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Post by mumf on Mar 30, 2016 14:09:30 GMT
......is in the opinions of our former Ambassador and ex Whitehouse adviser " greater than that posed by any current terrorist group " as disclosed in a recent televised debate on the subject . Both were very candid and unequivocal that in their opinion that if North Korea had the means to launch nuclear weapons to hit the US that they would have no qualms about doing it . The former US adviser also suggested that in such circumstances the US would act with a pre-emotive strike to avoid mass genocide . Our former ambassador endorsed his American counterparts view more or less word for word . I was was quite taken aback by the reality of the situation and no one should have any illusions as to the intentions of both parties . Both urged the Chinese government to do more in terms of telling the North Koreans to back off , so as to avoid any unnecessary bloodshed . I believe their are 'party elections ' planned for May and the threat posed by their war mongering leader is likely to intensify in the lead up to these elections as a show of power and strength ... There are obvious repercussions for ourselves too , which should not be overlooked ... Here's a little info on the situation .... edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/08/26/north-korea-military-explainer-lah-orig-jong-un.cnnwww.nti.org/learn/countries/north-korea/Click on the "overview " section on the front page ...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 15:26:54 GMT
China will definitely intervene and will certainly have spies within his government that will alert them to any escalating threat. There is absolutely no way the Chinese will want an attack whether it be pre emptive or retaliatory so close to its borders, and neither will the Russians for that matter, as they both see that part of the world strategically so important for access to the North pacific, both economically and militarily...
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Post by starkiller on Mar 30, 2016 21:32:44 GMT
The US is, and always has been, the biggest threat to world peace.
The facts don't lie.
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Post by mumf on Mar 30, 2016 21:37:30 GMT
The US is, and always has been, the biggest threat to world peace. The facts don't lie. More dangerous than North Korea , given the info and comments from senior government figures ? Can you be more specific in relation to North Korea . If North Korea made an inter continental rocket with a warhead capable of wiping out major cities in the US , then would you back a US pre-emptive strike ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 21:49:52 GMT
The US is, and always has been, the biggest threat to world peace. The facts don't lie. More dangerous than North Korea , given the info and comments from senior government figures ? Can you be more specific in relation to North Korea . If North Korea made an inter continental rocket with a warhead capable of wiping out major cities in the US , then would you back a US pre-emptive strike ? If North Korea carried out an attack of that nature on the US , they would be the ones making the " pre - emptive strike " .....any response from the Ameticans would be retaliatory , pre emptive is nothing more than a first strike ( normally a considered tactic when an opponent is thought to be preparing a first strike of their own ).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 21:53:22 GMT
The US is, and always has been, the biggest threat to world peace. The facts don't lie. That would depend on the facts you are considering ....If you mean recent opinion polls that have been taken on the subject , I don't think you can take them as being an accurate assessment of the facts .
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Post by mumf on Mar 30, 2016 21:54:08 GMT
More dangerous than North Korea , given the info and comments from senior government figures ? Can you be more specific in relation to North Korea . If North Korea made an inter continental rocket with a warhead capable of wiping out major cities in the US , then would you back a US pre-emptive strike ? If North Korea carried out an attack of that nature on the US , they would be the ones making the " pre - emptive strike " .....any response from the Ameticans would be retaliatory , pre emptive is nothing more than a first strike ( normally a considered tactic when an opponent is thought to be preparing a first strike of their own ). I think you misunderstood me there Bisp ....I said if they made a rocket capable of wiping out .....Not actually carried it out ... I should have said constructed .....if you follow my drift ... D'yer follow ...?
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Post by starkiller on Mar 30, 2016 21:54:56 GMT
The US is, and always has been, the biggest threat to world peace. The facts don't lie. More dangerous than North Korea , given the info and comments from senior government figures ? Can you be more specific in relation to North Korea . If North Korea made an inter continental rocket with a warhead capable of wiping out major cities in the US , then would you back a US pre-emptive strike ? I'll be more specific. US Government prepares public with statements about immediate threat and to soften the public for action. US Government takes what it calls action. A shitstorm that lasts years ensues, dragging all kinds of factions into the mix and making the region and world a more dangerous place. I've missed out a few stages of propaganda and black ops tactics, but you get the picture. The answer is no.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Mar 30, 2016 21:55:38 GMT
The US is, and always has been, the biggest threat to world peace. The facts don't lie. More dangerous than North Korea , given the info and comments from senior government figures ? Can you be more specific in relation to North Korea . If North Korea made an inter continental rocket with a warhead capable of wiping out major cities in the US , then would you back a US pre-emptive strike ? The current state of affairs in North Korea, suits the US, just fine. An unstable PRK affects the stability of the Chinese economy, and when China does things that upset the US, such as currency devaluation, the US pokes the PRK with a stick.
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Post by starkiller on Mar 30, 2016 21:56:28 GMT
The US is, and always has been, the biggest threat to world peace. The facts don't lie. That would depend on the facts you are considering ....If you mean recent opinion polls that have been taken on the subject , I don't think you can take them as being an accurate assessment of the facts . Maybe look at the list of Wars involving the US on Wikipedia.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 21:56:50 GMT
If North Korea carried out an attack of that nature on the US , they would be the ones making the " pre - emptive strike " .....any response from the Ameticans would be retaliatory , pre emptive is nothing more than a first strike ( normally a considered tactic when an opponent is thought to be preparing a first strike of their own ). I think you misunderstood me there Bisp ....I said if they made a rocket capable of wiping out .....Not actually carried it out ... I should have said constructed .....if you follow my drift ... D'yer follow ...? You did ....I did misread it ...Apologies for that ....I do I follow your drift on that .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 22:08:15 GMT
That would depend on the facts you are considering ....If you mean recent opinion polls that have been taken on the subject , I don't think you can take them as being an accurate assessment of the facts . Maybe look at the list of Wars involving the US on Wikipedia. Lists of that type on Wikipedia , are hardly conclusive evidence , they don't show the context of those conflicts ...If you look,at the list involving Russia / Soviet Union / Russia ( again ) that's also throughout history pretty extensive .
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Post by mumf on Mar 30, 2016 22:09:26 GMT
More dangerous than North Korea , given the info and comments from senior government figures ? Can you be more specific in relation to North Korea . If North Korea made an inter continental rocket with a warhead capable of wiping out major cities in the US , then would you back a US pre-emptive strike ? The current state of affairs in North Korea, suits the US, just fine. An unstable PRK affects the stability of the Chinese economy, and when China does things that upset the US, such as currency devaluation, the US pokes the PRK with a stick. You make a very valid point , but in light of the comments made by the former British Adviser and that of his US counter part I cannot stress enough how shocking their unified comments were in the context of this debate .mThey were both adamant that the US were prepared to act faced with any real potential threat ....a pre-emptive strike was in their considered opinion almost certain .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 22:45:12 GMT
The current state of affairs in North Korea, suits the US, just fine. An unstable PRK affects the stability of the Chinese economy, and when China does things that upset the US, such as currency devaluation, the US pokes the PRK with a stick. You make a very valid point , but in light of the comments made by the former British Adviser and that of his US counter part I cannot stress enough how shocking their unified comments were in the context of this debate .mThey were both adamant that the US were prepared to act faced with any real potential threat ....a pre-emptive strike was in their considered opinion almost certain . I read those comments myself and I'm sure they echo a very genuine concern .....but I don't believe a situation would arise when the US feels it needs to launch an initial strike against North Korea ....I doubt the Koreans would ever have the nerve to embark on something like an attack on America ( knowing the obvious consequences ....even though the guy in charge is a fruit loop ) .
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Post by mumf on Mar 30, 2016 22:52:41 GMT
The key to this Bisp ...is the capacity or potential capacity .
That's why I was so surprised by their answers to direct questions specifically on this point .
In other words , the US would not fuck about debating the point ...but simply do it .....Strike before any potential risk was planned .
I thought there may have been a certain amount of diversionary rhetoric ...political speak to avoid the question , but to my surprise there wasn't .
This was the crux of the debate and totally took me by surprise in its clarity of its intention and unity .
i was flabbergasted .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 23:02:02 GMT
The key to this Bisp ...is the capacity or potential capacity . That's why I was so surprised by their answers to direct questions specifically on this point . In other words , the US would not fuck about debating the point ...but simply do it .....Strike before any potential risk was planned . I thought there may have been a certain amount of diversionary rhetoric ...political speak to avoid the question , but to my surprise there wasn't . This was the crux of the debate and totally took me my surprise in its clarity of its intention and unity . Very true ....laying the cards on the table ,but the very essence of US and British nuclear strategy has always been one of strategic deterrence hasn't it ? Would that change over a rogue state such a North Korea and envisiging the potential world wide outcome of such an action would they be prepared to risk it ?
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Post by mumf on Mar 30, 2016 23:03:23 GMT
Just to put more things into context , I was more expecting an attack on South Korea especially with the US having bases in that area ....
I suppose it could still happen , and thus provoke a retaliatory response from the south with United States support .
Faced with such a cataclysmic action , China may then prefer to take a back seat in order to take stock of the situation rather than leaping in to the fray and compounding the problem ....
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Post by mumf on Mar 30, 2016 23:15:13 GMT
The key to this Bisp ...is the capacity or potential capacity . That's why I was so surprised by their answers to direct questions specifically on this point . In other words , the US would not fuck about debating the point ...but simply do it .....Strike before any potential risk was planned . I thought there may have been a certain amount of diversionary rhetoric ...political speak to avoid the question , but to my surprise there wasn't . This was the crux of the debate and totally took me my surprise in its clarity of its intention and unity . Very true ....laying the cards on the table ,but the very essence of US and British nuclear strategy has always been one of strategic deterrence hasn't it ? Would that change over a rogue state such a North Korea and envisiging the potential world wide outcome of such an action would they be prepared to risk it ? I don't have the answer to that one , but once again both parties equally made the point very clear that they were of the opinion that the image of North Korea's leader being crazy was wide of the mark and that every decision that was made was carefully considered as to its impact and repercussions . It's thought process was more to do with nationalism and internal public perceptions and how to stay in control of its internal situation (staying in power ) . So ...as you rightly point out , it's how far North Korea are prepared to push the boundaries of Agressive actions . It maybe simply a question of bluff and bluster to maintain a certain amount of credibility for its own people to admire and obey . "Admire " is not perhaps the right word I'm after .....
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 30, 2016 23:44:48 GMT
You make a very valid point , but in light of the comments made by the former British Adviser and that of his US counter part I cannot stress enough how shocking their unified comments were in the context of this debate .mThey were both adamant that the US were prepared to act faced with any real potential threat ....a pre-emptive strike was in their considered opinion almost certain . I read those comments myself and I'm sure they echo a very genuine concern .....but I don't believe a situation would arise when the US feels it needs to launch an initial strike against North Korea ....I doubt the Koreans would ever have the nerve to embark on something like an attack on America ( knowing the obvious consequences ....even though the guy in charge is a fruit loop ) . That's Blackpool. Gone for a start
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Post by mumf on Mar 31, 2016 0:21:56 GMT
Harry ....Its everyone's worst nightmare . You get up to go for a piss or to empty your bag , and suddenly you see a blinding flash accompanied by a very warm glow on your arse . You immediately think that it might be the 'Fiery Jack ' you rubbed on the night before , but then remember that you fell asleep in your chair .....
By the time you have realised that it wasn't a malfunction in your central heating system then your Y fronts may have already started to melt into your flesh ....
You immediately run for the bog with your drawers around your ankles and trip over head first down the shitter.....
What an indignity ....What an absolute Bastuurd ...by the time you've realised that Kim jon Sun ( or whatever his fucking name is ) is the man responsible , your bacon is cooked ...
Done to a fucking crisp . Thank fuck it isn't Sellarfield you croak ...Where's Bisp when you want him .....?
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 31, 2016 0:34:44 GMT
Harry ....Its everyone's worst nightmare . You get up to go for a piss or to empty your bag , and suddenly you see a blinding flash accompanied by a very warm glow on your arse . You immediately think that it might be the 'Fiery Jack ' you rubbed on the night before , but then remember that you fell asleep in your chair ..... By the time you have realised that it wasn't a malfunction in your central heating system then your Y fronts may have already started to melt into your flesh .... You immediately run for the bog with your drawers around your ankles and trip over head first down the shitter..... What an indignity ....What an absolute Bastuurd ...by the time you've realised that Kim jon Sun ( or whatever his fucking name is ) is the man responsible , your bacon is cooked ... Done to a fucking crisp . Thank fuck it isn't Sellarfield you croak ...Where's Bisp when you want him .....? Well I didn't hear buncefield oil depot explode and It was only. 5 miles away from me at the time , I'm sure after 70years of living with nukes though the Cold War the west won't allow this vain little despot to start something . I'm absolutely sure conversations have already taken place with the superpowers to put him in the picture .
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Post by britsabroad on Mar 31, 2016 0:40:59 GMT
China will definitely intervene and will certainly have spies within his government that will alert them to any escalating threat. There is absolutely no way the Chinese will want an attack whether it be pre emptive or retaliatory so close to its borders, and neither will the Russians for that matter, as they both see that part of the world strategically so important for access to the North pacific, both economically and militarily... Exactly this. China are their only friends, and even they have been getting tired of them recently. No chance they will allow them to do anything beyond talk a tough game. The last thing the Chinese want is US tanks or missiles landing on their doorstep.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 9:02:44 GMT
I read those comments myself and I'm sure they echo a very genuine concern .....but I don't believe a situation would arise when the US feels it needs to launch an initial strike against North Korea ....I doubt the Koreans would ever have the nerve to embark on something like an attack on America ( knowing the obvious consequences ....even though the guy in charge is a fruit loop ) . That's Blackpool. Gone for a start Hertfordshire is in the second wave .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 9:03:57 GMT
Harry ....Its everyone's worst nightmare . You get up to go for a piss or to empty your bag , and suddenly you see a blinding flash accompanied by a very warm glow on your arse . You immediately think that it might be the 'Fiery Jack ' you rubbed on the night before , but then remember that you fell asleep in your chair ..... By the time you have realised that it wasn't a malfunction in your central heating system then your Y fronts may have already started to melt into your flesh .... You immediately run for the bog with your drawers around your ankles and trip over head first down the shitter..... What an indignity ....What an absolute Bastuurd ...by the time you've realised that Kim jon Sun ( or whatever his fucking name is ) is the man responsible , your bacon is cooked ... Done to a fucking crisp . Thank fuck it isn't Sellarfield you croak ...Where's Bisp when you want him .....? Well I didn't hear buncefield oil depot explode and It was only. 5 miles away from me at the time , I'm sure after 70years of living with nukes though the Cold War the west won't allow this vain little despot to start something . I'm absolutely sure conversations have already taken place with the superpowers to put him in the picture . He's probably camera shy .
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 31, 2016 9:07:58 GMT
Well I didn't hear buncefield oil depot explode and It was only. 5 miles away from me at the time , I'm sure after 70years of living with nukes though the Cold War the west won't allow this vain little despot to start something . I'm absolutely sure conversations have already taken place with the superpowers to put him in the picture . He's probably camera shy . I'm sure there's a couple of subs in the vicinity keeping an eye on things bish .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 9:17:05 GMT
He's probably camera shy . I'm sure there's a couple of subs in the vicinity keeping an eye on things bish . More than likely there are ....if they be thought that there was a genuine threat posted by Korea ( after they had been leaned on by both China and Russia ) steps to neutralise it by conventional means would be taken .....no way would they go down the Nuclear path ( we hope ! ) ....your roses will be fine Harry
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Post by mumf on Mar 31, 2016 9:21:44 GMT
Never mind the roses ....what abite his bag and melted under pants .
He'd never be able to tip toe through the Tulips again ....!
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Post by Skankmonkey on Mar 31, 2016 13:00:15 GMT
While I agree the bangs and flashes are largely for domestic and regional consumption, I'd also like to suggest an underlying economic imperative behind North Korea's bombast and sabre rattling.
On several occasions in the recent past when North Korea has appeared to be a threat to the international community, it has suited everyone, China, Russia and the US, to buy them off with generous food and economic assistance packages. In terms of diplomacy and finance it was just the simplest and cheapest option for all parties. I'd say this remains to be the case.
I'd suggest then, that they need to maintain their place in the current pecking order of international threat in the expectation of receiving further aid. After all, if you run the "workers paradise" you can hardly make the usual misery and dire poverty of your people arguments to appeal for assistance can you?
I agree with the posters above. It just suits everyone involved for it to remain this way right now. If the regime's survival depended on it, they would have no qualms about launching a missile but they don't possess intercontinental capability and we can probably rely on Russia and China to see they don't acquire it anytime soon.
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Mar 31, 2016 21:42:28 GMT
I read those comments myself and I'm sure they echo a very genuine concern .....but I don't believe a situation would arise when the US feels it needs to launch an initial strike against North Korea ....I doubt the Koreans would ever have the nerve to embark on something like an attack on America ( knowing the obvious consequences ....even though the guy in charge is a fruit loop ) . That's Blackpool. Gone for a start As long as The Pork Shop, at Poulton escapes...
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 31, 2016 21:52:11 GMT
That's Blackpool. Gone for a start As long as The Pork Shop, at Poulton escapes... That will be fine Richie , all the poles and Romanians will keep it going ,
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