Jury out on Stoke survival hopes-: BBC

[knowingeye]

This makes me angry as they just don't let the celebrations go ahead without having a negative Southern biased-media spin on Stoke's achievement.

BBC News 7th May 2008
Jury out on Stoke survival hopes

By David Ornstein

Stoke City supporters celebrate promotion to the Premier League
Stoke finished second behind West Brom to gain automatic promotion


The estimated 30,000 supporters lining the streets of Stoke on Tuesday night - not to mention the 20,000 packed inside the Britannia Stadium - rejoiced with good reason.

On Sunday, after 23 years of hard graft, their club won promotion to English football's top flight, which gives them access to the riches and global exposure of the Premier League.

But once the euphoria dies down, the sheer magnitude of their task will start to sink in.

Some are already tipping Stoke to usurp Derby as the worst team in Premier League history.

En route to clinching the Championship's second automatic promotion place, the Potters lost only nine of their 46 matches - fewer than any other team in the division - but if prizes were awarded for aesthetic appeal, Tony Pulis' side might not have been so successful.

Liam Lawrence
People cane us for the way we play but it doesn't bother us what people say

Stoke midfielder Liam Lawrence


While Pulis has long been an advocate of employing a passing game, his well-drilled and physically imposing team has benefitted from its aerial prowess.

Conceding a throw-in deep inside your own half of the field can prove as costly as a corner or free-kick when Rory Delap is around.

Afford Liam Lawrence time and space in wide positions and the midfielder is all too capable of laying on a goalscoring opportunity.

And when the likes of Mamady Sidibe, Ricardo Fuller, Leon Cort and Ryan Shawcross are in the vicinity, those chances tend to be dispatched.

But critics have drawn comparisons with the long-ball game played by Wimbledon in the 1980s and suggest a crass link between watching Stoke and developing neck ache.

"If you play the long ball in the Premier League you haven't got a hope," Keith Burkinshaw, Aidy Boothroyd's assistant when Watford were promoted to the Premier League in 2006, told BBC Sport.

"You've got to be able to shorten your game. It's difficult enough to stay up but I believe playing that way didn't give Watford much of a chance.

"I can't think of any teams who have played the ball from back to front, missing out the midfield, and have been really successful doing so."

Stoke's uncompromising approach has earned the wrath of several Championship managers and is unlikely to sit well with Premier League purists come August.
Ricardo Fuller
Fuller will need to continue his goalscoring form in the top flight

"People cane us for the way we play but it doesn't bother us what people say," said Lawrence.

"The way we play works for us. We're a big side and if we have to just keep on doing what we're doing then so be it."

Having been promoted to the top flight in 1986 and then remaining there for 14 consecutive seasons, Wimbledon's template is seemingly not one Stoke should shy away from replicating.

"Wimbledon stayed up for a number of years through playing a certain style and it just all depends on the players," Peter Reid, who twice led Sunderland to the Premier League, told BBC Sport.

"I remember Dennis Wise, Robbie Earle, Vinnie Jones and John Fashanu - if the players are good enough you've got a chance.

"Stoke have scored a lot of goals off dead-ball situations but there is nothing wrong with that.

"Aston Villa have done that in the Premier League and many of the big competitions now are won in that way - it's a strength."

The worry is that Stoke's passing and ball retention has been poor this season. "If you can't keep hold of the ball in the big league, you will be punished," added Reid.

Potters chairman Peter Coates will meet Pulis this week to begin the planning process for Premier League football and reports claim the multi-millionaire betting tycoon will hand out a transfer kitty of around £15m.

And with a minimum of £35m to be earned from TV revenue next season, Coates has vowed to support the manager in every way he can.

If you can't keep hold of the ball in the big league, you will be punished

Former Sunderland manager Peter Reid

It has been suggested Stoke may need up to six "top, top quality" signings with Premier League experience to stay up next season.

Competition in the transfer market will be intense and Pulis has never managed in the Premier League, which may work against him as he tries to attract players.

In his defence, Pulis, 50, who rejoined Stoke from Plymouth in 2006, has made a net profit on player expenditure in each of the last two seasons and reaped the rewards of the loan system.

Players such as Lawrence, Fuller, Cort and Shawcross - all signed in the last two years - are sure to figure prominently in Pulis' plans.

The loyalty shown by Pulis towards his players has helped to create a genuine sense of togetherness but he may have to get ruthless if Stoke are to survive in the Premier League.

Middlesbrough defender Chris Riggott impressed during his loan spell but he has returned to the Riverside and defensive options are required to challenge or cover Cort and Shawcross in central defence and Andy Griffin and Carl Dickinson in the full-back slots.

With striker Richard Cresswell manning the left of midfield for much of the season, Pulis is likely to seek a genuine left-winger, as well as a creative orchestrator in central midfield.

606: DEBATE
I still think we can bring in a few quality players and give surviving in the Premier League a good go, certainly better than Derby's effort

edgepotter

Fuller's 15-goal contribution has been vital but supporters feel it is crucial to sign a striker who will guarantee you goals in the Premier League.

That said, George Burley, who took Ipswich up in 2000 and led them to a fifth-place finish in 2001, believes wholesale changes are not necessarily a pre-requisite for survival.

"I was fortunate to have a good squad of players and didn't make too many changes," the Scotland manager told BBC Sport.

"We made the play-offs in each of the three previous years and I had a nucleus of players and a settled squad.

"I kept that continuity going and it worked for us but every club is different, every manager sees it in their own light and you've got to make decisions from there."

And Pulis knows how important it will be to get those decisions right.

As most promoted teams swiftly discover, the glamorous trips to Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, the Emirates Stadium and Anfield tend to lose their appeal in the aftermath of thumping defeats.

There are some useful examples to follow - Bolton, Wigan, Middlesbrough and Sunderland to name but four - and, whether or not Pulis puts substance above style, the Potteries will witness more delirious celebrations if Stoke retain their place in Europe's most glittering division.

[bayernoatcake]

We do need to improve our ball retention significantly.

[ben88]

"if you play a long ball game in the premiership you havent got a hope"


like bolton didnt up untill this season, when they used to finish in the top half and regularly beat arsenal

[Homzy]

Never fear KE, here's a bit of Northern-biased media reaction for you!

Stoke clinched promotion from the Championship on Sunday and TEAMtalk's Mark Holmes is already contemplating life in the Premier League.



The hangover has just about subsided and I woke up this morning to find it wasn't all a dream and my beloved Stoke City are finally in the Premier League.

I was beginning to think it would never happen but Tony Pulis has somehow transformed a mid-table Championship side into one that claimed an automatic promotion spot - and by a comfortable-looking four points in the end.

North Staffordshire is going to be partying for the whole summer and I intend to join in the celebrations - this is one hell of an achievement for our club after all.

However the joy and excitement will start turning into fear and trepidation when the Premier League fixtures are released next month and, as much as I want to enjoy the moment, I'm already starting to think about our chances of survival.

The bookies will make us huge favourites to come straight back down and the taunts of 'you'll do a Derby' have already begun.

But these people fail to take into account the many crucial differences between the two clubs.

The Rams will openly admit themselves that they went up too soon and weren't prepared for top-flight football, on or off the pitch. They had only narrowly survived relegation to League One the previous season and realistically could have done with at least one more year in the Championship to prepare for life above.

It is also worth noting that they were saddled with huge debts, had serious differences and disagreements between the board and management team, and were generally in a bit of a mess.

Stoke, though, are more than prepared for Premier League life. For a start they have arguably the strongest chairman/manager bond in the whole of England. Peter Coates is the wealthy owner who provides the backing and, such is his trust in Pulis, he has never yet turned down a transfer request from the manager since his return to the club two summers ago.

The duo have made no secret of the fact that promotion was the aim for the past two seasons so, unlike Derby, the club has had a plan in place for some time that they hope will see us compete next season.

There is no debt to clear, the stadium has been bought in full and the training ground is undergoing big improvements. A hugely increased wage budget has allowed Pulis to bring in big earners such as Shola Ameobi and Carlo Nash and the club believe they are in a good enough financial position to be able to compete with the big boys again.

Regardless of what anybody thinks of Stoke's style of play, their current players, or the manager, that ability to compete financially is the key ingredient to any future success.

The current team would realistically not stand a hope in hell of surviving and there's no point any Stokie trying to convince themselves otherwise. But so would any team promoted from the Championship; all that matters is the players the club can attract this summer.

Claiming an automatic spot gives the club an immediate advantage - they have three more weeks to plan than the play-off winners such as Derby last year - and the firm financial footing should ensure wages and transfer fees are not a problem when it comes to finding established top-flight players.

Also, Pulis is sometimes criticised for an over-reliance on the loan market but it has given the Potters a headstart in their summer spending. The trio of Ameobi, Stephen Pearson and Chris Riggott would be decent permanent signings for a newly-promoted side and all three are open to full-time moves to the Potteries.

Of course there are many members of the the squad that simply will not be good enough and some of the current first-teamers will be relegated to the role of squad player. But the Potters boast 14 players with Premier League experience so there is certainly a good base to build on.

That job of building is down to Pulis and his history at the club suggests he will not panic buy a series of bad players. Fans have in the past criticised him for his slowness in strengthening, but it is that patience and determination to find the right players that will be key.

Realistically Pulis needs half a new team and his absolute minimum spend should be £20million. City desperate need to shore up their defence, while a proven goalscorer is a must. Ameobi's record for Newcastle is actually very good - better than one in three starts - but squads are hugely important in the top flight and City need a pool of four strikers.

They will take a chance on Ricardo Fuller making the step up but a significant amount needs to be spent on someone else. Marlon Harewood - who nearly joined the club on loan in January - and Bobby Zamora are among the players known to be admired by Pulis and either would be a decent signing.

The Potters will need to add some flair and pace to their midfield too as, while Lawrence can be relied on for plenty of assists, they will need another proven provider to serve a new-look front two.

Finding and then attracting players will prove an extremely difficult task for the Potters but Pulis and Coates have expressed their confidence that the club's illustrious history, financial clout, large fanbase and handy location - footballers' paradise Alderley Edge is a short drive away - will prove crucial.

However, despite all these positives, a claim that will undoubtedly be levelled at Stoke - more than likely by readers of this column - is that their style will not suit the Premier League.

However, there are a few myths that need to be put to bed. First of all, City are in no way a defensive side and actually finished the season as the league's second highest scorers. Secondly, while it cannot be argued that their football is more direct than some, it does not take a genius to realise a midfield boasting Lawrence, Pearson, Rory Delap and Glenn Whelan - a player sought after by half of the Championship in January - can play a bit.

The defence admittedly can be agricultural at times and this will need to be addressed as keeping the ball in the Premier League is crucial. However, what Pulis asks of his side is that they get the ball to their most skillful players as quickly as possible.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea but it has obviously paid dividends this season and it is no coincidence that Stoke's two wingers - Lawrence and Richard Cresswell - have scored 27 goals between them.

Also, while it is claimed City's set-plays will not be as effective next season, a quick look at the vast amount of goals Aston Villa have scored from dead-ball situations this term will give them hope. And no matter how good a defence they come up against, the sight of the monstrous Shawcross, Leon Cort and Mama Sidibe in the box will scare any side.

Stoke will need to work on keeping the ball for longer periods and being able to mix up their play more often. But their counter-attacking style does have its good points and they deserve the chance to test it before being roundly criticised.

So give the Potters a chance Premier League because Stoke City are coming.

[knowles]

Great piece Homzy.

Have you seen the odds for next season? I think we might have a chance to push Utd all the way...

[Homzy]

I fancy us for the top four but I presume the Baggies will be favourites for the title. I imagine they're odds-on aren't they?!

[Pugsley]

Facts are that these pundits are right - we ARE going to struggle iof we don't adapt our game a bit and improve our midfield play. It's a massive task for Stoke to stay up. Pulis and Coates will have their work cut out to attract the necessary players. WE ALL KNOW THIS IS TRUE.

What I object to is the negativity hours after promotion was gained. Why can't people just let us celebrate and wallow in the success of promotion after 23 years just for a few days at least ffs.

It's as though they resent another team coming in and sticking our noses in the trough and having our fair share.

Fuck 'em. Stoke are in the big time and no matter how we perform we should enjoy it. It's a massive opportunity for Stoke to build the club into something worthwhile.

[mikeyb99]

I don't think the BBC article is too bad, we will need to strengthen significantly in order to stay up.

If Pulis gets right into gear this summer (no excuses acceptable this time) and we sign players, there is no reason why we can't stay up. Our football under Pulis has, by and large, been relational to the quality of player on the park. Although Pulis will never, ever, be able to improve the technical or footballing ability of any player, we do usually utilise gifted players.

Here's hoping.