83mill a year, last year went down to 68mill a year and this year (even with all those additions) is only just about 82mill a year. now, to put that 82mill into perspective, apparently the average in the Prem was a 40% total wages increase this season for all clubs (so that 82 mill isn't actually anything like what it was 2 years ago) so it's actually only a 20% increase for Villa so way, way below the average...similar story for Newcastle as well who are also struggling. just shows the premium clubs put on transfer fees when a team who are fucking desperate want a player....wages will be sod all because they're just not that good but the selling club can charge what the hell they want fee wise. was also interesting to read over the weekend that in reality the board and Chief exec. have sod all real input. apparently EVERYTHING has to be signed off by Lerner over in the US and that's why so many managers have had issues with him. They want a player in but by the time the proposal has gone to the board, chief exec then over the ocean, then received a response from the US and been passed back over here it's too late and they've missed out. They were questioning whether people like Pearson or Moyes would even want a position at a club that makes all it's decisions like that and won't allow the manager any freedom himself.
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Post by chayzenbacon on Apr 18, 2016 16:25:06 GMT
Lescott is a disgrace to be fair to Collymore. When he first broke onto the scene he looked like a real talent. It just shows how the privilege of being a premiership player often corrupts young and immature minds. I'm amazed the real reason for him being sold by West Brom did not hit the headlines as this would show the fans exactly the type of person they are dealing with. Go on then, I'll ask, though I might not be around to read the reply as I'm off up to the Gardener's for pre-match cocktails very soon. What is the real reason that West Brom sold Lescott? Is it a secret or did I just miss it?
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 18, 2016 17:18:11 GMT
Lescott is a disgrace to be fair to Collymore. When he first broke onto the scene he looked like a real talent. It just shows how the privilege of being a premiership player often corrupts young and immature minds. I'm amazed the real reason for him being sold by West Brom did not hit the headlines as this would show the fans exactly the type of person they are dealing with. Go on then, I'll ask, though I might not be around to read the reply as I'm off up to the Gardener's for pre-match cocktails very soon. What is the real reason that West Brom sold Lescott? Is it a secret or did I just miss it? Because he is fuckin wank no secret in that.
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Post by staffsvilla on Apr 18, 2016 17:24:01 GMT
Go on then, I'll ask, though I might not be around to read the reply as I'm off up to the Gardener's for pre-match cocktails very soon. What is the real reason that West Brom sold Lescott? Is it a secret or did I just miss it? Because he is fuckin wank no secret in that. And TP was laughing his socks off when we bid for him
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Post by richardparker on Apr 18, 2016 17:45:14 GMT
Makes for interesting radio for sure. I do think however that Collymore has gone too far and has been unprofessional as a journo. Yes, he wears his heart on his sleeve and is a passionate football/Villa fan. However, all of this 'come and have go if you think you're hard enough' crap is childish in the extreme. Who is to say that when he played for Villa (and when he was 'crap') he would have stood out as anything different to the current crop?
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Post by mumf on Apr 18, 2016 17:51:10 GMT
It takes 11 players to lose a game of football.
It takes an entire squad and bad management to get relegated.
It takes an American to not realise this.
The end.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 18, 2016 17:58:15 GMT
Makes for interesting radio for sure. I do think however that Collymore has gone too far and has been unprofessional as a journo. Yes, he wears his heart on his sleeve and is a passionate football/Villa fan. However, all of this 'come and have go if you think you're hard enough' crap is childish in the extreme. Who is to say that when he played for Villa (and when he was 'crap') he would have stood out as anything different to the current crop? 1) he's a "journo" in it's loosest sense. He's not a journalist by trade, he's the pundit on a radio show. As he pointed out himself, he has no obligation to be impartial as he doesn't work for the bbc but a radio station that is specifically constrcuted to give personal opinions...it's talksport not bbc 24! 2) he admitted himself he wasn't very good at villa 3) does it matter how good he was when he was there? He isn't saying the players are shit, he's saying they simply don't give a shit and haven't given 100% and therefore haven't shown enough respect to the fans. If they gave 100% but just weren't very good at their best no-one would have an issue with that. 4) he's a lifelong villa fan. Presumably if you are only allowed to give an opinion on the way your players have performed if you are/were any good for that club, then you, i and virtually every other fan in the world of any club should just keep their mouths shut yeah? It's bizarre logic; "He wasn't great for a team therefore any opinion he ever has on players in the future are invalid and he shouldn't state them". The kind of logic only john terry comes up with
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Post by skip on Apr 18, 2016 18:00:56 GMT
Collymore only said what both pundits and fans think and feel and there aren't many people in his position. I would hope that someone like say, Nick Hancock (if he was working in broadcasting at the time) would tear our players a new arseholes if they showed the same level of contempt for us Stoke fans.
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Post by mumf on Apr 18, 2016 18:08:30 GMT
Collymore only said what both pundits and fans think and feel and there aren't many people in his position. I would hope that someone like say, Nick Hancock (if he was working in broadcasting at the time) would tear our players a new arseholes if they showed the same level of contempt for us Stoke fans. Indeed...whatever happened to him? From hero to zero....
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 18, 2016 18:09:21 GMT
Makes for interesting radio for sure. I do think however that Collymore has gone too far and has been unprofessional as a journo. Yes, he wears his heart on his sleeve and is a passionate football/Villa fan. However, all of this 'come and have go if you think you're hard enough' crap is childish in the extreme. Who is to say that when he played for Villa (and when he was 'crap') he would have stood out as anything different to the current crop? 1) he's a "journo" in it's loosest sense. He's not a journalist by trade, he's the pundit on a radio show. As he pointed out himself, he has no obligation to be impartial as he doesn't work for the bbc but a radio station that is specifically constrcuted to give personal opinions...it's talksport not bbc 24! 2) he admitted himself he wasn't very good at villa 3) does it matter how good he was when he was there? He isn't saying the players are shit, he's saying they simply don't give a shit and haven't given 100% and therefore haven't shown enough respect to the fans. If they gave 100% but just weren't very good at their best no-one would have an issue with that. 4) he's a lifelong villa fan. Presumably if you are only allowed to give an opinion on the way your players have performed if you are/were any good for that club, then you, i and virtually every other fan in the world of any club should just keep their mouths shut yeah? It's bizarre logic; "He wasn't great for a team therefore any opinion he ever has on players in the future are invalid and he shouldn't state them". The kind of logic only john terry comes up with Mate my post on the subject was almost the same as Richards , nobody is disputing the fact villa have been appalling and their players disgraceful , collymore has every right to criticise the players and name and shame them . To get into a personal spat and offering him out is not what I expect from a broadcaster . It's not acceptable for fans to behave like that
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Post by Beardy200 on Apr 18, 2016 18:13:18 GMT
1) he's a "journo" in it's loosest sense. He's not a journalist by trade, he's the pundit on a radio show. As he pointed out himself, he has no obligation to be impartial as he doesn't work for the bbc but a radio station that is specifically constrcuted to give personal opinions...it's talksport not bbc 24! 2) he admitted himself he wasn't very good at villa 3) does it matter how good he was when he was there? He isn't saying the players are shit, he's saying they simply don't give a shit and haven't given 100% and therefore haven't shown enough respect to the fans. If they gave 100% but just weren't very good at their best no-one would have an issue with that. 4) he's a lifelong villa fan. Presumably if you are only allowed to give an opinion on the way your players have performed if you are/were any good for that club, then you, i and virtually every other fan in the world of any club should just keep their mouths shut yeah? It's bizarre logic; "He wasn't great for a team therefore any opinion he ever has on players in the future are invalid and he shouldn't state them". The kind of logic only john terry comes up with Mate my post on the subject was almost the same as Richards , nobody is disputing the fact villa have been appalling and their players disgraceful , collymore has every right to criticise the players and name and shame them . To get into a personal spat and offering him out is not what I expect from a broadcaster . It's not acceptable for fans to behave like that He asked him to call him on the radio and explain things not meet him somewhere for a tear up, didn't he?
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 18, 2016 18:22:15 GMT
Mate my post on the subject was almost the same as Richards , nobody is disputing the fact villa have been appalling and their players disgraceful , collymore has every right to criticise the players and name and shame them . To get into a personal spat and offering him out is not what I expect from a broadcaster . It's not acceptable for fans to behave like that He asked him to call him on the radio and explain things not meet him somewhere for a tear up, didn't he? I think it went a bit further on Twitter
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Post by Beardy200 on Apr 18, 2016 18:25:05 GMT
He asked him to call him on the radio and explain things not meet him somewhere for a tear up, didn't he? I think it went a bit further on Twitter Haha, i thought it might have hence the question at the end. That Twitter has a lot to answer for :D
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 18, 2016 18:26:59 GMT
I think it went a bit further on Twitter Haha, i thought it might have hence the question at the end. That Twitter has a lot to answer for Stan called him a twat
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Post by Beardy200 on Apr 18, 2016 18:30:19 GMT
Haha, i thought it might have hence the question at the end. That Twitter has a lot to answer for :D Stan called him a twat Sounds fair enough ;)
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Post by richardparker on Apr 18, 2016 18:33:08 GMT
Makes for interesting radio for sure. I do think however that Collymore has gone too far and has been unprofessional as a journo. Yes, he wears his heart on his sleeve and is a passionate football/Villa fan. However, all of this 'come and have go if you think you're hard enough' crap is childish in the extreme. Who is to say that when he played for Villa (and when he was 'crap') he would have stood out as anything different to the current crop? 1) he's a "journo" in it's loosest sense. He's not a journalist by trade, he's the pundit on a radio show. As he pointed out himself, he has no obligation to be impartial as he doesn't work for the bbc but a radio station that is specifically constrcuted to give personal opinions...it's talksport not bbc 24! 2) he admitted himself he wasn't very good at villa 3) does it matter how good he was when he was there? He isn't saying the players are shit, he's saying they simply don't give a shit and haven't given 100% and therefore haven't shown enough respect to the fans. If they gave 100% but just weren't very good at their best no-one would have an issue with that. 4) he's a lifelong villa fan. Presumably if you are only allowed to give an opinion on the way your players have performed if you are/were any good for that club, then you, i and virtually every other fan in the world of any club should just keep their mouths shut yeah? It's bizarre logic; "He wasn't great for a team therefore any opinion he ever has on players in the future are invalid and he shouldn't state them". The kind of logic only john terry comes up with 1. Pundit's research information prior to shows and give their opinions on air. To me, that's a type of journalism through a different medium. I agree Talksport is not the BBC. 2. That's why I put the inverted commas around crap. 3. It's amusing that he should qualify his criticism of the current Villa players, by establishing (before anyone else does) that he performed poorly for Villa. This suggests that there were probably moments in games he played in where he didn't chase a lost cause, or went to bed late before a matchday, etc. and did not give 100% as a consequence. 4. Or could this just be a case of the cat calling the dog hairy arse? Also, where exactly did you find this quote from John Terry? I listen to Collymore and often find him entertaining. I respect him for his positive comments about us a few years back when we were regularly slagged off in the media. I listened to what he had to say in this particular case and think he's taken it too far. He did the same with Karl Henry a couple of years back. I'm all for giving stick to people who flaunt wealth (and vote Tory), however practically offering people out is a line he shouldn't be crossing.
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 18, 2016 18:35:02 GMT
Sounds fair enough Nice to hear lescott say he wants to stay on and help out next season . He's managed to make himself unsignable
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Post by Beardy200 on Apr 18, 2016 18:41:11 GMT
Nice to hear lescott say he wants to stay on and help out next season . He's managed to make himself unsignable :D Best thing he can do to help them is resign to save them his wages and bugger off as he's shit.
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Post by mumf on Apr 18, 2016 18:43:32 GMT
In very cold spells of weather some Premier League stars burn £20 notes just to keep warm .
It saves the time and trouble of buying logs etc ....and they can then sit down and watch Towie in peace .
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 18, 2016 18:51:59 GMT
He asked him to call him on the radio and explain things not meet him somewhere for a tear up, didn't he? I think it went a bit further on Twitter brings another meaning to the old "Meet you at Stan's statue" line i suppose
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Post by Beardy200 on Apr 18, 2016 18:56:21 GMT
1) he's a "journo" in it's loosest sense. He's not a journalist by trade, he's the pundit on a radio show. As he pointed out himself, he has no obligation to be impartial as he doesn't work for the bbc but a radio station that is specifically constrcuted to give personal opinions...it's talksport not bbc 24! 2) he admitted himself he wasn't very good at villa 3) does it matter how good he was when he was there? He isn't saying the players are shit, he's saying they simply don't give a shit and haven't given 100% and therefore haven't shown enough respect to the fans. If they gave 100% but just weren't very good at their best no-one would have an issue with that. 4) he's a lifelong villa fan. Presumably if you are only allowed to give an opinion on the way your players have performed if you are/were any good for that club, then you, i and virtually every other fan in the world of any club should just keep their mouths shut yeah? It's bizarre logic; "He wasn't great for a team therefore any opinion he ever has on players in the future are invalid and he shouldn't state them". The kind of logic only john terry comes up with 1. Pundit's research information prior to shows and give their opinions on air. To me, that's a type of journalism through a different medium. I agree Talksport is not the BBC. 2. That's why I put the inverted commas around crap. 3. It's amusing that he should qualify his criticism of the current Villa players, by establishing (before anyone else does) that he performed poorly for Villa. This suggests that there were probably moments in games he played in where he didn't chase a lost cause, or went to bed late before a matchday, etc. and did not give 100% as a consequence. 4. Or could this just be a case of the cat calling the dog hairy arse? Also, where exactly did you find this quote from John Terry?I listen to Collymore and often find him entertaining. I respect him for his positive comments about us a few years back when we were regularly slagged off in the media. I listened to what he had to say in this particular case and think he's taken it too far. He did the same with Karl Henry a couple of years back. I'm all for giving stick to people who flaunt wealth (and vote Tory), however practically offering people out is a line he shouldn't be crossing. I can't remember who it was but some ex player criticised Terry and he replied by saying something along the lines of not playing at the level he has so his opinion is invalid.
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Post by Bowyer83 on Apr 18, 2016 18:57:39 GMT
1. Pundit's research information prior to shows and give their opinions on air. To me, that's a type of journalism through a different medium. I agree Talksport is not the BBC. 2. That's why I put the inverted commas around crap. 3. It's amusing that he should qualify his criticism of the current Villa players, by establishing (before anyone else does) that he performed poorly for Villa. This suggests that there were probably moments in games he played in where he didn't chase a lost cause, or went to bed late before a matchday, etc. and did not give 100% as a consequence. 4. Or could this just be a case of the cat calling the dog hairy arse? Also, where exactly did you find this quote from John Terry?I listen to Collymore and often find him entertaining. I respect him for his positive comments about us a few years back when we were regularly slagged off in the media. I listened to what he had to say in this particular case and think he's taken it too far. He did the same with Karl Henry a couple of years back. I'm all for giving stick to people who flaunt wealth (and vote Tory), however practically offering people out is a line he shouldn't be crossing. I can't remember who it was but some ex player criticised Terry and he replied by saying something along the lines of not playing at the level he has so his opinion is invalid. Robbie Savage
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 19:09:14 GMT
In very cold spells of weather some Premier League stars burn £20 notes just to keep warm . It saves the time and trouble of buying logs etc ....and they can then sit down and watch Towie in peace . Didn't Collymore himself get into trouble that way? Someone went up to him in a pub and said "You're crap, Collymore" to which Stan said "I may be crap but I can do this..." and lit a cigar with a £50 note. Fighting followed as the story goes.
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