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Post by Trouserdog on Mar 13, 2016 8:45:00 GMT
This has been the problem all season.
We're good at passing the ball around, but we don't tend to get anywhere with it. Other sides seem to zip the ball from back-to-front much quicker- even the sides who, generally, play on the ground.
Why is this? Are there certain players who are guilty of hanging on to the ball too long? Do we lack pace in certain areas?
The only thing I can think of is that our wide men tend to cut in a bit too much, bringing the ball back on to their other foot rather than crossing the ball, which gives the opposition a chance to get back. Would we be better seeing Shaq and Arnie switching for periods during the game just to mix it up a bit and get them attacking the byline now and again?
What does everyone think?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 13, 2016 8:48:15 GMT
Some players hold onto it for too long.
Our movement in the final third is shocking. Too often we look to cross it in to one heavily marked bloke in the middle. Too often the wide men and full backs are just standing there statuesque on the wing rather than making a run and taking a defender with them to open up space.
It's been like this for all the Hughes era but he's no closer to sorting it now than since that dreadful game against Norwich in our first season.
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Post by mumf on Mar 13, 2016 8:53:59 GMT
I think we need to drastically change our play to see what's the shortest number of passes required to get the ball into dangerous areas rather than pointless sideways taps .
The time and effort required for our current style of football detracts from the primary goal which is to put the ball into the back of the net .
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Post by scfc5 on Mar 13, 2016 8:54:03 GMT
Dare I say, and I know it's heresy to some, but I find Afellay slows the play down when he's our No10. Not as quick of thought as Bojan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 8:59:03 GMT
It's a combination of reasons. Too many of our players want too many touches. Shaqiri and Arnie are too similar in that they always come inside contesting the play and as already stated the movement in the final third is shocking.
For me we need an Odemwingie type player up front with good pace and movement. We also need a more direct winger.
We simply have to move the ball quicker.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 13, 2016 8:59:31 GMT
Wingers cutting inside every time is what is causing the issues. Neither of them want to take on their man. They cut inside and then look to thread the ball through 10 opposition players whilst our striker stands still - no movement at all
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 13, 2016 9:02:08 GMT
There's a difference home and away isn't there? Away, we can break at pace, at home for whatever reason we are ponderous and well, I'm afraid to say, a bit wank.
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Post by werrington on Mar 13, 2016 9:04:06 GMT
We even went plan B for the first time in months but plan B never won a header when he came on
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Post by wuzza on Mar 13, 2016 9:04:08 GMT
Not enough movement off the ball - no options for a telling pass.
(Also a slight culture that a nice pass or bit of skill is 'job done' rather than a means to an end - if that makes sense)
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Post by kurt on Mar 13, 2016 9:04:57 GMT
We interrupt too many attacks on the side, playing the ball back or changing sides
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 13, 2016 9:05:34 GMT
We even went plan B for the first time in months but plan B never won a header when he came on He won a cracking one, sadly Bojan wasn't interested. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 9:09:31 GMT
We only ever have one man in the box so it has to be precise to give him a chance, therefore it's slow by default.
Our wingers are a massive part of the overall problem because they cut in and play it inside and don't go round the outside and commit people. We also have no alternative to them.
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Post by sportsman on Mar 13, 2016 9:11:12 GMT
I don't see many other sides playing fast paced mad as a fish football. Arsenal and man utd have been slow and predictable for a while, citeh have been shit. The whole league has been generally poor this season. I've switched off many a game on television.
To make it a stoke problem is poor and wrong. Lots of clubs have work to do.
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 13, 2016 9:22:16 GMT
I think we need to drastically change our play to see what's the shortest number of passes required to get the ball into dangerous areas rather than pointless sideways taps . The time and effort required for our current style of football detracts from the primary goal which is to put the ball into the back of the net . The shortest number of passes???? One - HOOF !  |
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Post by mumf on Mar 13, 2016 9:23:44 GMT
I think we need to drastically change our play to see what's the shortest number of passes required to get the ball into dangerous areas rather than pointless sideways taps . The time and effort required for our current style of football detracts from the primary goal which is to put the ball into the back of the net . The shortest number of passes???? One - HOOF ! I was expecting that to be honest ..... |
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 13, 2016 9:24:52 GMT
I don't see many other sides playing fast paced mad as a fish football. Arsenal and man utd have been slow and predictable for a while, citeh have been shit. The whole league has been generally poor this season. I've switched off many a game on television. To make it a stoke problem is poor and wrong. Lots of clubs have work to do. Bang on the money sportsman....it may be the most exciting and unpredictable league right now but technically its so so poor. |
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Post by muglump on Mar 13, 2016 9:27:11 GMT
Lack of movement in front of the midfield. These continental players are taught to keep possession until there is something worth aiming at. All too often there isn't. We are, and it is a very big task, a world class target man away from a top 5 side.
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Post by milky on Mar 13, 2016 9:34:50 GMT
We were similar last season until the last few home games which seemed to coincide with an in form Charlie in the side.
I dunno...We just seem to play at a quicker tempo at home when he plays.
Fitting him in is another matter.
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Post by sportsman on Mar 13, 2016 10:12:44 GMT
The standard of football in the premier league now is poor. It's poor because the stakes are so high. Every game all season is a cup final until you get 40 pts. It's exciting as a netruel to watch everyone go through it, but the days of going along to watch a good game of footy seem to be fading more and more.
Hughes says the time a premier league manager has now is averaged at 12 months. Football is going the wrong way fast. The money has created an ugly monster and I'm not liking it one bit.
Me personally, I can go watch stoke and not get too down as to start shouting and booing, but I hate watching it all around me. People shouting at players because a goal kick goes somewhere it wasn't meant to, people shouting at Hughes to sort it out after 5 minutes. It's all bollocks.
Every other teams the same when you watch on television, that's why I switch most of it off now. Everton booing and wanting kenwright, Bobby, Barkley and stones out one minute, then wanting them made Sir the next.
Some might say that's football. I just think its turning ugly where as a player can't even make a square pass to keep possession without some valve in the crowd moaning and shouting out.
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Post by werrington on Mar 13, 2016 10:14:44 GMT
We were similar last season until the last few home games which seemed to coincide with an in form Charlie in the side. I dunno...We just seem to play at a quicker tempo at home when he plays. Fitting him in is another matter. I'm pleased you've said this milky I sat there yesterday thinking this game is crying out for him |
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Post by slother on Mar 13, 2016 10:18:32 GMT
There's a difference home and away isn't there? Away, we can break at pace, at home for whatever reason we are ponderous and well, I'm afraid to say, a bit wank. Because when we're away the home side has to come out at us but at the Brit teams are prepared to sit and take a point. Things are looking really good for us I don't understand the negativity. We have a fantastic group of young players. It's all about ramping up that consistency now, then the sky's the limit. Truly. |
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 13, 2016 10:39:47 GMT
It's tough to break down well organised away sides these days. Teams like Watford and Southampton know how to set up to frustrate and they've done an absolute number on us. Some of the big teams have enough ego to try and attack us and we're fine in those games, but the majority are really tough nuts.
And when we don't get the first goal, we've lost control of the situation and we never really look getting it back
Look at Liverpool's home record. It's dire and there are only 5 teams who've managed more wins than us.
But I think it's a good point someone made about early Wingie and the huge difference he made to us at the end of 2013-14. Just gave us something different from the right with his directness.
At the moment we've got Arnie and Shaq doing the same things every time, desperate to cut in. Arnie does that thing where he slows it right down, gets the ball under control and tries to roll the defender inside through sheer strength 15-20 times a game.
And Shaq too only goes down the outside a couple of times (even though when he did it at Bournemouth he produced a beautiful cross for Joselu).
At the moment, the only people delivering into the box are the full-backs and Erik's crossing is shocking more often than not.
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Post by milky on Mar 13, 2016 10:45:08 GMT
We were similar last season until the last few home games which seemed to coincide with an in form Charlie in the side. I dunno...We just seem to play at a quicker tempo at home when he plays. Fitting him in is another matter. I'm pleased you've said this milky I sat there yesterday thinking this game is crying out for him It's a conundrum mate as at times he can be a total liability. .but when he is on his game he seems to dictate the pace of the team,as in we seem to play with a bit more zip.At home against teams who deny us space I think he is always worth a try. |
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 13, 2016 10:53:48 GMT
There seems to be a general lack of tempo to the side and far too many square passes at the back, allowing the away side to fall back.
The away side then wait for us to make a mistake and then punish us on the break. The goals yesterday didn't come from this route but Southampton had other chances that did
Seems to me that once we pick the ball up then we need to move the ball forward quickly (not hoof) and find players making space by running off the ball - we are supposed to be fitter in the second half of the season but it didn't look like it yesterday
And having arrived near the penalty area - then shoot FFS - we have only Arnie scoring goals in the whole team, the contribution of our defenders is shocking since Huth left (what a big mistake)
Having said all that we are not alone - many teams are winning games away from home these days as they find more space on the counter attack
Hughes said that we were sluggish in the first half - we do not seem to be working hard enough?
As for Crouch coming on, I can see the logic but I am afraid that he is very much yesterday's man - waste of space yesterday
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Post by midtempo on Mar 13, 2016 11:58:01 GMT
The answer to the question Why is our build up play so slow ? Tin hat on, it is simple.
Mark Hughes has told them to play that way or his instructions are not clear enough or the players are not following them.
I would prefer quicker, sharper passing (not always to feet) less backwards and sideways and with more movement from the front men (man), wingers taking fullbacks on i.e less possion without progression football.
We do miss Charlie as at least he looks to play the ball forward, Imbula again always looks to play forward. it was a shame yesterday that he was caught in possion at least three times as he was looking to play the ball but that was because there was no movement and he had to hold on to it for too long.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Mar 13, 2016 12:18:44 GMT
It's football with no purpose and awful to watch if you want excitement , thankfully teams like Leicester and Spurs are showing this style to be outdated and ineffective now and once Klopp gets the players he wants in they will show that high tempo pressing football is the way forward . Hughes needs to adapt how we play at home , the style is ok away but not working at home unless its against teams who bring the game to us , the more possession we have the worse we usually are .
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Post by milky on Mar 13, 2016 12:40:19 GMT
Hughes has made no secret of the fact the possession thing is to try and draw teams out and then exploit the space they leave..teams aren't buying it though and invariably we are being sucker punched when it's us who have players too far forward leaving gaps.Its only worked against the really shit teams.
The width. .or lack of it..is of course a problem.Most of our crosses go in about 45 yards from goal and easy to defend.Its no coincidence our goal yesterday came from a cross closer to the bye line..and the best chance to equalize came when Cameron got in on the right.Our wide men ,as every man and his dog knows,want to keep checking and coming infield. .or are forced to do so.
Basically if we concede first at home were fucked. Game over.
Something the management need to have a good think about in pre season.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 13, 2016 13:10:28 GMT
We miss Muniesa at the back in games like yesterday, he's the best by far at the back for bringing the ball out and passing the ball fast and taking less touches of it.
The centre backs will take 3, 4 or more touches when 2 are needed and it all adds up from there.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Mar 13, 2016 13:14:25 GMT
It's football with no purpose and awful to watch if you want excitement , thankfully teams like Leicester and Spurs are showing this style to be outdated and ineffective now and once Klopp gets the players he wants in they will show that high tempo pressing football is the way forward . Hughes needs to adapt how we play at home , the style is ok away but not working at home unless its against teams who bring the game to us , the more possession we have the worse we usually are . Liverpool may well be better with better players and so would we  As it stands Liverpool's home record is worse than ours - even we beat them for the first time ever at Anfield (cup/top level) |
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Post by sportsman on Mar 13, 2016 13:20:56 GMT
It's football with no purpose and awful to watch if you want excitement , thankfully teams like Leicester and Spurs are showing this style to be outdated and ineffective now and once Klopp gets the players he wants in they will show that high tempo pressing football is the way forward . Hughes needs to adapt how we play at home , the style is ok away but not working at home unless its against teams who bring the game to us , the more possession we have the worse we usually are . Liverpool may well be better with better players and so would we As it stands Liverpool's home record is worse than ours - even we beat them for the first time ever at Anfield (cup/top level) Sshhhhh. You'll upset some by stating facts that will piss them off. |
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