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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 15:30:46 GMT
I like him but I still don't think he offers enough for an attacking midfielder. He does what Fonzy did in an attacking sense with the defensive side and not half as well as Fonzy did it last year. Shouldn't that be Imbula's job? I actually think Afellay's defensive side is his most improved part of his game this season. He puts in a shift now and isn't afraid to tackle. I know he was your hero..... but Steven has gone. Let it go. His workrate is excellent. I have let it go but in terms of the side I think it's a waste of a player.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 21, 2016 15:32:00 GMT
I actually think Afellay's defensive side is his most improved part of his game this season. He puts in a shift now and isn't afraid to tackle. I know he was your hero..... but Steven has gone. Let it go. His workrate is excellent. I have let it go but in terms of the side I think it's a waste of a player. Afellay is a waste of a player? So you want him dropped?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 15:35:02 GMT
Not dismissed, the other two are just better. That's life. Lol. Wijnaldum has been bang average for Newcastle for at least 3 months now. Great start that slowly faded out. We need someone like him for us though, someone to get past the striker and be more of a threat. With the second central midfielder doing what Aff does.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 15:36:11 GMT
His workrate is excellent. I have let it go but in terms of the side I think it's a waste of a player. Afellay is a waste of a player? So you want him dropped? I wouldn't be adverse to it especially at home. He's not that much of an attacking threat and we struggle to break sides down and what he does should be done by the second central midfielder. If Bojan was close to form he wouldn't get in the side.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 21, 2016 15:41:55 GMT
Afellay is a waste of a player? So you want him dropped? I wouldn't be adverse to it especially at home. He's not that much of an attacking threat and we struggle to break sides down and what he does should be done by the second central midfielder. If Bojan was close to form he wouldn't get in the side. Didn't he play the pass to Bardsley?
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Post by Kjones9 on Mar 21, 2016 15:45:36 GMT
He called it from day one.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 15:48:56 GMT
I wouldn't be adverse to it especially at home. He's not that much of an attacking threat and we struggle to break sides down and what he does should be done by the second central midfielder. If Bojan was close to form he wouldn't get in the side. Didn't he play the pass to Bardsley? It's a pass any midfielder should be playing. But away I think he makes sense as the results have shown, he works. At home we need to try something else because he hasn't got the nous or doesn't break past the striker or support them like we need the third midfielder to do.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 21, 2016 16:21:59 GMT
Didn't he play the pass to Bardsley? It's a pass any midfielder should be playing. But away I think he makes sense as the results have shown, he works. At home we need to try something else because he hasn't got the nous or doesn't break past the striker or support them like we need the third midfielder to do. 13 points from the last 6 games (2nd in the 6 game form table) suggests that, overall, we getting more things right than we are wrong. I'll accept that at present we often look more comfortable away than we do at home but when I am at the home games I'm not sure it is Afellay who is the weak link attack wise. To me the problem may (and I realise that this may be controversial) be that we are playing two inverted wide players in Arnie and Shaq who both cut in and both have a habit of trying to beat their man not once, but twice. This can have the effect of making us look one paced against teams who come to defend. I think it might be worth starting with only one inverted wide player against Swansea.
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Post by pottersrule on Mar 21, 2016 16:28:09 GMT
It's a pass any midfielder should be playing. But away I think he makes sense as the results have shown, he works. At home we need to try something else because he hasn't got the nous or doesn't break past the striker or support them like we need the third midfielder to do. 13 points from the last 6 games (2nd in the 6 game form table) suggests that, overall, we getting more things right than we are wrong. I'll accept that at present we often look more comfortable away than we do at home but when I am at the home games I'm not sure it is Afellay who is the weak link attack wise. To me the problem may (and I realise that this may be controversial) be that we are playing two inverted wide players in Arnie and Shaq who both cut in and both have a habit of trying to beat their man not once, but twice. This can have the effect of making us look one paced against teams who come to defend. I think it might be worth starting with only one inverted wide player against Swansea. Arnie and Walters?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 21, 2016 16:34:01 GMT
13 points from the last 6 games (2nd in the 6 game form table) suggests that, overall, we getting more things right than we are wrong. I'll accept that at present we often look more comfortable away than we do at home but when I am at the home games I'm not sure it is Afellay who is the weak link attack wise. To me the problem may (and I realise that this may be controversial) be that we are playing two inverted wide players in Arnie and Shaq who both cut in and both have a habit of trying to beat their man not once, but twice. This can have the effect of making us look one paced against teams who come to defend. I think it might be worth starting with only one inverted wide player against Swansea. Arnie and Walters? There are several options - Shaq, for example is apparently comfortable as a conventional winger on the left so you could play him there and play Arnie in the middle with one of Walters, Diouf or Joselu on the right. Anything to mix things up a bit. You could even encourage Shaq and Arnie to swap sides during the game which would give you two conventional wingers and probably add some pace to attacks.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 18:19:06 GMT
It's a pass any midfielder should be playing. But away I think he makes sense as the results have shown, he works. At home we need to try something else because he hasn't got the nous or doesn't break past the striker or support them like we need the third midfielder to do. 13 points from the last 6 games (2nd in the 6 game form table) suggests that, overall, we getting more things right than we are wrong. I'll accept that at present we often look more comfortable away than we do at home but when I am at the home games I'm not sure it is Afellay who is the weak link attack wise. To me the problem may (and I realise that this may be controversial) be that we are playing two inverted wide players in Arnie and Shaq who both cut in and both have a habit of trying to beat their man not once, but twice. This can have the effect of making us look one paced against teams who come to defend. I think it might be worth starting with only one inverted wide player against Swansea. I definitely think that's part of the problem at home. But I do think Afellay is part of the problem too. His movement (like all of them) is poor, he generally passes too safe and slowly and he's not got a real cutting edge. I'd try 442 at home vs Swansea with Afellay on the right. See how that goes. Something different at home needs to be tried.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 21, 2016 18:26:21 GMT
Afellay is brilliant. The end.
If the season was judged from the Sheffield Wednesday cup game, he's been our standout performer and would be our player of the season, probably by some distance.
Talk of him being a "problem" is an absolute nonsense.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 18:32:25 GMT
Afellay is brilliant. The end. If the season was judged from the Sheffield Wednesday cup game, he's been our standout performer and would be our player of the season, probably by some distance. Talk of him being a "problem" is an absolute nonsense. I think he's done well but 'brilliant' and 'great'? Nah. He does what the second midfielder in the side should be doing and doesn't offer that great a threat going forward. He's neat and tidy and does that well but we need more from the player that plays there especially in home games.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 21, 2016 18:51:43 GMT
Afellay is brilliant. The end. If the season was judged from the Sheffield Wednesday cup game, he's been our standout performer and would be our player of the season, probably by some distance. Talk of him being a "problem" is an absolute nonsense. I think he's done well but 'brilliant' and 'great'? Nah. He does what the second midfielder in the side should be doing and doesn't offer that great a threat going forward. He's neat and tidy and does that well but we need more from the player that plays there especially in home games. I can recall two poor performances from him since he established himself as a regular in the team. He's been brilliant in the role given to him and I think you're gripes are based on judging him against what a fit and firing Bojan brings to the team. Truth is, they are totally different roles regardless of form or fitness.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 18:54:49 GMT
I think he's done well but 'brilliant' and 'great'? Nah. He does what the second midfielder in the side should be doing and doesn't offer that great a threat going forward. He's neat and tidy and does that well but we need more from the player that plays there especially in home games. I can recall two poor performances from him since he established himself as a regular in the team. He's been brilliant in the role given to him and I think you're gripes are based on judging him against what a fit and firing Bojan brings to the team. Truth is, they are totally different roles regardless of form or fitness. He hasn't been poor but he hasn't been great either. Yeah and why not? That's what we need especially at home. Imbula should do what Afellay does and we should have a more attacking player there for the home games. My gripe is with the home game tactics more than Afellay. Like I've said, I like how he plays, I just think we need more from that third midfielder.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Mar 21, 2016 19:01:04 GMT
Affelay has been oustanding. Every bit as effective as Nzonzi ever was.
He's been overshadowed somewhat by the imperious Imbula but that shouldn't detract from Ibra's performances.
Another astute signing by the manager.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 19:03:36 GMT
Affelay has been oustanding. Every bit as effective as Nzonzi ever was. He's been overshadowed somewhat by the imperious Imbula but that shouldn't detract from Ibra's performances. Another astute signing by the manager. N'zonzi did more defensively as well as what Afellay does going forward. Imbula should do that. The player playing as the attacker needs more assists and goals and general attacking play.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 21, 2016 19:05:17 GMT
I can recall two poor performances from him since he established himself as a regular in the team. He's been brilliant in the role given to him and I think you're gripes are based on judging him against what a fit and firing Bojan brings to the team. Truth is, they are totally different roles regardless of form or fitness. He hasn't been poor but he hasn't been great either. Yeah and why not? That's what we need especially at home. Imbula should do what Afellay does and we should have a more attacking player there for the home games. My gripe is with the home game tactics more than Afellay. Like I've said, I like how he plays, I just think we need more from that third midfielder. Well we hit great form at the back end of last season, without the services of Bojan and with a midfield 3 very similar to that of the current midfield. For me, Afellay is a huge improvement on Charlie Adam which is effectively the role he's been asked to perform if you compare the current side and formation to that which we've seen previously. The difference between now and then is that we don't have the winger with searing pace who can stretch the game, though Moses missed a fair chunk of the latter part of last season but perhaps more importantly, we don't have a consistent player, delivering the goods from the centre forward position. I'm yet to be convinced by Shaqiri, Ryan's fitness is an obvious problem (as are Muniesa's) but put another winger, preferably a flying one, a centre half and centre forward capable of providing consistent performances and goals and you're looking at a totally different side.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Mar 21, 2016 19:06:00 GMT
Affelay has been oustanding. Every bit as effective as Nzonzi ever was. He's been overshadowed somewhat by the imperious Imbula but that shouldn't detract from Ibra's performances. Another astute signing by the manager. N'zonzi did more defensively as well as what Afellay does going forward. Imbula should do that. The player playing as the attacker needs more assists and goals and general attacking play. He could definitely chip in with more goals and assists. If Bojan was at his peak, on a regular basis, you'd imagine the position would be his. He hasn't been at the races though and Affelay has taken the opportunity with both hands. He's an integral part of the set up as things stand. His touch, technique, vision and distribution are all top drawer.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 19:13:35 GMT
He hasn't been poor but he hasn't been great either. Yeah and why not? That's what we need especially at home. Imbula should do what Afellay does and we should have a more attacking player there for the home games. My gripe is with the home game tactics more than Afellay. Like I've said, I like how he plays, I just think we need more from that third midfielder. Well we hit great form at the back end of last season, without the services of Bojan and with a midfield 3 very similar to that of the current midfield. For me, Afellay is a huge improvement on Charlie Adam which is effectively the role he's been asked to perform if you compare the current side and formation to that which we've seen previously. The difference between now and then is that we don't have the winger with searing pace who can stretch the game, though Moses missed a fair chunk of the latter part of last season but perhaps more importantly, we don't have a consistent player, delivering the goods from the centre forward position. I'm yet to be convinced by Shaqiri, Ryan's fitness is an obvious problem (as are Muniesa's) but put another winger, preferably a flying one, a centre half and centre forward capable of providing consistent performances and goals and you're looking at a totally different side. Agree with most of that Dave. But I still expect more from him or whoever plays there. I think Shaq has been our best attacker since January though!
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Post by kustokie on Mar 21, 2016 19:14:01 GMT
Affelay has been oustanding. Every bit as effective as Nzonzi ever was. He's been overshadowed somewhat by the imperious Imbula but that shouldn't detract from Ibra's performances. Another astute signing by the manager. N'zonzi did more defensively as well as what Afellay does going forward. Imbula should do that. The player playing as the attacker needs more assists and goals and general attacking play. How many assists and goals did N'Zonzi contribute during his spell at Stoke? I can't honestly remember. I do remember bringing this up before and someone (Bayern)saying there's more to being a MFer than goals and assists. To my way of thinking they are 85% of he job. Edited his due to premature Enter-Pressing
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 19:14:35 GMT
N'zonzi did more defensively as well as what Afellay does going forward. Imbula should do that. The player playing as the attacker needs more assists and goals and general attacking play. He could definitely chip in with more goals and assists. If Bojan was at his peak, on a regular basis, you'd imagine the position would be his. He hasn't been at the races though and Affelay has taken the opportunity with both hands. He's an integral part of the set up as things stand. His touch, technique, vision and distribution are all top drawer. At home though that's an integral part of a side that struggles to break sides down.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 21, 2016 19:16:23 GMT
N'zonzi did more defensively as well as what Afellay does going forward. Imbula should do that. The player playing as the attacker needs more assists and goals and general attacking play. How many assists and goals did N'Zonzi contribute during his spell at Stoke? I can't honestly remember. I do remember bringing this up before and someone (Bayern)saying there's more to goals and assists. He'd get about Afellay has got. And there is but if you're an attacking midfielder then it's something to be judged on. N'zonzi wasn't an attacking midfielder. That's my whole point! He's doing a job that our second midfielder should be doing.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 21, 2016 19:24:03 GMT
N'zonzi did more defensively as well as what Afellay does going forward. Imbula should do that. The player playing as the attacker needs more assists and goals and general attacking play. How many assists and goals did N'Zonzi contribute during his spell at Stoke? I can't honestly remember. I do remember bringing this up before and someone (Bayern)saying there's more to being a MFer than goals and assists. To my way of thinking they are 85% of he job. Edited his due to premature Enter-Pressing They aren't though. How many assists has Imbula got? Our midfield has three distinct roles. Contain (Whelan's job) Carry (Imbula's job) and create (Afellay/Bojan's job).
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Post by kustokie on Mar 21, 2016 19:29:51 GMT
How many assists and goals did N'Zonzi contribute during his spell at Stoke? I can't honestly remember. I do remember bringing this up before and someone (Bayern)saying there's more to goals and assists. He'd get about Afellay has got. And there is but if you're an attacking midfielder then it's something to be judged on. N'zonzi wasn't an attacking midfielder. That's my whole point! He's doing a job that our second midfielder should be doing. I think what you are saying could be correct and an in-form Bojan is preferred in the #10 position. I am to quite sure what you mean about the second MFer. In a 4-2-3-1 set up here's a triangle of Affelay (or Bojan)-Whelan-Ibmula and two wide players. Affelay "buzzes around a lot" as the commentators said and is pleasing to the eye. However, I don't believe he has provided many assists. His through ball to Bardsley on Saturday was excellent - we need more of that.
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Post by kustokie on Mar 21, 2016 19:30:49 GMT
How many assists and goals did N'Zonzi contribute during his spell at Stoke? I can't honestly remember. I do remember bringing this up before and someone (Bayern)saying there's more to being a MFer than goals and assists. To my way of thinking they are 85% of he job. Edited his due to premature Enter-Pressing They aren't though. How many assists has Imbula got? Our midfield has three distinct roles. Contain (Whelan's job) Carry (Imbula's job) and create (Afellay/Bojan's job). Our messages crossed - we are in violent agreement!
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Post by WhyDelilah on Mar 21, 2016 19:31:29 GMT
How many assists and goals did N'Zonzi contribute during his spell at Stoke? I can't honestly remember. I do remember bringing this up before and someone (Bayern)saying there's more to being a MFer than goals and assists. To my way of thinking they are 85% of he job. Edited his due to premature Enter-Pressing They aren't though. How many assists has Imbula got? Our midfield has three distinct roles. Contain (Whelan's job) Carry (Imbula's job) and create (Afellay/Bojan's job). The 3 "C" set up has served us well for years. Whelan (Cage), Delap (Chuck) and Deano (Chase) - the good old days.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Mar 21, 2016 19:32:57 GMT
They aren't though. How many assists has Imbula got? Our midfield has three distinct roles. Contain (Whelan's job) Carry (Imbula's job) and create (Afellay/Bojan's job). Our messages crossed - we are in violent agreement! I think Afellay's got a great through ball on him. His assist for Arnie the other week was cracking, he created a great chance for Shaq at Bournemouth and a couple against Norwich too. I agree that the team as a whole isn't creating enough chances though, certainly at home.
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Post by lordb on Mar 21, 2016 22:32:34 GMT
Afellay just needs to add some goals.
As do Stoke generally.
They have the ability.
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